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#25437 - 06/06/09 01:28 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: NDawg]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"If I am proved wrong about something...."

You still dont get it....

No one cares to prove to you anything. You have to learn stuff for yourelf.

Why do you need a religion anyway?

Its not really going to make you feel any better about yourself. If your not happy with your life in a small town, MOVE and START OVER....

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#25438 - 06/06/09 01:37 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: NDawg]
miriam Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 90
Loc: Seattle, WA
one "joins" the circus. one doesn't "join" a belief system. you "stick" with a diet, not a belief system. you either believe something or you don't. why wait until someone proves you wrong to eradicate your misconceptions? don't you have a library in your home town? you're online- can't you buy books or something? and get out of your comfort zone! don't allow yourself to stagnate.

"go with what you feel"? that's a classic cop-out. as far as vegetarianism is concerned, i lived in a casino town of less than 500 people last summer, a town where there was no grocery store (i'm betting your town has one, no excuses), and the only four restaurants in town served fried food and pizza. i am vegan. and i lived through the summer, in fact, i ate well. but, i'm hardly going to tell you what to buy. really, you can't be handed everything on a silver platter.

where there is a will, there is a way.








Edited by miriam (06/06/09 01:53 AM)
_________________________
"Your body is the church where Nature asks to be reverenced."

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#25439 - 06/06/09 01:53 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: NDawg]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
I've been trying to go vegetarian, but living in a small town like I do, you really don't get many options. Just about the only place that has a true vegetarian option is subway. And I've got a pretty good sized grudge against wallmart.


How about your own kitchen you fucking moron?
That's the biggest copout I've read of yours yet. I would be a vege, but they just don't cater to me that way where I live, hurrumph, you can leave this site now, every cliche dumb thing you could possibly say has been satifatorily acheived.


Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#25457 - 06/06/09 01:02 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: NDawg]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
Perhaps what you need is not even intellectual.

Instead of working to prove your ideas wrong, why don't you work on building up your own will and survival nature? Putting yourself in touch with the part of you that would slit your neighbors throat if your only nourishment were their blood definitely shakes the bedrock of your personal character.

My suggestion? Grab a pocketknife and a plastic bag and spend a week in the Smokies. Test your convictions to yourself and your ability to actually fight for something. I spent a week in the desert in NM once and even though I practically starved during that week, it was a very enriching experience and taught me a lot about myself, my limits, and even my opinions. Mentally, I grew by years in that week. The reason why everyone is attacking you is because you are obviously green in a way that can barely be defined. Being proved wrong is not the point. Being challenged is the point. If you spend your life skating from one thing to the next and never really being challenged then you are missing the most vital piece of education that the world offers.

And because you skate so easily, you are probably not getting challenged to a point that serves the real purpose of BEING challenged. I suggest a challenge with REAL consequences, because the lessons that you need will not be found in any other place.

One of the core ideals of Satanism is an attitude of active responsibility and accountability. There is also the idea of NOT sitting back and saying, "Oh, I can't do that because they don't readily hand it to me." I am NOT a vegan. But when I vacationed in the middle of the woods with only enough supplies to fit in a small satchel, I became a vegetarian for a week, eating only wild fruits and plants and a few fish that were dumb enough to fall for my blackberry-on-a string ploy.

What you need is not a religion or a philosophy. What you need is life experience. You need your physical limits tested. You need your ability to survive and adapt tested. You need to find your mental strengths and weaknesses and be forced to either adapt or die (well, as close as one can get to that in this world of McDonalds and Walmart).

Nothing that I have ever subjected myself (or my kids, I teach survivalism to them as well) to would hold a candle to - say - the things experienced by a soldier at war or a person struggling in a third world country (I could have walked out of the desert in about five hours and could have been in town and out of the woods in probably one hour), but doing that would never have taught me a thing.

Experience is what brings wisdom and maturity. And it is blatantly obvious that you have very little of either.


Edited by ceruleansteel (06/06/09 01:05 PM)
Edit Reason: forgot about maturity

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#25471 - 06/07/09 12:00 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ShadowsAndVapors]
Tommy Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 10
Satanism is not about believing in a god that will help you when you fulfill his will, even if it’s an «evil» one. Do not expect to get Satan’s protection in exchange for human or animal sacrifice. Satan, the mystical god, doesn’t exist. He exists as a human. In fact, he exists as thousands of them: the Satanists.

As a Satanist I create an image of «god» and try my best to live up to it. That «god» doesn’t exist, that’s the god that I can become, and it’s one based only on my own logical principals, not society’s unexplained ones. So I act according to my will and intelligence, not fearing a Hell of eternal punishment, or desiring a Heaven of eternal glory, because I know that those places exist only on earth, and their definitions differ from person to person. Greatness is for the living, and when you die you’re remembered for your lifetime achievements. For answers about an afterlife, go talk to the dead.

Yes, we’re the enemies. We live outside the mainstream and accept no religious bullshit principles that can’t be logically explained. We rely on no unknown force to help us achieving our goals, and we oppose to the ones that do. We also have to face the fact that we’re each other’s enemies too: it will come the day that all human gods will rise and their necessities and powers will clash. Only the strong amongst the strong will stand.
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#25765 - 06/19/09 01:55 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ceruleansteel]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
Good point. I think I'll take you up on that. That may be the most sound advice I've heard in five years. Thanks for lettin' me know. And you have challenged me. Now I have to prove myself to myself. Dammit. Ya broke me down. That really is sound advice. I'm seriously impressed. This should be fun.
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#25804 - 06/19/09 08:42 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Draculesti]
Ethophobia Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 26
Loc: Texas
In total disregard of everyone else, I read the OP and responded. Sorry if this bumps things off track.

I am an atheistic satanist. Atheism is not, by me, seen as simply denouncing that divinity may or may not exist. I simply agree, for now, that science has yet to prove or disprove it, so I default into the 'no' category. At any time I can feel free to look at the information, re-evaluate and change my mind. Thus is another satanic luxury.

In that respect, I dont belong to the Church of Satan, nor do I take part in any of the ceremony, ritual or pomp that theistic satanists may or may not take part in. Consider me simply a more scientific aspect of your doctrine. I think that, given the circumstances of our positions, we should be able to affirm that the other may, or may not, be correct (or incorrect). Satanic folks should be able to peaceably coexist almost implicitly, given the nature of the beast.. but I am digressing. I apologize.

In that I grant calling myself a satanist without believing in satan would be ridiculous. And I would welcome any jokes at my expense if that were the case. I simply have a different view of what satan is, and what satan does. Satan, as he is depicted in any kind of spiritual, or godly, or angelic or whatever, fashion, is inevitably just a mental manifestation of the dark side (see: Shadow) of the collective unconscious.

Oh, but how can I believe in collective unconscious and shadow, yet denounce satan? Easily. Look around you. Where is your angel? Where is your Pan, your Anubis, your Hel, your green fires of Bael? I see none. I see humanity, ebbing and flowing to some diabolical tune. I see it as my duty to decipher the symphony from the noise. That is not to say that you are absolutely wrong, or that I am absolutely right. It just means I am a little more skeptical, thats all.

Thats how we atheistics, or at least THIS atheistic, "works".

"Come, ye Gilgamesh, and show me the power that humanity had wrought."
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#25826 - 06/20/09 09:46 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Ethophobia]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: Ethophobia
In total disregard of everyone else, I read the OP and responded. Sorry if this bumps things off track.

I am an atheistic satanist. Atheism is not, by me, seen as simply denouncing that divinity may or may not exist. I simply agree, for now, that science has yet to prove or disprove it, so I default into the 'no' category. At any time I can feel free to look at the information, re-evaluate and change my mind. Thus is another satanic luxury.{/quote]

That makes you an Atheist. You don't actively believe in God, thus you're an Atheist.

[quote=Ethophobia]In that respect, I dont belong to the Church of Satan, nor do I take part in any of the ceremony, ritual or pomp that theistic satanists may or may not take part in. Consider me simply a more scientific aspect of your doctrine. I think that, given the circumstances of our positions, we should be able to affirm that the other may, or may not, be correct (or incorrect). Satanic folks should be able to peaceably coexist almost implicitly, given the nature of the beast.. but I am digressing. I apologize.


The ceremonial and ritual aspects of Satanism are not theistically driven. They are emotionally driven. It's hedonism, pure and simple.

 Originally Posted By: Ethophobia
In that I grant calling myself a satanist without believing in satan would be ridiculous. And I would welcome any jokes at my expense if that were the case. I simply have a different view of what satan is, and what satan does. Satan, as he is depicted in any kind of spiritual, or godly, or angelic or whatever, fashion, is inevitably just a mental manifestation of the dark side (see: Shadow) of the collective unconscious.


Read the Satanic Bible, you might learn something. What you have stated is a very crude variant of what the Satanic Bible teaches. That Satan is a symbol nothing more. Calling yourself a Satanist if you believe in the deity Satan is very much inaccurate, the correct noun to call yourself by would be Idiot. However that said, calling yourself Satanist now would be inaccurate. You need to read more, learn more, at least learn the basic ideals and philosophies. Then come back and you may belong, but not before then.

 Originally Posted By: Ethophobia
Oh, but how can I believe in collective unconscious and shadow, yet denounce satan? Easily. Look around you. Where is your angel? Where is your Pan, your Anubis, your Hel, your green fires of Bael? I see none. I see humanity, ebbing and flowing to some diabolical tune. I see it as my duty to decipher the symphony from the noise. That is not to say that you are absolutely wrong, or that I am absolutely right. It just means I am a little more skeptical, thats all.


You're not more sceptical than me. I am a sceptic in everything I do and learn, whilst maintaining an extremist stance. It's difficult to explain, and many people would assume I'm certain of many things, but I never am.

 Originally Posted By: Ethophobia
Thats how we atheistics, or at least THIS atheistic, "works".


Atheistics? You mean atheists surely.

You're poorly informed. You're letting yourself in for much ridicule if you carry on making the assumptions you have here. I suggest you lurk more, read more, and learn more before you say something stupid to someone less forgiving.
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#25868 - 06/20/09 11:15 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
Ethophobia Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 26
Loc: Texas
I happen to enjoy being a poorly informed idiot that has no exterior knowledge and has obviously never read the TSB or had anything to do with Satanism. In fact, I am a fluff and should be banned as a troll.

In fact, I am glad you brought up some interesting points. All of which I will gladly let you have your way with. Toss me around like a petty little rag-doll and see if I come out with a sense of dignity. That is the kind of thing I live for.

Make no mistake. I read the TSB every other fucking day. I need not even do that in order to know what I am, no matter if it is a crude derision from your "norm" or not. From the looks of things, I am happily outside of your box, dancing merrily along the path. I could explain to you the studying I have done, the researching, the soul searching, but it would not mean a damned thing to you so long as you are trapped within the bubble of what you think is the right way, and what you think is the wrong way. Don't bother telling me I am wrong, you stated your case and failed miserably trying to denounce who I am or what I do.

As far as the ritualistic hedonism goes, I could not care less. I have had my fill of occult pipe dreams and ceremonial degradation and trying to bend the forces at work around me to my will through wearing funky clothing, using some items I call sacred, and freaking people out. My force of will needs no tools of that sort. I am my own god and my will be done.. by me, not the tools and the moment in some fabricated sense of power.

Satan may be a symbol, but it really means nothing. I am empowered not by some external symbol, I am fueled godless. I need no symbol, or any external force at all besides my will to simply be here, in this moment, doing what makes me happy. In making myself happy, I am able to make others happy. And in turn, they move on to do the same. Why? Because I make it that way. Again, not by petty doctrine, or ceremonious hedonism to alight the mood in such a way that I can properly focus my power. My views have to be like yours, Anton LaVey's, or any other self-centered egotist among the 600 Flock in order to work? If thats the case, then to hell with all that noise, I would rather walk in my own error than walk in anyone elses.

Then again, maybe you are right. Let it be known that I am exactly what TornadoCreator says I am.

HA!

It seems there are many here who think in just the same ways those suckers at the pulpit do. "Your way is wrong." "My way is right." "Your just an idiot." Did you even watch critical thinking and open-mindedness? Its on the home page, check it out some time. All y'all. It might do you some good to keep trying to berate people who are not you, but sooner or later you are going to realize what you should have realized long ago..

_________________________
You are all fucked and overrated. I think I am going to be sick, and its your fault.

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#25879 - 06/21/09 07:33 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Ethophobia]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Ok... Etho, you clearly took my last post as more confrontational than it was originally intended.

You believe in a collective conciousness, this alone will get you ridiculed by people. Why? Because you have no evidence by which to assert this belief. You claim to be the ultimate sceptic yet have made a faith based claim, this will get you ridiculed. You are excessive in your assertion of individuality and your knowledge of Satanism and all that's good but you push it too far and it sounds big headed. Also, you don't read the posts here properly, otherwise you'd realise I wasn't calling you an idiot, I was calling theistic "Satanists" idiots but assessing that you're not one of them, re-read, you'll see what I mean.

Now, I've spoken to you in the forum and on the chat, you're an interesting person and seem quite intelligent, but you need to think more before you write like this, you're not winning anything by carrying on in this fashion, you're just exacerbating things.
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#25895 - 06/21/09 01:55 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
Ethophobia Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 26
Loc: Texas
Who said I was trying to win anything? There is no win lose when you socially attack me. You did come across as confrontational, and that is why I am coming forward the way I am.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator

You believe in a collective conciousness, this alone will get you ridiculed by people.

So, you say I believe in a collective consciousness?

I lawl at your fail.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=collective+unconscious

Might I suggest the Wikipedia source? It has some good information.

All in all, I believe I have made it quite obvious that the ridicule of other people rolls off my back fairly easily. Honestly, it is the pot calling the kettle black. Stupid huddles masses yearning for a scapegoat. I will be a scapegoat, why not? I have been so many other things that scapegoat seems to fit just right anyway. All in all, however, I could give a good god damn less if people make fun of me. I was made fun of all through my life, and my skin has toughened because of it.

I do indeed believe in a collective unconscious, and I have seen many proofs for its existence, both in the lab and in the world. Many others in the psychology field believe the theory as well. When it all boils down, neither you, nor anyone in this forum, nor myself have the tiniest idea about what is really going on in the universe. Again, when you ridicule for beliefs like you just did, the only thing you succeed at is looking like a fucking tool.

Enjoy.
_________________________
You are all fucked and overrated. I think I am going to be sick, and its your fault.

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#25901 - 06/21/09 04:24 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Ethophobia]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: Ethophobia
Who said I was trying to win anything? There is no win lose when you socially attack me. You did come across as confrontational, and that is why I am coming forward the way I am.

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator

You believe in a collective conciousness, this alone will get you ridiculed by people.

So, you say I believe in a collective consciousness?


When someone on this forum starts picking on spelling errors it's usually because they can't win the argument, either you have an argument or you don't, but don't fight with my spellchecker it just makes you look silly.

 Originally Posted By: Ethophobia
I lawl at your fail.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=collective+unconscious

Might I suggest the Wikipedia source? It has some good information.

Intriguing

 Originally Posted By: Ethophobia
All in all, I believe I have made it quite obvious that the ridicule of other people rolls off my back fairly easily. Honestly, it is the pot calling the kettle black. Stupid huddles masses yearning for a scapegoat. I will be a scapegoat, why not? I have been so many other things that scapegoat seems to fit just right anyway. All in all, however, I could give a good god damn less if people make fun of me. I was made fun of all through my life, and my skin has toughened because of it.

I personally don't like ridicule, if it's your idea of a good time by all means. It looks like my error in this case though so I can hold my hands up and admit when I'm wrong.

 Originally Posted By: Ethophobia
I do indeed believe in a collective unconscious, and I have seen many proofs for its existence, both in the lab and in the world. Many others in the psychology field believe the theory as well. When it all boils down, neither you, nor anyone in this forum, nor myself have the tiniest idea about what is really going on in the universe. Again, when you ridicule for beliefs like you just did, the only thing you succeed at is looking like a fucking tool.

Enjoy.

I don't believe it, I will however accept it as a reasonable and supported scientific claim. Believing a scientific claim is stupid. Science changes all the time. You can accept it, assume it's most likely true etc., but you should always be looking for faults because invariably it's going to be wrong and the theory will be refined or disproved in the future. This is the nature of science.

That said, it appears I misread your post. I'll be more careful in the future.
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#25907 - 06/21/09 04:48 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

Believing a scientific claim is stupid. Science changes all the time. You can accept it, assume it's most likely true etc., but you should always be looking for faults because invariably it's going to be wrong and the theory will be refined or disproved in the future. This is the nature of science.

It must be a bit un-nerving always worrying you might fall upwards or that your kettle won't boil when sufficient heat is applied. EEP

If you have no beliefs at all how can you even navigate your way around? They have meds for that, you know.
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#25913 - 06/21/09 05:36 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Beliefs are irrational. I accept the theory of gravity and the laws of thermodynamics as being true and assume that they are true, however if given evidence to the contrary I would question them, thus it's not a belief. I assume in my day to day life many things out of convenience but never at any point to I actively believe them to be true.

This is the only way to retain true scepticism, true open-mindedness. The only thing I can accept as a definite fact is that "I am".

I think, therefore I am.

Everything else is a leap of faith, unless you accept that you could be wrong, your perceptions are imperfect, your assumptions are not definitive and everything you "know" could well be a lie. This is scepticism and I embrace it. However for practicality I assume the scientific method works because with what methods I have available it has provided enough evidence to make the assumption reasonable, I thus assume scientific principles are true, until I see evidence to the contrary. Faith I ignore, anything based on faith I assume is false until evidence is provided. That is how I think, the only way I can think.

Now, considering that, don't you feel a little premature with the smarmy comment, or perhaps you think faith is a more sensible stance.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#25914 - 06/21/09 06:02 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: TornadoCreator]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Faith and belief are not the same thing. Faith is belief without evidence. Any conclusion you reach spawns a belief in the truth of the proposition in question. A belief does not have to be faith based.

I can see this is mostly an etymological conflict we are having.

I used to hold the position, as you seem to, that opinions were far more desirable than beliefs. People are generally willing to defend a belief even after it has been logically defeated, while an opinion is more easily replaced by better information, should it arise. Opinions are therefor more conducive to growth than beliefs.

Since that time however I have realized there is no real distinction between a belief and an opinion. On any given issue you either agree or don't, on any proposition you either hold as true or you do not. The rest is really just language games.
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