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#72860 - 11/13/12 02:14 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
scarecro Offline
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Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Kentucky
i agree totally with Morgan.
i personaly have delt with an addiction to alcohol, didn't care about anything but being intoxicated. after a long battle i got everything under control.

if it makes you happy, do as you wish

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#72865 - 11/13/12 08:56 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1264
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
In the general vernacular, all drugs that are not of pharmaceutical origins are considered "recreational".

I use the term recreational to describe drugs in same way it's used in the general sense. I call drugs "recreational" if they are taken for the sake of enjoyment, be it a high, trip, euphoria, or whatever. On the other hand, a drug is purposeful if used as a means instead of an ends (treating an illness, performance enhancement, sleep aid, etc.)

Some drugs can be both. If someone takes Benadryl to quell allergies, that's purposeful. If someone takes Benadryl to hallucinate ("getting drylled"), that's recreational. It can be a fuzzy area, since depressed people "self-medicate," or people may be disingenuous about the "medicinal" benefits and/or intentions behind taking certain drugs. (It totally expands me to higher levels of consciousness, man!)

I'm all for effective purposeful use. Recreational use seems a bit wasteful. The cost (hangovers, addiction, time lost, legal ramifications, risk-taking behavior on the drug) doesn't seem worth a little fun, especially considering there are less costly ways to have fun.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
And, shitty as it may be from time to time, I actually enjoy reality so anything that takes that away from me for an extended period or impairs my ability to nerd around is off my list of things to do.

That's basically where I stand. I'm a fan of performance-enhancing drugs. Various stimulants (like caffeine), taurine, NAC, creatine, mentat (they've put sapho juice in pill form!), etc., help my mind function on command. I like having self-control, so I'm averse to impairment and savor enhancement.
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#72867 - 11/13/12 10:37 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
ceruleansteel Offline
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Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
I'm no fan of any stimulant. It all puts me to sleep.

As a matter of fact, almost all of those things work "wrong" on me.

Benadryl puts me out for about 14 hours. Whatever the allergy pill is that starts with a C makes me a psycho. I took a sleeping pill once and an hour later the cops were fishing me out from under my kitchen table, assuring me the monsters were gone. Pain pills don't work on me. Period. That liquid demerolormorphine,whatever it was, may have worked but I wasn't about to take a second dose of it.

The only cold pill I could take, Sudafed Cold and Sinus, now requires a prescription, thanks to the meth labs.

So fuck it. I'll treat my ailments with other methods and keep my bourbon around for fun.

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#72927 - 11/14/12 10:57 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
Estiban Offline
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Registered: 02/23/12
Posts: 5
Loc: Gran Prairie Texas
I smoke pot from time to time, drink here an there. But do nothing habitually other than practice what I call my faith.
If it feels good do it but once it is doing you you have lost track.
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#107921 - 08/06/16 07:27 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
Short and sweet:

I don't advocate doing drugs. I do advocate having done them.

In regards to stupidity / Darwinism / or snubbing your nose at addicts: While no matter what, you are responsible for your own actions, I know for a fact that the only difference between me and a heroin addict is that I've never tried it.

I can only judge people who've never tried it but are considering it.

I know that "quitting smoking is easy because I've done it over a hundred times"

I know that after a certain number of times hallucinogens start repeating themselves.

I know that alcohol IS the most deleterious substance known to man. Paradoxically enough, it may also be the key-stone of civilization.

I can't tell if it's me, or that weed nowadays is different than it was when I was a kid, or both, but whatever the case may be I've lost all appetite for it.

At the end of the day, there really is no "high" sweeter than health - eventually children stop preferring chocolate cake to a home cooked-meal sooner or later.
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#107930 - 08/07/16 10:53 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: antikarmatomic]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1264
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
...I know for a fact that the only difference between me and a heroin addict is that I've never tried it.

If you buy into the DARE scare claim that you're addicted after a single use. But it's a myth. Many, many people use opiates without getting addicted. Many of the painkillers people use routinely after surgery or broken legs are every bit as physically addictive as heroin--sometimes even more so--but not everyone who breaks an arm ends up hooked on painkillers. I've known people who walked away from heroin and meth after one or two uses.

Physical addiction only occurs after heavy, continuous, prolonged use. That's true of anything--heroin, meth, etc. It takes the brain a while to get used to and come to expect a certain substance.

And yeah, I'm willing to judge someone who's so averse to dealing with their issues that they're making a habit of routinely getting blitzed in an effort to ignore them. They always cite some hardship they're coping with, but it's almost always blown out of proportion. I've known people who have dealt with worse. Heck, usually I've dealt with worse than what they're whining about.
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#107933 - 08/07/16 02:37 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
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And yet, sure enough, there are addicts in the world.

I rely neither on scientific studies nor the anecdotes of others to inform me of what I would very likely enjoy way-the-fuck too much for my own good. If it takes awaiting the latest peer-reviewed study or statistical analysis to inform you of your own nature then I can assure you that we operate on wholly different planets of self-cognizance, and that it occurs to me that I just might be conversing with an automaton - which seems to be something of a reoccurring theme lately.
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#107939 - 08/07/16 08:58 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1427
Loc: Ca
 Quote:
But it's a myth. Many, many people use opiates without getting addicted.


Absolutely. But severity depends on the method of use and one's will power.

With opiates, Heroin is much harder to quit if you slam it as opposed to smoking it. The withdrawal is more intense as well. Intravenous use will hook you on the first use. Smoking will take multiple uses for it to become physical.

From personal experience you can smoke heroin all day, everyday for 7 months and walk away with only two weeks of lethargic depression to get through. With slamming it's the worst 4 day flu you've ever had + two weeks.

Rant: I have no respect for these whinny little "I just can't quit" bitches, or even worse the sanctimonious NA variety. The ones that need the psychodrama of "higher powers"... As they all slurp down coffee and smoke cigarettes in a codependent self deception.

Not really adding much here, but it is a good platform to bash these week willed pussies that need to replace doing drugs with going to meetings (to talk about how out of control they were and replace one addiction with another) while reading some bullshit bias confirming self help tripe..

The real opiate is god.

#enemyofbillw
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#107947 - 08/08/16 12:43 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: CanisMachina42]
JamesSTL Offline
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Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 312
Loc: St. Louis
EXPLICIT WARNING: I didn't read this whole thread!

General reply, for what it's worth...

Drugs are great. They also kill people. So do automobiles and cheeseburgers.

I have long theorized that habitual-spiral-out-of-control type drug use is simply superfluous people purging themselves, since in many ways our species has "overcome" previous natural checks-and-balances, often described by biologists as "natural selection". Something inside them just wants to be dead. Says some subconscious facet of their mind: "Why haven't I been killed by a saber-tooth tiger yet? This whole living thing is such a stress. I better expedite the conclusion with abysmal dosage of heart-stopping/heart-exploding substances."

Enforcement is a joke. We all know that. In my experience, or at least in my dealings with Western populations, people are going to do what the fuck they're going to do. The East gets a little "fuzzy" to me. Understanding the complexities of their culture is a colossal undertaking. In many ways Asians have more in common with insect-culture than Western-culture. As a whole, the East is very much into "efficiency", and is why they dish out death sentences for dope. Drug use is seen as a serious threat to "The Grand Efficiency". And of course they still keep those canes handy in Singapore, or so I've heard. It's also hot as fuck there. Ask AK, he's been there too... or so he says.

The various states of the world are generally hostile toward explicit drug use (ie "recreational" drug use) since we do in fact live in a de facto globalist/corporatist model, and such models rest on the foundation/assumption of "The Grand Efficiency". Performance/competition is the essence of the machine. Something like a sociological "elan vital", or whatever the French call it. They also call the orgasm the "little death". Look that shit up.

Or as Agent Smith so elegantly observed: "People living out their lives, oblivious."

Not to say that in times of "crisis", states won't turn to performance-enhancing drugs to get an edge. Give your pilots methamphetamine and they'll fly twice as long and gladly crash their aircraft into enemy naval ships.

Or dial the potentiometer back a few clicks, and we have name-brand Adderall, courtesy of Barr Labs (et al), widely available for those suffering from the afflictions of ADD/ADHD. But only available in the United States, of course. Sorry, European readers. You'll have to get your up's from the illegal shit.

To speak personally, my adventures are numerous and varied. Drug use is almost a two-part equation. Part one deals with the chemical you're putting in your body. Part two deals with the context/environment that the "I" is interfacing with whilst under the influence of a chemical. And don't fool yourself, you are never fully in control while on drugs. But then again, when are you ever?

"Stop trying to control everything and just let go." -Tyler Durden



Edit: Boy, I even proof-read it this time and there was still typos. This little grey box is such a pain-in-the-ass to type in. Xear, how about we upgrade the design of this forum to better interface with 2016-era screen resolutions? Like, 600x800 is so 1998. BTW, I remember the old 600c. It even had a special "members section". Alien elite and all, of course. I digress.

Edit 2: If you can't do the withdrawl, maybe the Land of Shadows isn't a realm of exploration you're capable of treading. It can be as unforgiving as stepping off a mountain trolltunga and crashing into the sharp rocks below. Remember what the sign said in Dante's Inferno. Golly I'm so well-read.



Edited by JamesSTL (08/08/16 01:02 PM)

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#107951 - 08/08/16 01:46 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: JamesSTL]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
 Originally Posted By: JS
Says some subconscious facet of their mind: "Why haven't I been killed by a saber-tooth tiger yet? This whole living thing is such a stress. I better expedite the conclusion with abysmal dosage of heart-stopping/heart-exploding substances."


I like how this all ties into the Death instinct. Satan as a sort of apex predator of man in a sort of "if god didn't exist, it would be necessary for man to invent him" type of way. The answer and encapsulation not so much to "why do bad things happen to good people?" but the more important question of "why do sane people, knowing good and evil, commit acts of evil against their own selves".

Or in short: yeah! I totally agree with that assessment.

It's one thing to have done them, because it is an experience, and I'd imagine I'd have a hard time fathoming how a sober mind "ought" function without having any basis for comparison. In short you learn a lot of neat things that you end up at a loss to explain to anyone who hasn't been there. This is not without peril, either.

To continue to do them, however - although there are no hard fast-rules as to how much is enough, but you know it when you see it, and if you have to get too pedantic about it - well then whatever. Once the conversation is over, the only sane thing to do is to hang up the telephone.

It's worth having done them. It's not worth doing them. Beyond that I try not to over-think it.

 Originally Posted By: JS
And of course they still keep those canes handy in Singapore, or so I've heard. It's also hot as fuck there. Ask AK, he's been there too... or so he says.


Yeah - actually of all the places I've been to recently I recommend Singapore, highly! It's up there with Hong Kong - similar in size and general "vibe". Contrary to popular misconception, though (though totally in line with what you may've figured) there are areas of Singapore where they mostly turn a blind-eye to prostitution, chewing gum, cigarettes, not-very-good pot, etc, just like anywhere else. These areas also show it in terms of shitty sidewalks and other evidence of neglect.

The upscale side of the place, however: I have to say, if caning and that sort of discipline is what it takes to maintain that atmosphere: 'totally worth it.

Of course, some people prefer dilapidated apartments, used syringes, empty rubbers, and broken windows to high-rise apartments, clean public transit, and the finer things in life - 'depends how you answer the ol' question of "why are we here".
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#108520 - 09/08/16 01:04 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
mountaingoat Offline
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Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 471
Loc: Colorado
Is there some reason that indulgence and stupidity are mutually exclusive? In fact, isn't stupidity in and of itself something that can be indulged? Does intent factor into your question? My understanding of why you take drugs may be completely in opposition to your actual intent. Or are we simply looking at impact? Surely, if you do enough heroin, the end result is likely to be the same, regardless of intent.

Clearly, the answer is "it depends."
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