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#2601 - 12/06/07 05:51 PM Drug use indulgence or stupidity?
SSSnake Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 79
Loc: PA. U.S.A.
Where does one draw the line? If one doe's what they love? And
If we except our actions, be it good or bad, should one have liberty to do what one will's ? I say yes, but why so many debates; on satanist doing drugs?

What if it brings you joy? \:\)


D.L.B


Edited by SSSnake (12/06/07 06:02 PM)
_________________________
"Est et fideli tuta silentio merces:"—"for faithful silence, also, there is a sure reward."

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#2604 - 12/06/07 06:07 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
hellbent666
Unregistered



Satanism is all about responsible indulgence right? The only thing I ever found in The Satanic Bible that said not to use drugs was specifically about using during rituals. LaVey said it clouded your natural abilities to make your magic willed into motion. I'm an ex-drug abuser and that is totally not a Satanic thing to engage in. If it feels good then do it but think about it before you do it and see if it is detrimental to what you are currently trying to do. There are plenty of Satanists that use or have at least experimented with drugs before but it doesn't get out of control for them.
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#2606 - 12/06/07 06:17 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ]
SSSnake Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 79
Loc: PA. U.S.A.
Yes but thats kind of two fold some satanist dont even belive in magic. Control is a fanasy to them. Crowley did lots of drugs, so what did that make him?
_________________________
"Est et fideli tuta silentio merces:"—"for faithful silence, also, there is a sure reward."

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#2610 - 12/06/07 08:39 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
Crowley was into Thelma I believe that would make him a Thelmite...

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#2611 - 12/06/07 08:45 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
Equilibrio Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Missouri
Drugs can be a valuable tool in terms of mind expansion and perception tweaking.

I suppose the recreational use of drugs is alright as long as one doesn't let it gain control of them. Indulgence, not compulsion as the saying goes.

I've never really understood the appeal of drug induced intoxication. I mean, I've had some decent experiences in my day, but the novelty ended for me as soon as I absorbed what I could from it. It boggles my mind how people can spend decades of their lives getting high / drunk over and over again. What is the thrill in this kind of redundant activity? Is there some sort of goal that people are trying to achieve by it?

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#2612 - 12/06/07 09:00 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ta2zz]
SSSnake Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 79
Loc: PA. U.S.A.
THELMITEWhat is a Thelemite? There are a few ways of looking at the word. First of all, the dictionary provides a defintion tantamount to hedonist. So, when not capitalized, it may well mean this. In fact Brother R.B.'s thesis on the word 'Thelemite' suggests even the capitalized version of the word may well mean this. That's not the way most Thelemites see it, though. A Thelemite is someone who follows the philosophical path of Thelema, which is also a religion in the United States based on this philosophy. but didn't he do drugs?

D.L.B.

Equilibrio,

 Quote:
I've never really understood the appeal of drug induced intoxication. I mean, I've had some decent experiences in my day, but the novelty ended for me as soon as I absorbed what I could from it. It boggles my mind how people can spend decades of their lives getting high / drunk over and over again. What is the thrill in this kind of redundant activity? Is there some sort of goal that people are trying to achieve by it?


you have made me think thanks


Edited by SSSnake (12/06/07 09:11 PM)
_________________________
"Est et fideli tuta silentio merces:"—"for faithful silence, also, there is a sure reward."

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#2616 - 12/07/07 02:32 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
hellbent666
Unregistered



I've read Diary of a Drug Fiend by Aleister Crowley and throughout the book it seems as if he's completely lost all ability to control his consumption until the end. He has some kind of awakening and realizes that he can define proper uses for his drugs and it doesn't have to be detrimental to his daily activities anymore. I guess it was more of an epiphany of sorts for Crowley or at least that's how the book explains it.
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#2618 - 12/07/07 03:36 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Equilibrio]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
To quote Bukowski...

"Anyone can be a 'non-drunk', being a drunk takes endurance - endurance is more important than truth."

Have you ever "lost your mind"?

I haven't, it just keeps coming back - piece of shit that it is...
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#2621 - 12/07/07 07:57 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
Equilibrio Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Missouri
Mmmm-mmmmm...Love me some Bukowski.

I am well aware of the endurance required to be a "competition level" drunkard, as I have been a liquor store manager for just over 11 years. I have trained with the best, you could say.

And I would have to agree with our late pickled friend that endurance is more important than truth. Of course, so is everything else as I have yet to personally meet a truth that can withstand the grinding, panzer-like caress of my imagination.

I still don't understand the appeal of making intoxication a lifetime habit though...I think I just ask "why" too much. Maybe I should look up the local chapter of "Introspectives Anonymous".

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#2623 - 12/07/07 12:37 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Drug & Alchol use and indulgence.

If you need it to get up in the morning its a problem.
If you need it inorder to function "normally", its a problem.
If you rob, beg, borrow, and steal for it, its a problem.
It then rules you.
You are no longer in control of your life.

If you can do it socially, on occassion, and stop.
Its not a problem.

Yes, the uses can bring about joy, but you have to be able to understand what the joy is bringing you.

Laughter
Comfort
Forgetting Stuff
Spiritualness
Awareness
Numbness
Calmness

Its all a matter of how you chose to use it, its just another tool.

Morg




Edited by Morgan (12/07/07 12:45 PM)
Edit Reason: My personal stupidy is my own business.
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#2626 - 12/07/07 03:53 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Equilibrio]
Euronymous Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 46
Loc: san diego, ca
I totally concur on the aforementioned statement. When you use drugs by means of indulgence, you have control; when you use drugs by means of compulsion, you have no control. A Satanist must always have control of His or Her own mental focus and life. It's as simple as that. If your going to do drugs, do it to indulge not as a compulsion.
_________________________
" And in the secret caves of my wisdom, it is known that there is no God but Me. "

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#2632 - 12/07/07 07:41 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
To quote Dean Martin....

"I feel sorry for those of you who don't drink. You wake up in the morning, and that's the best you're going to feel all day"
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#2642 - 12/08/07 01:44 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: fakepropht]
lee Offline
*BANNED* aka SSSnake
lurker


Registered: 12/08/07
Posts: 4
I smoke dope and drink 15 beers a day if someone dont like it they can lick my balls
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#2645 - 12/08/07 07:54 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: lee]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
You smoke weed and drink like a fish. Guess what? It shows.

Perhaps a memorial service is in order for you lee, to pay tribute to the millions of brain cells you've killed over the years.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#2655 - 12/08/07 10:10 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: fakepropht]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
\:\) You DO understand!!!

Nice...
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#2692 - 12/10/07 06:37 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
Succubus666 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 161
Like everything else in the world, mind-altering substances and their use are merely a matter of perception. I’ve never concerned myself with the minds of alcoholics or drug addicts because those are the minds of the weak and the foolish. You could delve deeper into the matter psychologically and say that these people have experienced something so horrible in life that the inability to cope with such constant negative emotions surrounding such events leads them to seeking solace in numbness. Having a history of parents or close acquaintances who have abused substances actually has an educational effect in that it teaches the individual that it is an appropriate way to deal with one’s problems (you see the exact same result with those who have a family history of suicide, domestic violence, etc.). The desire to seek numbness continues to cycle if the individual is unwilling or unable to cope with the negative emotions that led to it in the first place, and further spirals downward into addition and self-destruction.

Ultimately this is the result of a weak mind, a lack of self-control and self-respect. Even when you throw nature (genetics) and nurture (social upbringing) into the mix, in the end it is ultimately up to the individual who can make any decision he wants based on his own strength and integrity. I have come across some Satanists over the years who have chosen to experiment little or not at all with drugs out of the ignorant assumption that using something once or twice automatically leads to addiction. This myth is perpetrated by the media, right-wing conservatives, youth anti-drug campaigns and perhaps even from having witnessed a few people in their own lives deal with addiction. I can tell you from extensive personal experience, in my own lives and in the lives of people I know, that this is not at all the case for every person.

There are intelligent people out there who occasionally indulge in mind-altering substances having educated themselves on the matter and knowing they are not foolish enough to waste their money or their lives on the over consumption of such things. For artists it presents a creative experience, philosophers and writers may find new ideals not readily available within their usual mindset, and overall many people find enlightening (although from time to time scary) experiences that may not otherwise be available to them.

The war on drugs exists worldwide because the majority of drug users we see in society are not very intelligent and have a significant lack of self-respect and free will. Unfortunately that makes things difficult for the rest of us. There will always be a difference, opposite as black and white, between the intelligent recreational substance users and those who choose to abuse them, become addicted and forfeit their self-respect. It is regrettable that within the human race the sheep seem to have always outnumbered the wolves.

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#2740 - 12/13/07 11:57 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
MARUTUKKU Offline
lurker


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 4
Loc: pennsylvania USA
I think that drug use clouds your mind, stifling you desire and drive to to achieve your goals. Don't get me Wrong, i believe the occasional use (and i dont mean once a week, thats NOT ocasional) can be fine. Of course a large chunk of the population has more of a tendency towards drug abuse. I had my time with it, and now that i havent touched anything but some beer every now and then, i feel much more open minded and focused.

Also, something not mentioned here (unless I missed it) is prescription drugs (ie: painkillers, psychotropic medication). Doctors are some of the world biggest drug dealers in the world. Countless numbers of people have fallen victim to the addiction of painkellers afetr a major surgery, an accident, a trip to the mental ward, depression, and many other reasons. I know i did. Some blame it on the doctors, but i say thats bullshit. It's just an example of how the drugs cloud your mind, leading people to believe that is a viable exscuse for thier problems.

In hindsight, be careful. That shit can bite you in the ass before you know it.
_________________________

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#2743 - 12/13/07 06:04 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: MARUTUKKU]
Equilibrio Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Missouri
Not all drugs cloud your mind.

As a matter of fact, some substances can actually alter your perceptions in such a way as to make you more focused and aware.

And as far as attaining goals goes...There are those who simply think that the world is way more kick-ass when experienced through a psychedelic haze. There are countless books and recordings that prove it. Would you say that Hunter S. Thompson or The Beatles had problems attaining their goals?

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#2744 - 12/13/07 06:15 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Equilibrio]
hellbent666
Unregistered



What about Reverend Marilyn Manson? He's a great example of an intelligent and productive drug using Satanist. I'm pretty sure that he uses drugs to feel good which is ultimately indulgence. Not all drug users are addicts. I've also noticed that my art is enhanced when I use psychadelics, but maybe this is just my perception of things. I also think it depends on the drug/s. When you buy cocaine you contribute to the deaths of innocent people in Columbia. So that is not living and let live. But pot really is becoming less of an issue for people all over the U.S. They (scientists) are also finding that MDMA (extasy) is beneficial to people with Post Traumatic Stress Dissorder. Who would've thought?!
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#2750 - 12/14/07 05:25 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
Asmodeus Xaxam Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 17
Loc: Somerville TX. USA
It's a matter of choice. Being responsible is about taking responsibilities for your actions. Do all the drugs you want. Be it natural, chemical, legal or not. That's all good and acceptable.

However... Don't bitch later if it brings you problems. You
make your choices. Don't be like these idiots sueing tobacco companies for them having health problems. They knew the risks when they started smoking. There actions currently are irresponsible because they are making their problems, someone elses.

If you are a responsible, self sufficient adult. As all Satanists should be anyways. This shouldn't be a problem for you.
_________________________
-X

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#2808 - 12/18/07 02:40 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ]
DONTfckWITHme Offline
lurker


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Dayton
 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
I've read Diary of a Drug Fiend by Aleister Crowley and throughout the book it seems as if he's completely lost all ability to control his consumption until the end. He has some kind of awakening and realizes that he can define proper uses for his drugs and it doesn't have to be detrimental to his daily activities anymore. I guess it was more of an epiphany of sorts for Crowley or at least that's how the book explains it.

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#2809 - 12/18/07 02:40 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: DONTfckWITHme]
DONTfckWITHme Offline
lurker


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 2
Loc: Dayton
dedee

Um, what? Did you perhaps click something wrong or get disconnected? I hope these two posts aren't evidence for the second opinion of the title.


Edited by fakepropht (12/18/07 09:25 PM)

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#2848 - 12/22/07 05:00 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
L Fern Tej Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Las Vegas, NV. (u.s.)
i've never really thought about it, because well, my drug consumption has varied from heavy to very moderate to none at all in the past years.
and i've never truly felt clouded by any drug. (which includes a vast majority.)
what i have realized though is the fact that when induced by any mind altering substance one sees things in a manner that might be missed by the repetitive reality of sobriety.
although of course when faced with a continuous use of any drug you may not have mind enough to convert your newly acquainted epiphanies into thoughts of sound reason.
which pretty much brings me back to the all too familiar "indulgence, not impulse" saying \:\)

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#2849 - 12/22/07 05:15 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ]
L Fern Tej Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Las Vegas, NV. (u.s.)
Manson states in his auto-biography that he had a huge drug problem, in which he abused drugs out of sheer boredom and addiction.
he had satanist-like beliefs before even beginning to experiment with drugs and if i'm not mistaken, ever moment involving drugs recalled by manson in no way was productive.
i could be wrong though, it's been so long since i've read that book.
and i agree with you i've also found my artistic abilities to be at peak when either on or coming down from a psychedelic-type substance...not sure why though :3

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#4572 - 02/27/08 06:59 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
Rossums Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
Bad bad bad.If you think taking drugs has nothing to do with anyone but you,you are wrong.Lets forget about health and the effects of drugs on yourself and look at the bigger picture.How much crime can be atributed to drugs?How many people are killed or robbed inocent or not before those drugs get into youre body?How much money does it cost the tax payer to try prevent these drugs coming into the country and how much resources do drugs take up that could be used to improve our lives?The human and financial loss is catastrophic.You buy drugs,youre funding those people,you have a degree of responsibility for every drug related crime (55% was the figure in the uk released by the home office) ohh my,i dont mean to be a wet blanket but i think we would all be better off without druggiewugs.Legalize them ?? hmm i dont know about that.There would be more anti-social behaviour that is connected with alcohol use if drugs were legalized
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#4574 - 02/27/08 10:48 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
how come so many satanist on here are fucking ned flanders, my christ i could be in a xian chat room for all i know. with davanci stating that anyone that smokes weed is a junkie and should be jailed then this what the fuck!!! i loved drugs in my youth and i enjoy weed to this day nothing harder these days though, heavy drugs are a young mans game. do what you want just be aware of the consaquanse. wanting people to be jailed for induluging themselves is just fucked,and just beacuse its not your brand of pleasure for shame.(git them thar rope we going to hang us some queers cletus).

to make it perfecty clear what im saying see below -and this does not apply to anyone with the responsibitly to the responsable logic just the fucking fanatics

to anyone on here that is a fanatic in anyhting that prohibts my pleasure fuck you, iv been wathcing recently and i could swear form some of the die hard fanatical staments im in a xian or dare i say islam site.

that is the mentailty of the fanatic not somthing i would expect to spew from some one claiming the title of satanist.

(You buy drugs,youre funding those people) those people? what the fuck is that supposed to mean? i sold drugs back in the day i am thouse people. its not the drugs (thouse) people where criminally inclined to begin with you cant blame the substance for what people do to buy it.nor should you out law a substance just beacuse the weak cant handle it, why penalize the strong/the ones who can handle it?now on a side note i my self in my youth have done a shit load of crime,none of it for drugs mind you i just liked the rush and the easy money i was also on welfare from age 16-20 for the free money as well i bet i took more money out of my goverment and tax payers then 2 junkies combined. and im proud of it. if some fool wants to work like a slave while i sit on my ass perfeclty able to work partying and selling (drugs) and having a ball then all i can do is laugh at the tax payer for not being as smart as me or due to some sort of warped duty to his country or the collective and choosing not to. and actully having to work.then bitching about it becuase his own taboos keep him out working every day till he dies like a slave.to funny.

_________________________
http://www.sintheticgraphics.com

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#4576 - 02/27/08 11:58 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: Rossums
ohh my,i dont mean to be a wet blanket but i think we would all be better off without druggiewugs.Legalize them ?? hmm i dont know about that.There would be more anti-social behaviour that is connected with alcohol use if drugs were legalized


The Korova milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus vellocet or synthemesc or drencrom, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-violence.

Welly, welly, welly, welly, welly, welly, well. To what do I owe the extreme pleasure of this surprising visit?

Druggiewugs and bookiewooks what did you watch "A Clockwork Orange" one too many times? We all know those damn milk-plus bars and their druggiewugs do nothing but add to the old ultra-violence… It must just get your guttywuts all twisted up…

Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#4578 - 02/27/08 12:57 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: rob_church]
Rossums Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
I think so many satanists are fucking ned flanders because dispite his religious stance he has very twinkly eyes,id feel very safe in his arms.So do i have to be a criminal to be a satanist rob?

" do what you want just be aware of the consaquanse"

You are talking about what consequences will effect you.What i got from that was do what you want,even when it effects countless people that want nothing to do with it,as long as you know the consequences.You say i want people to be jailed for induluging themselves.Im shure you are not suggesting that the only way we can indulge ourself is by breaking the law?

"to anyone on here that is a fanatic in anyhting that prohibts my pleasure fuck you"

Well thats not very nice is it?If youre pleasure means infringing on the rights of the law obideing majority of us then yes im a carakpot fanatic and would like to bash you with a truncheon and lock you up young man!

"that is the mentailty of the fanatic not somthing i would expect to spew from some one claiming the title of satanist."

Well im not claiming to be a satanist,im just testing the watters,im an Atheist with an intrest in Satanism.If all satanists were like you,which im shure there not,then im quite shure i would be offended by the title of 'satanist'

"(You buy drugs,youre funding those people) those people? what the fuck is that supposed to mean? i sold drugs back in the day i am thouse people"

Well what it means Rob,if you buy druggiewugs from drugdealers such as yourself,you have to give them money.For the most part that money comes from illegal means,thus,youre are responsable for there crimes to some degree.

" its not the drugs (thouse) people where criminally inclined to begin with you cant blame the substance for what people do to buy it"

BAhahaha ohh my.Either i havent understood this very well or its a rediculas claim for anyone to ever have made.Wither those people would still commit crimes if there no drugs in the country is not for you to say.Why dont you stop selling them drugs and see if that helps?? hows that for an idea? no? aww well.Arggg you cant blame the substance for what people do to buy it >_< now that was a silly remark rob.Firstly if the substance wasnt there people couldnt buy it and there would have been no crime.If a crack adict shoots someone for there wallet and goes to a dealer to buy crack,its that substance or the wanting for that substance or the effect that substance has had on there brain box thats is the driving force behind it!

"none of it for drugs mind you i just liked the rush and the easy money "

Ahh well just as long as it was fun.Come on now Rob,youre a nice lad im shure but you need to buck youre ideas up!if petty crime is what you do for kicks its a pretty dull existence.

"i was also on welfare from age 16-20 for the free money as well i bet i took more money out of my goverment and tax payers then 2 junkies combined. and im proud of it."

This is bad,real bad.What about the spastics and what not that actualy need that money??They get less money because the government has less money because its spent on leeches like you who claim when you dont need to (Ohh and its also spent on preventing crimes that you commit:) )

"if some fool wants to work like a slave while i sit on my ass perfeclty able to work partying and selling (drugs) and having a ball then all i can do is laugh at the tax payer for not being as smart as me or due to some sort of warped duty to his country or the collective and choosing not to"

wait i think i just need to...

"all i can do is laugh at the tax payer for not being as smart as me"

yes he actully said that >_<.
Right Rob its been pretty much light hearted up until now.Why do you assume that people who have jobs are fools and slaves?I know my father loves his job.he trained for years just so he could have that job.I know lots of people who love there jobs,some who like them and some who just do them to pay the bills.Im shure none of them would trade there life for youres.I guess they think its nice not being a criminal.If they decided to be as smart of you and not work then where would the welfare come from??The tax payer owns youre arse Rob.

aww rob im weary of this now,there is still quite a bit i want to shout at you but i think im just going into rant mode.I thinks its time for poo byeeee

p.s youre a leech and a criminal and should be dealt with accordingly,i have decided to call the police

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#4580 - 02/27/08 01:00 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
Rossums Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
I likes clock work orange ta2zz,it made me feel a feeling.I done a cry out my middle soze i did
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#4592 - 02/27/08 07:58 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
lol i stated i did deal,and did at the young age commit alot of crime, i dont do crime anymore i did my time and decide the the rush was not worth my loss of freedom

now on to you that top part was actully amied at davinci but so be it..no you dont need to be a criminal to be a satanist but to me a criminal is living life doing exactly what thou wilt so to speak who has lived more of a vital existance you ned flanders mother fuckers slaving day in and day out or the criminal taking what he wants doing what he wants when he wants granted their are some times repections to thouse actions but still a criminal is more of a satanist in my eyes the some right wing clown yes.

You are talking about what consequences will effect you.What i got from that was do what you want,even when it effects countless people that want nothing to do with.exactly fuck the collective why do you care? i do not,when i die the world dies with me ,i am the center of my reailty and can only feel my pain love joy why should i give 2 fucks about the collective?

Well thats not very nice is it?If youre pleasure means infringing on the rights of the law obideing majority of us then yes im a carakpot fanatic and would like to bash you with a truncheon and lock you up young man!

my pleasure is what ever i please to do drugs sex rock and roll lol you get the idea.. the joy of the internet if some one siad that to me in real life i would break a bat across their face but ohh the internt where anonomity righns and the weak are allowed to oppose the strong with out fear of retrobution.

no you are corrent more satanist are not like me hence my ned flanders refrence they all for manipualtion until its happening to them or their govemrnt and money then they are dead agisnt it quite funny actully.

nonsose on the dealer being responsible for the crime thats bullshit,so the liquier store owner is then resposible for the action of thouse that buy booze of them then?or is it only the one your goverment has deemed illegal that you oppose?

if the substance was not their then their would be no crime. do you actully hear your slef talking? if the subsantce was not their then their would still be crime just for something eles junkies are junkies if they cant get their fix in one place they will do it for another.

indeed in my youth crime was a blast and very very easy money,lol at you tell me i live a dull existance you are bound to laws that you had no contol over creating and enfocre them you do as you are told like a slave,i did what i wanted when i wanted took what i wanted and hurt who i wanted smoked and snorted what i wanted and you think you have lived little robot to funny.

their you go with you altruism agian what about thouse that need it who gives a fuck.the money will never run out beacuse theirs enough robots like you running atround trying to save the world that people like me can expliot it and laugh.

hell ya i said that

If they decided to be as smart of you and not work then where would the welfare come from??The tax payer owns youre arse Rob.

see thats the thing as i said theirs enought do gooders like you running around that will never happen thosue that feel some duty to the collective or their goverment so they will work till the day they die, ha if i was disabled and not able to work and actully needing that service they would own me,i was manipualting the system and getting free money really who owns who:)

p.s youre a leech and a criminal and should be dealt with accordingly,i have decided to call the police

lol what mroe could i expect from a slave enforcing rules that he did not create like a dog you shall obey your master but guess what im not a criminal anymore nor am i on welfare i marred a gourgus girl that bring home the bacon and i do art all day the more talented of us can actully live with out doing work and art i dont consider work:) you seem to think im young as well how old do you think i am out of cuoirsty?

sit...roll over..fetch rover.
_________________________
http://www.sintheticgraphics.com

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#4593 - 02/27/08 08:16 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
So let me get this straight. You are against drugs and the toll the take on society at large. Then you make this statement in another thread....
 Quote:
The one thing i have strong views on are the opium farmers in iraq.There civilians and there only source of income are those feilds.Destroying them will make the farmers go to the taliban for support.Buying the crops from the farmers and using it for medical poropses,perhaps methadone treatments ect,will loosen the grip of the taliban in those areas and they will lose the support of the civilians making it much easier for American and British forces to keep control of the towns and rural areas.

Where do you think the reapings of those fields are going to? Straight into the illegal heroin market. Where the results of which are the very things you are against and would like to see erradicated. Erradication is being done, yet your heart now bleeds for the little farmer that is just trying to eke out a living? So instead, let's support that farmer by turning his product into something "medicinal". After all, then they won't be forced to turn to the Taliban for support. That certainly justifies it. Methadone is a sham. You are only replacing an illegal addiction with a "legal" addiction. Methadone is only a government controlled form of heroin. One they can reap some benefits from. Most addicts continue their addiction by using methadone for years. But it's legal, so it's ok right? Here's a better idea. Why not introduce these farmers to alternative crops and instruct them in the methods to grow them? Offer them free seed to get them started. I'm no agriculturist or farmer, but I'm pretty sure poppy isn't the only crop that can be grown in that region.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#4603 - 02/28/08 01:56 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
Engel08 Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40
Loc: California
I believe in moderation.
I practice some regular drug use.
It brings up ideas but can and will get in the way of some willpower.
If your willpower is strong enough it can be honed despite of a moderate use of drugs.
One can be a functional user.
But if it interferes with your goals. You need to quite or cut back.
I also agree with Morgan's statement.
_________________________
"Drink to me"

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#4608 - 02/28/08 06:40 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: fakepropht]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Quote:
Why not introduce these farmers to alternative crops and instruct them in the methods to grow them? Offer them free seed to get them started. I'm no agriculturist or farmer, but I'm pretty sure poppy isn't the only crop that can be grown in that region.


I know Rossums comment was about Iraq, and your reply was in response to his, but the majority of poppy fields are in Afghanistan. Their government is a bit, well, embarrassed that their country, with a newly elected government, is the world's largest exporter of opium. So, in an effort to tidy up this unsightly blemish, government-hired workers will locate poppy fields (some are very carefully concealed from both land and aerial views), raze them, and hand the pissed-off farmers a bag of crop seed to grow in place of it. The huge roadblock this creates is that corn (or any food crop really) is not worth that of opium, so farmers are losing huge amounts of money that once supported their families and way of life. They will then proceed to dig up the fields, and replant poppy seeds. It's a pretty nasty cycle.

In response to Rossum's "Ned Flanders" stance on drugs, these (according to him) being the source of all the world's problems--dear Rossum, the real problem is poverty. Not having enough food to eat, not having any clothes to wear, seeing others that work far less hard then you and have 100 times more things than you. What would you do in those circumstances? What if a crop of corn or vegetables that you slaved to produce only yielded you $5? Do you really think you could rally yourself to be the honest individual over the sound of your stomach growling? Your children crying and miserable because of illness and hunger? Placed in these real circumstances it would take you all of 10 seconds to decide to deal in drugs, whether it be producing them or hussling them. Why? Because at one's core, you'd choose to live. You really need to get past your comfortable little "Armchair Savior" stance and take a look at the real world. Drugs are there, and they will always BE there, and they're not the problem.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#4616 - 02/28/08 01:02 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Nemesis]
Rossums Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
In respose to fakepropht...
Yes i am against drugs.That quote dosent seem to sound pro drugs.Quite the opposite actually.The government needs to buy opium somewhere right?And i quite clearly said that it should be used for medical poropses.Also methadone peograms will be more avalible to drug addicts in this country meaning there lives will become more stable and they wont have buy drugs,that in itself will reduce crime.If the government buys it i dont think its going to be made into street heroin now is it?
If these crops are burned the farmers will lose money and go to the taliban for support meaning the taliban tighten there grip on the people in iraq (i do actually mean afghanistan but i ballsed that comment up >_< )making it more dangerous and difficult for troops to operate there,as public opinion will be against them.The farmers may just decide to start a new crop of opium and if its not burned or bought by the government it gets to our streets,we dont want that do we??
They could grow different crops that are legal but thats not in there intrests.Im shure they get more for opium than they would for Rice.If they did decide to change from opium to another crop they would notice the difference in the money they earned and most of them would probably kick off and blame American and British troops giving the power back to the taliban.


In response to Nemesis...
I never once said drugs are the source of all the world's problems.Thats just silly.I dont think you have understood me.
The bigest percentage of crime is drug related.Wither its what people do to get drugs or what drug money funds or people actualy being caught dealing drugs,this is what makes up the majority of crime.I think that poverty is a bigger problem than drugs,and that poverty will be the motivation behind why many people get involved with drugs.To takle poverty you need money,money that is being thrown away on drug crimes,its a huge ammount of money.I dont know about america but in the uk its the single biggest drain on resources.If the government try stop the flow of drugs it will just cost more money and raise taxes.If people decide thy want rid of the drug trade and just dont buy them(I know this is not likley) the problem will go away.The drug addicts would ofcourse still buy there drugs but if no one else decided to take another drugywug ever again there there would be no fresh drug addicts and the current onmes would soon die and that would be that.The money that the government would have to spend on bettering education in poor areas and perhaps increasing welfare or lowering the taxes would be huge.Wither or not the government would use the money that would have been spent on these crimes would go to helping get rid of poverty i dont know.I guess thats another discussion.When the american government are giving funds to organizations that have not even asked for them it seems unlikley.It should though (when im in charge of ermm the world it definetly will,just you wait!)
hmmm im confused >_< basicaly im trying so drugs are a problem but i think it would be more simple and realistic to tackle poverty without drugs.ohhh my its blooming exausting defending my crackpot views,im going for a cofee.I have actual love for every one of you,bye bye xxx

Ohh and i will deal with you later ron,i thought it would be good manners to reply to these two chaps first as there arguments couldnt be boiled down to "FUCK OFF"

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#4617 - 02/28/08 01:04 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
Rossums Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
ohh and nemesis youre bit about the poppy feilds and the cycle and the way of life and all that,yes i liked that i think i agree but im not shure of anything just now,im in the future >_<
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#4635 - 02/29/08 12:12 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Methadone clinics are a legal form of an opium den. It's a cleaner, less potent form of heroin or opium. It's a legal form of addiction. It's like offering an alcoholic "lesser beer" instead of a malt licquor. Many, not all, use the methadone clinics as a legal way to get their next hit. They still go out and score. But now it is a bit easier, since they can hit the clinic first and level off. I don't advocate drug use, but I do advocate drugs being legal. For some of the very reasons you state. Too many people carry a crime record for nothing more than enjoying a simple joint on the weekend in the privacy of their own home. If it were legal, regulated, taxed, and controlled, similar to alcohol, drug related crime would drop dramaticly. By the way, if alcohol were subject to the same criteria as drugs, it would be a controlled substance on par with heroin, opium, and barbituates. You would need a prescription to access it.

Corn has become a hot commodity these days. With the sudden interest in ethanol as a substitute fuel. It is the new gold or oil. It's popularity has caused a sharp increase in the price of groceries. Everything from fries to beer include a form of corn in their ingredients. Again, I don't know dick about growing crops in that area. But, I would hazard a guess that growing corn instead of poppies would and could replace the gain. In the drug world, the person sourcing the very basic product rarely makes out like a bandit. It is the person on the street peddling it that makes the most profit. The farmer in the Middle East or in Bolivia makes very little for his crop. It isn't until it is harvested, refined, cut, shipped to the middle man, cut further, and given to the street hussler that the profits are made. Corn doesn't have to go through the process. It is legal and sold at far market value. Which today, is very high.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#5166 - 03/10/08 01:32 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Drug use is very double edged.
If used in the right way,right time,and with vibing energy all around you. Man and nature are oneforce intuned.
The wrong way or wrong setting causes bondage.Hate towards humanity,also could lead to death.
Drugs are gifts only for those who will not abuse the privlege.
Drugs are for relief of chronic pain and social pleasure.
Not for slavery...

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#5167 - 03/10/08 01:38 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
I am open about the use of drugs.
I am a patient of pain.
drugs are gifts.
Not to be taken lightly.


"Into the void a ray of light"
Me.

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#5168 - 03/10/08 01:40 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Nicotine is the worst bondage.
I have failed to break the cycle yet.

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#5169 - 03/10/08 01:43 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Tax dope for the love of humanity.
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#5170 - 03/10/08 01:47 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Engel08]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Moderation is the key.
I will drink to that!





"Beauty in the eye of a beholder"

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#5171 - 03/10/08 01:54 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: fakepropht]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Opium is bread on the table.
The golden crop of farmers overthere.
Tobacco is tenneesee.
One in the same?

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#5172 - 03/10/08 01:59 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Charge of the horns...
I could not help myself.
Good debate.

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#5180 - 03/10/08 04:45 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Isaak w shipley]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
Isaak, you should probably consider putting all of your thoughts into just one post, as it may be considered flooding by the Admin and Moderators.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

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#5191 - 03/10/08 10:30 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: DaVinci]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: DaVinci
Isaak, you should probably consider putting all of your thoughts into just one post, as it may be considered flooding by the Admin and Moderators.

Agreed...

I will also add that the rest of us will just think you cannot form a coherent post... In a thread on drugs at that...

Remember the way you represent yourself here is mostly a name, maybe something filled out in your profile, and a picture or avatar... The rest is how you present yourself through posting...

~T~


Edited by ta2zz (03/10/08 10:35 AM)
Edit Reason: added a few words to complete a thought...
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#5236 - 03/10/08 10:36 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: lee]
TheMask Offline
member


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
Hey what the fuck, im stoned right now.

 Originally Posted By: lee
I smoke dope and drink 15 beers a day if someone dont like it they can lick my balls


And that post was fucking HILARIOUS to me. XDDD


Lets see now, what do i think about drugs?
I love them. I actually think that all drugs should be legalized. That way we could possibly get rid of the weak-minded drug users who dont know much about self-control.

Since thats what its all about - Control.
My theory about drugs is that _anybody_ with a strong enough pysche can basically do every drug in the book and still not get addicted. As long as your mind is strong there is not much risk for addiction. Obviously.

I dont care much for the false facts spridden out about drugs either, such as Marijuana. How its a "gateway" drug and causes an addiction to users.

First of all - If someone goes on to using other drugs after using cannabis then the person is likely to do so in either way. There is a huge difference between cannabis and speed, cocaine or extasy.
Cannabis is the one drug that calms you down and gives you a nice buzz. Speed and cocaine get you maxed out like hell, you probably wont sleep for a few days and extasy is a complete party drug. Psychadelics give you hallucinations so those are nothing like cannabis either.

The only drug i could think of thats something similiar to cannabis is heroin. And you dont exactly go from cannabis to heroin, do you?

Regarding people getting addicted on weed its completely mental addiction and not physical like with the other drugs so its not really possible to get addicted unless youre a weakminded fool.
Ive known a person like this, she had to smoke every morning before school and every night. She then later turned into a complete junkie doing speed and shooting the stuff up her veins.


I know myself that i have used pot alot during long periods of time. Sometimes months. I dont know if i would want to call me addicted, still. I wanted to do it. I was always offered it and it was for the hell of it i guess.
Maybe i was a tad addicted around that first long period of mine when i got busted and wasnt allowed to smoke anymore.
I was kind of down about it for a few days but after a while you noticed that it was kind of sweet without it anyway.
But in that case i was taken away a right and thats never pleasing.
If i were allowed to smoke perhaps i would have stopped by myself later, like i did in the end now.

I had a long smoking period this summer with a friend of mine. After a long period of smoking i actually grew tired of it after a while and really didnt want anything to do with it. So i just took one last joint on the first day of school for the hell of it and since then i went cold turkey (up until about now) with not many problems at all.

So you see - Its about self control. I could stop if i would want but why would i want to in the first place?
Even if a person uses it alot it could still mean that they have control of it.

I belive firmly in the philosophy of people being able to do exactly anything with themselves as long as it doesnt hurt anyone but themselves. The state controlling the drug-market for their own benefit and narrow-minded people go against this philosophy.


Edited by TheMask (03/10/08 10:40 PM)

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#5686 - 03/14/08 10:15 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: TheMask]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
I dont care much for the false facts spridden out about drugs either, such as Marijuana. How its a "gateway" drug and causes an addiction to users.

It's rightly called that because for most drug addicted persons, this is the first drug they tried. It is easier to obtain. It doesn't carry the social stigmas that other drugs do. It's cheap. It is perceived to be safe. The criminal penalties for pot use are lesser than those of other drugs. Therefore, it is the first drug expiremented with. Once the novelty wears off, or the need for a bigger high develops, they move on to something else stronger. Thus marijuana creates a "gateway" to stronger drug use. Not a false fact, a proven fact, among addicts.

 Quote:
I know myself that i have used pot alot during long periods of time. Sometimes months. I dont know if i would want to call me addicted, still. I wanted to do it. I was always offered it and it was for the hell of it i guess.
Maybe i was a tad addicted around that first long period of mine when i got busted and wasnt allowed to smoke anymore.
I was kind of down about it for a few days but after a while you noticed that it was kind of sweet without it anyway.
But in that case i was taken away a right and thats never pleasing.
If i were allowed to smoke perhaps i would have stopped by myself later, like i did in the end now.

I had a long smoking period this summer with a friend of mine. After a long period of smoking i actually grew tired of it after a while and really didnt want anything to do with it. So i just took one last joint on the first day of school for the hell of it and since then i went cold turkey (up until about now) with not many problems at all.

So you see - Its about self control. I could stop if i would want but why would i want to in the first place?
Even if a person uses it alot it could still mean that they have control of it.

Spoken like a true addict. Few recognize or chose to ignore the fact that they are addicted. They claim they can regulate the usage. They only do it when they want to. They site times when they didn't do it. "I went a whole year without drinking". They justify their using. "It's my birthday and I deserve to get high". "My dog died and I drank for a week to help with the healing". "I'll stop next month, cause this month is St. Patrick's Day, and I want to celebrate". Even though they aren't Irish and have no clue what the holiday is about. It's a reason to justify cracking open a beer at 10 in the morning. Taken from an addiction site:
There is scarcely any agent which can be taken into the body to which some individuals will not get a reaction satisfactory or pleasurable to them, persuading them to continue its use even to the point of abuse — that is, to excessive or persistent use beyond medical need.

_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#5719 - 03/15/08 10:36 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: fakepropht]
TheMask Offline
member


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
 Quote:
It's rightly called that because for most drug addicted persons, this is the first drug they tried. It is easier to obtain. It doesn't carry the social stigmas that other drugs do. It's cheap. It is perceived to be safe. The criminal penalties for pot use are lesser than those of other drugs. Therefore, it is the first drug expiremented with. Once the novelty wears off, or the need for a bigger high develops, they move on to something else stronger. Thus marijuana creates a "gateway" to stronger drug use. Not a false fact, a proven fact, among addicts.


Yes, sure. But these "drug addicted persons" were likely to become drug addicts either way - Its not thanks to the pot itself. Like i said, the ones who move on to something stronger were more likely to do so in either way. The ones who just like pot, stick with pot.
Pot is blamed for people going further into stronger shit but i dont think that is the case seeing as how pot and the rest have very different effects. If you just like pot, you will stick with it.

But like you said, it is easy to obtain and doesnt carry much of a social stigma. Therefore it is easy to blame it for heavy drug addiction as well.


 Quote:
Spoken like a true addict. Few recognize or chose to ignore the fact that they are addicted. They claim they can regulate the usage. They only do it when they want to. They site times when they didn't do it. "I went a whole year without drinking". They justify their using. "It's my birthday and I deserve to get high". "My dog died and I drank for a week to help with the healing". "I'll stop next month, cause this month is St. Patrick's Day, and I want to celebrate". Even though they aren't Irish and have no clue what the holiday is about. It's a reason to justify cracking open a beer at 10 in the morning. Taken from an addiction site:
There is scarcely any agent which can be taken into the body to which some individuals will not get a reaction satisfactory or pleasurable to them, persuading them to continue its use even to the point of abuse — that is, to excessive or persistent use beyond medical need.



I dont think that just because youre a big smoker one can immidiatly call themself addicted.
"They site times when they didn't do it. "I went a whole year without drinking"."

Yes, i tend to do that.
I love pot, i dont feel like i should deny it. Neither should i deny the fact that i was sick of smoking in the end and had no problems whatsoever giving it up a time or two around.
When you are debating you are bringing your own arguments in the question back and forth - Which is what im doing here.
I dont see why that argument would be a sign of addiction or a non-valid argument.
Maybe the view of that argument as an sign of addiction is something that the anti-cannabis professors are teaching, so that the argument automatically fails even tho its valid? Just a thought.

""My dog died and I drank for a week to help with the healing"."

No, i dont like using it as a way of "healing". I had a friend that used to drink every time something went bad with a girl and i think that its addictive and idiotic behaviour.
If im having a shitty or boring day it can however be nice to take a little joint and play some videogames.
This is not something that i NEED to do and i will suffer horribly if i dont do it - Its just nice.

I have a hard time saying right now whether i was addicted or not for those periods of times when i smoked like a shitbag. If i was im not going to deny it.
Maybe i was a bit in the beginning when i had some problems giving it up the first time since after all - I had some problems giving it up the first time. But after that i would say that i was rather voluntery with possibly some addictive traits.
Not a full-on addict like you claim.

Let me borrow a quote on this matter.
"Marijuana is not a drug. I used to suck dick for coke. Now thats an addiction man. Have you ever sucked some dick for marijuana?"

Thats an addiction to me. When you completely need something. I have seen some weed addicts that need to smoke every damn day just to work properly. I on the other hand - Dont.

Who is to say when my free will isnt my own free will anymore? Probably when i need something to that extent. I dont need this when i get up in the morning every day to work properly. I do it because i want to, because its fun and because i can.

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#5737 - 03/15/08 07:24 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: TheMask]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
Yes, sure. But these "drug addicted persons" were likely to become drug addicts either way - Its not thanks to the pot itself. Like i said, the ones who move on to something stronger were more likely to do so in either way.


Yes, exactly. That's why pot is called the gateway drug. Because it is easy to obtain, cheap, and doesn't carry heavy legal penalties. Substitute pot for another legal substance. Say sugar. If I already have a predisposition to sugar abuse, wouldn't it make sense that I would feed that by taking free sugar packets from the local restaurant? Eventually, I move on to sodas that contain a lot of sugar. Craving even more sugar, I now eat a packet of sugar, drink a six pack of Mountain Dew, and seek out sugar cane sticks to suck on. So goes the addict. Starts with pot. Moves on to something more serious, and eventually ends up strung out on the heavy stuff.

I am an advocate for legalizing all drugs. Don't get me wrong. But I also recognize the addiction. I think I was attempting to point out that not everyone is in control of their indulgence. I know a lot of people, myself included, that think they are in control of their vices. They justify it by citing examples that I have used. They mask it by saying the very things that you have stated.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#5777 - 03/16/08 02:21 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: fakepropht]
TheMask Offline
member


Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 130
Yes yes, i understand what you mean. I got the feeling that you were quite the opposite when it comes to drugs but i also had a small thought that maybe that wasnt the case.

Edited by TheMask (03/16/08 02:21 PM)

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#6168 - 03/22/08 02:25 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ta2zz]
NYCLeather Offline
lurker


Registered: 03/22/08
Posts: 2
Drugs are really not my game. Been high a few times and didn't see the point to it all. But I have used other 'distractions' that numbed my mind out in similar ways. For example, I've played video games for hours on end, which I swear has led to an altered state of consciousness.

But I now try to avoid these things. I figure it's better to spend the time sorting out what I really want in life and figuring out the best way to get it. I know that sounds so left brained, but looking back on my life, the most fun times were when I accomplished something.

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#49273 - 02/21/11 01:38 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Rather than looking at drug use as an indulgence or stupidity issue, rather this activity is a crutch that some people need to get them through life, give them confidence, meaning, subjective stimulation. Most will gather with likened dependents and bloat their subjective experiences to one another through inane drivel to solidify their feeble infrastructure and give meaning to their hollow lives.

However, to deeply fuck with somebodies mind whilst they are on A class drugs is quite stimulating for a Sinister individual, knowing that you are causing immense emotional trauma is intimate and humorous, severe, and sobering in an esoteric way that only the Sinister can conceive.
_________________________


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#49277 - 02/21/11 02:22 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Hegesias]
Clicks Offline
member


Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 114
Loc: New Orleans
I once had a friend in El Paso who held his weed in very high esteem. He, after a while, turned into your stereotypical, lazy, no job, school failure, because he was high every chance he got. He liked to do the whole thing with bragging about how weed helps open your mind, and gets you to think in new ways. In short, he thought he was a genius because of the stupid shit he said when he was high.

On one particular day, whilst he was smoking, and I just happened to show up at his house where him and some of his friends were smoking, they all started discussing reality. I don't remember the details, but it truly was stupid, religious shit, made more absurd with the use of their pot. I decided I wanted to fuck with them. I didn't make any legit points, as was not my intention. I made them question everything they were saying, and kept hinting that reality was really more mundane than they actually thought it was and that they were destroying their own sense of reality by their use of pot. Of course, I got the, 'Nah, man, but it ain't like that!" and other such responses, but the more I kept pushing, the more open minded, and then gullible they became. In the end I had them convinced that their pot smoking was destroying their 'tangible' existence. I left that house full of 6 depressed dope-heads. One of the more fun moments of my life.

I do believe drugs can help you to think in different, more creative ways, but when they are done in strict moderation. They may help you more easily feel the range of emotions that derive from fear and love, and their resonance frequencies can in turn help you do to more right brain thinking.

I don't have a problem with drugs. I have a problem with the people who center their lives around them, and eventually may cause others harm because of it. Simply for the fact that I prefer to live the majority of my social life in the objective universe where knowledge is abundant, I do not respect the person who willingly restricts themselves to the subjective with drug abuse. There is equal need for both, but when your whole enjoyment of life revolves around inefficient altered states of consciousness, and you are very unproductive, I cannot give you respect, simply because your life does not meet my values. But as long as no one other than the user is being hurt, then to each their own.
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#49317 - 02/21/11 08:20 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Hegesias]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Rather than looking at drug use as an indulgence or stupidity issue, rather this activity is a crutch that some people need to get them through life, give them confidence, meaning, subjective stimulation.


Not everyone uses them as a crutch. For some people it truly is just another indulgence, another way to enjoy life.

 Quote:
However, to deeply fuck with somebodies mind whilst they are on A class drugs is quite stimulating for a Sinister individual, knowing that you are causing immense emotional trauma is intimate and humorous, severe, and sobering in an esoteric way that only the Sinister can conceive.


That can also backfire and end up being a very stupid thing to do. You don't know what someone can be capable of when they are, quite literally, out of their fucking mind.
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#49338 - 02/22/11 12:03 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: fakepropht]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: fakepropht
Corn has become a hot commodity these days. With the sudden interest in ethanol as a substitute fuel. It is the new gold or oil. It's popularity has caused a sharp increase in the price of groceries. Everything from fries to beer include a form of corn in their ingredients. Again, I don't know dick about growing crops in that area. But, I would hazard a guess that growing corn instead of poppies would and could replace the gain. In the drug world, the person sourcing the very basic product rarely makes out like a bandit. It is the person on the street peddling it that makes the most profit. The farmer in the Middle East or in Bolivia makes very little for his crop. It isn't until it is harvested, refined, cut, shipped to the middle man, cut further, and given to the street hussler that the profits are made. Corn doesn't have to go through the process. It is legal and sold at far market value. Which today, is very high.


I know you meant this as an alternative suggestion for crop growing in a country that is laden with drug production and it's all well and good. However, there's a very basic problem in the line of thinking when it comes to growing corn. Although the price has shot up because of "bio-fuels" corn is very taxing on the earth. When a farmer plants corn, the following years, that land must be used for other crops. Depending on how many times corn has been planted in that same field can hinder other crops from growing well, if at all. Whether it’s corn for food or "field" corn (think animal feeds and bio-fuels) the corn draws incredible amounts of nutrients from the ground. If corn is grown too long in a field, over too many years, even with alternating the crops from year to year, it can leave a field completely drained of nutrients to grow. Over fertilization to continue growing corn can be just as damaging. Not to mention the chemicals/hormones that then goes into the food chain. It's a viscous circle and one of the primary reasons there aren't substantial amounts of bio-fuels readily on the market today. It's also one of the reasons I hate the big oil companies for perpetuating their long standing "bio-fuel research" funds, which is just a farce for deterring their huge profits without having to pay taxes on those profits. They know they can't mass-produce enough corn without causing even more severe issues. And our government knows this as well. This is why "bio-fuels" aren't necessarily a "better" investment to good 'ole drilling for oil.

There's really not a crop out there that produces the same base cost/return value, as do "drugs", whether they be for the illegal drug trade or for pharmaceutical purposes.

The only plants that can even compare in cost/return value are perennials, trees and shrubs and then the US runs the risk of insect and disease infections that could devastate so much more. That's been proven by things like Dutch Elm disease and recently a disease that is taking over evergreens, the Austrian Pine seeming to be one of possibly many hosts to the disease.

I'm not trying to diminish your suggestion Fakepropht, just stating facts that can be easily found and something to consider as well. I like the idea of there being something "else" the drug farmers can grow, but I don't see any real alternative that could come even close to be as productive and profitable for the farmer.

I've tried my share of drugs and alcohol. From time to time I enjoy a good drunk on and wouldn't mind having the means for a good "trip" or two, but the simple fact of the matter is that I like my life, my family and belongings so much more. I have an "addictive personality" proven by my shopoholic mother and obsessive dry drunk father and the fact that I've had my binges along the way. I've learned to temper those urges, and splurge on vises that can be productive, not only financially but also rewarding within my own family and friend circle. That was my own path though.

I feel that drugs should be legalized and those that have addictions to any drug, including alcohol, should not be allowed to collect SSI because of said addiction either. They choose to indulge in their addiction, they shouldn't get a hand out because of it. There are far more people that really do need SSI and can't get it because of things like this. It's disgusting.

If illegal drugs are legalized I won't be someone to work in that store, that's for sure. What's manifested in the "drug community" is not what I would consider a stable mentality, at all. I can see enjoying something from time to time, but for the dedicated addict, it can be a lot more than just enjoying. I'm not one to have the want of dealing with such individuals though. I'd probably be at risk of hurting someone, just because I don't tolerate stupidity well.
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#49382 - 02/22/11 03:50 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Nyte]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I'm going to quote myself here since I gave an opinion upon drugs in the past and c/p is much easier than retyping it all.

Consider drugs as a loaded gun. Some will use it to their advantage or pleasure, some will shoot others or themselves but not until they use the gun, they will find out what type they are. Of course, others won't use the gun at all.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I am pro drugs; nothing should be forbidden at that level, no matter what type or kind of drug, and it should be a normal consumer product, available to the public just like anything else.

Many oppose this idea but knowing the World of Weakness pretty well, it got me thinking a while back and as a result, even changed my approach. At times we dream of a weapon or virus which would eliminate the weak and only make the strong survive. It's one of those daydreams which are pretty hard to realize. How are you even going to decide who is weak or strong is one of the very problems attached to it. The solution is actually very simple. Let them decide it for themselves. Let everything that can cause addiction be available out there under the principle of responsibility to the responsible. Let those that can handle it enjoy it and those that can't, eliminate themselves; let them sink down the social level or eliminate themselves when they are weak enough. In doing so, you give people the opportunity to decide for themselves how far they want to take things or how much they can handle and at the same time, you clean up the gene pool and move the undesired toward the lower caste they were destined to be in to begin with.

It's time we kick the saints of their pedestal and put the dealers and pushers on it.


D.

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#49389 - 02/22/11 04:37 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Diavolo]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
LOL! Excellent post!

Diavolo, this is EXACTLY what I have been preaching for years! I even told my kids this very thing while they were growing up. At the time I hadn't realized how perfectly Satanic it was when I came up with this philosophy, as I was a Christian at the time (which proves I was a Satanist even then!).

As the years rolled by and I climbed out of the bucket of slime that is Christianity - kicking away those pesky relatives who clung to my ankles in an effort to impede my escape - my philosophy about drugs and all things 'harmful' solidified. I became a Libertarian and preached to others about the evils of legalism and the need for freedom to do whatever we wish even if it kills us. Smart people will learn about the perils of overindulgence and smart parents will teach their kids to be wise and discerning. Dumb, weak and apathetic people will succumb to the temptations and quickly do themselves in - hopefully, before they reproduce. Good riddance. All they do is parasitize society and use up valuable resources.

As a nutritionist, I counseled cancer patients for several years about the benefit of a healthy diet, exercise and supplementation. 8 out of 10 people refused to change their diets, including some who NEVER ate vegetables, ever. Some were addicted to soda and others were addicted to sugar or tobacco, and most refused to give up their addiction even though there was a chance they could turn things around and save themselves. Some wanted information about certain treatments but refused to read a book containing the information. They were lazy and weak, and I used to tell them not to come back and waste anymore of my time. Fuck-em. I didn't care if they died. The only ones I cared about were the ones who were doing everything in their power to save themselves. I enjoyed working with them because they were fighters and most of them are still alive today because of it. The others just wanted someone to feel sorry for them and give them a magic pill so they could go home and watch Oprah. You wouldn't believe some of the sob-story-excuses I heard from them, how they didn't know that eating big macks and fries 3 times a day would give them high blood pressure, cancer, gout, etc.... blah blah blah...... ignorance is not excuse. Wake up or die.
_________________________
I spit on your crapulous creeds.
Let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!


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#49413 - 02/22/11 09:40 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: LucyFur]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
Nyte's right about corn laying waste to whatever land is used to grow it. There's also the transportation issue. Coca and opium are viable crops because they can be purified and shipped as a compact amount of white powder pretty easily. The rinky-dink roads in South America would be a tough place to transport huge shipments of corn, bananas, chrysanthemums, or whatever else we've been suggesting as replacement crops. Getting enough pack animals and carts to pull it would also be a hassle. Turning corn into corn meal, corn starch, high fructose corn syrup, ethanol, etc is a much more involved process than refining heroin or cocaine from their root crops. The profitability of corn is based on a lot of domestic subsidies that aren't necessarily applicable south of the border. Tariffs make it tough to import corn if you're not a US-based company.
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#49451 - 02/23/11 10:31 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Diavolo]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
Diavolo, I like your idea and yet at the same time it worries me. As a parent of a 20 year old and a 9 year old, I see what the mentality of our younger generation has become when it comes to things like drugs and "gang" violence. I don't live in the hood by any means, but that mentality has readily trickled down to the youth here. My oldest has experimented, that is a fact. However, he talked to me about it afterwards and made it clear that he feels it wasn't worth it for many reasons, the primary being the mentality that followed with the group he was running with. I expected it and spoke at length with him, even to the point of telling him about some of the things I've done. My youngest has NO desire to even try them, as of the time being. He's got his eye on a huge pie in the sky and doesn't seem to be deterred by things that could disrupt that. I'll have to wait and see if that changes as he grows up, and either way, I will be there for him as well.

One thing that does bother me about drugs becoming legal is that not everyone has an opportunity to talk about what the drugs do and how people react to them. Someone that can keep a level head and perhaps persuade them to rethink throwing that money and time away on something that never again seems to reach that first experience. I've seen some brilliant people throw away years doing drugs thinking it was what they needed and it took years to climb out of that trap. After those years of getting themselves together the doctors put them onto the path of pharmaceuticals, an additional money machine that doesn't fix the underlying problem/s.

It's preached in schools not to do drugs and then they tell these kids they have this or that, only to prescribe a drug for their problems. And the nation wonders why there's a drug "problem"?

The mentality that follows with the illegal drugs can and usually does become incredibly unstable and legalizing them can put everyone at risk, even those that don't have a "hand in them". As much as I like the idea of legalizing them for several reasons, I don't like it for almost the exact same number of reasons, if not more. It's a double edge sword, something our society doesn't seem to be ready to handle at our current level of thinking.

Do I think it would weed out those not worthy? Hell yes. It would definitely give our economy one hell of a boost as well, not to mention the savings on the "War on Drug" programs. On the flip side of that, I think a lot of laws would have to change so that an American citizen could seriously protect themselves at any given time, not just in their homes or vehicles. It would put us, as a society, onto a level I don't think many are ready to handle, simply because of the type of drugs that are now out there. The addictive personalities run rapid and to fuel them through legalizing drugs may not have the end result that would be worth the legalization.

It would be one thing if the local stoner stayed home and ate his way through the 6 or 8 pies, but from what I’ve seen, they don’t anymore. I stayed home when I did those kinds of things, simply because I could never get to the 6 or 8 pies! I was asleep by the third hit. Energy drinks and additional drugs (like crack) now put the local stoner into overdrive and send them running to the store for whatever they can find, putting many other people at risk that aren’t even close to being a part of the equation.

I don't think we're ready, by a long shot.
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#49456 - 02/23/11 12:12 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Nyte]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
The 'War on Drugs' is a joke, like the 'War on Cancer' and the 'War on Heart Disease'. It is an excuse to throw money into programs that don't work so the politicians can say they did something. And the irony of it is that it creates bureaucracies that depend on cancer, heart disease and drug use in order to feed it. The only winners are the people profiting off of it.

If all drugs were legal and easy to get, the crime rate would drop, not rise. people wouldn't have to rob, carjack, mug or steel from others because the product would be cheap. In fact, I think they should take all that money they spend on the idiocracy that is the 'War on Drugs' and buy drugs with it, distribute the drugs to whoever wants them and provide a place for them to take them. This would quickly eliminate the majority of the problem by weeding out the weak and stupid. Think of it as assisted suicide, or better - assisting people in accomplishing their will.

Nyte, your kids are smart because you are smart. You obviously take the time to communicate with and teach your children. My kids experimented too and they are all doing well because they had the good sense and self knowledge to know what and how much to try. And they told me all about it as well because we have a good relationship and they know I won't go off on them for being human. My eldest son, who experimented the most, is well on his way to making his first million before the age of 30. My 17 year old tried pot and didn't like it. He is bi-polar and smart enough to know he doesn't need to fuck up his head with unknown substances. My youngest is too busy loving life to give it a thought. Why? because mama and daddy don't fuck up their heads with religion and guilt. They are happy to be who they are.

Unfortunately, that is not how the rest of society is. We have coddled the weak and stupid for generations, not only allowing them to breed, but encouraging it by rewarding them. It's time to stop trying to protect people from themselves. It is time to stop taking responsibility for others and let them take responsibility for themselves.
_________________________
I spit on your crapulous creeds.
Let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!


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#49457 - 02/23/11 12:23 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: LucyFur]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
"War on drugs" is the best thing that can happen to anyone involved in the drug trade. It sounds as sweet to them as "oil shortage" to an Arab.

Making them illegal or not doesn't differ much at the level of supply. The demand is still there and if there is demand, there will always be supply. As such, legal or not will not have any effect on kids trying them. To the contrary, often it being illegal has an even stronger lure.

When sex before marriage was a sin, weren't there plenty of sinners?

D.

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#49486 - 02/24/11 12:51 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Diavolo]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
And lots more unwanted pregnancies too!

Yes, I think a lot of it is the mystique of it being illegal, much like alcohol and the drinking age.

My kids are allowed to drink small amounts of alcohol and they don't see what the big deal is. I grew up drinking wine with dinner and don't have a problem with alcohol. Those kids that overdose on alcohol on college campuses probably cant' handle it because it is new to them and they didn't understand it's effects and their lack of tolerance.
_________________________
I spit on your crapulous creeds.
Let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!


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#49509 - 02/24/11 05:59 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: LucyFur]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
I have to agree with LucyFur and Diavolo. I don't think there's anyone out there who's thinking, "Gee, I'd like to smoke some weed, if only it were legal!" Anyone who wants to mess with their head isn't going to be deterred by legality. According to Frontline, in Holland (where pot is legal), 20% of the population reports having tried it. In the US, it's 38%. As Diavolo pointed out, the illegality of the drug trade makes it lucrative; people who normally wouldn't get involved for drugs' sakes end up in it for the money.

I agree that smart parents are the key. I'm not a parent myself, but I had some of the best parents imaginable. They always taught me right, put up with me when I was a dumb teenager, protected me from myself just enough to protect my future while still learning from the natural consequences of my mistakes, and instilled me with a sense of personal responsibility. I hope I can follow their act.
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#49519 - 02/24/11 11:41 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
natanielewsky Offline
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Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 4
Loc: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Drug use is for stupidity, for sure. Of course it starts as an indulgence, but as soon as you are depending on drugs you are no more free do decide about using or not. This is not indulgence enymore. Indulgence means you're free to choose your pleasures, not that you're a slave of them.
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#49523 - 02/24/11 12:11 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: natanielewsky]
natanielewsky Offline
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Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 4
Loc: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Oooops! Anymore *
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#49524 - 02/24/11 12:15 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
natanielewsky Offline
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Registered: 02/24/11
Posts: 4
Loc: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Agreed! Making drugs illegal won't stop drug use. Besides, there is no law against stupitidy, is there?


Please refrain from one line posts, they are deeply frowned upon to say the least. Morgan


Edited by Morgan (02/24/11 10:34 PM)
Edit Reason: warning/information
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#49620 - 02/25/11 02:24 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: LucyFur]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: LucyFur
The 'War on Drugs' is a joke, like the 'War on Cancer' and the 'War on Heart Disease'. It is an excuse to throw money into programs that don't work so the politicians can say they did something. And the irony of it is that it creates bureaucracies that depend on cancer, heart disease and drug use in order to feed it. The only winners are the people profiting off of it.


I completely agree that the war on drugs is utter bullshit. However, as much as I'd like to agree about the "war on cancer", I can't. See this is my drawing line. Cancer happens for several reason to include genetics, something that can not be controled. Addiction to drugs can be controled. There is a HUGE difference. At least with the money that does goes into fighting cancer the researchers try to find a cure. The War on Drugs isn't changing a damn thing when it comes to controling the amount of drugs that actually make it into the US. They make one bust while 5 more go right on by. not to mention, pull one dealer out and 5 more move in to make the cash.

 Originally Posted By: LucyFur
If all drugs were legal and easy to get, the crime rate would drop, not rise. people wouldn't have to rob, carjack, mug or steel from others because the product would be cheap. In fact, I think they should take all that money they spend on the idiocracy that is the 'War on Drugs' and buy drugs with it, distribute the drugs to whoever wants them and provide a place for them to take them. This would quickly eliminate the majority of the problem by weeding out the weak and stupid. Think of it as assisted suicide, or better - assisting people in accomplishing their will.


I think your missing one small piece to your puzzle though. See, with the current price of drugs, do you really think the government won't find a way to keep the price up there and take the biggest piece of the pie? If you really think they're going to make drugs legal and then let the price fall below current market value, you're not thinking this through all the way. Also, instead of robbing an empty house, now they'll have 2 to 3 times more motivation to rob the local store that carries the crap. Just because the drugs become legal doesn't mean crime rates will drop.

And fuck giving them a place to do the drugs. They all ready give them SSI for being addicts. Let them spend their SSI on their own places to stay.

 Originally Posted By: LucyFur
Nyte, your kids are smart because you are smart. You obviously take the time to communicate with and teach your children. My kids experimented too and they are all doing well because they had the good sense and self knowledge to know what and how much to try. And they told me all about it as well because we have a good relationship and they know I won't go off on them for being human. My eldest son, who experimented the most, is well on his way to making his first million before the age of 30. My 17 year old tried pot and didn't like it. He is bi-polar and smart enough to know he doesn't need to fuck up his head with unknown substances. My youngest is too busy loving life to give it a thought. Why? because mama and daddy don't fuck up their heads with religion and guilt. They are happy to be who they are.


Thank you LucyFur. We've both been fortunate enough to raise our children as we've seen fit, even through the good and the bad times. Not always is it like that though.

 Originally Posted By: LucyFur
Unfortunately, that is not how the rest of society is. We have coddled the weak and stupid for generations, not only allowing them to breed, but encouraging it by rewarding them. It's time to stop trying to protect people from themselves. It is time to stop taking responsibility for others and let them take responsibility for themselves.


I agree for the most part. However, I'm not ready to wonder if one of my son's friends are going to come to my house jacked up on crack just because it's "legal". At least right now, they know how I feel about it and don't ever come here wasted. Has he had friends come here and drink? Yeah, they're old enough and gave me their car keys. I don't care what people do behind their own closed doors. The problem is, they just don't stay there anymore, and the results may not be exactly as you picture them to be. If drugs, or cancer, or even heart disease were to affect one of yours would you think a bit differently?

I know, I'm playing devil's advocate right now. I have to, because, you see, my oldest son has Cystic Fibrosis. I'm not saying that to garner sympathy. I'm telling you so that you understand I've seen up close what the up side and the down side is to this topic, including the pharmacutical side. A teen on steriods for his lungs was enough to make me re-think some of my standings. I've also seen a young man (a close friend of my son) and another good friend of ours use pot to ease the pain from cancer. As much as I'd like to whole heartedly agree 100%, I don't know if I can.
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#49631 - 02/25/11 07:30 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Nyte]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Nyte
I'm not ready to wonder if one of my son's friends are going to come to my house jacked up on crack just because it's "legal".


That's another issue. People use, abuse, and deal legal drugs as well. I had an ex who dealt coke, and he dealt Xanax right alongside it. I saw a PSA that said most drug abuse is of legal drugs, and I don't doubt it. Many young people who wouldn't dream of touching crack I've seen are lulled into abusing pharmaceuticals, assuming that because doctors prescribe them (though not to them) they must be safe.
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#49693 - 02/25/11 02:21 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17
That's another issue. People use, abuse, and deal legal drugs as well. I had an ex who dealt coke, and he dealt Xanax right alongside it. I saw a PSA that said most drug abuse is of legal drugs, and I don't doubt it. Many young people who wouldn't dream of touching crack I've seen are lulled into abusing pharmaceuticals, assuming that because doctors prescribe them (though not to them) they must be safe.


I've seen it all too many times. The circle of drugs are large and wide including all too many additives. As much as I like the idea of making drugs legal for the very reason to "weed out the weak" and possibly bring down crime rates, I just don't see it happening quite like that. I don't think it'll change much at all, and perhaps could even increase it. Could we hope that they just kill off each other, if they're going to be that stupid? Yeah, that would be nice and before producing might not be such a bad thing either. However, that coin can be just as easily flipped and could very well be an even bigger drain on everyone that doesn't over-indulge (think: being productive citizens).

I don't know what the exact answer is, and I'm able to admit that completely. I can only maintain hope that if drugs like coke are legalized, the ball isn't dropped, so to speak.
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#49703 - 02/25/11 02:48 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Nyte]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
 Originally Posted By: Nyte


I completely agree that the war on drugs is utter bullshit. However, as much as I'd like to agree about the "war on cancer", I can't. See this is my drawing line. Cancer happens for several reason to include genetics, something that can not be controled. Addiction to drugs can be controled. There is a HUGE difference. At least with the money that does goes into fighting cancer the researchers try to find a cure. The War on Drugs isn't changing a damn thing when it comes to controling the amount of drugs that actually make it into the US. They make one bust while 5 more go right on by. not to mention, pull one dealer out and 5 more move in to make the cash.


The war on cancer is not working because the American government and pharmaceutical cartel do not want it to work. Cancer is a multi-billion dollar business and growing. Cancer is an epidemic in this country and the causes are multifactorial. However, there are proven cures that don't involved spending vast amounts of money and being slashed, burned and poisoned by conventional means. The only problem is every time someone discovers an effective treatment they are either jailed, banished from the country or killed.

I have counseled cancer patients for 12 years. The ones who make it are the ones who adopt a healthy lifestyle, not the ones who have their immune systems destroyed by toxic chemicals and radiation. If anyone in my family were to get cancer, I would immediately put them on a plane for Germany or somewhere that offers effective alternative treatments because here in 'The Land of the Free' we are NOT FREE to make an informed choice about cancer treatment.

When in doubt, follow the money.



 Originally Posted By: Nyte

I think your missing one small piece to your puzzle though. See, with the current price of drugs, do you really think the government won't find a way to keep the price up there and take the biggest piece of the pie? If you really think they're going to make drugs legal and then let the price fall below current market value, you're not thinking this through all the way. Also, instead of robbing an empty house, now they'll have 2 to 3 times more motivation to rob the local store that carries the crap. Just because the drugs become legal doesn't mean crime rates will drop.


This is why I said the government should take some of the money they are wasting on the worthless drug war and use it to give or subsidize them for those who want them. As people die off, usage will decline. And this would take the money and the power away from the cartels, thus reducing crime. But you are right, this will never happen because the government already IS the biggest drug supplier. That is how they fund their black ops.

 Originally Posted By: Nyte



I agree for the most part. However, I'm not ready to wonder if one of my son's friends are going to come to my house jacked up on crack just because it's "legal". At least right now, they know how I feel about it and don't ever come here wasted. Has he had friends come here and drink? Yeah, they're old enough and gave me their car keys. I don't care what people do behind their own closed doors. The problem is, they just don't stay there anymore, and the results may not be exactly as you picture them to be. If drugs, or cancer, or even heart disease were to affect one of yours would you think a bit differently?



Do you wonder if your kid's friends are jacked up on coke now? You seem like an intelligent person, so you would likely be able to tell if some kid comes over fucked up on drugs. As a parent, of a second set of teens, not much gets past me and my kids know it. This is good as they respect me and themselves. They wouldn't even try to bring that element around me.

As a parent of a kid with bi-polar disorder, I completely understand where you are coming from. I have a love/hate relationship with the drug companies! Can't live with-em and can't live without-em. I try to balance the best of both allopathic and holistic worlds by educating myself and taking responsibility for my own and my family's health.
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#49710 - 02/25/11 02:55 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
 Originally Posted By: XiaoGui17


That's another issue. People use, abuse, and deal legal drugs as well. I had an ex who dealt coke, and he dealt Xanax right alongside it. I saw a PSA that said most drug abuse is of legal drugs, and I don't doubt it. Many young people who wouldn't dream of touching crack I've seen are lulled into abusing pharmaceuticals, assuming that because doctors prescribe them (though not to them) they must be safe.


So true! And they think those drugs are safer because they are legal. When in reality you can easily overdose on both prescription and even over the counter drugs such as Tylenol. In fact Tylenol is so dangerous I never allowed my kids to take it.


Edited by LucyFur (02/25/11 02:56 PM)
_________________________
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#49749 - 02/25/11 04:51 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: LucyFur]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: LucyFur
The war on cancer is not working because the American government and pharmaceutical cartel do not want it to work. Cancer is a multi-billion dollar business and growing. Cancer is an epidemic in this country and the causes are multifactorial. However, there are proven cures that don't involved spending vast amounts of money and being slashed, burned and poisoned by conventional means. The only problem is every time someone discovers an effective treatment they are either jailed, banished from the country or killed.

I have counseled cancer patients for 12 years. The ones who make it are the ones who adopt a healthy lifestyle, not the ones who have their immune systems destroyed by toxic chemicals and radiation. If anyone in my family were to get cancer, I would immediately put them on a plane for Germany or somewhere that offers effective alternative treatments because here in 'The Land of the Free' we are NOT FREE to make an informed choice about cancer treatment.

When in doubt, follow the money.


We've talked about this as a family, should my oldest ever need extensive treatment and I think we'd probably follow along the same lines as you. I've been encourged lately to hear about some pretty incredible treatments for CF, not only here in the US, but overseas the last few years. So we know there's things out there that could help extensively but I also know that it doesn't mean he might be cured. That's the reality of CF. They can take out the "bad" and possibly replace it with good, but it doesn't take away CF as a whole and additional problems can arise. Time will tell how far they can actually go with "curing" CF, and right now, we still have that time.

I've also watched those that have "cleaned up" their lifestyles (because of cancer) succumb to genetics too, though. The cancer went into remission and then came back with a vengence. It wasn't fun to watch, by a long shot.

 Originally Posted By: LucyFur
This is why I said the government should take some of the money they are wasting on the worthless drug war and use it to give or subsidize them for those who want them. As people die off, usage will decline. And this would take the money and the power away from the cartels, thus reducing crime. But you are right, this will never happen because the government already IS the biggest drug supplier. That is how they fund their black ops.


Thank you for going into further detail. It helped solidify your point of view better. I like it and there's not much to add. You're completely right about the government too.

 Originally Posted By: LucyFur
Do you wonder if your kid's friends are jacked up on coke now? You seem like an intelligent person, so you would likely be able to tell if some kid comes over fucked up on drugs. As a parent, of a second set of teens, not much gets past me and my kids know it. This is good as they respect me and themselves. They wouldn't even try to bring that element around me.

As a parent of a kid with bi-polar disorder, I completely understand where you are coming from. I have a love/hate relationship with the drug companies! Can't live with-em and can't live without-em. I try to balance the best of both allopathic and holistic worlds by educating myself and taking responsibility for my own and my family's health.


Here they all know how I feel about drugs, simply because of my youngest, and to date, they've all been respectful. I'm open with all of them about things like this, so I suspect that may have something to do with it too. It's good to be a strong parent.

The highlight is myself to a "T". I see what good it's done for my oldest, especially when he was first diagnosed. After almost 6 months of trying to figure out why he wasn't growing, staying up all night because he was starving no matter what food he was given, all of it. Then to find out what was wrong and the meds helping immensely, yet to see what I've seen on the "other" side. Yeah, it leaves that love/hate right where it's at.

Thanks for keeping my thoughts in check and even driving more thinking. It's good to have that from time to time. \:\)
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#49783 - 02/25/11 11:34 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Nyte]
LucyFur Offline
member


Registered: 02/06/11
Posts: 122
Loc: Bible Belt, USA
I posted this in a private message but feel it may be beneficial here as well.

We went through hell for about 3 years because my son was ok one day then had a psychotic episode the next. He was 14 years old when it started. We took him to the family doc for tests and even though he was tested for mononucleosis it came back as a false negative so we had no idea why he was suddenly sleeping for 18 hours a day and extremely violent when he was awake. To make a long story short, we spent well over $20,000. in tests, psychiatrists (we found the only holistic psychiatrist in the Midwest but it cost us dearly), DNA tests, MRI (to check for a brain tumor), and nothing showed up until he got an upper GI to check for parasites and allergies. The gastroenterologist told us he had mono recently and that is when we realized it triggered the psychotic episodes (rare side effect of mono). But when the mono ran its course (one whole year) he was still depressed and we noticed he would get really hateful during every full moon. During this time the shrink had him on all kinds of nutritional supplements but my son lost patience and wouldn't give them a chance to work.

Eventually, I realized he was bi-polar and took him to the family doc and told him. At that point, my son was suicidal and I was staying up all night watching him to make sure he didn't kill himself. At that point we tried all the supplements but he was not getting any better so I gave in and let him try Abilify. It was like a miracle. He still gets a little edgy during the full moon but not suicidal. He missed his entire freshman year of high school because of the mono/bi-polar disorder but now he makes straight 'A's' and is looking forward to going to Purdue University. He is very bright, declaring himself a Satanist after reading the Satanic Bible and making a plan for his life.

I refused to give up on him, going into his room day and night to hold his hand and tell him not to give up on himself. During those times he would be curled up in a ball staring at the wall, unresponsive. It was scary as all hell to see him almost catatonic. Yet, when he was lucid he attacked us so many times during that first year that I had to take my youngest son and move out for a while for his safety.

I am sooooo glad those violent days are over! I HATE being dependent on drugs but in this case, it may have saved his life.


Nyte - Last year in my microbiology class I read about gene therapy for CF. You probably need to go to Europe or somewhere more progressive because the FDA takes so long to approve new treatments. What they do is insert the missing gene into some stem cells they remove from the patient, then they inject the altered stem cells so they will produce cells with the corrected gene. They have been doing this for Sickle cell patients too.
_________________________
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Let all chaste women be utterly despised among you!


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#49789 - 02/26/11 12:36 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: LucyFur]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
LucyFur, I know what you mean. The oldest was pretty drawn back for a while too during his teens, but part of that was because the ADHD meds didn't work any more (hormone changes tend to do that) and the steroids for his lungs only threw his normal hormones off the hook. He got really down for quite a while too, though not as bad as yours seems to have gone through. I was fortunate enough to find a doc close that got his mood swings under control with a few quick changes in foods (which was difficult to do because of his nutritional needs) and just one medication on a very low dose. I saw the signs long before they got way out of hand, simply because I had gone through it growing up myself, only surviving because I knew at graduation (all of 17) I could in fact get out of the situation that was completely draining me. Now, though, he thrives here at home in a calm family unit, paying rent, his own bills and now testing his hand at airbrushing for extra cash. For the first time in a long time, I see him becoming really proud of the things he creates, which is really excellent to watch. He's developing some mad airbrushing skills too! All without the depression meds which is huge.

As for the CF treatment you're talking about, we've talked to his doctor about it and from what the understanding is right now, that very treatment only works in pre-teen age children. The development came over from Sweden I believe and to date, they are trying to develop it far enough to be able to do that same treatment in adult CF patients but they're not having much luck. The closest they've got to that right now for adults is a gene replacement therapy that's an inhalant that's coming up in a final study this summer. He won't be able to participate in the study because his lungs are too good, at around 107% oxygen intake. He's participated in several studies over the years, primarily for pancreatic meds that are now on the market and he uses daily. He also participated in the nebulizer med study for Pulmozyme before it was released, which he's still on today. His primary issue is his pancreas/digestive system though. He's currently in with the best clinic in the US that a CF patient can be in, facilitating the most studies on the new meds from all over the world. We changed doctors when my son was about 10 because I was finding information on the web that his doctors then weren't telling us. It pissed me off and that's when we found the clinic he now goes to.

I keep a close watch on what's happening around the globe when it comes to gene therapies, because I know once one opens up with a definite cure (that will help both children and adults), it will blow the top off of the news for most genetic disorders. The studies are close, and it's only a matter of time. We’re fortunate to have that time because his health is good right now. If that were to change, I’d be traveling the globe getting him the help he would need.

I hate to say it, because this has been an interesting discussion, but now we need to let this thread get back to topic. My appreciation to the Mods and 600C members for letting us have this bit of thread drift.
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#49935 - 02/26/11 05:52 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
mike616joaquin Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 8
Loc: London, England
What is your definition of a "drug"?? As far as compounds affecting you mentally or physically, investigating a toxicity report will I'm sure open the mind. I use LSD/MDMA/DMT and mushrooms, as and when I feel like it. Has it "harmed" me? I don't think so, have I gained a further insight into reality and other subjects? In my opinion, yes. As Morgan said, these compounds are tools. If your pro-drug that's fine, if you think it's pointless indulgence, fine.

I don't see what we can gain by going round in circles with this.

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#70960 - 09/17/12 04:04 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: mike616joaquin]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
I may consider drug use as "stupidity" on a personal level. I do not use such substances. Conversely, I find the "war on drugs" to be a futile exercise (as several posters have mentioned). It is an infringement of the civil liberties of even non-users. I say this irregardless of possible government motive.

Indulgence or stupidity? It could be either.. Legalize it. Let people bear responsibility directly. If it is a mere indulgence to some, great. If not, may we get the government out of the business altogether. I believe a lot of talented people go down this path. As a political compromise, I might support some degree of rehabilitation programs. Ultimately, I'll leave to each their own.
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#70968 - 09/17/12 08:47 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Le Deluge]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
member


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
The difference in using versus abusing drugs is usually the difference maker in rather ones habit can be deemed stupid. Yes it is stupid to go check to check getting high to no avail. But you know if someone wants to take their hard earned money and catch a good feeling, then who the hell is anyone to say they are wrong? The answer is that yes you reserve the right to speak your peace against someones drug habits if their habit costs you peace, money or endangers your safety or freedom. This could be someone riding in your car with a bag of weed or your roommate sniffing coke in yalls home. Not to mention people that use drugs may not be as responsible with their money and are not good to get in the money wheel with. Not only can their habit cost them financially, it tends to cost them psychologically and leads to poor decision making. I have seen people transform on drugs, truthfully speaking some for the better and others for the worse. Drugs are always a risk, regardless of the amount or type, so to each at his own peril.

Edited by LeftHandonFeet (09/17/12 08:47 PM)
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#70973 - 09/18/12 03:37 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Le Deluge]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
Drug use only becomes stupidity when trying new ones which are way beyond a persons level of tolerance and ability to cope with the side-effects. Most addicts are a result of trying too fast new "harder" drugs which gave them such an experience they want more to re-achieve the same feeling or state of being.

When it comes down to it, there's a certain responsability as a user in which your own borders have to be found and a certain backbone has to be shown to moderate. Drugs are like a train, if all warnings are ignored and it's going to fast you'll surely get off tracks before reaching the next station.
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#71760 - 10/11/12 01:52 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
Daemon of Lust Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/24/12
Posts: 14
Loc: California
I've been smoking for about three years now, but its not a compulsion. I smoke about twice a month (pot) with a few close friends. We sit down, watch a movie or two, and eat some snacks. I think that indulgences such as that have no real negative effect, atleast from what i can tell. its fine as long as you dont rely on it.

Edited by Daemon of Lust (10/11/12 01:54 AM)
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#72482 - 11/03/12 07:36 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
Tropix Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/23/10
Posts: 16
Loc: Minneapolis
Drugs are medicine, be it for healing, learning, recreation, or relief from despair. They need to be managed not only by the users but also society. We don't need crackhead bath salts face eater roaming the streets. Drug use needs knowledge behind it. Stupidity comes when that knowledge is absent. As with guns, to hell with personal responsibility if drugs are put in the hands of a reckless citizen. As with religion, to hell with personal choice if drug use preys on individuals before they're smart enough to understand the thing.
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#72511 - 11/04/12 10:33 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Tropix]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
You just took away the freedom of personal choice on three things at once in your post.

"Drugs are medicine, be it for healing, learning, recreation, or relief from despair. They need to be managed not only by the users but also society. We don't need crackhead bath salts face eater roaming the streets."

Define drug. Aspirin, caffeine, alcohol, etc are just as much a drug as something like crack. The only difference is that society says some are okay to use or even be addicted to and some are not.

By the way, the face eating man was not on bath salts, the only thing that showed up in his system was marijuana.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5...-in-his-system/

"As with guns, to hell with personal responsibility if drugs are put in the hands of a reckless citizen."

It's doubtful even the 'trained' legally carrying citizen can use a gun for protection. I addressed my own feelings on that topic here:

http://www.the600club.com/topic69718-2.html

"As with religion, to hell with personal choice if drug use preys on individuals before they're smart enough to understand the thing. "

What does this mean? All Religions prey upon people in some form.
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#72514 - 11/04/12 11:56 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: FemaleSatan]
ÜbermenschMunchi Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/17/12
Posts: 45
Loc: California
This is a general reply. I saw something about bath salts and wanted to touch on this.

The drug war is largely if not totally responsible for the existence of dangerous substances such as MDPV (bath salts). This is a great example of how markets adapt. Because weed, LSD, and ecstasy are illegal, there is an incentive for any chemical savvy businessman to create new drugs and market them as "legal alternative". If you go to your local headshop and check out the "legal" ecstasy, it is chock-full of shit. These alternatives often end up being more dangerous than illegal substances.

K2, a synthetic emulation of marijuana, has actually killed people. Last time I checked, marijuana had not killed anyone. And MDPV has pharmacodynamics that mimic a lethal combination of cocaine and methamphetamine, two drugs dangerous enough on their own. The war on drugs has certainly pushed society in the wrong direction.


Edited by ÜbermenschMunchi (11/04/12 12:01 PM)
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#72531 - 11/04/12 02:04 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ÜbermenschMunchi]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
The drug war is also responsible for the high cost of drugs and all the side-crime that results from people trying to raise money for those expensive drugs, traffic those drugs, conceal those drugs, or create those drugs.

Startlingly, countries with less-strict drug policies have lower rates of drug use and drug related crime. Why? Because junkies aren't out there trying to hook everyone they know on drugs so that they can sell to them and subsidize their own habit. They aren't robbing their grandmas for drug money. Etc.

I don't buy the face eater was only on pot. Considering the time it took for him to be apprehended, die, and be tested, it's entirely possible that this shit could have been out of his system. Also, bath salts are a relatively new drug and most drug testing doesn't include a way to test for certain types of bath salts. Even the tests that are supposedly able to test for them are still being tweaked for effectiveness. So considering that pot has been around at least as long as humans have and there have never been other cases of this type of behavior on pot, I don't buy it. Not to mention: new designer drugs are on the market every day. There's no telling what he ingested and there's no telling if it could be tested for. Drug tests aren't magical. They are bits of paper soaked in a chemical.

Back to legalization: I don't do drugs and I have little to no respect for people who do, for various reasons. However, if legalizing drugs would allow the crackheads and meth heads and other assorted dumbasses to hurry up and OD already, then I'm all for it. Maybe they can wall-off a neighborhood and let all the junkies have it. I fuckin' HATE tweakers. They have a certain mentality that has nothing to do with drugs and often the drug use is just one more symptom of the fact that they are the weakest, most useless of our species. Legalization may help them to darwin their way out of the gene pool.

And finally, on to the OP: My answer is "stupidity". Unless you're toking up because you've got cancer or some shit, I think you're just being a retard. Illegal drugs can cost you your job, your possessions, your family and your freedom. If they outlawed cigarettes today I'd be a nonsmoker tomorrow because it's not worth losing everything I have and love just to smoke.

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#72547 - 11/04/12 09:10 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
Startlingly, countries with less-strict drug policies have lower rates of drug use and drug related crime. Why? Because junkies aren't out there trying to hook everyone they know on drugs so that they can sell to them and subsidize their own habit. They aren't robbing their grandmas for drug money. Etc.

Hear, hear!

The manufacture of drugs, especially, can cause a great deal of collateral damage. The manufacture of many drugs in garage labs can create gaseous byproducts that harm anyone in the area or using the same ventilation system.

Dealers shooting it out with one another (you invaded my territory! you cut my dope! perforate him!) can hit a lot of bystanders.

A close friend of mine once woke up to see a junkie holding a knife over him because some guy he offended verbally promised the junkie drugs if he killed him.

If drugs were manufactured and sold in controlled environments, and cheaper because there was less risk, these kinds of things would be far less likely.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
I don't buy the face eater was only on pot.

Drug tests can indeed be unreliable regarding new substances, but it's possible that the face eater had some underlying psychological condition that a normally harmless drug like pot could have exacerbated. Not that pot itself causes face-eating, but pot and a mental condition can be a dangerous combo.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
...often the drug use is just one more symptom...

Exactly. To paraphrase another common expression, drugs don't harm people, people harm themselves with drugs. Heroin doesn't jump up and inject itself into a person's veins.
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#72549 - 11/04/12 09:25 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
The manufacture of drugs, especially, can cause a great deal of collateral damage. The manufacture of many drugs in garage labs can create gaseous byproducts that harm anyone in the area or using the same ventilation system.


Yes, I forgot to even mention this part. I'm not sure about the rest of the country but here, where meth labs are a serious problem, a real estate agent must disclose whether or not a residence has been used as a meth lab in the previous X number of years. The chemicals get into the walls of the house and can cause sickness for years afterwards.

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#72585 - 11/05/12 11:01 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I think drugs classed as "recreational" (by the user, not by legislature that is) are as safe or as potentially dangerous as alcohol. I have a friend in his 50's who likes a smoke of marijuana at weekends because he enjoys the effect. I personally hated the smell, the smoke and the effect the couple of times I bothered to try it. He has a well-paid job, never has a day off sick from one year to the next and is well-groomed with a clean home and a sharp mind.

However . . . when I lived in a more Bohemian are, there were regular weed smokers in my social circle and - their choice, I know - I detested the way it made them stupid and slow; the way it was treated like a ritual with everyone smiling and nodding and trying to talk like American hippies; the way such a big DEAL was made of it. Ugh. Call me hypocritical but I'd rather have a decent glass of Merlot any day.

Now . . . "harder" drugs. I'll admit to experimenting 3 times with LSD in the '70's. It was the real thing, not a lump of sugar with a few drops of something that makes colours look brighter - the azure blue, sellotape wrapped proper hallucinatory stuff. I saw things I'll never forget and could never adequately describe but the last time I did it was at a party - an unwise choice of venue resulting in a bad trip. I'd do it again in heartbeat, though with proper medical supervision; the experience was so fascinating.

As for heroin and crack, the UK has a problem with these, too and an extensive methadone programme. They're dirty drugs that cause nothing but problems and drag people into the gutter. Sherlock Holmes may have been a great detective in spite of his habit but he was a fictional character, after all.
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#72772 - 11/10/12 07:07 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: felixgarnet]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
In the general vernacular, all drugs that are not of pharmaceutical origins are considered "recreational".

Or perhaps this is a USA vs UK difference in terminology?

Pretty much everything about my life has been learned either through direct experience of observation of those around me. I have a scientist's heart, I guess. Here's what I've learned about "drugs": Some people can function on pot and some cannot. Of those who cannot, some are still successful in spite of that because they choose to Make It A Treat, instead of waking up and going to bed with a J every day. Same goes for alcohol, with the added bonus that it's legal.

Crack, Cocaine, Heroin, Meth, X, blahblahblahblah....those are an entirely different beast. I could mangle my arm in an auger and still count on one hand the number of people I have seen get out from underneath that kind of monkey without lifelong side-effects.

No recreation is worth losing my teeth, getting "the twitch", having an organ transplant, getting AIDS or Hep, or sucking dick to get my next fix.

I know two people who blew their brains out, as a solution to the "how to quit doing drugs" problem.

I know exactly ONE person who stopped doing crank and got their shit together. ONE. My cop knows zero people.

So are drugs (or the people who do them) stupid? Yeah, I think they are. Both. Experience and observation has taught me that the odds of a person "being in control" and "able to quit any time" are slim to none. To me, it shows poor judgement to think - as an individual - that you and you alone are going to beat the odds and party for a year or two and then settle down and get your shit together.

And: I don't count it as "beating crank" (or whatever) if it takes you so long to do it that you're left with one tooth and a nervous tic, or an incurable disease.

I also consider ANY form of drug use that will lead to prison to be stupid. But then again, I'd rather be shot in the eye than go to prison. I heart freedom.

Yep, I drink. But I wouldn't do it if they said one day that they'd put me in the clink for it. I'd much rather have my freedom than make some kind of political statement.

And what of the escapism? Like there are no legal ways of "escaping reality" available? It simply doesn't make rational sense to me to take the chance of any of the repercussions listed above.

There are plenty of people out there who want to do drugs, and it's easy-motherfuckin'-peasy to start a ballot initiative to legalize drugs. Many states have done it and two have legalized pot across the board. If all those people who *want* to do drugs would get off their collective asses and begin the process of getting drugs legalized, I'm sure they'd be a force to be reckoned with.

Unfortunately, though, drug-arrests result in felony convictions, which mean no right to vote. This is the horse. This is the cart. It's not difficult math.

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#72795 - 11/11/12 09:29 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
"Yes, I forgot to even mention this part. I'm not sure about the rest of the country but here, where meth labs are a serious problem, a real estate agent must disclose whether or not a residence has been used as a meth lab in the previous X number of years. The chemicals get into the walls of the house and can cause sickness for years afterwards."

That's an issue where I live. My husband has a family member that decided to start making meth. In a condo.... with a neighbor with small children.... a few blocks from a school.

The man was brilliant, funny, charismatic, handsome and just a damn cool guy. He was hands down a favorite of mine. As he started producing it, his behavior became erratic, his IQ dropped at least 30 points, and he was just a violent dickhead toward the end. It was horrifying to watch the level of personality change and the change in appearance.

When he was busted and sent to prison, the only thing he had to say to his mother (who owned the condo) was 'I'm sorry.' It cost about $20,000 to clean up the condo and get it approved by the EPA to be livable. His neighbor with children may sue him because her son has developed asthma.

What this whole incident has cost my husband's family is more. It's broken a proud Southern family. All of this shit because this d00d wanted to make an easy buck.
_________________________
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#72798 - 11/11/12 12:02 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
Stick Offline
member


Registered: 06/08/12
Posts: 157
Loc: Benelux
Basically I have the following rule for myself, it sounds daft but it works for me.

"Everything that is feeling good and still feels good the next day, is good"

Unfortunately many Drugs don't follow this criteria.
Some do when used in moderation.

The moment I feel something is taking to much from me, like being in credit, and have to pay back the next few days.
I am not interested.

The moment something takes over addiction wise mentally or physically, I am out immediately.

S.

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#72808 - 11/11/12 03:16 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Stick]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
I think that's an excellent policy, Stick. I live by similar criteria, actually.

I can't stand pot and I'll never try any other type of illegal drug, but I do enjoy my bourbon and the occasional rum.

If I ever get the feeling I'm craving it, though, it's over. I had surgery on my throat once and they gave me liquid morphine (or maybe Demerol, it's all the same to me) anyway, I took one dose and poured the rest down the toilet. It made me euphoric like I have never experienced before and I wasn't EVEN gonna play that game. The same goes for the booze. It will never get to the point where I'm being irresponsible in other parts of my life.

And, shitty as it may be from time to time, I actually enjoy reality so anything that takes that away from me for an extended period or impairs my ability to nerd around is off my list of things to do.

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#72860 - 11/13/12 02:14 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
scarecro Offline
lurker


Registered: 10/08/12
Posts: 4
Loc: Kentucky
i agree totally with Morgan.
i personaly have delt with an addiction to alcohol, didn't care about anything but being intoxicated. after a long battle i got everything under control.

if it makes you happy, do as you wish

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#72865 - 11/13/12 08:56 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: ceruleansteel]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
In the general vernacular, all drugs that are not of pharmaceutical origins are considered "recreational".

I use the term recreational to describe drugs in same way it's used in the general sense. I call drugs "recreational" if they are taken for the sake of enjoyment, be it a high, trip, euphoria, or whatever. On the other hand, a drug is purposeful if used as a means instead of an ends (treating an illness, performance enhancement, sleep aid, etc.)

Some drugs can be both. If someone takes Benadryl to quell allergies, that's purposeful. If someone takes Benadryl to hallucinate ("getting drylled"), that's recreational. It can be a fuzzy area, since depressed people "self-medicate," or people may be disingenuous about the "medicinal" benefits and/or intentions behind taking certain drugs. (It totally expands me to higher levels of consciousness, man!)

I'm all for effective purposeful use. Recreational use seems a bit wasteful. The cost (hangovers, addiction, time lost, legal ramifications, risk-taking behavior on the drug) doesn't seem worth a little fun, especially considering there are less costly ways to have fun.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
And, shitty as it may be from time to time, I actually enjoy reality so anything that takes that away from me for an extended period or impairs my ability to nerd around is off my list of things to do.

That's basically where I stand. I'm a fan of performance-enhancing drugs. Various stimulants (like caffeine), taurine, NAC, creatine, mentat (they've put sapho juice in pill form!), etc., help my mind function on command. I like having self-control, so I'm averse to impairment and savor enhancement.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

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#72867 - 11/13/12 10:37 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
I'm no fan of any stimulant. It all puts me to sleep.

As a matter of fact, almost all of those things work "wrong" on me.

Benadryl puts me out for about 14 hours. Whatever the allergy pill is that starts with a C makes me a psycho. I took a sleeping pill once and an hour later the cops were fishing me out from under my kitchen table, assuring me the monsters were gone. Pain pills don't work on me. Period. That liquid demerolormorphine,whatever it was, may have worked but I wasn't about to take a second dose of it.

The only cold pill I could take, Sudafed Cold and Sinus, now requires a prescription, thanks to the meth labs.

So fuck it. I'll treat my ailments with other methods and keep my bourbon around for fun.

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#72927 - 11/14/12 10:57 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
Estiban Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/23/12
Posts: 5
Loc: Gran Prairie Texas
I smoke pot from time to time, drink here an there. But do nothing habitually other than practice what I call my faith.
If it feels good do it but once it is doing you you have lost track.
_________________________
It's not where you're at, but where you're comming from.

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#107921 - 08/06/16 07:27 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
Short and sweet:

I don't advocate doing drugs. I do advocate having done them.

In regards to stupidity / Darwinism / or snubbing your nose at addicts: While no matter what, you are responsible for your own actions, I know for a fact that the only difference between me and a heroin addict is that I've never tried it.

I can only judge people who've never tried it but are considering it.

I know that "quitting smoking is easy because I've done it over a hundred times"

I know that after a certain number of times hallucinogens start repeating themselves.

I know that alcohol IS the most deleterious substance known to man. Paradoxically enough, it may also be the key-stone of civilization.

I can't tell if it's me, or that weed nowadays is different than it was when I was a kid, or both, but whatever the case may be I've lost all appetite for it.

At the end of the day, there really is no "high" sweeter than health - eventually children stop preferring chocolate cake to a home cooked-meal sooner or later.
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

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#107930 - 08/07/16 10:53 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: antikarmatomic]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1147
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
...I know for a fact that the only difference between me and a heroin addict is that I've never tried it.

If you buy into the DARE scare claim that you're addicted after a single use. But it's a myth. Many, many people use opiates without getting addicted. Many of the painkillers people use routinely after surgery or broken legs are every bit as physically addictive as heroin--sometimes even more so--but not everyone who breaks an arm ends up hooked on painkillers. I've known people who walked away from heroin and meth after one or two uses.

Physical addiction only occurs after heavy, continuous, prolonged use. That's true of anything--heroin, meth, etc. It takes the brain a while to get used to and come to expect a certain substance.

And yeah, I'm willing to judge someone who's so averse to dealing with their issues that they're making a habit of routinely getting blitzed in an effort to ignore them. They always cite some hardship they're coping with, but it's almost always blown out of proportion. I've known people who have dealt with worse. Heck, usually I've dealt with worse than what they're whining about.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

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#107933 - 08/07/16 02:37 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
And yet, sure enough, there are addicts in the world.

I rely neither on scientific studies nor the anecdotes of others to inform me of what I would very likely enjoy way-the-fuck too much for my own good. If it takes awaiting the latest peer-reviewed study or statistical analysis to inform you of your own nature then I can assure you that we operate on wholly different planets of self-cognizance, and that it occurs to me that I just might be conversing with an automaton - which seems to be something of a reoccurring theme lately.
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

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#107939 - 08/07/16 08:58 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: XiaoGui17]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1164
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
But it's a myth. Many, many people use opiates without getting addicted.


Absolutely. But severity depends on the method of use and one's will power.

With opiates, Heroin is much harder to quit if you slam it as opposed to smoking it. The withdrawal is more intense as well. Intravenous use will hook you on the first use. Smoking will take multiple uses for it to become physical.

From personal experience you can smoke heroin all day, everyday for 7 months and walk away with only two weeks of lethargic depression to get through. With slamming it's the worst 4 day flu you've ever had + two weeks.

Rant: I have no respect for these whinny little "I just can't quit" bitches, or even worse the sanctimonious NA variety. The ones that need the psychodrama of "higher powers"... As they all slurp down coffee and smoke cigarettes in a codependent self deception.

Not really adding much here, but it is a good platform to bash these week willed pussies that need to replace doing drugs with going to meetings (to talk about how out of control they were and replace one addiction with another) while reading some bullshit bias confirming self help tripe..

The real opiate is god.

#enemyofbillw

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#107947 - 08/08/16 12:43 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: CanisMachina42]
JamesSTL Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 312
Loc: St. Louis
EXPLICIT WARNING: I didn't read this whole thread!

General reply, for what it's worth...

Drugs are great. They also kill people. So do automobiles and cheeseburgers.

I have long theorized that habitual-spiral-out-of-control type drug use is simply superfluous people purging themselves, since in many ways our species has "overcome" previous natural checks-and-balances, often described by biologists as "natural selection". Something inside them just wants to be dead. Says some subconscious facet of their mind: "Why haven't I been killed by a saber-tooth tiger yet? This whole living thing is such a stress. I better expedite the conclusion with abysmal dosage of heart-stopping/heart-exploding substances."

Enforcement is a joke. We all know that. In my experience, or at least in my dealings with Western populations, people are going to do what the fuck they're going to do. The East gets a little "fuzzy" to me. Understanding the complexities of their culture is a colossal undertaking. In many ways Asians have more in common with insect-culture than Western-culture. As a whole, the East is very much into "efficiency", and is why they dish out death sentences for dope. Drug use is seen as a serious threat to "The Grand Efficiency". And of course they still keep those canes handy in Singapore, or so I've heard. It's also hot as fuck there. Ask AK, he's been there too... or so he says.

The various states of the world are generally hostile toward explicit drug use (ie "recreational" drug use) since we do in fact live in a de facto globalist/corporatist model, and such models rest on the foundation/assumption of "The Grand Efficiency". Performance/competition is the essence of the machine. Something like a sociological "elan vital", or whatever the French call it. They also call the orgasm the "little death". Look that shit up.

Or as Agent Smith so elegantly observed: "People living out their lives, oblivious."

Not to say that in times of "crisis", states won't turn to performance-enhancing drugs to get an edge. Give your pilots methamphetamine and they'll fly twice as long and gladly crash their aircraft into enemy naval ships.

Or dial the potentiometer back a few clicks, and we have name-brand Adderall, courtesy of Barr Labs (et al), widely available for those suffering from the afflictions of ADD/ADHD. But only available in the United States, of course. Sorry, European readers. You'll have to get your up's from the illegal shit.

To speak personally, my adventures are numerous and varied. Drug use is almost a two-part equation. Part one deals with the chemical you're putting in your body. Part two deals with the context/environment that the "I" is interfacing with whilst under the influence of a chemical. And don't fool yourself, you are never fully in control while on drugs. But then again, when are you ever?

"Stop trying to control everything and just let go." -Tyler Durden



Edit: Boy, I even proof-read it this time and there was still typos. This little grey box is such a pain-in-the-ass to type in. Xear, how about we upgrade the design of this forum to better interface with 2016-era screen resolutions? Like, 600x800 is so 1998. BTW, I remember the old 600c. It even had a special "members section". Alien elite and all, of course. I digress.

Edit 2: If you can't do the withdrawl, maybe the Land of Shadows isn't a realm of exploration you're capable of treading. It can be as unforgiving as stepping off a mountain trolltunga and crashing into the sharp rocks below. Remember what the sign said in Dante's Inferno. Golly I'm so well-read.



Edited by JamesSTL (08/08/16 01:02 PM)

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#107951 - 08/08/16 01:46 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: JamesSTL]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
 Originally Posted By: JS
Says some subconscious facet of their mind: "Why haven't I been killed by a saber-tooth tiger yet? This whole living thing is such a stress. I better expedite the conclusion with abysmal dosage of heart-stopping/heart-exploding substances."


I like how this all ties into the Death instinct. Satan as a sort of apex predator of man in a sort of "if god didn't exist, it would be necessary for man to invent him" type of way. The answer and encapsulation not so much to "why do bad things happen to good people?" but the more important question of "why do sane people, knowing good and evil, commit acts of evil against their own selves".

Or in short: yeah! I totally agree with that assessment.

It's one thing to have done them, because it is an experience, and I'd imagine I'd have a hard time fathoming how a sober mind "ought" function without having any basis for comparison. In short you learn a lot of neat things that you end up at a loss to explain to anyone who hasn't been there. This is not without peril, either.

To continue to do them, however - although there are no hard fast-rules as to how much is enough, but you know it when you see it, and if you have to get too pedantic about it - well then whatever. Once the conversation is over, the only sane thing to do is to hang up the telephone.

It's worth having done them. It's not worth doing them. Beyond that I try not to over-think it.

 Originally Posted By: JS
And of course they still keep those canes handy in Singapore, or so I've heard. It's also hot as fuck there. Ask AK, he's been there too... or so he says.


Yeah - actually of all the places I've been to recently I recommend Singapore, highly! It's up there with Hong Kong - similar in size and general "vibe". Contrary to popular misconception, though (though totally in line with what you may've figured) there are areas of Singapore where they mostly turn a blind-eye to prostitution, chewing gum, cigarettes, not-very-good pot, etc, just like anywhere else. These areas also show it in terms of shitty sidewalks and other evidence of neglect.

The upscale side of the place, however: I have to say, if caning and that sort of discipline is what it takes to maintain that atmosphere: 'totally worth it.

Of course, some people prefer dilapidated apartments, used syringes, empty rubbers, and broken windows to high-rise apartments, clean public transit, and the finer things in life - 'depends how you answer the ol' question of "why are we here".
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

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#108520 - 09/08/16 01:04 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
mountaingoat Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 471
Loc: Colorado
Is there some reason that indulgence and stupidity are mutually exclusive? In fact, isn't stupidity in and of itself something that can be indulged? Does intent factor into your question? My understanding of why you take drugs may be completely in opposition to your actual intent. Or are we simply looking at impact? Surely, if you do enough heroin, the end result is likely to be the same, regardless of intent.

Clearly, the answer is "it depends."
_________________________
“The human race is unimportant. It is the self that must not be betrayed."

-John Fowles

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