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#70960 - 09/17/12 04:04 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: mike616joaquin]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
I may consider drug use as "stupidity" on a personal level. I do not use such substances. Conversely, I find the "war on drugs" to be a futile exercise (as several posters have mentioned). It is an infringement of the civil liberties of even non-users. I say this irregardless of possible government motive.

Indulgence or stupidity? It could be either.. Legalize it. Let people bear responsibility directly. If it is a mere indulgence to some, great. If not, may we get the government out of the business altogether. I believe a lot of talented people go down this path. As a political compromise, I might support some degree of rehabilitation programs. Ultimately, I'll leave to each their own.
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#70968 - 09/17/12 08:47 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Le Deluge]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
member


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
The difference in using versus abusing drugs is usually the difference maker in rather ones habit can be deemed stupid. Yes it is stupid to go check to check getting high to no avail. But you know if someone wants to take their hard earned money and catch a good feeling, then who the hell is anyone to say they are wrong? The answer is that yes you reserve the right to speak your peace against someones drug habits if their habit costs you peace, money or endangers your safety or freedom. This could be someone riding in your car with a bag of weed or your roommate sniffing coke in yalls home. Not to mention people that use drugs may not be as responsible with their money and are not good to get in the money wheel with. Not only can their habit cost them financially, it tends to cost them psychologically and leads to poor decision making. I have seen people transform on drugs, truthfully speaking some for the better and others for the worse. Drugs are always a risk, regardless of the amount or type, so to each at his own peril.

Edited by LeftHandonFeet (09/17/12 08:47 PM)
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#70973 - 09/18/12 03:37 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Le Deluge]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3370
Drug use only becomes stupidity when trying new ones which are way beyond a persons level of tolerance and ability to cope with the side-effects. Most addicts are a result of trying too fast new "harder" drugs which gave them such an experience they want more to re-achieve the same feeling or state of being.

When it comes down to it, there's a certain responsability as a user in which your own borders have to be found and a certain backbone has to be shown to moderate. Drugs are like a train, if all warnings are ignored and it's going to fast you'll surely get off tracks before reaching the next station.
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#71760 - 10/11/12 01:52 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
Daemon of Lust Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 14
Loc: California
I've been smoking for about three years now, but its not a compulsion. I smoke about twice a month (pot) with a few close friends. We sit down, watch a movie or two, and eat some snacks. I think that indulgences such as that have no real negative effect, atleast from what i can tell. its fine as long as you dont rely on it.

Edited by Daemon of Lust (10/11/12 01:54 AM)
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#72482 - 11/03/12 07:36 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
Tropix Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/23/10
Posts: 16
Loc: Minneapolis
Drugs are medicine, be it for healing, learning, recreation, or relief from despair. They need to be managed not only by the users but also society. We don't need crackhead bath salts face eater roaming the streets. Drug use needs knowledge behind it. Stupidity comes when that knowledge is absent. As with guns, to hell with personal responsibility if drugs are put in the hands of a reckless citizen. As with religion, to hell with personal choice if drug use preys on individuals before they're smart enough to understand the thing.
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#72511 - 11/04/12 10:33 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Tropix]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
You just took away the freedom of personal choice on three things at once in your post.

"Drugs are medicine, be it for healing, learning, recreation, or relief from despair. They need to be managed not only by the users but also society. We don't need crackhead bath salts face eater roaming the streets."

Define drug. Aspirin, caffeine, alcohol, etc are just as much a drug as something like crack. The only difference is that society says some are okay to use or even be addicted to and some are not.

By the way, the face eating man was not on bath salts, the only thing that showed up in his system was marijuana.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5...-in-his-system/

"As with guns, to hell with personal responsibility if drugs are put in the hands of a reckless citizen."

It's doubtful even the 'trained' legally carrying citizen can use a gun for protection. I addressed my own feelings on that topic here:

http://www.the600club.com/topic69718-2.html

"As with religion, to hell with personal choice if drug use preys on individuals before they're smart enough to understand the thing. "

What does this mean? All Religions prey upon people in some form.
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#72514 - 11/04/12 11:56 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: FemaleSatan]
ÜbermenschMunchi Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 45
Loc: California
This is a general reply. I saw something about bath salts and wanted to touch on this.

The drug war is largely if not totally responsible for the existence of dangerous substances such as MDPV (bath salts). This is a great example of how markets adapt. Because weed, LSD, and ecstasy are illegal, there is an incentive for any chemical savvy businessman to create new drugs and market them as "legal alternative". If you go to your local headshop and check out the "legal" ecstasy, it is chock-full of shit. These alternatives often end up being more dangerous than illegal substances.

K2, a synthetic emulation of marijuana, has actually killed people. Last time I checked, marijuana had not killed anyone. And MDPV has pharmacodynamics that mimic a lethal combination of cocaine and methamphetamine, two drugs dangerous enough on their own. The war on drugs has certainly pushed society in the wrong direction.


Edited by ÜbermenschMunchi (11/04/12 12:01 PM)
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#72531 - 11/04/12 02:04 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ÜbermenschMunchi]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
The drug war is also responsible for the high cost of drugs and all the side-crime that results from people trying to raise money for those expensive drugs, traffic those drugs, conceal those drugs, or create those drugs.

Startlingly, countries with less-strict drug policies have lower rates of drug use and drug related crime. Why? Because junkies aren't out there trying to hook everyone they know on drugs so that they can sell to them and subsidize their own habit. They aren't robbing their grandmas for drug money. Etc.

I don't buy the face eater was only on pot. Considering the time it took for him to be apprehended, die, and be tested, it's entirely possible that this shit could have been out of his system. Also, bath salts are a relatively new drug and most drug testing doesn't include a way to test for certain types of bath salts. Even the tests that are supposedly able to test for them are still being tweaked for effectiveness. So considering that pot has been around at least as long as humans have and there have never been other cases of this type of behavior on pot, I don't buy it. Not to mention: new designer drugs are on the market every day. There's no telling what he ingested and there's no telling if it could be tested for. Drug tests aren't magical. They are bits of paper soaked in a chemical.

Back to legalization: I don't do drugs and I have little to no respect for people who do, for various reasons. However, if legalizing drugs would allow the crackheads and meth heads and other assorted dumbasses to hurry up and OD already, then I'm all for it. Maybe they can wall-off a neighborhood and let all the junkies have it. I fuckin' HATE tweakers. They have a certain mentality that has nothing to do with drugs and often the drug use is just one more symptom of the fact that they are the weakest, most useless of our species. Legalization may help them to darwin their way out of the gene pool.

And finally, on to the OP: My answer is "stupidity". Unless you're toking up because you've got cancer or some shit, I think you're just being a retard. Illegal drugs can cost you your job, your possessions, your family and your freedom. If they outlawed cigarettes today I'd be a nonsmoker tomorrow because it's not worth losing everything I have and love just to smoke.

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#72547 - 11/04/12 09:10 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
XiaoGui17 Offline
veteran member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1317
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
Startlingly, countries with less-strict drug policies have lower rates of drug use and drug related crime. Why? Because junkies aren't out there trying to hook everyone they know on drugs so that they can sell to them and subsidize their own habit. They aren't robbing their grandmas for drug money. Etc.

Hear, hear!

The manufacture of drugs, especially, can cause a great deal of collateral damage. The manufacture of many drugs in garage labs can create gaseous byproducts that harm anyone in the area or using the same ventilation system.

Dealers shooting it out with one another (you invaded my territory! you cut my dope! perforate him!) can hit a lot of bystanders.

A close friend of mine once woke up to see a junkie holding a knife over him because some guy he offended verbally promised the junkie drugs if he killed him.

If drugs were manufactured and sold in controlled environments, and cheaper because there was less risk, these kinds of things would be far less likely.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
I don't buy the face eater was only on pot.

Drug tests can indeed be unreliable regarding new substances, but it's possible that the face eater had some underlying psychological condition that a normally harmless drug like pot could have exacerbated. Not that pot itself causes face-eating, but pot and a mental condition can be a dangerous combo.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
...often the drug use is just one more symptom...

Exactly. To paraphrase another common expression, drugs don't harm people, people harm themselves with drugs. Heroin doesn't jump up and inject itself into a person's veins.
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#72549 - 11/04/12 09:25 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
The manufacture of drugs, especially, can cause a great deal of collateral damage. The manufacture of many drugs in garage labs can create gaseous byproducts that harm anyone in the area or using the same ventilation system.


Yes, I forgot to even mention this part. I'm not sure about the rest of the country but here, where meth labs are a serious problem, a real estate agent must disclose whether or not a residence has been used as a meth lab in the previous X number of years. The chemicals get into the walls of the house and can cause sickness for years afterwards.

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#72585 - 11/05/12 11:01 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 689
Loc: UK
I think drugs classed as "recreational" (by the user, not by legislature that is) are as safe or as potentially dangerous as alcohol. I have a friend in his 50's who likes a smoke of marijuana at weekends because he enjoys the effect. I personally hated the smell, the smoke and the effect the couple of times I bothered to try it. He has a well-paid job, never has a day off sick from one year to the next and is well-groomed with a clean home and a sharp mind.

However . . . when I lived in a more Bohemian are, there were regular weed smokers in my social circle and - their choice, I know - I detested the way it made them stupid and slow; the way it was treated like a ritual with everyone smiling and nodding and trying to talk like American hippies; the way such a big DEAL was made of it. Ugh. Call me hypocritical but I'd rather have a decent glass of Merlot any day.

Now . . . "harder" drugs. I'll admit to experimenting 3 times with LSD in the '70's. It was the real thing, not a lump of sugar with a few drops of something that makes colours look brighter - the azure blue, sellotape wrapped proper hallucinatory stuff. I saw things I'll never forget and could never adequately describe but the last time I did it was at a party - an unwise choice of venue resulting in a bad trip. I'd do it again in heartbeat, though with proper medical supervision; the experience was so fascinating.

As for heroin and crack, the UK has a problem with these, too and an extensive methadone programme. They're dirty drugs that cause nothing but problems and drag people into the gutter. Sherlock Holmes may have been a great detective in spite of his habit but he was a fictional character, after all.
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#72772 - 11/10/12 07:07 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: felixgarnet]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
In the general vernacular, all drugs that are not of pharmaceutical origins are considered "recreational".

Or perhaps this is a USA vs UK difference in terminology?

Pretty much everything about my life has been learned either through direct experience of observation of those around me. I have a scientist's heart, I guess. Here's what I've learned about "drugs": Some people can function on pot and some cannot. Of those who cannot, some are still successful in spite of that because they choose to Make It A Treat, instead of waking up and going to bed with a J every day. Same goes for alcohol, with the added bonus that it's legal.

Crack, Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, X, blahblahblahblah....those are an entirely different beast. I could mangle my arm in an auger and still count on one hand the number of people I have seen get out from underneath that kind of monkey without lifelong side-effects.

No recreation is worth losing my teeth, getting "the twitch", having an organ transplant, getting AIDS or Hep, or sucking dick to get my next fix.

I know two people who blew their brains out, as a solution to the "how to quit doing drugs" problem.

I know exactly ONE person who stopped doing crank and got their shit together. ONE. My cop knows zero people.

So are drugs (or the people who do them) stupid? Yeah, I think they are. Both. Experience and observation has taught me that the odds of a person "being in control" and "able to quit any time" are slim to none. To me, it shows poor judgement to think - as an individual - that you and you alone are going to beat the odds and party for a year or two and then settle down and get your shit together.

And: I don't count it as "beating crank" (or whatever) if it takes you so long to do it that you're left with one tooth and a nervous tic, or an incurable disease.

I also consider ANY form of drug use that will lead to prison to be stupid. But then again, I'd rather be shot in the eye than go to prison. I heart freedom.

Yep, I drink. But I wouldn't do it if they said one day that they'd put me in the clink for it. I'd much rather have my freedom than make some kind of political statement.

And what of the escapism? Like there are no legal ways of "escaping reality" available? It simply doesn't make rational sense to me to take the chance of any of the repercussions listed above.

There are plenty of people out there who want to do drugs, and it's easy-motherfuckin'-peasy to start a ballot initiative to legalize drugs. Many states have done it and two have legalized pot across the board. If all those people who *want* to do drugs would get off their collective asses and begin the process of getting drugs legalized, I'm sure they'd be a force to be reckoned with.

Unfortunately, though, drug-arrests result in felony convictions, which mean no right to vote. This is the horse. This is the cart. It's not difficult math.

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#72795 - 11/11/12 09:29 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
"Yes, I forgot to even mention this part. I'm not sure about the rest of the country but here, where meth labs are a serious problem, a real estate agent must disclose whether or not a residence has been used as a meth lab in the previous X number of years. The chemicals get into the walls of the house and can cause sickness for years afterwards."

That's an issue where I live. My husband has a family member that decided to start making meth. In a condo.... with a neighbor with small children.... a few blocks from a school.

The man was brilliant, funny, charismatic, handsome and just a damn cool guy. He was hands down a favorite of mine. As he started producing it, his behavior became erratic, his IQ dropped at least 30 points, and he was just a violent dickhead toward the end. It was horrifying to watch the level of personality change and the change in appearance.

When he was busted and sent to prison, the only thing he had to say to his mother (who owned the condo) was 'I'm sorry.' It cost about $20,000 to clean up the condo and get it approved by the EPA to be livable. His neighbor with children may sue him because her son has developed asthma.

What this whole incident has cost my husband's family is more. It's broken a proud Southern family. All of this shit because this d00d wanted to make an easy buck.
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#72798 - 11/11/12 12:02 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
Stick Offline
member


Registered: 06/08/12
Posts: 157
Loc: Benelux
Basically I have the following rule for myself, it sounds daft but it works for me.

"Everything that is feeling good and still feels good the next day, is good"

Unfortunately many Drugs don't follow this criteria.
Some do when used in moderation.

The moment I feel something is taking to much from me, like being in credit, and have to pay back the next few days.
I am not interested.

The moment something takes over addiction wise mentally or physically, I am out immediately.

S.

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#72808 - 11/11/12 03:16 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Stick]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
I think that's an excellent policy, Stick. I live by similar criteria, actually.

I can't stand pot and I'll never try any other type of illegal drug, but I do enjoy my bourbon and the occasional rum.

If I ever get the feeling I'm craving it, though, it's over. I had surgery on my throat once and they gave me liquid morphine (or maybe Demerol, it's all the same to me) anyway, I took one dose and poured the rest down the toilet. It made me euphoric like I have never experienced before and I wasn't EVEN gonna play that game. The same goes for the booze. It will never get to the point where I'm being irresponsible in other parts of my life.

And, shitty as it may be from time to time, I actually enjoy reality so anything that takes that away from me for an extended period or impairs my ability to nerd around is off my list of things to do.

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