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#26134 - 06/24/09 04:18 PM Crowley.
Xarxes Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 14
I have researched Crowley and his philosophy of Thelema and even read Liber Al Vel Legis and even tried to read The Book of Lies but I still don't really understand what this guy was all about. I probably have a small understanding or I am a complete fool but I was wondering if some of you could share what you know with me if it's not too much trouble. I would be grateful for any information you could give.
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"There is a beast in man that needs to be Exercised not Exorcised"


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#26155 - 06/24/09 10:14 PM Re: Crowley. [Re: Xarxes]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Try google?
Check for Crowley links
Check for Thelema links
Check for yahoo groups devoted to Crowley
etc....

Check for the link to the sacred texts website.

Check through this site for other information on Crowley.

Enjoy,
Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#26251 - 06/25/09 05:21 PM Re: Crowley. [Re: Xarxes]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
I am a complete fool?


Most likely, yes.

The problem is that you asked for help without posing a question. What is it that you want to know?
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#26523 - 07/01/09 07:43 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: Morgan]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
To answer your question directly and not send you off looking through shrouded bloody internet thingos:

I did an essay involving an understanding of thelema and its gods so I have a good idea on what its about.

Firstly it allegedly comes from a higher being in egypt, details I wont go into.

Basically the two gods are Nuit (sky goddess and passive force) and Hadit (God and active force)

Nuit is the total of all possibilities. So take all possibilities, which is like the untouched universe and that is Nuit.
Hadit is the point of which these possibilities gain experience, so the active force that utilizes the possibilites.

Thats the god system, and is more of personification rather than literal gods (depending on whether you choose to believe in the higher being and then is message being perfectly literal)

The three statements:
Do as thou whilt shall be the whole of the law.
Love is the law, love under will.
There shall be no law higher than do as thou whilt.

Something like that. Love is described as the 'uniting of one or another part of nuit' (paraphrasing) so any action or motion is one of love but then that also implies love being perfect union in two people example.

That is the extent of my understandin g of thelema and without that reading the Liber Al is next to impossible to understand, but its good once one has a bit better a grasp on the concepts which I hope I supplied there.

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#26526 - 07/01/09 08:02 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
 Quote:

I did an essay involving an understanding of thelema and its gods so I have a good idea on what its about.

Yeah right, I made a whole essay about time but that doesn't mean I understand or can define what time exactly is... (as an example)
Everyone can make essays, but without any respect from people who know a thing or two more about the subject it just remains a text.. Wether you think it is good or not. Making one essay doesn't make you "more aknowledged" about the subject. You know more about it if you keep learning...

And seriously.. Crowley? Nutjob to me, many say he was one of the greatest occultists in the world, I say he was just another freak who made up an egyptian friend who "spoke trough him" and wrote a book about it with his 3 statements being the most appealing.

Why can't no one write his own legacy nowadays and why does everyone have to refer to "old texts".. as if with a little intelligence no one can achieve or discover new things..
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#26529 - 07/01/09 08:23 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: Dimitri]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
I dont spew out essays with little understanding of what Im writing about. I researched for quite some time and then went on to get the Liber Al vel Legis, and besides, why have you decided to pick out one spot and dissect it into a nice long string of insults. This is becoming rather typical of people in this forum.

Anwyay, so nothing can be learnt from the foggy past? People refer to old texts because majority of them arent understood and have something important in them. LaVey certainly respected Crowley and the Satanic Bible reflects some of that in the usage of some Crowleyan ideas.

On the subject of higher beings, well who knows. Maybe the 'spirits of the deceased' in ouiji boards are just higher beings playing with us for shits and giggles. You cant simply say Crowley is crazy because he mightve been truthful, lying or crazy.

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#26532 - 07/01/09 08:32 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
 Quote:
why have you decided to pick out one spot and dissect it into a nice long string of insults. This is becoming rather typical of people in this forum.

That's giving arguments and insults from me are more direct ;\)
Believe me, if I start to insult it wouldn't be on such a friendly tone..

 Quote:
People refer to old texts because majority of them arent understood and have something important in them.

Majority of old texts aren't understood and have something important in them? How do you know that? If it isn't understood, how the hell does one know it contains something important? It could even contain a fucking chili recipi.

 Quote:
LaVey certainly respected Crowley and the Satanic Bible reflects some of that in the usage of some Crowleyan ideas.

It's not because the majority of people have respect for the guy (Crowley) I should do the same. I have a mind of my own and can make things up for myself. And unless in time I gain respect for it I stay at the same comment about the guy.

 Quote:
On the subject of higher beings, well who knows. Maybe the 'spirits of the deceased' in ouiji boards are just higher beings playing with us for shits and giggles. You cant simply say Crowley is crazy because he mightve been truthful, lying or crazy.

About the higher beings; my comment about them is shortened to 1 sentence: "Seeing is believing". If someone is talking about and to higher beings without any back-up I class him under "nutjob".
I'm always open to see new evidence or arguments and if they make sense change my mind. Too bad such things seldom happen.
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#26533 - 07/01/09 08:39 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: Dimitri]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
Fine, thats all fair to say and I wont say its an unfounded opinion.

As for many of the old texts, well people wouldnt be bothering with books that look to be pointless. Like nostradamus for example. Prophesies of the world are still being studied for obvious reasons. Yes most are probably crap written to be difficult but some might be useful.

Crowley if for anything would have some respect for the impact he has had, regardless you cannot deny he has had a significant impact of left hand religion and the occult.

as for seeing is believing, id say thats like saying the abstract concepts dont exist because you cant see it. Seeing is only one facet of understanding and interacting with the world. I guess my argument there is flawed and you neednt point that out but still, my point is you cannot say because YOU cant see it it therefore doesnt exist. And as I said there are other possibilities behind why crowley wrote the book asides insanity

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#26534 - 07/01/09 08:50 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
 Quote:

As for many of the old texts, well people wouldnt be bothering with books that look to be pointless. Like nostradamus for example. Prophesies of the world are still being studied for obvious reasons. Yes most are probably crap written to be difficult but some might be useful.

People will be interested and will buy crap if you give it a nice wrap or MAKE things happen/right. Prophecies would never come out as detailed as most persons described them. In time they let "fit it", or the description is that vague that it can be applied to any event. I can make prohecies too: there is going to be a great war with iron birds falling from the sky and the sky will turn bloody red.
If you go to a conflict area now, my statement is already happening...

 Quote:

Crowley if for anything would have some respect for the impact he has had, regardless you cannot deny he has had a significant impact of left hand religion and the occult.

Such as? I hear that many times but never received a decent response when asked what kind of influence.. only a vague description from nowhere.

 Quote:
Seeing is only one facet of understanding and interacting with the world.
Apart from experiencing it indeed is the only thing for understanding and interacting with the world...
What else?
 Quote:
my point is you cannot say because YOU cant see it it therefore doesnt exist.

Made me chuckle a bit, if I can't see it, no one can see it. And I use highly advanced measuring techniques....
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#26538 - 07/01/09 09:37 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: Dimitri]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
Nostradamus: 16th century, made prophecies that record our history past that point and up to the present. Written is much code and such to protect himself in case of inquisition by church.
Somehow your parallel doesnt quite sum up to the point.

Crowley firstly founded an occult religion, gave a face (a well known one) to the occult society, and did considerable study into the occult. I dont know a vast amount about him asides that he did do much into the practice of magick.

For example, i dont believe we see in the 4th dimension or the 5th, does the mean they dont exist? There are thing we cannot understand and current point of evolution but thats not to say that the stuff doesnt exist.

All my point is is that you cannot disclude the possibility that Crowley was dictated to. I personally have sceptisism about it but still think there is a possibility. I dont think he was crazy for he showed he wasnt via his books (rather intelligent) and just what he had done. Yes maybe eccentric, with mental oddities but not really some nutjob like conspiracy theorists or the like

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#26539 - 07/01/09 09:44 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
About the Nostradamus part: did you read the response thoroughly?
What part of "make it fit" didn't you get?

 Quote:
Crowley firstly founded an occult religion, gave a face (a well known one) to the occult society, and did considerable study into the occult. I dont know a vast amount about him asides that he did do much into the practice of magick.

Best example of vague description I was referring to..
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#26586 - 07/01/09 05:17 PM Re: Crowley. [Re: Dimitri]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
What we have here are two people arguing over, not discussing, a man and a subject that neither appears to have any idea about. AL, put some substance into your responses, you are coming across as very ignorant on the subject. Not saying you are uninformed, but it sure is looking that way. And while I disagree with Dimitri, the right to challenge what appears to be pretentiousness is well founded/encouraged. AL, Dimitri has asked you to present a logical contention a number of times. Either expound or admit defeat. Your vain defence of Crowley is an insult.

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#26602 - 07/01/09 09:52 PM Re: Crowley. [Re: Mercury_Templar]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
Firstly, that was a good point, sorry, but I think there is a little more to the prophecies than simply making them fit since they all go together with certain events pretty well to be coincidence or just convenient matching up.

Im sorry if I sounded pretentious but I do know about thelema, our argument is now about Crowley so challenging one thing about thelema and Im accused of ignorant arguing about crowley, and they be 2 different things.

I dont know alot about Crowley, I'll admit asides the basic things most people know from wiki, youtube and maybe a few of his books. I put down the basic influence he had which was not vague I simply did not put down the examples but I need not because most people already agree with those points and I am sure if you go read some of his books there will be examples in them.

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#26624 - 07/02/09 12:26 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
OK against my better judgement, I am going to respond to this vomit of vagueness. Your inability to understand a friendly push in the right direction, and your further failure to explain yourself clearly, has me now struggling to remain polite. I did not accuse you of ignorant arguing. I said you were appearing ignorant; then I went on to explain that you were not discussing the subject in a logical manner. I will now state very clearly. You obviously know next to nothing about Crowley or Thelema and your ability to discuss in a logical and clear manner is no better than a child in Year 8. If you are going to make a point, back it up. This is a very common expectation when contentions are being questioned. If you can't do this, or refuse to do this, then this thread will be locked down, and you will find yourself on very thin ice. Comprende?

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#26626 - 07/02/09 12:38 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: Mercury_Templar]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
Fine then, even though this whole argument is completely off its original nut of thelema, then will you kindly explain what thelema is and what i did wrong in my explanation of it?

I am not being vague and I stated quite clearly if you chose to ignore, that I dont know much about the specifics asides what is accepted as general knowledge. I dont know how much more clearly I can state that.

The topic is thelema and not crowley, so if you, who pose to be more knowledgeable on the topic, would kindly sort this issue of what is thelema, it would be appreciated.

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#26628 - 07/02/09 12:58 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: Atralux Lucis]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Sorry, the topic is actually Crowley. The subject line reads Crowley. The original poster asked this way up there at the very beginning......

 Quote:
I have researched Crowley and his philosophy of Thelema and even read Liber Al Vel Legis and even tried to read The Book of Lies but I still don't really understand what this guy was all about . I probably have a small understanding or I am a complete fool but I was wondering if some of you could share what you know with me if it's not too much trouble. I would be grateful for any information you could give.
Bold added by me for emphasis.

You supplied very little information that wasn't already well known or could easly be accessed by spending 5 minutes using a search engine. When asked to flesh it out, and supply more information, you typed back in vaguarities and circles. Much like someone with very little knowledge about a subject would do. As previously stated, you wrote an essay about it. Great. An essay does not make one an expert on a subject. When I was in high school my english teacher would let the class choose a topic to write an essay on. I was assigned my topic, because she liked my writing and wanted to challege me. I spent time researching my topic. Usually something I had no knowledge of. But that does not mean I am an expert or authority on the history of jazz music or solar power. Do not slip on the shoes of authority, unless you are willing to walk in them and respond to the challenges.
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Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#26647 - 07/02/09 06:49 AM Re: Crowley. [Re: fakepropht]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
FINE! geez you all seem to ramble on about one sentence. The essay line you all seem to have a problem with was not a pretentious one but a point that was pointing out why I was looking it up, It had nothing really to do with anything okay?

Firstly, the god system of thelema is not as straight forward as you say. I think its a pretty inventive idea that took a bit for me to grasp and the explanations i found on the 'search engine' were vague and pretty pointless. Rather than have someone run around searching for the answers I thought I would put my shorter explanation, Im sorry for trying to help out.


The argument following was simply about whether Crowley was crazy or not. And as Ill say a third time, if my wording is vague well i already said Im not up with the specifics so instead of bloody pointing out how vague my explanations and arguments are you should put in some specifics rather than be counter productive and point out my flaws.

So i implore others again to put into the topic rather than me because this isnt about me but about Crowley.

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#26681 - 07/02/09 04:36 PM Re: Crowley. [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
Stop whining fucker.

Game over Troll.

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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