Page all of 4 1234>
Topic Options
#26239 - 06/25/09 03:33 PM French Ban on Burka
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Links - Discussion to follow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8113778.stm
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dad4289c-5cfe-11de-9d42-00144feabdc0.html
http://apostate.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/french-ban-on-the-burka/
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1905554,00.html?xid=rss-world

Quite frankly I think the French have made a statement that has needed to be made for years with this. It's important that we address the growing problem of Islam in Europe and start to defend ourselves from what is an attack on our way of life. Islam is spreading fast and due to liberal ideas and political correction it's not allowed to be challenged when other religions are. As Muslims riot at the drop of a hat, turban or veil whichever, it's even harder for countries to be critical of Islam. The fact that France has made these statements against the Burka and are not afraid to act against archaic religions is, I feel, a sign of growth within Europe.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26247 - 06/25/09 04:57 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
At the moment, the only people fighting the Islamic threat in the UK is the BNP. Yet, you are not a BNP supporter. Why?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
#26281 - 06/25/09 09:22 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Fist]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Because the BNP are homophobic, fundie christians, and nazi's. I'm libertarian, support gay rights, opposed to religion and not in the slightest bit racist.

The logical choice is UKIP, they are against the immigration policies, they are against UK being part of the European Union and it's Open Door policies and they are not racist, homophobic or fundies...
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26335 - 06/27/09 04:06 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
Demonic Moroni Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 18
Loc: Arizona
I'm very much uneasy on the banning of anything, especially when it comes to matters of free speech. (I am against the banning of swastikas in Germany, for instance.)

Nevertheless, I understand what France is trying to do, and I would absolutely hate to see it be made illegal to criticize Islam in a future Europe.

I am an American, so I can't say much about European affairs, but I guess the only thing I can say is tread softly.
_________________________
"Here I stand; I can do no otherwise."
Shemhamforash!
Hail Satan

Top
#26341 - 06/27/09 09:10 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I don't know anything about the UKIP but they seem like conservative (small L) libertarians. Our Libertarian Party in the US is for open borders which most Americans are against. Most people, regardless of party, hold libertarian sympathies - especially when the law applies to them. The actual votes are influenced out of concern over what they think the other guy will do.

I don't know if the UKIP has any MPs but the BNP does.

I am not sure how many BNP members are actually Xtians. It seems as if just like the NAZI party the BNP is using this as a prop.

I don't know about the UK, but there no one in the US are denied ANY rights because they are homosexual. 'Gay Rights' really means that they want access to certain govt entitlements. It has nothing to do with civil rights. It is all about getting extra govt cheese.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
#26349 - 06/27/09 02:21 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Quote:
The rich legacy of tradition, legend, myth and very real wealth of landscape and man-made structures is one of our island’s richest treasures. The men and women of the British National Party are motivated by love and admiration of the outpouring of culture, art, literature and the pattern of living through the ages that has left its mark on our very landscape. We value the folkways and customs which have been passed down through countless generations. We enthuse with pride at the marvels of architecture and engineering that have been completed on these islands since the construction of the great megaliths 7,000 years ago.


Christian I think not.

D.

Top
#26365 - 06/27/09 09:31 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Fist]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: Fist
I don't know anything about the UKIP but they seem like conservative (small L) libertarians. Our Libertarian Party in the US is for open borders which most Americans are against. Most people, regardless of party, hold libertarian sympathies - especially when the law applies to them. The actual votes are influenced out of concern over what they think the other guy will do.

UKIP are a relatively new party, only being around since the early 90's, they are however the 5th most popular party in Britain at the moment. They are more centrist than conservative from what I know of them and very much libertarian with the exception of their immigration policies.

 Originally Posted By: Fist
I don't know if the UKIP has any MPs but the BNP does.

Not at the moment, but neither does BNP. Our MP's are still in session from when we had Tony Blair in power. BNP does have 2 MEP's (Members of European Parliament) at the moment though, as Britain has a set number of seats in the EU parliament as well as it's own. UKIP doesn't have any as far as I know, and regularly came 3rd in each constituency. In the General Election, where we elect our MP's in 2011-12 (TBA) for British Parliament I expect to see a conservative majority, labour loosing a lot of seats, liberal democrats possibly snatching second place instead of labour (unlikely, it's still two party politics, labour or conservative here), and UKIP, BNP, Plaid Cymru, Scottish Nationals, Sinn Fein, Ulster and Green all potentially taking home a few seats. There's 646 seats to get, first party to 324 names their leader Prime Minister, if no-one gains enough it's whoever has majority or a hung parliament if no-one has a clear majority.

 Originally Posted By: Fist
I am not sure how many BNP members are actually Xtians. It seems as if just like the NAZI party the BNP is using this as a prop.

Possible, but I've spoken to a fair few, they seem quite Christian to me.

 Originally Posted By: Fist
I don't know about the UK, but there no one in the US are denied ANY rights because they are homosexual.

Marriage...

 Originally Posted By: Fist
'Gay Rights' really means that they want access to certain govt entitlements. It has nothing to do with civil rights. It is all about getting extra govt cheese.

No it's to do with gay marriage, still illegal... sounds like someone's being denied their civil rights there.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
 Quote:
The rich legacy of tradition, legend, myth and very real wealth of landscape and man-made structures is one of our island’s richest treasures. The men and women of the British National Party are motivated by love and admiration of the outpouring of culture, art, literature and the pattern of living through the ages that has left its mark on our very landscape. We value the folkways and customs which have been passed down through countless generations. We enthuse with pride at the marvels of architecture and engineering that have been completed on these islands since the construction of the great megaliths 7,000 years ago.


Christian I think not.

D.


I don't see how appreciating our history makes them not Christian... remember, this country has been officially Christian in one form or another for about ooooh 2000 years, when the Romans took over.


Edited by TornadoCreator (06/27/09 09:32 PM)
Edit Reason: correction
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26369 - 06/28/09 02:20 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I'm not going to go into detail upon this, -assuming you at least know your own history- but when Britain was conquered by the Romans, the Romans didn't even know Christianity. Most of the European christianisation has been done after the first millennium, so the idea that the country is christian for 2000 years is somewhat ridiculous.

D.

Top
#26409 - 06/29/09 01:12 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
 Originally Posted By: Fist
I don't know about the UK, but there no one in the US are denied ANY rights because they are homosexual.


Marriage...


Marriage isn't a "right" at least, not a right as is described by the Bill of Rights. Not trying to turn this into a Gay Marriage thread, nor am I against gay people getting married. Marriage is just not something I would consider a right, or a privilege for that matter.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#26821 - 07/05/09 03:48 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Fist]
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
 Originally Posted By: Fist
At the moment, the only people fighting the Islamic threat in the UK is the BNP. Yet, you are not a BNP supporter. Why?


Thanks for this. Totally on-topic. Congratz.

The decision of banning the burka is one of the rare moments I can be proud of my country. I really care about the fact France claims to be a non-religious state, a symbol of the Muslims' cultural women enslaving shouldn't be allowed in. Believe in whatever you want, bring your culture (cosmopolitanism rules), but leave that kind of things behind (at least keep them for you and your private life). That's my opinion and I silently wish it was shared by more of my french mates.
_________________________
In the end everyone dies...

Top
#26829 - 07/05/09 11:27 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
 Originally Posted By: Fist
I don't know about the UK, but there no one in the US are denied ANY rights because they are homosexual.


Marriage...


Marriage isn't a "right" at least, not a right as is described by the Bill of Rights. Not trying to turn this into a Gay Marriage thread, nor am I against gay people getting married. Marriage is just not something I would consider a right, or a privilege for that matter.


It's something one group can do, but another group cannot, for the sole reason that the first group said so. If that's not segregation and the abuse of civil liberty I don't know what is. The Bill Of Rights does not have any say on what is or is not a right, it's a document that is far from infallible and most certainly out of date, written when religion was expected and homosexuality misunderstood.

If it's not a right, nor is it a privilege, what the hell is it? By all social standards everyone has the right to do whatever they want so long as it doesn't hurt someone or infringe on the rights of others, this is the basis behind emancipation one of the basic principals of modern society. By that model, marriage, is a right that everyone has, and gay marriage is no different than straight marriage.

besides, as you said this isn't a gay marriage topic, but Fist is quite simply wrong and he knows it. To claim gays are treated equally in the US when they can't even have a fucking funeral without a protest outside with 6 year olds holding signs saying "God Hates Fags" is a bare faced lie. They can't marry, they can't adopt, they can't be made next of kin for the partners thus they can't visit each other in hospital or claim any family based tax cuts or benefits. They can't even get a job in many schools or public buildings in many states. Gays are persecuted more than any other group, and Fist is either extremely naive on this subject or rather bigoted.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26830 - 07/05/09 11:34 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Diavolo]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I'm not going to go into detail upon this, -assuming you at least know your own history- but when Britain was conquered by the Romans, the Romans didn't even know Christianity. Most of the European christianisation has been done after the first millennium, so the idea that the country is christian for 2000 years is somewhat ridiculous.

D.


Actually, the oldest Christian Church in the UK still standing was built in 654AD, it's St Peter's Chapel, Bradwell-on-Sea, and it wasn't the first Church to be built either. England has been officially Christian since Rome converted because England was part of the Roman Empire at the time. From what I've looked up, Christianity became the official religion in 306AD, that means it's been the official religion for 1703 years, that's rather close to 2000 really, especially as it would have been around unofficially longer than that, considering the number was a rough throw away statement not a historical estimate I think it was accurate enough.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26831 - 07/05/09 11:45 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3114
 Quote:
To claim gays are treated equally in the US when they can't even have a fucking funeral without a protest outside with 6 year olds holding signs saying "God Hates Fags" is a bare faced lie. They can't marry, they can't adopt, they can't be made next of kin for the partners thus they can't visit each other in hospital or claim any family based tax cuts or benefits. They can't even get a job in many schools or public buildings in many states. Gays are persecuted more than any other group, and Fist is either extremely naive on this subject or rather bigoted.

There is a difference between personal feelings and official laws.
Officially they may get married and officially they may have kids, but personal feelings get in the way as soon as confronted with gays. The main reason for them being held back is just the human feelings and the religion inspired bullshit most people value. Nothing more nothing less.

Official everything is possible, but as soon as someone finds out, the emotions and religious ideas start to make their appearance.

Back on topic:
Good thing they had a ban on the Burka, but then again: what with freedom of speech everyone values that much?
Also I don't see Islam as a danger/problem. Only as yet another irritating noise which needs to be lessened to avoid going mental. I can only cheer to laws and actions whom restrict any (all) religions and their unnatural and/or unhuman behaviour and codes.


Edited by Dimitri (07/05/09 11:52 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#26832 - 07/05/09 11:52 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Quote:
Christianisation of Anglo-Saxon England began around 600 AD, influenced by Celtic Christianity from the northwest and by the Roman Catholic Church from the southeast. Augustine, the first Archbishop of Canterbury, took office in 597. In 601, he baptised the first Christian Anglo-Saxon king, Aethelbert of Kent. The last pagan Anglo-Saxon king, Penda of Mercia, died in 655.The last pagan Jutish king, Arwald of the Isle of Wight was killed in 686. The Anglo-Saxon mission on the continent took off in the 8th century, leading to the Christianisation of practically all of the Frankish Empire by 800.


D.

Top
#26837 - 07/05/09 12:54 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Dimitri]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
 Quote:
Christianisation of Anglo-Saxon England began around 600 AD, influenced by Celtic Christianity from the northwest and by the Roman Catholic Church from the southeast. Augustine, the first Archbishop of Canterbury, took office in 597. In 601, he baptised the first Christian Anglo-Saxon king, Aethelbert of Kent. The last pagan Anglo-Saxon king, Penda of Mercia, died in 655.The last pagan Jutish king, Arwald of the Isle of Wight was killed in 686. The Anglo-Saxon mission on the continent took off in the 8th century, leading to the Christianisation of practically all of the Frankish Empire by 800.


D.

A pointless argument anyway, it doesn't matter how long the religion was present, the point is it has been a major part of UK culture for a significant


 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Quote:
To claim gays are treated equally in the US when they can't even have a fucking funeral without a protest outside with 6 year olds holding signs saying "God Hates Fags" is a bare faced lie. They can't marry, they can't adopt, they can't be made next of kin for the partners thus they can't visit each other in hospital or claim any family based tax cuts or benefits. They can't even get a job in many schools or public buildings in many states. Gays are persecuted more than any other group, and Fist is either extremely naive on this subject or rather bigoted.

There is a difference between personal feelings and official laws.
Officially they may get married

No they can't, not in the US
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
and officially they may have kids,

They can't legally adopt in some states either
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
but personal feelings get in the way as soon as confronted with gays. The main reason for them being held back is just the human feelings and the religion inspired bullshit most people value. Nothing more nothing less.

Official everything is possible, but as soon as someone finds out, the emotions and religious ideas start to make their appearance.

Yes, but I'm not saying they physically can't get married, I'm saying it won't be recognised by the state, and they cannot do it legally.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Back on topic:
Good thing they had a ban on the Burka, but then again: what with freedom of speech everyone values that much?
Also I don't see Islam as a danger/problem. Only as yet another irritating noise which needs to be lessened to avoid going mental. I can only cheer to laws and actions whom restrict any (all) religions and their unnatural and/or unhuman behaviour and codes.

If you live anywhere in Europe, more specifically Netherlands, France, Denmark, UK or Germany where the problem of Islam is becoming unmanageable you can see why people want to ban the burka. Sure, I support free speech, but the burka is practically bad as well, security cameras and such need to be able to see peoples faces.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26838 - 07/05/09 01:13 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Dimitri]
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Good thing they had a ban on the Burka, but then again: what with freedom of speech everyone values that much?
Also I don't see Islam as a danger/problem. Only as yet another irritating noise which needs to be lessened to avoid going mental. I can only cheer to laws and actions whom restrict any (all) religions and their unnatural and/or unhuman behaviour and codes.


The problem (IMHO) about the burka, and even lighter islamic veils, is that it represents the inferiority of women in Muslim's religion and culture. It's not just a symbol, it physically hides their faces. They can wear whatever they want in private, but in public and non-religious places, they have to conform to our laws and culture. That's the idea.

I'm being really attentive to Islam's progression in Europe (in France especially, because it's where I live ^^). They're getting more and more things... porkless food at school cafeteria, reserved hours at swimming pools when non-Muslims are not allowed in (not everywhere, but in some swimming pools it does happen, I still cannot believe it !), I know they've also claimed they wanted their own holidays.

Geez, when you come to live in a country, you have to adapt to it, and not the contrary ! If you don't want to eat pork, eat vegetables alone, you'll eat meat by night at home ! If you don't want non-Muslims to see your wife in swimsuit, buy your own pool ! And if you still want to show everyone you support the enslavement of women, you're not welcome !

(Of course, this all is my own and private opinion and I don't mean to be offensive to anyone ;\) )
_________________________
In the end everyone dies...

Top
#26839 - 07/05/09 02:24 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
If that's not segregation and the abuse of civil liberty I don't know what is.


Then you obviously don't know what they are.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
The Bill Of Rights does not have any say on what is or is not a right


Actually, yes it does. That happens to be why it was written.


 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
If it's not a right, nor is it a privilege, what the hell is it?


To put it simply - Marriage is just a legal contract, nothing more than a piece of paper.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
marriage, is a right that everyone has, and gay marriage is no different than straight marriage.


Right. Notice how I never said there is a difference?

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
To claim gays are treated equally in the US when they can't even have a fucking funeral without a protest outside with 6 year olds holding signs saying "God Hates Fags" is a bare faced lie.


More idiocy from you. The protests you are speaking of, conducted by The Westboro Baptist Church, are done at the funerals of dead soldiers. Not the funerals of gay people.

The reason they protest is because, according to them, US soldiers are being killed because God is angry at America for being "accepting of the Homosexual lifestyle".

While it is possible one or more of the soldiers who had their funeral protested was gay, they weren't open about it. At least not to the military. Since you obviously know nothing about America I will let you know that the policy of "Don't ask don't tell" means that gays can't be open about their sexuality and serve in the military.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
They can't marry, they can't adopt


They can in some places.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
they can't be made next of kin for the partners thus they can't visit each other in hospital


My step-dad's brother is gay. He was just in the hospital, and no one tried to prevent his partner from visiting him. Your move, Sherlock.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
They can't even get a job in many schools or public buildings in many states. Gays are persecuted more than any other group, and Fist is either extremely naive on this subject or rather bigoted.


Again, you don't know what you are talking about. The mayor of Portland, Sam Adams, is openly gay. A few teachers at my highschool were openly gay. I have worked with gay people at several of my jobs. Does it hurt being that stupid? I sure hope so.

On a seperate note: When one compares the posts that Fist makes, to the ones that you make, it is abundantly clear you have no right to attack his intelligence.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#26840 - 07/05/09 02:51 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Impius]
Maxim D Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/21/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Portland, Oregon, United State...
 Originally Posted By: Impius
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Good thing they had a ban on the Burka, but then again: what with freedom of speech everyone values that much?
Also I don't see Islam as a danger/problem. Only as yet another irritating noise which needs to be lessened to avoid going mental. I can only cheer to laws and actions whom restrict any (all) religions and their unnatural and/or unhuman behaviour and codes.


The problem (IMHO) about the burka, and even lighter islamic veils, is that it represents the inferiority of women in Muslim's religion and culture. It's not just a symbol, it physically hides their faces. They can wear whatever they want in private, but in public and non-religious places, they have to conform to our laws and culture. That's the idea.


That is a great success for France. I just wish that America would do something about it. Religious tolerance has gone a little too far, and western culture should not be infected by their backwards ways. I'm sick of seeing muslims around. There have been too many great strides forwards, in the sense of women's rights, to tolerate that kind of behavior. It reminds me of when the illegal aliens were protesting or amnesty, and waving the mexican flag (and their other respective flags), but not the american flag?! Seeing them (the muslims) with their customs in western lands is a huge spit in the face to everything we enjoy, and what they came to western lands to enjoy. No, we don't need to accommodate them.
_________________________
The leaders of institutionalized religion should be institutionalized....

Top
#26841 - 07/05/09 05:29 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
If that's not segregation and the abuse of civil liberty I don't know what is.

Then you obviously don't know what they are.

That's right, take my quote but don't bother to quote what I'm referencing otherwise people will be able to see for themselves that you're twisting words to your own liking.

 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
The Bill Of Rights does not have any say on what is or is not a right

Actually, yes it does. That happens to be why it was written.

Good job on the quote mine there, you're becoming quite the pathetic forum troll. I actually justified this statement but that can't have been important, oh no. Don't worry though, the average member of the 600 Club is intelligent and has a long enough attention span to remember my points or sense of curiosity strong enough to make them look back one page.

 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
If it's not a right, nor is it a privilege, what the hell is it?

To put it simply - Marriage is just a legal contract, nothing more than a piece of paper.

That you have a RIGHT to obtain with any person of your choosing, so it's a fucking right then isn't it you damn fool.

 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
marriage, is a right that everyone has, and gay marriage is no different than straight marriage.

Right. Notice how I never said there is a difference?

No, but the law does, and as the law dictates if people are having their rights violated and not you, it makes more sense if I'm arguing against them doesn't it.

 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
To claim gays are treated equally in the US when they can't even have a fucking funeral without a protest outside with 6 year olds holding signs saying "God Hates Fags" is a bare faced lie.

More idiocy from you. The protests you are speaking of, conducted by The Westboro Baptist Church, are done at the funerals of dead soldiers. Not the funerals of gay people.

Oh, am I. My mistake, I forgot you can read my fucking mind. Believe it or not I was talking about the protests at gay peoples funerals. You know the protests I spoke about, ie. not the completely different protest you're talking about. You don't get to decide what I'm referencing.

By the way, ever heard of Matthew Shepard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard
Obviously he wasn't tortured, murdered and protested at his funeral all for being gay, that only happens to the solders that are defending the country. That's why I could only possibly be talking about those protests.

 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
The reason they protest is because, according to them, US soldiers are being killed because God is angry at America for being "accepting of the Homosexual lifestyle".

While it is possible one or more of the soldiers who had their funeral protested was gay, they weren't open about it. At least not to the military. Since you obviously know nothing about America I will let you know that the policy of "Don't ask don't tell" means that gays can't be open about their sexuality and serve in the military.

Thank you, you inadvertently shown another right gay people don't have. If a gay man wanted to keep a photo of his boyfriend (because they legal can't be married in the USA), he can't he must hide it, but if a straight guy wants a photo of his wife, that's just fine. It's a fucking double standard and you know it.

 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
They can't marry, they can't adopt

They can in some places.

Meaning that is other places the fucking can't. How about we only let women vote in 41 states. I know, we'll only make slavery illegal everywhere in USA accept Utah. Or perhaps we'll force Sharia law, but only in Minnesota. Does this seem fair. It's OK, peoples rights are not violated in some places, so that makes it OK.

 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
they can't be made next of kin for the partners thus they can't visit each other in hospital

My step-dad's brother is gay. He was just in the hospital, and no one tried to prevent his partner from visiting him. Your move, Sherlock.

Isn't that nice. My grandmother smoked for 60 years straight and never got cancer, clearly smoking doesn't cause cancer. Just because it didn't happen to him doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Do you have another pointless anecdote for me?

 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
They can't even get a job in many schools or public buildings in many states. Gays are persecuted more than any other group, and Fist is either extremely naive on this subject or rather bigoted.

Again, you don't know what you are talking about. The mayor of Portland, Sam Adams, is openly gay. A few teachers at my highschool were openly gay. I have worked with gay people at several of my jobs. Does it hurt being that stupid? I sure hope so.


http://www.aclu.org/lgbt/discrim/12014prs20020507.html
Never happens does it.

They don't even have to be gay, they only need to be not anti-gay and they'll get the sack.
http://www.babble.com/CS/...play-gay.aspx
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-8352947.html

Now... I think we should stay back on topic. You're clearly not able to debate with me on the subject of gay rights on an equal footing so I think we should leave it at that.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26842 - 07/05/09 05:31 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Maxim D]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
TC, you should definitely start a gay marriage thread. It has come up a few times and could use it's own thread.

Never the less, marriage is an ancient social construct and is by and large a religious construct. A secular state will have a great deal of difficulty legitimizing gay marriage without defining what exactly a marriage is. In most of the EU there will be a great deal of hand wringing over the issue as they may have to own up to the fact that one-man-one-woman marriage is a Christian construct that is protected and promoted by the State.

It is worth noting that the Greeks had the most gay friendly culture on Earth yet even they did not even have a concept of gay 'marriage.' Why?

In any event, banning some sort of religion or dress in the US would be simply impossible. Our 1st Amendment of the Constitution quite simply prohibits restrictions on religion and other forms of free expression. While I generally dislike Muslim culture there are perfectly free to exercise it here in the US. But I do rather appreciate France fighting back against the Muslim invasion.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
#26844 - 07/05/09 05:48 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Fist]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: Fist
In any event, banning some sort of religion or dress in the US would be simply impossible. Our 1st Amendment of the Constitution quite simply prohibits restrictions on religion and other forms of free expression. While I generally dislike Muslim culture there are perfectly free to exercise it here in the US. But I do rather appreciate France fighting back against the Muslim invasion.

I can understand someone's opposition to the banning of the Burka based on the US first amendment however it's used as an item of oppression, it breaks many surveillance and security laws in countries (such as when Muslims have sued at airports because looking like a letterbox was considered not suitable for airport security) and at the very least it's at a time where we need to make a statement against Islam in Europe due the demands placed on us. Europe is having it's colourful culture curtailed because it might offend Muslims and Muslim ideals superimposed on top.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26845 - 07/05/09 05:53 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
That's right, take my quote but don't bother to quote what I'm referencing otherwise people will be able to see for themselves that you're twisting words to your own liking.


I twisted nothing around. If you think gay marriage bans are a matter of segregation or civil rights violations, you do not know what either of those are. I don't need to twist anything to show that you don't know what you are talking about. You can do that on your own quite well.


 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Good job on the quote mine there, you're becoming quite the pathetic forum troll. I actually justified this statement but that can't have been important, oh no. Don't worry though, the average member of the 600 Club is intelligent and has a long enough attention span to remember my points or sense of curiosity strong enough to make them look back one page.


Ok. Let them look back then and decide on their own who the real troll is.



 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
That you have a RIGHT to obtain with any person of your choosing, so it's a fucking right then isn't it you damn fool.


No you don't have the right with any person. You can't marry a 12 year old, though I am sure you would like to be able to do so.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
No, but the law does, and as the law dictates if people are having their rights violated and not you, it makes more sense if I'm arguing against them doesn't it.


Um, no.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Thank you, you inadvertently shown another right gay people don't have. If a gay man wanted to keep a photo of his boyfriend (because they legal can't be married in the USA), he can't he must hide it, but if a straight guy wants a photo of his wife, that's just fine. It's a fucking double standard and you know it.


They could very well have a photo, they would just have to lie about who the photo is of. Also I never said it wasn't a double standard.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Meaning that is other places the fucking can't. How about we only let women vote in 41 states. I know, we'll only make slavery illegal everywhere in USA accept Utah. Or perhaps we'll force Sharia law, but only in Minnesota. Does this seem fair. It's OK, peoples rights are not violated in some places, so that makes it OK.


Again, I never said it was ok. In fact I said I am all for gay marriage. I just don't see marriage as being a right for anybody.
Since states have the right to make their own laws it is up to the individual states to decide their policy on gay marriage. And if you are expecting things in life to be "fair" you are even more delusional than I thought.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Isn't that nice. My grandmother smoked for 60 years straight and never got cancer, clearly smoking doesn't cause cancer. Just because it didn't happen to him doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Do you have another pointless anecdote for me?


The statement you made would have it sound like that it is true everywhere for everyone. All I did was point out, yet again, just how wrong you are.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
http://www.aclu.org/lgbt/discrim/12014prs20020507.html
Never happens does it.


See above response.


 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Now... I think we should stay back on topic. You're clearly not able to debate with me on the subject of gay rights on an equal footing so I think we should leave it at that.


\:D
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#26847 - 07/05/09 06:58 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
Sure, I support free speech, but the burka is practically bad as well, security cameras and such need to be able to see peoples faces


The way you are talking it appears that you support free speach as long as what is being said is what you believe in.

Maybe they should also ban Furry suits, as you can't see someones face in those either?? Whether you wear one or not, people do wear them, so they are 'practically bad' also. By your reasoning that is.

Zephyr
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


Top
#26852 - 07/05/09 09:42 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: ZephyrGirl
 Quote:
Sure, I support free speech, but the burka is practically bad as well, security cameras and such need to be able to see peoples faces


The way you are talking it appears that you support free speach as long as what is being said is what you believe in.

Maybe they should also ban Furry suits, as you can't see someones face in those either?? Whether you wear one or not, people do wear them, so they are 'practically bad' also. By your reasoning that is.

Zephyr


Now you're just baiting.

I actually don't support the banning of the burka, not really. I want to support the banning of the burka because I can't stand Islam and want to piss all over it wherever possible, but I consider freedom of expression to be a right everyone should have. It puts me in quite an interesting position actually, because I have really strong feeling that in this case both support and oppose the banning. I'm anything but simple.

My only argument against the burka that has some decent logic behind it, is this. In any major city in UK, if you walk into a shop, bank, public building etc. You cannot be wearing an obscuring hat or hood as your face must be visible for CCTV. The burka completely covers everything. Why should the burka be exempt from the rule. If people expect equal rights they should expect equal treatments. It's a good reason to ban burka's in businesses and public buildings, but not entirely. It's the only thing I have that really counts as a reasonable argument against the burka though. Everything else is "It'll really piss off the Muslims".

As for fur suits, if people wore them in public you'd have a point, they don't (or at least extremely few of them do), and I certainly don't, you have no point, you're just looking for an argument here. Grow up.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26855 - 07/05/09 09:55 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Burqas should be illegal, however wearing a hijab meets Islamic requirements for covering the hair. This allows the full face to be seen. If the beekeepers bitch about it, they can always fall back on the hijab, along with draping their bodies in black sheets, to be considered "modest" amongst their peers and in the eyes of their detestable Allah.

And don't forget, that these women happen to be the most fervent supporters of wearing a burqa. Stockholm Syndrome + social stigmatism = Muslim womens' stance on "modesty". They just can't see their situation the same way WE do.

But if they want to live in our society, they have to be willing to compromise. We'd have to do a hell of a lot more if WE wanted to live in the Middle East, that's for sure. That is, of course, anyone in their right minds would WANT to.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#26856 - 07/05/09 10:38 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Nemesis]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
But if they want to live in our society, they have to be willing to compromise. We'd have to do a hell of a lot more if WE wanted to live in the Middle East, that's for sure. That is, of course, anyone in their right minds would WANT to.


A big fucking A to that one Sista!

I don't know what it is like in the States, but nudity is banned pretty much everywhere on the streets of Australia. If I'm not allowed to walk down the street naked if I want to, why should 'they' be allowed to walk down the street covering their faces.
Tit for Burqa as such.

And TC, I like having a stir. Grow up?! Fuck off, I'm sucking the marrow out of life, not trying to impress you with my maturity.

Zephyr


Edited by ZephyrGirl (07/05/09 10:39 PM)
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


Top
#26884 - 07/06/09 04:44 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1724
Loc: New York
I have a feeling of great discontent towards the Muslim religion. The word despise would be more fitting.

However, as much as I dislike their beliefs, traditions and so on, I cannot condone the banning of the Burka.

It almost seems that no matter what we do, the Muslims win.

After the terrorist attacks on the United States, we have become close to a police state, where individual liberties, take a back seat to perceived safety. It is true, that there have been no more attacks on American soil (yet), but the price for this has been personal freedom.
Since ending personal freedom, appears to be more of the Muslim agenda then physically wiping everyone who is not Muslim off of the face of the planet; it seems to me, that they are winning by a very big lead.

In the same sense, banning Burka’s, doesn’t so much mean a victory for non Muslims, but instead another win for Muslims, since one more privilege has been wiped away. That privilege being, having the right to dress in any manner that one might chose to. If a person does not wish to show their face in public, why should they have to? One might argue, that it is also frowned upon for a person with a fully hidden face to walk into a bank. However, the later case can be argued that most often anyone walking into a bank fully masked has the intent of robbing it.
Yeah yeah but what if it’s brutally cold outside, and the person is just covering up against the cold. This argument can go round and round forever.

At what point will it be illegal to wear head scarfs, hats, or cut off t-shirts?

As a side gag, I would like to include (using my psychic powers) a possible retort by two of my pals on here.

Tat2zz: What do you care about the fact, that it is now illegal for women to wear Burka’s in France. This does not affect you in anyway, and instead of arguing about it, why don’t you get your ass to France, and hand out fliers in protest!.

TornadoCreator: Asmedious is not talking about the Burka itself, and that people should be allowed to wear one. He is talking about the impact of of inhibiting ones choice to wear what ever kind of clothing they wish to. I also hate Muslims and Burka’s, but I would be willing to fight and die for your right to wear one!!

(Just having a bit of fun)

Asme.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#26889 - 07/06/09 05:27 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Asmedious]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
TornadoCreator: Asmedious is not talking about the Burka itself, and that people should be allowed to wear one. He is talking about the impact of of inhibiting ones choice to wear what ever kind of clothing they wish to. I also hate Muslims and Burka’s, but I would be willing to fight and die for your right to wear one!!

(Just having a bit of fun)


Am I really that predictable... damn.

You got my basic response quite accurate. Although die is a little too strong, as much as I'd like to think my convictions are that strong if I'm honest they're not. I'm not really prepared to die for my views, and few people really are, but as a figure of speech it's certainly something I've said in the past.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26890 - 07/06/09 05:31 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Asmedious]
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
In the same sense, banning Burka’s, doesn’t so much mean a victory for non Muslims, but instead another win for Muslims, since one more privilege has been wiped away.


It's a privilege of theirs to wear this kind of stuff. It's a victory of ours to forbid it and keep our states non-religious.

But you've got a point here. We shall not let the terrorists make us afraid. US paranoïa is a natural reaction (or so would it be if it hadn't been ordered by Bush's governement, in which I never put any trust), but this kind of reaction should be overpassed and the right decisions should be made, that is to say try and find a way to fight terrorism efficiently, instead of letting the fear they inspire us make us get paralyzed.

(Of course, I'm not implicating that a Muslim has to be a terrorist or even a potential terrorist. These are two separate things.)
_________________________
In the end everyone dies...

Top
#26899 - 07/07/09 02:24 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Impius]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
(Of course, I'm not implicating that a Muslim has to be a terrorist or even a potential terrorist. These are two separate things.)


Why is it that when Islam or Muslims are discussed, and a negative opinion is stated, that opinion needs to be followed by a disclaimer much like the one you stated? Is it bad publicity, or more a matter of where there is smoke there is fire? Islam is a virus that needs to be innoculated. With no disclaimers.

By feeling the need to add a disclaimer like that, it only shows they are winning. They are not protected. It shows we have to tip toe around any opinion or debate, or we fear offending them. No one feels the need to add any disclaimer when bashing Christians or Mormons or Scientologists. Why? Because they are less likely to walk up to you strapped with explosives and a cell phone detonator in hand.

I wasn't singling you out, only the disclaimer that seems to be required when any person has an opinion on Islam.


Edited by fakepropht (07/07/09 02:31 AM)
Edit Reason: hit the button too fast
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

Top
#26902 - 07/07/09 05:05 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: fakepropht]
god.over.djinn Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 75
Loc: Melbourne
FakeProphet,

Disclaimers are required because many Muslims (eg from Turkey) come from secular societies and live moderate, secular lives.

In fact, I would prefer the Muslims I know to the Christians, because the former aren't vocal and pushy about their beliefs. Not to say that Islam isn't just as silly as any other religion, but if you want to pick on religions, then Christianity, Judaism and Buddhism are just as bad. So why give Muslims special treatment?

I do hear your argument that there is currently a higher incidence of terrorism coming from people espousing extreme forms of Islam. This certainly needs to be combated. But it seems better to discriminate between friendlies and combatants than between one set of people who have an imaginary friend and another set of people who also have an imaginary friend.

G.O.D.
_________________________
SATAN, a recursive acronym invented by GOD: "SATAN: Advocating The Adversarial Nihilist"

Top
#26905 - 07/07/09 08:00 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: fakepropht]
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
 Originally Posted By: fakepropht
By feeling the need to add a disclaimer like that, it only shows they are winning.


I'm not showing any such thing, for the simple reason I'm pretty sure that no Muslim will read this forum. I added this because I truly mean it. I know some Muslims, who enjoy practicing their religion, but totally agree with the fact they have to adapt their traditions to the country they live in, and actually they do ! If every Muslim was like them, I wouldn't give a damn about Islam in France. But still, some intelligent people exist, and I think it's worth recalling it.

I wouldn't say Islam has to be eradicated. That would mean forbid people to practice the religion they want. That's totalitarism. We obviously have the right to say "Hey, mate, you're not allowed to do it, even if you do it because of your religion. Laws first.", and that's what we should keep doing. But I'll never tell anyone "Your religion is crap, give it up", or support any law forbidding any religion. That's not Islam that should be moderated, but what people do for it, their acts, what really enters in conflict with our laws.

As I said before, that's two different things. And trust me, I'm not letting Islamism win. I'll stand against every little trick the Islamic organisations try to set up in France to corrupt our laws, because they actually do.
_________________________
In the end everyone dies...

Top
#26906 - 07/07/09 09:39 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Impius]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3114
 Quote:
As I said before, that's two different things. And trust me, I'm not letting Islamism win. I'll stand against every little trick the Islamic organisations try to set up in France to corrupt our laws, because they actually do.

Corrupting laws?
Most "new laws" concerning muslims are being brought to life because of certain Islamic principles, codes and ideas. This ban some see as a "victory" over Islam is actually a silent evidence Islamic ideas are taking over western civilisation, that muslims aren't "integrating in our culture" but in fact are starting to leech it.

Normally I wouldn't care as long as I am left alone and my own moral codes aren't being violated.. But such things indicate to me something IS going on which might bother me. I'm not afraid to be called racist when I step up to silence their religion and am protesting (by any means possible) to limit their "rights" which they achieved by pressure and feelings of guilt.

It's better to avoid then to cure...

Don't get me wrong, as a person I have nothing against the religion itself, in fact I have nothing against any kind of religion. But within my views this is still the 21st century and religion is something which should be limited so it doesn't rule or interrupt the social community in which we, or better: I, live in.



Edited by Dimitri (07/07/09 09:40 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#26918 - 07/07/09 04:14 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: god.over.djinn]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: god.over.djinn
FakeProphet,

Disclaimers are required because many Muslims (eg from Turkey) come from secular societies and live moderate, secular lives.


I disagree, it's a double standard. People already know that not all Muslims are terrorists, you don't need to make the disclaimer, otherwise you'd feel the same need when people say Christians are homophobes, Christian Priests rape little boys and Christian Churches are money grabbing pyramid schemes. It's a generalisation, and people are aware of that, you're just scared of offending the psychos in the world.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26935 - 07/08/09 10:28 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Dimitri]
Impius Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/08/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Lille, France
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Most "new laws" concerning muslims are being brought to life because of certain Islamic principles, codes and ideas. This ban some see as a "victory" over Islam is actually a silent evidence Islamic ideas are taking over western civilisation, that muslims aren't "integrating in our culture" but in fact are starting to leech it.


Well, that depends on the point of view you take. I think that in theory, Muslims can perfectly adapt to and live in our western civilization as long as they're able to follow its rules and accept its culture (which doesn't mean deny their own). In practice I must confess things don't seem to go very well about it... Is there really such an incompatibility ? However, they're the ones who come, they're the ones who've got to change to fit in. And we're supposed to be the ones who don't look at them in a bad way when they arrive. That may already be too late...
_________________________
In the end everyone dies...

Top
#26979 - 07/09/09 06:16 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: Impius]
god.over.djinn Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 75
Loc: Melbourne
Hi TC,

It is easy to say "oh, everybody knows not all Muslims are terrorists". That doesn't change the fact that a certain level of prejudice exists in the west towards people with darkish-coloured skin and funky headgear. Nor does it change the fact that people who do not share this prejudice will wish to make a pre-emptive strike against bigots, because living in a society with bigots reduces one's personal quality of life.

Disclaimers help pre-emptively diffuse accusations of unjustified prejudice in situations where such accusations might otherwise be made.

G.O.D.
_________________________
SATAN, a recursive acronym invented by GOD: "SATAN: Advocating The Adversarial Nihilist"

Top
#26986 - 07/09/09 07:34 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: god.over.djinn]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I understand that G.O.D, I can see the point of a disclaimer and in some cases they are requires. The thing is, people almost always make disclaimers about Islam and Muslims when discussing terrorism as though they're trying to say "It's OK, we know terrorism and Islam are different things", when really, they're fucking not. Terrorism and Islam are extremely links. Sure not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslims, but there is a strong link between the two, and when people make those disclaimers they're being disingenuous to the public and themselves but pretending that what they're referring to is an isolated incident.

The obvious parallel, as I've already said, is that we don't make the disclaimer:-
I know not all Christians are homophobes and I'm not claiming that all homophobia is due to Christianity
When we discuss things like anti gay marriage, or people beating up gay people in the street, etc, because the Bible and Christian ideals ARE the most common reasons behind homophobia and even if they don't want to admit it, Christians at least accept this to themselves.

This is why I say it's a double standard. Muslims will have a riot and cause shit because we dare to link something bad to Islam, Christians, and other groups, rarely kick up such a stink, they're prepared to swallow their faults.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#26988 - 07/09/09 07:48 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
The Qua'ran is actually a pretty non-violent book from what I remember about reading it. One of the biggest issues with in the schism of Islam, aside from the debate concerning lineage and ascension, is the interpretation of Jihad. Some feel the Jihad is more of a personal and mental concept, others feel Jihad is an all out war on anyone who isn't Muslim.

They have their fair share of nut jobs just like every other religion out there. All countries make war to try to assert their values onto other people/countries. Whether those values be religious, political, economical etc. don't really matter.

People don't like to see their own faults but will certainly be quick to point out the faults of another even if the faults are shared by both parties.

Concerning the discalimers, it is much like a disclaimer made by a person about to make a racist joke. *Looks around* "Dude, you know I'm not racist, but..." If you feel that something you are about say needs a disclaimer, then don't say it. Or, and this may be asking too much, you could just stop being a pussy.

Note: The use of the word "you" was generalized and not directed at anyone specific. You know who you are ;\)
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#26992 - 07/09/09 11:41 PM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Thank you TC. That was what I was trying to convey. I guess I didn't do a great job at it.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

Top
#26994 - 07/10/09 12:14 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
I personally think that Burkas are at once ridiculous and humiliating, and should be spoken out against- but not outlawed.

Many view it as a sign of oppression, and they are right- but the fact remains is that there are even women who WANT to wear burkas, who actually want to live up to the super-conservative-Islamic ideals of "modesty". Why should any type of clothing be outlawed? If I wanted to walk down the street wearing a sheet over my head (it's an example, guys), it seems absurd that I would have the right to because I am a non-Muslim male, but women are prohibited from doing the same thing.

In fact, this will probably backfire- conservative Muslims will most certainly rise up to the challenge and wear the burka more than usual, in the Jihidi spirit of defiance against the infidel (or make their wives wear it more).

Again, the PROBLEM is not women wearing cheap Halloween costumes every day- the problem is that you have ultra-religious households where the women are completely enslaved to the men. Passing a law suppressing a symptom of the problem will not affect actual heart of the matter...

ie, trying to outlaw the burka will not change the fact that Islam is fucking retarded.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#27187 - 07/17/09 07:50 AM Islamic Supremacist Group Holds US Conference [Re: The Zebu]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I posted this in the Burka Ban thread, because I feel that this article is related to the OT.

A group committed to establishing an international Islamic empire and reportedly linked to Al Qaeda is stepping up its Western recruitment efforts by holding its first official conference in the U.S.

Phares said that Hizb ut-Tahrir, rather than training members to carry out terrorist acts like Al Qaeda, focuses instead on indoctrinating youths between ages of 9 and 18 to absorb the ideology that calls for the formation of an empire -- or "khilafah" -- that will rule according to Islamic law and condones any means to achieve it, including militant jihad.

Hizb ut-Tahrir often says that its indoctrination "prepares the infantry" that groups like Al Qaeda take into battle, Phares said.


Full article

How is this group NOT on a watch list? I'm all for free speech, but personally I think permitting this conference is crossing a line. Just as troubling, this group has operated "underground" for decades here in the States.

Allowing this movement to hold conferences and attract new members is simply setting the US up to become an über-PC state, like Holland and the UK, where, just because they're not technically breaking any laws, it's ok. Definitely a loop-hole that needs to be closed. But then, that would make it illegal for US citizens to meet and discuss overthrowing the current government we have now.

A double-edged sword, that by not cutting our enemies' throat, we cut our own instead.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#27188 - 07/17/09 08:00 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: The Zebu]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I don't know where you got the idea that I thought the burka should be outlawed. I never said that it should. I agree that there are women who indeed want to wear them. I have seen these women at my school. I always thought it was funny that they still chose to wear them here, not like they will be stoned to death if they choose not to, but I never once thought they shouldn't be able to. Not like it takes any skin off my dick if they want to wear them.

I will also agree that Islam is retarded, but, it is no more retarded than any of the other religions out there. Unless you think a talking snake makes more sense than the belief that a woman who dare to show her face should be put to death, or at the very least, severely beaten.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#27196 - 07/17/09 10:51 AM Re: French Ban on Burka [Re: TornadoCreator]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3114
My actual view on the burka is that I simply don't care how people dress themselves.
I do not care how they even look in the first place or what their religion is, BUT there are always certain manners which SHOULD be obeyed.

I prefer to see my fellow humans when speaking to them in person.
I prefer that certain codes of dressing are being followed for every occasion.
I prefer also that people speak the language in the country in which they live in.

Obeyeing such things is called "integration". It hurts my feelings and makes me "angry" when someone who claims to be integrated even dares to say it when not obeying one of these codes.

I do not mind when one of those walking trashbins and her husband passes me on the street, (and even tough it never occurs) I would be very happy if they obeyed the codes whom are circling here for the appropriate moment.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#27197 - 07/17/09 11:21 AM Re: Islamic Supremacist Group Holds US Conference [Re: Nemesis]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
I'm kicking myself because I can't remember for the life of me the author or the name of the book. A couple of weeks back, a local radio host conducted an interview with a former "terrorist". He has written a book about what is going on, what their methods are, how they think, and what to expect. Specifically focuses on the USA and Europe. In the interview, he mentioned that they are trying to integrate into society. Marry a native. Work their way into the family structure. Fly under the radar. Then they become a vocal force. Trying to change laws and customs to suit them. They run for office. They attend meetings and hearings of public office and make themselves heard.

In his book, he alleges that the new terrorism is not strapping bombs to one's self or blowing up buildings, it is flying under the radar and forcing reforms by being active, vocal, and adamant for change and equal rights.

Look around folks. It is already happening and succeeding.

I will try to find the interview or the author and book. It was very compelling. I sat in my truck on a hot summer day in the parking lot to hear it from start to finish.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

Top
#27199 - 07/17/09 12:58 PM Re: Islamic Supremacist Group Holds US Conference [Re: fakepropht]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF

Google around for CARE International. While a huge portion of their work is humanitarian, they also have a robust legal program who's aim is to impose Islam on Western countries.

The vast majority of Muslims are not radicals. Perhaps only 25% or less of them even give passing approval to the radicals. A much smaller number, maybe 10% or so are actually ideological or material supporters of radical Islam. Less than 1% are potentially dangerous militants. But, that is less than 1% of 1,000,000,000 people. And, due to the insanity of Islam, the majority of them are disenfranchised young men with little prospect of decent employment, marriage, children and overall success in life. This is fertile ground for terrorist recruiters.

The problem with Islam is that the majority of 'normal' Muslims will NOT speak out against the radical elements. To speak negatively of a brother Muslim is 'haram' (unclean, forbidden, un-Islamic). And, the majority of Muslims live in fear of the more insane and radical elements of the sect. Less than 1% of all of Islam is holding the other billion people hostage and taking them down the road to ruin. Even in the West, honor and revenge killings are common place among Muslims. More importantly, even Western Muslims live with the knowledge that they can be targeted at any time if they dare to speak out or buck the status quo.

It is not that all Muslims are terrorists, it is that ALL Muslims support terrorism in some way. Silence is consent. And, if pressed by their fellows, ALL Muslims WILL support terrorism.

Thus endeth the lesson....
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
#27215 - 07/18/09 04:29 AM Re: Islamic Supremacist Group Holds US Conference [Re: Fist]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
There is a valid reason for the burqa, according to the women who don them.

The reason is that it makes life less complicated for them. They are less likely to be hit on (attempts at usurping their marriage are less likely) and competition between females is moved from who has the better body to who has the better ability.

Not that I condone or condemn either way. I'm of the opinion that if they want to wear the shit, they should be able to. It's not hurting me one way or the other and frankly, I enjoy the idea that the FBI has to actually work to earn their pay. I don't see how it's doing any more damage to anyone else's way of life than - say - the american obsession with porn.

I have spoken at length with women who dress accordingly and they all say the same things: it simplifies things and it creates a less-dramatic life for them. What or who are they really hurting? Seriously. If these women want to be ultra-conservative and they want to be 1830's about their life, why stop them?

I can see their point and I personally feel that they should have the right to dress how they want just like any tart on garrison avenue has the right to wear clothes that leave absolutely NOTHING to the imagination. Why are we bitching about this? It's fuckin' clothes, people. Nothing more, nothing less. You can't really rally around the right to let one's tits hang out without also acknowledging one's rights to cover them up.

Top
Page all of 4 1234>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.059 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 59 queries. Zlib compression disabled.