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#26699 - 07/02/09 09:52 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Damis]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
Okay then. Thanks, that all gives me a better view on it. I really cant remember what my set beliefs before Satanism were so I cant really based my judgment on that unfortunately (i have terrible memory) but I do know I have always agree with there being immense contradictions in Christianity and that sex being just natural and just a few other points like magic being or can be just a psychological thing with the ritual and dogma. I think

The Satanic Bible reflected and gave new emphasis and argument to many of my beliefs and the rest of them I dont think I had really given much thought to but then we discover new ideas and so TSB also acted as a discovery for me in new ideas.

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#26701 - 07/02/09 10:01 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
My point was because one person cannot read the satanic bible and say everything in it was a pure reflection of how they live their life. Its extremely unlikely.


Unlikely to a non-Satanist. The problem is that so many people will read The Satanic Bible and say to themselves "hey wow I never really thought of things this way", and then go on to call themselves Satanists because it appeals to them and makes sense, but most of the time they'll either misinterpret something, add their own touch to it, or not agree with everything Satanism teaches. What happens most of the time is people will read through The Satanic Bible and just simply miss the 'big picture' and see Satanism as something different, and in that instance agree with whatever they interpreted Satanism to be and call themselves a Satanist. Not everyone who calls themself a Satanist actually IS a Satanist by the definition of The Satanic Bible.

 Quote:
Lets say I read TSB and believed in everything written there but hadnt really thought about it before, would I then be a satanist or must I consciously recognise those beliefs myself before even discovering a religion for it?


Like I said, just because it sounds good and you agree with most of it doesn't mean you actually are a Satanist. However if you understand and do agree with all of it, odds are you felt that way before hand. Besides, nobody picks up The Satanic Bible randomly without any reason. There's always something that pulls your attention to it, and even if you don't realize it until you actually read it, it could mean that you are a Satanist. This is of course assuming that you actually understand Satanism. Although my age could've been part of the reason, the first time I read it some of it confused me, particularly when LaVey would get into the symbolism of Satanism. Once I understood what he was implying about occultism and magick and the whole self-deification aspect, the rest became clear to me. You can't just read TSB and decide you're a Satanist. Like anything else in life it involves a lot of thought before you can truly understand it.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#26702 - 07/02/09 10:11 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Damis]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
However that goes along with my earlier mention of two people not being entirely the same.


You actually raised a good point there. Satanism is like a foundation. For every Satanist the foundation is the same. What you build on the foundation however it was makes you different. So as you mentioned before, two siblings brought up in the same environment may have completely different personalities. Basically, even though Satanists may have the same beliefs, they still do have individuality. Simply put, not every Satanist feels the same way about every aspect of life, but if they are true Satanists, they will all at least have the same foundation.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#26703 - 07/02/09 10:17 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Mike]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
I personally dont understand how people misinterpret Satanism (in LaVey's words). He makes it pretty straight forward. I think alot of the problem is people simply seeing it as devil worship which has led to many an argument Ive had with people.

Just another thing, what if someone who doesnt like Satanism (or is just unread in it) but follows all the same beliefs. Does that makes them a satanist without a label of sorts?

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#26705 - 07/02/09 10:25 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Mike]
Damis Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 60
Loc: England
Ah yes that is something I forgot to mention that Mike has covered.

The interpretation of Satanism. I doubt that a lot of true Satanists picked TSB up one day and read it, and thought "Hey this means I am Satanist!", taking time to think on what is described is crucial before anyone can call themselves a Satanist. This could take years. Satanism if for convenience we are going to refer to it as a "Religion", is a religion of the mundane, the physical, the real world. And so experiencing this mundane and real world gives life experience which is critical to understanding the world around us and how we perceive things, it also applies therefore to the interpretation of Satanism.

I do not claim to have a correct or fully formed interpretation of Satanism as described in TSB. In this case I lack the life experience needed, however I can say that through thinking over what is described in the TSB I am gaining a more developed understanding of Satanism. Although I would not call myself a Satanist,, that would be a naive thing to do at my current stage of life. It seems to me that an individual must apply their thoughts and examine themselves thoroughly in order to gain a more complete understanding and to find out if they truly do agree and truly are what is being said. It is something they can only do on their own.

The TSB as I said before at least in my view is a general line, and if that general line isn't fully understood then nothing else will be.
_________________________
Leben ist krieg.

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#26706 - 07/02/09 10:41 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Damis]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
I agree. I read through the Satanic Bible a few times and made sure I understood it all. I got really interested and looked up lots on the internet about other aspects as well , looked through other philosophies related, and just did some research into the whole thing. (to make sure I didnt misinterpret anything)

Reading through other Satanic books and documents also helps one get clarification in the principles but overall I think Satanism is fairly easier to grasp. I guess since I see people who simply dont bother learning or what they know of it they simply deject it I guess that means the philosophy doesnt set something off in their mind, therefore they arent a satanist.

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#26708 - 07/02/09 10:51 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
I personally dont understand how people misinterpret satanism (in LaVey's words). He makes it pretty straight forward. I think alot of the problem is people simply seeing it as devil worship which has led to many an argument Ive had with people.


The only people who see Satanism as devil worship are people who have never read The Satanic Bible. I was referring to people who read The Satanic Bible and misinterpret it. Just because something seems simple to understand at first doesn't mean it actually is.

And in that instance I really don't see why anyone who follows the same principles of Satanism would not like Satanism...Also not every Satanist needs a label. I guess technically they could be considered Satanists by others, but a label is just a label. It's what it's describing that means something.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#26709 - 07/02/09 11:00 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Mike]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
Yes okay then. Reading the Satanic Bible usually clears up the difference between devil worship and Satanism. Unfortunately many dont bother and prefer to argue about it with ignorance.

I've found that even a person who:
Pleasure oriented, against christianity (and intelligently), and just follows alot of the principles but they think Satanism is stupid. I think its just the satan thing and still the misconnotated devil worship. Someone I know who is really very satanic in his own way but never gets past theistic Satanism being the 'true' Satanism even though he accepts that satan isnt real. Its just a childish idea that satan is the devil and has no other meaning.

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#26738 - 07/03/09 03:53 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Atralux Lucis]
hellbent666
Unregistered



In response to ta2zz reply in the first page I have to correct him on one thing.

Elite....
(often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.
2. (used with a plural verb) persons of the highest class: Only the elite were there.
3. a group of persons exercising the major share of authority or influence within a larger group: the power elite of a major political party.
4. a type, approximately 10-point in printing-type size, widely used in typewriters and having 12 characters to the inch. Compare pica 1 .

So by the first definition even idiot savants are good at one thing. By this definition most people are elite at one thing or another. The guy that fixes your car is an elite auto mechanic. The guy that makes you your food at a restaurant (granted it is a good place) is an elite cook. Not only Satanists are elite, this term is a very broad one and can imply numerous things.

If we go by the second definition of elite then only the rich are elite. Sorry to use your profession as a reference (my professional status is way worse than yours, I'm a goddamned deli clerk LOL) ta2zz, Paul Booth, Guy Aitchison, Kat Von D, Vincent Castigula, etc... are all "Elite" tattoo artists by second definition. They are the rock stars of the tattoo world. I am by no means diminishing your work ta2zz, just clearing up word confusion. You ask Paul Booth what he thinks of himself he will say, "I'm a big fat guy from Jersey. I'm nothing special and over-paid." This is a prime example of how modest but confident men are the first to succeed in life.

I am of the mind that LaVey was just trying to add exclusivity to the face of Satanism, and using a cop-out at the same time. By opting for an exclusive definition of what constitutes as real Satanism he made it impossible for anyone to fall into that category. Most of us didn't even know what Satanism was until we were old enough to comprehend such a book! At 2 years old you didn't waddle around in your diaper screaming shemhamforash! And I call Bull Shit on anyone that says they've lived in accordance with the guidelines of Satanism for their whole lives. Everyone fucks up. And according to the CoS some people are too satanic, or not enough satanic.

I do however agree with your hardware software theory ta2zz because, "You can't fix stupid." But then again it's always easier to call someone stupid than to try to understand them.

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#26739 - 07/03/09 04:03 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: ]
hellbent666
Unregistered



Atralux,

Anything can be misinterpreted. I asked a very valid question that was overlooked not too long ago. I asked, "If your boss is being a douche and talking shit to you, what do you do?" By Satanic standards you are to tell him to go out side and play hide-and-go-fuck-himself! Any reasonable person on the planet with a semi-secure job knows that this is not the case, sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet. So, if we were to follow TSB to a fucking T, most of us would either be in the ER eating through a straw or fired and homeless. TSB cannot be followed to a T. There was one black metal musician that did and ended up doing a stint in prison for murder. Sometimes murder is a satanic quality, most of us could not fathom actually following through with such an act. Eye for an eye no longer applies to the west, it is in the hands of the law now.

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#26744 - 07/03/09 07:10 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: ]
god.over.djinn Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 75
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
"If your boss is being a douche and talking shit to you, what do you do?" By Satanic standards you are to tell him to go out side and play hide-and-go-fuck-himself! Any reasonable person on the planet with a semi-secure job knows that this is not the case, sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet. So, if we were to follow TSB to a fucking T, most of us would either be in the ER eating through a straw or fired and homeless.


Hi Hellbent666,

I can see where you are coming from, but must disagree. Anton dealt with this issue in his discussion of what it means to live a life of sin, that you get bad repercussions from being sinful only if you don't keep the sins balanced. One example was along the lines of, if you indulge in too much gluttony, you might start to get fat, but then pride will reign you in. You want to be hot, so you don't eat so much.

Likewise with the example of your boss. If you have a temper tantrum and get fired, you are getting exactly what you deserve. It is what is coming to anyone who does not indulge enough in greed, pride, and sloth. A greedy person wants to keep their job. A proud person doesn't want to get fired if they can help it. A lazy person wouldn't bother getting worked up about it all. And if you had an excess of lust, you might even try to sleep with your boss and end up getting a promotion!

Furthermore, murder is not a Satanic act. Satanists relish life. Being willing and able to defend oneself, or to make a clean kill of yummy prey - without feeling excessive remorse in either case - is part of this. But those activities don't constitute murder.
_________________________
SATAN, a recursive acronym invented by GOD: "SATAN: Advocating The Adversarial Nihilist"

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#26761 - 07/03/09 03:56 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: ]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
In response to ta2zz reply in the first page I have to correct him on one thing.

I know the dictionary definition of the word elite thank you very much.

I think you are a bit confused and tend to generalize the word elite a bit too much. Perhaps it is your dislike for the word or the way some treated you while defending themselves with this term. Eh no matter, you missed the fact that I defined what I consider to be the seat of the Satanic Elite starting with the workings of the brain. An idiot savant would only be elite by the standard definition if he stood out from all others in his class, as would a mechanic, a baker, or a deli clerk.

 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
I am by no means diminishing your work ta2zz, just clearing up word confusion.

Your own confusion, again as I clearly was only speaking of a higher thinking brain capacity. Although that is covered by the first definition as well.

 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
You ask Paul Booth what he thinks of himself he will say, "I'm a big fat guy from Jersey. I'm nothing special and over-paid." This is a prime example of how modest but confident men are the first to succeed in life.

Paul Booth modest? The following was over a few Chinese machines that had a logo similar to pauls skull. Donít get caught up by PR campaigns. Modesty and confidence

 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
I am of the mind that LaVey was just trying to add exclusivity to the face of Satanism, and using a cop-out at the same time.

So you are not a Satanist (by your own definition) then I must ask why bother with anything LaVey said? What LaVey did he did for himself, not you not me not anyone but himself. Was he vague at times sure the fuck he was. It all falls into place once you stop thinking LaVey did anything for you or anyone else.

 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
By opting for an exclusive definition of what constitutes as real satanism he made it impossible for anyone to fall into that category.

By opting to be vague in certain descriptions, he made Satanism into his church, a church that he was then able to market to those he was selling no need of a church or religion to. Selling exactly what he was speaking against. He made himself "the black pope" here we are years after his death still talking about him and his words. Pure fucking genius donít you think?

Get it yet?

 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
Most of us didn't even know what Satanism was until we were old enough to comprehend such a book! At 2 years old you didn't waddle around in your diaper screaming shemhamforash! And I call Bull Shit on anyone that says they've lived in accordance with the guidelines of Satanism for their whole lives.

Again this statement follows what I myself said, though your interpretation is only trying to disprove born not made. Some say infants are Satanic in nature this does not make them Satanists. Who the fuck goes around screaming Hail Satan or shemhamforash except you youngsters and wannabes anyway?

 Quote:
Everyone fucks up. And according to the CoS some people are too satanic, or not enough satanic.

Yes even LaVey says that even a Satanist can make a mistake, the difference is to accept it learn from it and not make the same mistake again. But Iím not here to quote his words as scripture. Again to straighten out your blatant confusion, according to the current CoS unless you follow every word, as scripture without ever acknowledging the ToS or the FSC you are not a Satanist. Not too satanic or not satanic enough, you are or your not. I must admit while my standards are a bit different from theirs I agree you are or you are not, there is little very grey area for a Satanist. Though possibly like LaVey, unlike many here I can see a use and purpose for the stupids, dregs and wannabes. I also understand if they are bothering me it is clearly of my own doing by letting them get to me.

 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
I do however agree with your hardware software theory ta2zz because, "You can't fix stupid." But then again it's always easier to call someone stupid than to try to understand them.

Stupid cannot be fixed while the ignorant can learn. Maybe if you reread what I said you will understand it better. Because after all that by agreeing with me you are agreeing with the statement ďborn not madeĒ.

PM me if you would like me to clarify anything else or start a new thread on Elitism as this is straying off topic.

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#26767 - 07/03/09 07:49 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
I think its just the satan thing and still the misconnotated devil worship. Someone I know who is really very satanic in his own way but never gets past theistic satanism being the 'true' satanism even though he accepts that satan isnt real. Its just a childish idea that satan is the devil and has no other meaning.


That means they don't understand the mysticism and symbolism of Satanism. Reading The Satanic Bible more carefully would fix that. But in that instance I guess you would say the person is an Atheist.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#26778 - 07/04/09 12:16 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: ]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
You've completely missed it. Your examples suck.

 Quote:
So by the first definition even idiot savants are good at one thing. By this definition most people are elite at one thing or another. The guy that fixes your car is an elite auto mechanic. The guy that makes you your food at a restaurant (granted it is a good place) is an elite cook. Not only Satanists are elite, this term is a very broad one and can imply numerous things.


No, the guy fixing your car is someone that can read a manual and knows how to diagnose a problem. Hell, I have ripped my car apart and fixed it numerous times. Yet I am no mechanic. I knew how to read a manual and follow directions. I also had some training in high school. The elite auto mechanic is the guy that can fabricate his own parts. He realizes that a part is unavailable, but knows how to make a new one from basic metal and wiring and such. He's the guy that can take a rusting hunk of metal and rubber and turn it into running show car.

I cook my ass off. But put me up against some old lady from Sicily, I would lose. Elite would be being able to look in your pantry and make a fantastic meal out of bread crumbs, soup mix, and a can of sardines. It is knowing how to deconstruct food to their basic elements and reconstruct them into something else. Check out some of the stuff Jose Andres is doing here in DC. His stuff is amazing. Simply slapping a burger around on a fryer and serving it is not elite.

 Quote:
Paul Booth, Guy Aitchison, Kat Von D, Vincent Castigula, etc... are all "Elite" tattoo artists by second definition. They are the rock stars of the tattoo world. I am by no means diminishing your work ta2zz, just clearing up word confusion. You ask Paul Booth what he thinks of himself he will say, "I'm a big fat guy from Jersey. I'm nothing special and over-paid." This is a prime example of how modest but confident men are the first to succeed in life.


Have you ever met Paul Booth? I guess not, or you wouldn't have put him in this list. That comment must have been from 10 years ago or more. His ego precedes him. I've met him at 2 different tattoo conventions, and he is an over inflated dick. Kat Von D? Because she has a show on tv? I wouldn't set foot in her shop. I've seen her work. Not worth the price she charges. I'll give you Guy. His work is pretty impressive. And who is the other guy? If I have never heard of him, he must not be that elite.

You are trying to paint Elite into a corner with too small of definition. There is more to it than what Merriam-Webster would have you think.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#26779 - 07/04/09 12:28 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: ]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
I asked, "If your boss is being a douche and talking shit to you, what do you do?" By Satanic standards you are to tell him to go out side and play hide-and-go-fuck-himself! Any reasonable person on the planet with a semi-secure job knows that this is not the case, sometimes you just gotta bite the bullet. So, if we were to follow TSB to a fucking T, most of us would either be in the ER eating through a straw or fired and homeless.


It's called using lesser black magic. You become the chameleon. You blend in. You make notes. You look for fuckups. You take advantage of every training program he offers. You build your resume. Then you begin looking for a new job. Meanwhile, you work the system. You refer back to your notes and documents for the fuckups. You call OSHA. Have them do a safety inspection. You call the fire marshall to have them see if they are in compliance. Check with the Labor Dept or your state and local labor organizations to verify if any of his questionable actions are legal. Only a dullard would challenge the boss to fight. Again, missing the point.

BTW, TSB is not the be all, end all of Satanic thought. I suggest users take a look at the thread regarding Satanic reading.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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