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#26383 - 06/28/09 11:36 AM Money of the Left Hand Path
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I thought I would start this thread because I know a thing or two about money. I would like to see my fellow travelers not just survive but thrive.

In general I think this should just be a free form discussion of all things financial. Have a question, ask it. Have an idea, post it.

Today, let me start with something that I am very concerned about at the moment. As you all may know we are in a global recession. This recession may be long and deep. And, the solution national govts are taking will only make matters worse. We are throwing good money after bad to prop up industries that should simply fail in free market. And, in essence, we are printing money out of whole cloth so we can hand it out with no strings attached.

Many people are very concerned about this and the smart money is investing in things with intrinsic value.

Personally, like most people, my stock portfolio is way down. My home is still more than twice what I paid for it but I would be hard pressed find a buyer in this market. The value of my guns and ammo are way up. Don't laugh, there is a huge market in the US for guns and even ammo. Ammo I bought 3 year ago for less than $0.30 a round is now worth a dollar or more PER ROUND. All of my guns are worth more than I paid for them. Some have doubled or tripled in value in just the last few years.

As a person who generally prepares for the apocalypse, I do have some gold, silver, precious and semi-precious gems. I bought my gold years ago when the market was roaring and gold was cheap. As the price crept toward a $1000 per troy ounce I pretty much left it alone. But given the current state of affairs and our disastrous monetary policy, I thought it would be a good start buying a little bit of extra gold now and again. My current rule is to buy only when the price dips below $900 and $800 is a definite 'buy.' I bought most of my silver around $8 but in today's market $15 is a more realistic price.

If you have been following the news, many people who have never bought guns before are buying guns. There is a run on ammo and it is very expensive if you can even find it at all. For a few months there was a run on small home safes. Home Depot could not keep them in stock. So it should come as no surprise that people are also hording gold and silver. But, today I was shocked to find out that the US Mint was out of gold and silver coins. Out! As in none in stock! And, they don't know when they will have more. The message on their site indicates that the Mint is waiting for more gold and silver bullion in sufficient quantities to resume the minting of coins. WTF?

Yes kids, yet another sign of the apocalypse.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#26388 - 06/28/09 02:23 PM Re: Money of the Left Hand Path [Re: Fist]
Demonic Moroni Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 18
Loc: Arizona
 Quote:
Personally, like most people, my stock portfolio is way down. My home is still more than twice what I paid for it but I would be hard pressed find a buyer in this market. The value of my guns and ammo are way up. Don't laugh, there is a huge market in the US for guns and even ammo. Ammo I bought 3 year ago for less than $0.30 a round is now worth a dollar or more PER ROUND. All of my guns are worth more than I paid for them. Some have doubled or tripled in value in just the last few years.


Damn. I was really wanting to buy a gun when I get my own place. Looks like that's going to be a major investment, now.

 Quote:
But, today I was shocked to find out that the US Mint was out of gold and silver coins. Out! As in none in stock! And, they don't know when they will have more. The message on their site indicates that the Mint is waiting for more gold and silver bullion in sufficient quantities to resume the minting of coins. WTF?


That's really surprising to me, too. I have an (extremely) modest collection of silver, and I understand the precious metals crowd, but I never thought this would get so extreme that the Mint would run out! Craziness!

 Quote:
Yes kids, yet another sign of the apocalypse.


Hardly. It's bad, but I think the bulk of this recession's teeth is just how freaked out people got. Once they calm down, things will begin resuming.
_________________________
"Here I stand; I can do no otherwise."
Shemhamforash!
Hail Satan

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#26389 - 06/28/09 02:31 PM Re: Money of the Left Hand Path [Re: Fist]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
My boyfriend and I are of the same mind as you, Fist. Maybe not so much of the Apocalypse Now mind, but pretty close ;). We also have several safes, one downstairs that is large enough to fit several bodies into, bolted into the floor, fireproof, digital locking system. He's also invested in guns, ammo, and precious metals. He's bought a couple of "safe queens" as an investment, and we have more ammo stacked in the closets around the house than I can count. And to hell with buying gold and silver from the US Mint....Canadian Maple Leaves are still widely available and come in the same size as the US Golden Eagle.

These kinds of liquid assets are certainly a boon as far as having a "just in case" back up plan. If people don't have a Plan B to fall back on when shit really starts to hit the fan, they deserve to be left homeless or penniless. There have been plenty of warning signs over the last couple of years that this was going to happen. Plenty of time to have been stocking up, planting gardens, trimming the fat, aka selling off useless crap they don't need.

Speaking of which, anyone interested in a 26' twin-outboard engine boat? Asking for $20K \:\)

I also have a condo I'm interested in selling. Just under 1000 sq. ft, 2bed/1.5 bath, asking $75K. A fuckin' steal, I tell ya.
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Nothing is sacred.

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#26393 - 06/28/09 04:36 PM Re: Money of the Left Hand Path [Re: Nemesis]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Personally, I don't have a David Koresh style plan for the 'End Times' but it would be imprudent not to be prepared in some form or fashion.

A few years ago FEMA started issuing instructions to the public about how to seal your home in the event you have to 'shelter in place.'

FEMA is actively encouraging people to be more aware of disaster preparedness. They even have a whole online university where you can take classes on the subject for free.

Hurricane Katrina should have taught a lot of people a thing or two about self-reliance.

In any event, their is absolutely nothing wrong with the Canadian Maple Leaf. And yes, they are available. I think that has more to do with the fact that Canadians generally put more faith in govt. Americans tend to want to hold the American Eagle and the US Mint and gold dealers have heavily promoted it. As a general rule, I would avoid more obscure coins that dealers may not be as familiar with. The American Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf, British Sovereign and Swiss Franc are all well recognized. Purely out of tradition I have a soft spot for the Gold Krugerrand. But, as a general rule, I think it is best to own your national coins in the event of severe economic collapse - unless of course your plan involves fleeing to Switzerland.

Now, all of that being said, the end is not near but you don't want to start planning at the last minute. I was just shocked the US Mint ran out of gold. It is a bit more troubling when you think of the reason why.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#26394 - 06/28/09 04:52 PM Re: Money of the Left Hand Path [Re: Fist]
Demonic Moroni Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 18
Loc: Arizona
I think the U.S. silver coins are much nicer to look at, but I own a Canadian Maple leaf that I'm quite proud of, as well.

I agree with Fist, here, don't get too obscure with your coinage. To illustrate, I was reading a copy of the Tanakh in school once, and people thought it wasn't the same as a Christian Old Testament! (I know that there are differences between the two, such as book order, but work with me here.) The point is is that it's awfully easy to confuse people, so you should make an effort to be understood, lest you get screwed over by that misunderstanding.
_________________________
"Here I stand; I can do no otherwise."
Shemhamforash!
Hail Satan

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#26395 - 06/28/09 05:02 PM Re: Money of the Left Hand Path [Re: Fist]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Fist
Purely out of tradition I have a soft spot for the Gold Krugerrand.


Just an aside...

When I was in Vietnam, I volunteered for a second tour and got my reup bonus. A whopping $2,000, which in 1970 dollars was "whopping" to a young GI. As I was getting the paperwork signed, an old Army hard-sarge said, "If I were you, I would invest in a few Krugerands. "What the hell is a Krugerand, I asked." Well, they were $35... a lot of money at the time. I had $2,000. I could pay some bills and R&R for a week out of the war zone. It was a matter of the much fabled "bird in the hand" and two in the bush.

Well, for my $2,000, I could have bought approximately 55 Krugerands (plus commission fees.) Last check this week, a Krugerand was worth $1,038. My $2,000 investment would have been worth $57,090.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#26464 - 06/30/09 01:20 PM Re: Money of the Left Hand Path [Re: Jake999]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
Gold is gold, no matter where it hails from. Ditto silver. The value of the metal is not affected by the clothes it wears.

I started hoarding metals and gems back when you could pick up a troy of silver for about six dollars. I switched to other things when the price crept up over 13. I'm not too terribly worried about being the post-apocolyptic Rockefeller. I see people around me every day who wouldn't know how to even feed their family without KFC. If the shit does decide to officially and formally hit the fan, just knowing how to create the three basic needs without the aid of society gives a person a hell of a lot of trading power. Children going hungry? What is it worth to you to feed them? Sick baby? What will you give the person who makes it healthy?

In a SHTF situation, gold, silver, and gems are not the only things that will have trade-value. The person who can bring the masses closest to what they know will be the person with the most wealth.

Metals, gems, ammo, guns...yes, those things are very important investments, but one would be wise to also invest in defensible land, food seeds, and most importantly, KNOWLEDGE. In my circle of like-minded friends, everyone has a basic overall knowledge of everything necessary to survive *whatever* but each person also has an area of specialty, and that special knowledge is sometimes even more valuable than anything that can be physically traded.

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#26466 - 06/30/09 01:53 PM Re: Money of the Left Hand Path [Re: ceruleansteel]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
LOL! Just using the Krugerrand as an example, CS. Back in the musty-dusties, it was the only gold coin being aggressively produced and promoted for investment/sales outside of its country of origin.

You're definitely right, CS. If you went into a major survival mode, it's quite possible that even gold could lose its glitter, depending on just how bad it gets. How much is gold worth to a man who's starving or dying of thirst? How much is gold worth if one's child is in need of a simple course of Cipro?

In a post apocalyptic scenario, everything from thread to women could become valuable commodities.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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