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#29988 - 09/23/09 11:47 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: MissKitty]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
Sorry, I seriously misread Aquino's and MissKitty's posts. As I went back through them I noticed what was really stated.

Part of what caused the misunderstanding:

 Quote:
Whether or not you believe in magic as pure psychology, or as something else, is very personal to the individual. Not everyone follows what Dr. LaVey has written, and you will find many different opinions on the matter.


My point would be that I believed it to be both psychology and "something else." If you bend will, or the functionality of nature, to your benefit then the psychological aspect of it would be quite important.


Edited by FlameReborn (09/24/09 12:19 AM)
Edit Reason: mechanics

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#29992 - 09/24/09 09:22 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
 Quote:
I'm not saying you can throw balls of fire or call down lightning, but magic can be something far more useful than that. Magic is changing reality to suit you. By changing your own compatibility with your surroundings, you can consciously and subconsciously alter their character. Something that troubles you will no longer trouble you, and the thing that troubles you can change into something that actually pleases you, both by changing it and yourself.


Yes, getting on the right track. Dr. LaVey mentions in the SB, and in the TSR I think, that the difference between prayer and magick is like a man who begs for a loan (prayer) and a man who writes a blank check (magick). Magick is much more forward than slavish prayer, but it still has it's stipulations. Because you have the ability to bend will and reality this makes it like somewhat more than just a psychodrama, but not any less than a psychodrama. The drama aspect is what brings it about.

 Quote:
If you want to view magic as something supernatural, however, you'd be in the wrong.


This was mentioned earlier in another post of mine. Other religions like Christians, Wicca, along with other new age thought have tried to equate magick to god(s) and god(s) to magick, as if you couldn't have one without the other. I see this as ignorance and also religion trying to monopolize everything, as it always has tried to do. I also see magick as natural and a functional way to manipulate our surroundings.

Thanks for the reply,

-FlameReborn

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#29993 - 09/24/09 10:00 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: FlameReborn]
lunir Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Fort Bragg, NC
Magic first implies that man can see an importance to living, a reason for him to obtain what he rightfully needs/desires. In wicca this realization of man's living is the sight of a Secrect Flame- A fire whych lights the eyes of man to a potent Aetheric world that has transcended the Physical and given him the right to understand more purely the world that exsists about him, possibly the one that even exsists in his abscense... Usually, in wicca, this idea relates to a principle of inner and outer cosmos...

I enjoy this idea of inner and outer cosmos, giving me the idea/empowerment of mind that I am the Great Architect at the beginning of the Universe... I must only stop myself and remember that I am the Great Architect of My Universe. So in this responsibility of Understanding, it is myself, my understanding of the operations of the Atheric (The sight of man as a force of Nature) as they transform into Celestial lights that empower the key to my own Greater Form (A type of Solar Celestial Platform)... that force then the projection into the "True Universe" becomes a world of Capability where it was not the forces of universal Growth into the all knowing eye, but instead my own forces bent of my own desires....

Man is a Psychological Creature bound to society (wether defying or aiding) by his understanding of mind, and altogheter an entity like God or Satan would not exsist (by theory of Psychology) without man to adhere to the principles of its exsisting...

This is how I have come to understand the importance of the Decompression Chamber to no longer allow the Serpentine Time Mind of Man to influence the practitioner and he then is capable of sympathizing with these fantastic forms of Self Imagery or able to transcend the plane of mans Stability and become the Capable....

The Pyramid (Base to Tip)

To Know
To Will
To Dare
To Keep Silent
_________________________
~The greatest of all flames, is destroyed by it's own Wisdom.~

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#29995 - 09/24/09 02:07 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: lunir]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Listen, lunir...this is not a White Light forum...Wicca is nothing more than a bastardization of every mythology that has ever existed, not to mention its "practitioners" have a hard time spelling words normally (ie, "witch", not "whych"--I mean, seriously!).

Satanism embraces that which Wicca and all that fluffy bunny crap discourages: Exploitation, ambition, and not letting stupid restrictions such as "An it harm none, do as thou wilt" keep us from achieving our goals. We tend to just follow the last part of that little quip, "Do as thou wilt". As long as we don't get caught, of course ;\)
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#29999 - 09/24/09 07:32 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Nemesis]
lunir Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Fort Bragg, NC
The word of intention was most commonly spelled which and had no reference to any sort of practice... So I don't believe that I can follow that completely....

I pulled knowledge from Wicca, sir, I did not suggest that man should not destroy his enemy without mercy.

I would partly agree with your opinion of the foundation of Wicca, for it is a drawing of Man Bestial into Man the Enlightened, and draws from what is needed for man to feel himself sucessful in Evolutionary Patterns....

Do as thou wilt, love is the law, love under will do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law?

I am sorry, but to negate the need of self is to negate the most positive emotion of man... Love.

Fluffy bunny crap, indeed sir, to allow yourself to fade to dogmatic living is indeed a sure way to fail; however to disregard the potential of another's research is also a good way to remain ignorant to your enemy... The White Wizard.
_________________________
~The greatest of all flames, is destroyed by it's own Wisdom.~

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#30006 - 09/24/09 09:08 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: lunir]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
If an enemy is to be destroyed, there is no mercy.

THIS IS NOT A WICCAN SITE!!!!

There is no such thing as white or black magic, its all the same shit.

You know nothing about Satanism, we place the highest importance on the needs of the self.

Your not a wizard, your on an ego trip to nowhere.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#30015 - 09/25/09 12:17 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Morgan]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
 Quote:
Do as thou wilt, love is the law, love under will do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law?


I understand that it is Crowley that came up with that statement, but it just seems like A glorified version of the Wiccan Rede, an harm none do as you will. If you love someone as you just put in your statement then it would not follow that you would decimate them mercilessly (of course symbolically, unless certain situations arise: self-defense.) If love is the law, then you do want you want and it shall be the whole of love. This sounds like every other "golden rule" that right hand religions paste all over their dogma.

We do unto others as they do unto us.

Love may be a positive emotion emitted by human beings, but it is what it is, just an emotion. A mind-state that is a product of the brain. When I die, all the love I had for other people may still be remembered by them, but the love emotion I have will die with me, just like my sadness emotion and my anger emotion. To me they are all equally valuable, one is not more valuable than the other.

Love seems to be the "poster-child" for all right-hand religions. They try to use this one feeling out of all of the others as a loophole to fit in some divine nature or wisdom. All animals know what love it, we just happen to attach more value and meaning to love, and other emotions, because we have sentience. I am sure that if dogs and cats started evolving a more sentient state, like human beings, they would also start putting more value on their emotions and thoughts.

Sorry Lunir, I have to agree with them this isn't a Wiccan board.


Edited by FlameReborn (09/25/09 12:23 AM)

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#30026 - 09/25/09 10:45 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: FlameReborn]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Quote:
I understand that it is Crowley that came up with that statement, but it just seems like A glorified version of the Wiccan Rede, an harm none do as you will.

It is a well known fact that both Anton LaVey and Gerald Gardner "lent" some occult knowledge from Crowley.

Sorry for the one-liner.


Edited by Dimitri (09/25/09 10:45 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#30027 - 09/25/09 11:10 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Dimitri]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
 Quote:
It is a well known fact that both Anton LaVey and Gerald Gardner "lent" some occult knowledge from Crowley.


Oh, I know that Dr. LaVey borrowed from Crowley. LaVey in my opinion, would be the only most suited to borrow from Crowley. Gerald Gardner pretty much raped neo-pagan and occultic literature and religion. You can get a pretty clear picture of this if you read Raymond Buckland's Guide to Witchcraft. He claims to be in a line of successors of Gardnerarian (-Sp?) WIcca.

Dr. LaVey also mentions in the TSB about all the pseudo-magicians who stand in magic circles and protect themselves, superstitiously of course, from the very element they are utilizing, demons.

 Quote:
There is no such thing as white or black magic, its all the same shit.


I know that Gardener spread this nonsense, but did Crowley as well? A friend of my, who is wiccan, told me that at one point in time is was SOP for Golden Dawn members to conjure demons, however in modern times they have done away with it. Was it still considered black vs. white?

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#30030 - 09/25/09 02:06 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: lunir]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Nemesis is a woman, a sexy woman. Do not call her "sir" as it is offensive to her femininity.

You are a silly Wiccan who is in the wrong place. Now go dance naked around a fire in a forest somewhere and let the adults talk.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#30033 - 09/25/09 03:24 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: FlameReborn]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
[quote=FlameReborn]
 Quote:
A friend of my, who is wiccan, told me that at one point in time is was SOP for Golden Dawn members to conjure demons, however in modern times they have done away with it. Was it still considered black vs. white?


Here we go again.

Unless your "friend" can come up with proof and replicability, it's fraud. If ANYONE can, in my presence, conjure demons, the devil, two fat chicks named Drusilla, or anything else from the "great beyond," I'll be the first to stand up and claim validity. But the bullshit of rumor and FOAF stories and "feeling the presence" is all just a way to "prove the unprovable with equally unprovable proof."

Reality is what counts. If it COULD be done, it would be done. Prove it to me live and in person, replicate it and prove there's no agendized trickery. Then we can talk.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#30038 - 09/25/09 05:17 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Jake999]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
Perhaps I can clear something up here, or at least try. Within the G.'.D.'. there are times when spirits (or whatever you want to call them) need to be invoked or evoked, but not conjured. However Crowley did once conjure; but this was merely a display of psychological manipulation (of a very impressionable and expectant audience) in order to raise some money; nothing mystical or new-age about either case.

And can we leave lame attempts to decode “Do what thou Wilt...” at the door?

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#30046 - 09/26/09 01:19 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Mercury_Templar]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
 Quote:
Unless your "friend" can come up with proof and replicability, it's fraud. If ANYONE can, in my presence, conjure demons, the devil, two fat chicks named Drusilla, or anything else from the "great beyond," I'll be the first to stand up and claim validity. But the bullshit of rumor and FOAF stories and "feeling the presence" is all just a way to "prove the unprovable with equally unprovable proof."


Accepted, however I never said that I believed it. I was trying to ask a question to level headed adults. I said that Gardener spread the nonsense of magic being either black or white, but I didn't know if Crowley believed or taught the same view, or just believed in magic. I connected this with the Golden Dawn issue, from the point that they summoned demons.

 Quote:
And can we leave lame attempts to decode “Do what thou Wilt...” at the door?


What the hell are you talking about? No one is decoding anything. Lunir tried to hide his crazy wiccan views behind Crowley's old statement of the Law. All I said was that it was too close to the Wiccan Rede and as a Satanist I don't follow it. Maybe you should have read the post first.

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#30049 - 09/26/09 03:20 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: FlameReborn]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
Calm down would you? I was not attacking you in particular – if I were I would have singled you out. The point is Crowley's reshaping of Rabelais' "Fais ce que tu veux" has been dealt with on numerous occasions; there is no need to revisit.

I did read your post, as I did all the posts in this thread, including your last one; which seemed rather ill-informed. Obviously you did not read my last post properly considering the fact that it appears you still misunderstand the concepts of invocation and evocation as far as the G.'.D.'. is concerned. I suppose your point of view makes sense though, bearing in mind you heard it from a friend; they probably heard it from a friend too.

If you have any specific questions regarding Crowley or G.'.D.'. practices, feel free to ask; if I have the time I will try my best to answer them.

Again, calm down, you may just learn something.

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#30107 - 09/27/09 01:34 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Mercury_Templar]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
 Quote:
if you have any specific questions regarding Crowley or G.'.D.'. practices, feel free to ask; if I have the time I will try my best to answer them.


The golden dawn I could really care less about. I just had a self-righteous acquaintance at my University consider himself a golden dawn wicca and went on this rant on how they used to summon demons, back when Crowley was a member, however they, quaintly, do not do it anymore. My assumption was that Crowley didn't buy into white or black magick crap.

Btw, I never assumed you were attacking me, I just don't use humorous filler in my posts. Like, "lol" or "Lmao". I was just trying to break it to Lunir easily, but from the other posts he/she/it seems as if he/she/it is not getting the picture. I'm not decoding anything, I just don't believe that love is the whole of the law. If there is such a law, like the law of nature, it would be self-preservation.

-F.R.


Edited by FlameReborn (09/27/09 01:35 PM)

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