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#26700 - 07/02/09 10:01 PM Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological?
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
LaVey dubbs the ritual chamber as a psychological decompression chamber. So he implies that its really an emotional outlet, psychodrama etc. (Higher Black Magic)
So is it up to the individual what they believe is real magick that affects the world or simply put down to psychological.

Just like the Atheism would we not believe in the power of witchcraft, voodoo and all that stuff. I find that LaVey writes in a manner that I find difficult to pick up which side he is on. He does imply that its psychological but also alot of his rituals in The Satanic Rituals can be pretty full-on and sometimes sound theistic which Im aware that enhances the emotional content of the Ritual but does any of it really have magickal essence in it.

(Im sorry, i think i put forward more than one question there but I hope you get the gist of the topic im bringing up)

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#26711 - 07/03/09 12:02 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Jester Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 62
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
You might get different answers from different people in regards to your questions. Personally, It's all psychodrama used to inflate ones will and ego. Personally, instead of spending a considerable amount of time with psychodrama and all that foreplay I just go out and do. If I want to achieve something I just go out and do. I can appreciate the use of said psychodrama but it doesn't really work for me. I do meditate and visualize how I will achieve something that I want. Formulate a plan you could say. I just prefer to go out and do it. A man of action you could say.
_________________________
"...And I thought my jokes were bad."

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#26729 - 07/03/09 03:00 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Jester]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
I have a certain fondness- a fetish even- for ritual. I wouldn't say that ritual makes me significantly more "capable" of real-world action, but it certainly makes me feel more confident about it.

But the primary reason why I practice satanic ritual is not practical- it's more artistic and emotional. Magic and ritual are a sort of drug for me- and I'm an enthusiastic recreational user.

From the contents of the Satanic Bible, I don't think that LaVey was the hardline materialist that the current CoS makes him out to be. It was the 60s after all, and he does mention things like "life energy" and "mind force" and some other manifestations of magical thinking that were inherent to magic and occultism at the time. (ie, the idea that a destruction ritual could possibly bring about the literal death of an enemy) I don't buy into that sort of thing, nor is it a part of my own practice....

My own "invocations" can get borderline-theistic at times, but my primary focus is the elevation of the self, and exaltation of Satanic qualities which are best represented as a "godform", so to speak.
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«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#26733 - 07/03/09 03:24 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: The Zebu]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
I think mind force and life energy are just normal terms. Like will= mind force and life energy is more or less will as well.

See though, thats what gets me. He does make it really, like, literal magic but then on the same coin he says its psychological, so he leans boths ways and leads to confusion. But I guess he leaves it to the individual opinion.

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#26735 - 07/03/09 03:42 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Jester Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 62
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
When it comes to "magick" you should look at the works of Eliphas Lévi and Austin Osman Spare. They are very interesting. Spare's books might be a challenge to find, luckily there is the internet. I would recommend reading about them and what they thought. Not trying to overload with information, but it's good to take a look at what else is out there as well.
_________________________
"...And I thought my jokes were bad."

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#26737 - 07/03/09 03:49 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Jester]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
Yeh, I will probably read up those but I'm still curious about LaVey's actual idea of magick, because its not as direct in the sense it being real or not in a supernatural sense.
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#26747 - 07/03/09 07:22 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
god.over.djinn Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/23/09
Posts: 75
Loc: Melbourne
Hi Atralux Lucis,

I am under the impression from the wording of your queries that you haven't done any magic yourself before. If this is the case, but you really are curious, then there is only one person on this forum who can give you the answer.

You can only find out by doing. Just try it out as an experiment. It doesn't even have to be some badass Satanic ritual, if that is a bit intimidating. Just do an LBRP or a GPR or a laughter banishing. Do it every day without fail, because being able to keep it up is part of the experiment.

G.O.D.
_________________________
SATAN, a recursive acronym invented by GOD: "SATAN: Advocating The Adversarial Nihilist"

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#26750 - 07/03/09 08:06 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: god.over.djinn]
Jester Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/05/09
Posts: 62
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I always like the term decompression chamber. For me, my bedroom is my decompression chamber. Maybe a variation on the way LaVey describes one. My room is my sanctuary, my place to escape. I decorated with various objects, pictures, etc. When I go into my room I shut the door and ignore everything beyond the door. I sometimes like to put on music or a weird movie, let it play and fade away or meditate or read or whatever I feel like doing. That is my decompression chamber. When I am in it, I feel safe, I feel alone, I feel free. That is my version of a decompression chamber. A place constructed by my design, a place for me, by me.

A little off topic since this thread is about Ritual Magic, by my escapes are magical in their own right.
_________________________
"...And I thought my jokes were bad."

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#26776 - 07/03/09 11:49 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Jester]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
I attempted to construct a theory on how the actual magick might work, based on will.

If (if) reality is a manifestation of countless wills:
Like when you buy something and you suddenly start seeing it everywhere, or you have a problem and you start finding conversations or reading material starts being relevant to that. (these examples times by 6 billion to create or motivate reality)

So perhaps if ones will can actual interact with the world, then the ritual magic is a ordered and emotionally empowering way of using your will to manifest reality, to an extent, to your desire.

Sounds fairly out there, but would that be one possibility on how the magick could work (even if its still down to personal belief) just thought Id put my idea out there for people to comment.


Edited by Atralux Lucis (07/03/09 11:51 PM)

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#29862 - 09/20/09 05:09 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
I must agree with Lucius on this, I am somewhat new to this. Learning that LaVey understood magick and termed it differently than what the current CoS terms it as.

I believe that as a Satanists I am more than just an "Atheist playing dress up." (I may have mention this in a previous thread.) My belief is that just because Will or Force can be bent through Magic that it's not necessarily supernatural. Other religions (including Wicca) have tried to equate Magic to gods or supernatural.

As a Satanist I question this, Magic doesn't have to function on one plane only, gods. Magic is a tool. We don't use hammers, because of the people that made them. We use them to accomplish a task, that's what magic is. It's a product of us for us, not on the behalf of the supernatural.

Magic to me can't be completely explainable, but I guess that part of my philosophy as an Atheist. As for death and the Forces of Nature I don't always know.


Edited by FlameReborn (09/20/09 05:15 AM)
Edit Reason: adding

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#29872 - 09/20/09 01:39 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: FlameReborn]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2576
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: FlameReborn
I must agree with Lucius on this, I am somewhat new to this. Learning that LaVey understood magick and termed it differently than what the current CoS terms it as.

I believe that as a Satanists I am more than just an "Atheist playing dress up." (I may have mention this in a previous thread.) My belief is that just because Will or Force can be bent through Magic that it's not necessarily supernatural. Other religions (including Wicca) have tried to equate Magic to gods or supernatural.

As a Satanist I question this, Magic doesn't have to function on one plane only, gods. Magic is a tool. We don't use hammers, because of the people that made them. We use them to accomplish a task, that's what magic is. It's a product of us for us, not on the behalf of the supernatural.

Magic to me can't be completely explainable, but I guess that part of my philosophy as an Atheist. As for death and the Forces of Nature I don't always know.

Most generally Anton divided magic [he did not use Crowley's -ck spelling because he felt it parochialized the concept] into Lesser and Greater: the former referring to operations to influence people or events utilizing obscure or unrecognized techniques, and the latter for workings intended to evolve, strengthen, or focus one's own consciousness.

Much of the confusion about Anton's belief in Satan stems from others' ignorance or misunderstanding of these two types of magic. Making matters worse, they not infrequently overlap, for which the Temple of Set has used the term "Medial Black Magic" until we can come up with something more lyrical!

In Setian initiation we apprehend Set as the neter/Principle/Form of isolate consciousness of self, of which each individual ka/psyche/soul is a particularization or manifestation. You can see that this makes "objectification" or "distinction" of Set [or Satan in the days of the Church] a subtle and complex matter. Exactly where do you "stop" and the Prince of Darkness "begin" & vice-versa?

Anton expressed this very thoughtfully in a 1973 interview in John Fritscher's Popular Witchcraft:

 Originally Posted By: Anton LaVey
I don't feel that raising the devil in an anthropomorphic sense is quite as feasible as theologians or metaphysicians would like to think. I have felt His presence but only as an exteriorized extension of my own potential,as an alter-ego or evolved concept that I have been able to exteriorize. With a full awareness, I can communicate with this semblance, this creature, this demon, this personification that I see in the eyes of the symbol of Satan - the goat of Mendes - as I commune with it before the altar. None of these is anything more than a mirror image of that potential I perceive in myself. I have this awareness that the objectification is in accord with my own ego. I'm not deluding myself that I'm calling something that is disassociated from myself the godhead. Satan is ,therefore, an extension of one's psyche or volitional essence, so that the extension can sometimes converse and give directions in a way that thinking of the self as a single unit cannot. In this way it does help to depict in an externalized way the Devil per se. The purpose is to have something of an idolatrous, objective nature to commune with. However, man has connection, contact, control. This notion of an exteriorized God-Satan is not new.

Also in 1973 Anton commented in an interview for the phonograph album The Occult Explosion:

 Originally Posted By: Anton LaVey
To us “Satan” is a symbol rather than an anthropomorphic being, although many members of the Church of Satan who are mystically inclined prefer to think of Satan in a very real, anthropomorphic way. Of course we do not discourage this, because we realize that it is very important to many individuals to ritualistically conceptualize a well-wrought picture of their mentor or tutelary divinity. Symbolically, however, Satan is the teacher: the informer of the whys and wherefores of the world. In answer to those who would label us “Devil worshippers” or be very quick to assume us to be Satan worshippers, I must say that Satan demands study, not worship.

We do not grovel; we do not get down on our knees, genuflect, and worship Satan. We do not plead, we do not implore that Satan give us what we wish. We feel that anyone who is going to be blessed by any god of his choice is going to have to show that god that he is capable of taking care of the blessings that are received.

The Church of Satan is an organization which is comprised of Satanists who, because of their abilities and lifestyles - and I must stress lifestyles - reflect a higher than average human potential. Through this avenue - the Church of Satan - the Satanist will become the prototype for a more rational, certainly a more finely tuned society.

The media have stressed our nude altars. The nude altar is an integral part of the Satanic service, and with good reason: The nude altar represents man’s fleshly heritage - the very Earth, the mother, the womb whence he came. And we feel that there’s nothing “bawdy”, there’s nothing “licentious”, there’s nothing “lewd” about the nude woman who’s employed for the altar. We also feel that there’s nothing wrong with bawdiness, with licentiousness, or with any type of sexual activity; but we feel that the ritual chamber is no place for it, either overtly or covertly. And there’s no need to be surreptitious in our ritual insofar as sexual predilections are concerned.

For centuries both churchmen and laymen have been defining the Devil according to their needs, all the while playing the game of muzzling the enemy. They’ve been inventing the rules of how devils should behave, how Satanists should behave, how Devil-worshippers should act. And they have been in an authoritative position to do this, because naturally they are the men of God, the men of the church. Supposedly they are the men who have been doing battle with this Devil and have been absolving their parishioners of this Devil’s promptings. In this manner they have maintained a convenient means by which to esape the blame for their inadequacies or indiscretions.

“The Devil made me do it” has always been a stock alibi. Once it held, and held very firm. Now, fortunately - fortunately for us - it has become ludicrous to say, “The Devil made me do it.” Yet many, while laughing, still play the old game of self-deceit and blame the Devil in one way or another. So the old game is still going on. This is made amply clear in, of all places, the very world of the occult. “Witches”, who held the Devil’s name for centuries, now refute Satanism with a passion, employing it as the other side of the fence. All manner of occultists, from ESP researchers to faith healers, denounce Satanists as worthless, meaningless, dangerous, ad nauseam. Never is there to be found a positive adjective about Satanists. We Satanists smile at such transparencies - for they are transparent opinions; their motivations are most clear. It shows that even those who now claim emancipation from inquisitors need devils themselves, in order to make their art more palatable to others.

Ironically the masters of the world have always been Satanists. The masters of magic have always practiced Satanic magic - that is to say, magic without the trappings of self-deceit, for self-deceit is always an inhibiting factor in the ultimate success of a magical rite.

The great Devil’s advocates of the past - Friedrich Nietzsche, Mark Twain, Herbert Spencer, H.G. Wells, Shaw, Bierce - were all able to hold a looking-glass up to man. But man, momentarily viewing his self-deceit upon reading the works of these people, could quickly avert his gaze and find solace in his spurious rule-books. The time for an organization of devils had not yet come. Only a strong, organized movement could force the mirror of self-revealing before the world’s eyes and hold it there. And this is what we wish to do: hold that mirror up!

It has been said that the most powerful thing in the world is an idea whose time has come ’round. The idea that the “enemy” might conceivably have something worthwhile to say is now with us. In fact, is that demon within each of us really an enemy, as we have so long been taught? Or will it be recognized as the guiding spirit of enlightenment which it actually is? You must remember that the word Daimon does not imply “evil”, but simply a “guiding spirit”, a “motivating spirit”.

Man must quit kidding himself. Only when he emancipates himself from dubious interpretations of good and evil - when he can truly rise above good and evil, beyond good and evil, realizing that these terms are probably the most relative terms in his existence; when he can accept the long, obscene name of “Satan” [because that is a dirty word, “Satan” - the occult world seems to find it even more so]; when he can accept this word, this name into his vocabulary as a sound to be honored - then he will be free! Until then he will walk in fear of the very scapegoat he has created, and his potential guide will remain his nemesis.

Thus authentic Satanism is neither "mere worship of a scarecrow deity" [as in profane religions] on one extreme; nor is it self-deceiving Atheism in Halloween dress-up at the other. It is very much its own Grail Castle, and the same is true for the authentic operations of Black Magic which derive from this awareness.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#29882 - 09/20/09 10:40 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
MissKitty Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 10
Loc: UK
I agree with Mr. Aquino, that few really understand the concept of the two types of magic, as set out by Dr. LaVey. Those who do still have their own take on the matter.

Whether or not you believe in magic as pure psychology, or as something else, is very personal to the individual. Not everyone follows what Dr. LaVey has written, and you will find many different opinions on the matter.

For myself, I feel that the psychology behind it all is what really seals the deal. I also feel that, Greater Magic or Ritual needs to be “full-on” because it is something, which taps into your emotional self. If it did not then it would be as blasé as say, making a ham sandwich, and nothing would be gained from the process.
_________________________
The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

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#29897 - 09/21/09 04:07 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: MissKitty]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
So, obiouvsly the concept of magic in Satanism is up to personal interperetation (as stated in the STB) and it's not up to me to decided what your view of it is. I like this view of personal libery, it avoids glibly debating over dogmatic crap.

Thanks Aquaino.

-FlameReborn

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#29898 - 09/21/09 04:48 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: FlameReborn]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3893
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well, No, flamereborn..Satanic Magic really isn't "up to personal interpretation". It is quite clearly defined in detail(both lesser and greater), for any to see, right there in The Satanic Bible. (STB?!?!?). Perhaps you should (re-?)read it.

In the future, you may want to edit your post's for grammar and spelling errors(not to mention content!). Presentation is everything here.

\:\)
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#29900 - 09/21/09 05:59 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Dan_Dread]
MissKitty Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/03/09
Posts: 10
Loc: UK
Something tells me, that my post did not help either. I thought that from Mr. Aquino's post, that it was pretty evident that there was no room for interpretation.
_________________________
The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.

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#29988 - 09/23/09 11:47 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: MissKitty]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
Sorry, I seriously misread Aquino's and MissKitty's posts. As I went back through them I noticed what was really stated.

Part of what caused the misunderstanding:

 Quote:
Whether or not you believe in magic as pure psychology, or as something else, is very personal to the individual. Not everyone follows what Dr. LaVey has written, and you will find many different opinions on the matter.


My point would be that I believed it to be both psychology and "something else." If you bend will, or the functionality of nature, to your benefit then the psychological aspect of it would be quite important.


Edited by FlameReborn (09/24/09 12:19 AM)
Edit Reason: mechanics

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#29992 - 09/24/09 09:22 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
 Quote:
I'm not saying you can throw balls of fire or call down lightning, but magic can be something far more useful than that. Magic is changing reality to suit you. By changing your own compatibility with your surroundings, you can consciously and subconsciously alter their character. Something that troubles you will no longer trouble you, and the thing that troubles you can change into something that actually pleases you, both by changing it and yourself.


Yes, getting on the right track. Dr. LaVey mentions in the SB, and in the TSR I think, that the difference between prayer and magick is like a man who begs for a loan (prayer) and a man who writes a blank check (magick). Magick is much more forward than slavish prayer, but it still has it's stipulations. Because you have the ability to bend will and reality this makes it like somewhat more than just a psychodrama, but not any less than a psychodrama. The drama aspect is what brings it about.

 Quote:
If you want to view magic as something supernatural, however, you'd be in the wrong.


This was mentioned earlier in another post of mine. Other religions like Christians, Wicca, along with other new age thought have tried to equate magick to god(s) and god(s) to magick, as if you couldn't have one without the other. I see this as ignorance and also religion trying to monopolize everything, as it always has tried to do. I also see magick as natural and a functional way to manipulate our surroundings.

Thanks for the reply,

-FlameReborn

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#29993 - 09/24/09 10:00 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: FlameReborn]
lunir Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Fort Bragg, NC
Magic first implies that man can see an importance to living, a reason for him to obtain what he rightfully needs/desires. In wicca this realization of man's living is the sight of a Secrect Flame- A fire whych lights the eyes of man to a potent Aetheric world that has transcended the Physical and given him the right to understand more purely the world that exsists about him, possibly the one that even exsists in his abscense... Usually, in wicca, this idea relates to a principle of inner and outer cosmos...

I enjoy this idea of inner and outer cosmos, giving me the idea/empowerment of mind that I am the Great Architect at the beginning of the Universe... I must only stop myself and remember that I am the Great Architect of My Universe. So in this responsibility of Understanding, it is myself, my understanding of the operations of the Atheric (The sight of man as a force of Nature) as they transform into Celestial lights that empower the key to my own Greater Form (A type of Solar Celestial Platform)... that force then the projection into the "True Universe" becomes a world of Capability where it was not the forces of universal Growth into the all knowing eye, but instead my own forces bent of my own desires....

Man is a Psychological Creature bound to society (wether defying or aiding) by his understanding of mind, and altogheter an entity like God or Satan would not exsist (by theory of Psychology) without man to adhere to the principles of its exsisting...

This is how I have come to understand the importance of the Decompression Chamber to no longer allow the Serpentine Time Mind of Man to influence the practitioner and he then is capable of sympathizing with these fantastic forms of Self Imagery or able to transcend the plane of mans Stability and become the Capable....

The Pyramid (Base to Tip)

To Know
To Will
To Dare
To Keep Silent
_________________________
~The greatest of all flames, is destroyed by it's own Wisdom.~

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#29995 - 09/24/09 02:07 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: lunir]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Listen, lunir...this is not a White Light forum...Wicca is nothing more than a bastardization of every mythology that has ever existed, not to mention its "practitioners" have a hard time spelling words normally (ie, "witch", not "whych"--I mean, seriously!).

Satanism embraces that which Wicca and all that fluffy bunny crap discourages: Exploitation, ambition, and not letting stupid restrictions such as "An it harm none, do as thou wilt" keep us from achieving our goals. We tend to just follow the last part of that little quip, "Do as thou wilt". As long as we don't get caught, of course ;\)
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#29999 - 09/24/09 07:32 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Nemesis]
lunir Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Fort Bragg, NC
The word of intention was most commonly spelled which and had no reference to any sort of practice... So I don't believe that I can follow that completely....

I pulled knowledge from Wicca, sir, I did not suggest that man should not destroy his enemy without mercy.

I would partly agree with your opinion of the foundation of Wicca, for it is a drawing of Man Bestial into Man the Enlightened, and draws from what is needed for man to feel himself sucessful in Evolutionary Patterns....

Do as thou wilt, love is the law, love under will do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law?

I am sorry, but to negate the need of self is to negate the most positive emotion of man... Love.

Fluffy bunny crap, indeed sir, to allow yourself to fade to dogmatic living is indeed a sure way to fail; however to disregard the potential of another's research is also a good way to remain ignorant to your enemy... The White Wizard.
_________________________
~The greatest of all flames, is destroyed by it's own Wisdom.~

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#30006 - 09/24/09 09:08 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: lunir]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
If an enemy is to be destroyed, there is no mercy.

THIS IS NOT A WICCAN SITE!!!!

There is no such thing as white or black magic, its all the same shit.

You know nothing about Satanism, we place the highest importance on the needs of the self.

Your not a wizard, your on an ego trip to nowhere.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#30015 - 09/25/09 12:17 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Morgan]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
 Quote:
Do as thou wilt, love is the law, love under will do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law?


I understand that it is Crowley that came up with that statement, but it just seems like A glorified version of the Wiccan Rede, an harm none do as you will. If you love someone as you just put in your statement then it would not follow that you would decimate them mercilessly (of course symbolically, unless certain situations arise: self-defense.) If love is the law, then you do want you want and it shall be the whole of love. This sounds like every other "golden rule" that right hand religions paste all over their dogma.

We do unto others as they do unto us.

Love may be a positive emotion emitted by human beings, but it is what it is, just an emotion. A mind-state that is a product of the brain. When I die, all the love I had for other people may still be remembered by them, but the love emotion I have will die with me, just like my sadness emotion and my anger emotion. To me they are all equally valuable, one is not more valuable than the other.

Love seems to be the "poster-child" for all right-hand religions. They try to use this one feeling out of all of the others as a loophole to fit in some divine nature or wisdom. All animals know what love it, we just happen to attach more value and meaning to love, and other emotions, because we have sentience. I am sure that if dogs and cats started evolving a more sentient state, like human beings, they would also start putting more value on their emotions and thoughts.

Sorry Lunir, I have to agree with them this isn't a Wiccan board.


Edited by FlameReborn (09/25/09 12:23 AM)

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#30026 - 09/25/09 10:45 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: FlameReborn]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Quote:
I understand that it is Crowley that came up with that statement, but it just seems like A glorified version of the Wiccan Rede, an harm none do as you will.

It is a well known fact that both Anton LaVey and Gerald Gardner "lent" some occult knowledge from Crowley.

Sorry for the one-liner.


Edited by Dimitri (09/25/09 10:45 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#30027 - 09/25/09 11:10 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Dimitri]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
 Quote:
It is a well known fact that both Anton LaVey and Gerald Gardner "lent" some occult knowledge from Crowley.


Oh, I know that Dr. LaVey borrowed from Crowley. LaVey in my opinion, would be the only most suited to borrow from Crowley. Gerald Gardner pretty much raped neo-pagan and occultic literature and religion. You can get a pretty clear picture of this if you read Raymond Buckland's Guide to Witchcraft. He claims to be in a line of successors of Gardnerarian (-Sp?) WIcca.

Dr. LaVey also mentions in the TSB about all the pseudo-magicians who stand in magic circles and protect themselves, superstitiously of course, from the very element they are utilizing, demons.

 Quote:
There is no such thing as white or black magic, its all the same shit.


I know that Gardener spread this nonsense, but did Crowley as well? A friend of my, who is wiccan, told me that at one point in time is was SOP for Golden Dawn members to conjure demons, however in modern times they have done away with it. Was it still considered black vs. white?

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#30030 - 09/25/09 02:06 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: lunir]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Nemesis is a woman, a sexy woman. Do not call her "sir" as it is offensive to her femininity.

You are a silly Wiccan who is in the wrong place. Now go dance naked around a fire in a forest somewhere and let the adults talk.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#30033 - 09/25/09 03:24 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: FlameReborn]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
[quote=FlameReborn]
 Quote:
A friend of my, who is wiccan, told me that at one point in time is was SOP for Golden Dawn members to conjure demons, however in modern times they have done away with it. Was it still considered black vs. white?


Here we go again.

Unless your "friend" can come up with proof and replicability, it's fraud. If ANYONE can, in my presence, conjure demons, the devil, two fat chicks named Drusilla, or anything else from the "great beyond," I'll be the first to stand up and claim validity. But the bullshit of rumor and FOAF stories and "feeling the presence" is all just a way to "prove the unprovable with equally unprovable proof."

Reality is what counts. If it COULD be done, it would be done. Prove it to me live and in person, replicate it and prove there's no agendized trickery. Then we can talk.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#30038 - 09/25/09 05:17 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Jake999]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
Perhaps I can clear something up here, or at least try. Within the G.'.D.'. there are times when spirits (or whatever you want to call them) need to be invoked or evoked, but not conjured. However Crowley did once conjure; but this was merely a display of psychological manipulation (of a very impressionable and expectant audience) in order to raise some money; nothing mystical or new-age about either case.

And can we leave lame attempts to decode “Do what thou Wilt...” at the door?

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#30046 - 09/26/09 01:19 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Mercury_Templar]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
 Quote:
Unless your "friend" can come up with proof and replicability, it's fraud. If ANYONE can, in my presence, conjure demons, the devil, two fat chicks named Drusilla, or anything else from the "great beyond," I'll be the first to stand up and claim validity. But the bullshit of rumor and FOAF stories and "feeling the presence" is all just a way to "prove the unprovable with equally unprovable proof."


Accepted, however I never said that I believed it. I was trying to ask a question to level headed adults. I said that Gardener spread the nonsense of magic being either black or white, but I didn't know if Crowley believed or taught the same view, or just believed in magic. I connected this with the Golden Dawn issue, from the point that they summoned demons.

 Quote:
And can we leave lame attempts to decode “Do what thou Wilt...” at the door?


What the hell are you talking about? No one is decoding anything. Lunir tried to hide his crazy wiccan views behind Crowley's old statement of the Law. All I said was that it was too close to the Wiccan Rede and as a Satanist I don't follow it. Maybe you should have read the post first.

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#30049 - 09/26/09 03:20 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: FlameReborn]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
Calm down would you? I was not attacking you in particular – if I were I would have singled you out. The point is Crowley's reshaping of Rabelais' "Fais ce que tu veux" has been dealt with on numerous occasions; there is no need to revisit.

I did read your post, as I did all the posts in this thread, including your last one; which seemed rather ill-informed. Obviously you did not read my last post properly considering the fact that it appears you still misunderstand the concepts of invocation and evocation as far as the G.'.D.'. is concerned. I suppose your point of view makes sense though, bearing in mind you heard it from a friend; they probably heard it from a friend too.

If you have any specific questions regarding Crowley or G.'.D.'. practices, feel free to ask; if I have the time I will try my best to answer them.

Again, calm down, you may just learn something.

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#30107 - 09/27/09 01:34 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Mercury_Templar]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
 Quote:
if you have any specific questions regarding Crowley or G.'.D.'. practices, feel free to ask; if I have the time I will try my best to answer them.


The golden dawn I could really care less about. I just had a self-righteous acquaintance at my University consider himself a golden dawn wicca and went on this rant on how they used to summon demons, back when Crowley was a member, however they, quaintly, do not do it anymore. My assumption was that Crowley didn't buy into white or black magick crap.

Btw, I never assumed you were attacking me, I just don't use humorous filler in my posts. Like, "lol" or "Lmao". I was just trying to break it to Lunir easily, but from the other posts he/she/it seems as if he/she/it is not getting the picture. I'm not decoding anything, I just don't believe that love is the whole of the law. If there is such a law, like the law of nature, it would be self-preservation.

-F.R.


Edited by FlameReborn (09/27/09 01:35 PM)

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#30113 - 09/27/09 04:46 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: FlameReborn]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
Yes, your acquaintance does not sound too au fait (lol). And yes, your assumption is correct – to a point. Crowley did not believe there was a difference in paths – for the outer/lower orders. As for the law/love thing – it is complicated, and if you were really interested, a simple forum search should turn up a previous explanation I posted.

Perhaps it was just an off-the-cuff remark, but I do not agree with your assertion that self-preservation may be a fundamental law of nature – consider suicide in all its forms (no, I don't mean 'go kill yourself'). It is more probable that a need for power/control is the primary law of nature – for it is with a loss of authority that animals (humans included) consider ending everything – sometimes not just their self.

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#30115 - 09/27/09 04:58 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Mercury_Templar]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3893
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:
It is more probable that a need for power/control is the primary law of nature – for it is with a loss of authority that animals (humans included) consider ending everything – sometimes not just their self.


I've yet to hear of the suicidal worker ant or drone bee. There are always alphas in mammalian groups, but the non-alphas still don't commit suicide. There is always a pecking order in every chain of power.

It seems to me that the thirst for power is a primarily human development, and not even universal to ALL humans.Many are content with their lot in life.

In what way would you consider the need for power as a law of nature, much less the 'primary' one?
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ideological vandal

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#30117 - 09/27/09 05:23 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
MT: Can you expound on what you mean? I may be missing your point.

I have to admit, the "law of nature" throws me off a bit. I could see it as a "subset imperative," as in those with the genetic predisposition to Alpha status might have an inborn imperative within that subset of the given species to gain power. Most notably it would be in the most aggressive of Alphas, but truly, when you consider any strata in a grouping that would form Alpha personalities, there will rise certain individuals who are "Alphas" within that strata.

"The best of the worst," for lack of a better term. Within the human condition, you may have a lowest class strata, and even here, there will be some who, while firmly entrenched in this strata, might be seen as "a cut above" all the others who populate the same strata. So here, I think that the subset imperative still applies, while as a "law of nature" would appear to indicate that all within a given subset should strive for power. We can pretty easily see that at least in the case of humans and other herd creatures, it's doesn't appear to be the case.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#30118 - 09/27/09 05:37 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
I would agree with MT. IMO the "need for power" is a primary motivating force of our species. In what way? Perhaps the word "power" here should temporarily be put aside because it has certain associated concepts attached to it that may obscure the essence.

We could fragment the word/concept "power" to the concept of the human desire of Exertion, Assertion, Influence, of a human being; or any associated aspect of such human being such as his: Will, Desire, Opinions, Beliefs, Laws, Mind, Force, Body; upon "something."

In more simpler terms it could be understood as a desire or natural need to obtain dominion in some psychological and/or psychical sense over something via Exertion, Assertion, or Influence.

We see this act of the human animal exerting it's will on his own primal self and primal nature by first collecting together as tribes and using/exploiting natural resources to make villages. This would evolve into civilization: city-states and kingdoms or empires.

One can say that such power struggles of armies and nations, and capitalist tycoons and such may be a reality to SOME people, but surely not to ALL. But if we look on an individuated level... even here in this forum, we see this same natural human need to exert, assert, influence with some aspect of ourselves on others:

In the form of users and posters with egos going into threads attempting to Exert, Assert, Influence others with their own fabricated opinions disguised as "debating" and so forth. As if their/our opinions, convictions, ideas, ways, is better or more "righter" than others.

This natural and primary need for power has shaped our human world... and it shapes this forum, doesn't it?


Edited by Caladrius (09/27/09 05:39 PM)
_________________________
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#30120 - 09/27/09 05:56 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Jake999]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
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Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
You have answered your own question Dan – there is always a pecking order. It is when this order breaks down – individually as well as in group situations – that problems start to occur.

And Jake: I have seen this behaviour occur in a wide range of personalities and social standings. I do a fair amount of social work (unpaid – good guy badge) and nine times out of ten, it is indeed a loss of a 'sense' of power/control that leads to suicidal thoughts/actions. Just for the record, I have only had one 'subject' actually proceed with a substantial full attempt – he/she is fairly stable now (after much follow-up) and it is nice to be thanked sincerely on a regular basis (I don't really do all this for nothing ;\) )

Perhaps the connotations of the term power are getting in the way. Mayhap 'place' is a better term to use. But with place, comes a sense of power and control – even if it is just over one's self.

Perhaps a new thread on this subject may be necessary.

M.'.T.'.


PS Just read Caladrius’ post – very cool – what he/she said \:\)



Edited by Mercury_Templar (09/27/09 05:59 PM)
Edit Reason: ...added PS
_________________________
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#30121 - 09/27/09 06:13 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Mercury_Templar]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3893
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

there is always a pecking order. It is when this order breaks down – individually as well as in group situations – that problems start to occur.

Well, yes. I would agree with that. I don't really see how that follows from "a need for power/control is the primary law of nature" though. This is more of a general observation on the sociology of /some/ humans than any sort of immutable 'law' applicable to all of 'nature'.

Perhaps you just like to use dramatic language? :P


I think a new thread on this topic could be fruitful.


_________________________
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ideological vandal

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#30123 - 09/27/09 10:24 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
I am considering this from the perspective of understanding suicide – primarily that of humans. I am drawing influence from Jean-Marie Guyau, Émile Durkheim, Immanuel Kant and Friedrich Nietzsche. I am mixing the theories of Anomie and 'der Wille zur Macht' (the Will to Power). I have studied and witnessed the breakdown of der Welle, and the subsequent inception of Anomie, devastate previously stable and positive people on many occasions. My wider observations relating to all of nature are, as you have suggested, general observations.

Yes, I would be willing to take part in a discussion relating to suicide and suicide prevention.

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#30195 - 10/01/09 10:06 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: MissKitty]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
I have used ritual magic to affect a desired outcome and to also reaffirm or consolidate my beliefs. Call it self improvement by acknowledging the achievements of others through a ritual toasting. Timing is most important; however in times of dire need
and practical necessity, I sometimes choose to just do it when I feel it. Emotion plays a great part in this, I agree.

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#30302 - 10/05/09 09:13 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Satansfarm]
Miss May Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 66
Loc: sebastopol, CA
For me personally, the whole process revolves around my emotional state and the success is even more dependent upon it. I find that a true awareness of one's emotional patterns gives way to a whole new level of control in magik.
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#30364 - 10/08/09 12:58 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Miss May]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
 Quote:
but I do not agree with your assertion that self-preservation may be a fundamental law of nature – consider suicide in all its forms (no, I don't mean 'go kill yourself'). It is more probable that a need for power/control is the primary law of nature – for it is with a loss of authority that animals (humans included) consider ending everything – sometimes not just their self.


"Hate your enemies with a whole heart, and if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him on the other!: smite him hip and thigh for, self preservation is the highest law."
(TSB, The Book of Satan, Verse 7)

This is where I got that from M.T.

In psychology it's called the fight or flight chemicals. I struggled with this my freshman year of college, then I was a peace loving student of Buddhism, and I couldn't imagine a peaceful humanity with brains naturally engineered to either run in defense or beat the living hell out of something. If peace was an objective, in my past opinions, we would either have to physically change our brains or spend our lives as human animals always running.

At least for me, as a Satanist, the birthday is another good example (in Satanism) since the day of your existence is the most important, then further importance is spent on taking steps to continue existing, or self-preservation. I don't mean in in a crude brainless form of preservation, I know that we have those fight or flight chemicals, but we can use psychology and sentience to our advantage.

I guess in the end the term self-preservation like Satanic Magic is left to the interpretation of the individual. (The first paragraph in the TSB mentions that even the definition listed in the chapter on what magic is, is left up to personal interpretation.)

-FRB

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#30418 - 10/10/09 10:55 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: MissKitty]
Miss May Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 66
Loc: sebastopol, CA
Perhaps, you need to further examine your definition of magik and put aside your usual stigmas attached to it. Magik is something one uses attain their desires.
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#30921 - 10/28/09 10:35 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
HEX Offline
lurker


Registered: 09/22/09
Posts: 1
Loc: PA
I firmly believe in using blood in my magik and my Sigils
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#30933 - 10/29/09 03:16 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: HEX]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
...pathetic first post - read the rules or 'go away'.

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
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MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#36326 - 03/13/10 04:03 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Ruwan Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/10/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Bahrain
well to be honest I mostly conduct destruction Rituals, I feel instead of conducting love/lust or a compassion ritual. I should just actively do something about the problem.
I conduct destruction Rituals because I cant do anything about the problem, with today’s society one can not just go out an attack another with out the worry of law enforcement.
So I conduct a Destruction Ritual to rid my self of emotions knowing full well that it probably wont do a lick of difference.

its mostly so I don’t do anything stupid when I am confronted with the problem again.
_________________________
The man who choices to ignore the value of his own life, Is not worthy of it.

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#36341 - 03/13/10 09:21 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Ruwan]
Noctuary Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/01/10
Posts: 92
 Originally Posted By: Ruwan
well to be honest I mostly conduct destruction Rituals, I feel instead of conducting love/lust or a compassion ritual. I should just actively do something about the problem.
I conduct destruction Rituals because I cant do anything about the problem, with today’s society one can not just go out an attack another with out the worry of law enforcement.
So I conduct a Destruction Ritual to rid my self of emotions knowing full well that it probably wont do a lick of difference.

its mostly so I don’t do anything stupid when I am confronted with the problem again.

Actually I can relate to this. At least when I was younger. That feeling of wanting to have control during a period of time you feel you have no control. It's almost akin to an eating disorder (as a general you know...I have no control so let me show you what I can control sorta thing.) Anyways..I stopped doing these rituals in my twenties. I realized revenge was better. And there is nothing more vengeful then being happy when life is trying to make you not happy. Jesus, I sound like some hippy. But I hope you get what I am saying. Sorry....currently on Vicodin for back pain. I could be a tad loopy
_________________________
Devils speak of the way in which she'll manifest

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#36374 - 03/14/10 01:59 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
Interesting. To answer your question ritualistic magic is all about the psychodramtic effect it has on everyone involved. But magic doesn't exsist. (Lesser Magic) is basically just being able to read and manipulate. The Dark Force is what you have in you as in your abilities. But nothing supernatural exsists.
_________________________
Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36377 - 03/14/10 05:06 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: exadust]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3893
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

But nothing supernatural exsists.

Are you sure?
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#36378 - 03/14/10 05:17 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: exadust]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"But nothing supernatural exsists."

Can you prove that as well?



Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#36383 - 03/14/10 08:50 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Morgan]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
Everything that exsists is in a sense natural. When the Darkness expanded and chaos was brought about the universe was formed. The scientist's call this The Big Bang Theory. Creationists call it their "God" but it is just darkness. So that would imply that there is nothing supernatural that everything is indeed part of nature. If any deity exsists don't you think that in the millions of years the earth has been here that he/she would've presented theirselves to the world. Being a Satanist it gratifies me to be worshipped. Therefore if any deity exsisted he/she would let the world know.
_________________________
Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36386 - 03/14/10 09:47 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: exadust]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I think there is a problem of semantics here. As I understand it, exadust is saying that everything that exists is "natural" as it is part of "nature" - what we perceive as "reality". By these criteria, polyester is a "natural" fabric as it was developed from man's creation and use of plastic. I can buy that.
However, when people start throwing the word "supernatural" around they are invariably referring to phenomena which (so far)cannot be proved or disproved by empirical means. These include, for example, poltergeists, precognition, non-corporeal entities such as angels and daemons and so on. To state as if it were fact that these do not exist is evidence of lazy thinking in my opinion. Just because they do not lend themselves to "proof" does not mean that the burden of disproof is lifted from the disbeliever's lips. How can we disprove the existence of phenomena consistently reported over centuries by diverse cultures?
I can appreciate people claiming that they only believe in the existence of that which they have apprehended with their five (sic) senses. However, my reply to that is that I have personally encountered phenomena which may safely fall into the category of "supernatural" and had no physical or mental screws loose at the time. Certainly, these episodes were subjective experiences but you may as well say so is eating and defecating and no-one would deny that these are objectively "real".
This is why, in my personal philosophy, I do not categorize demons and so on as fragments of the human mind but as conscious energies which may interact with the mind if that mind is of sufficient capacity to know how to work with them. Our apprehension of such energies will naturally be subjective but experience tells me that there is an objective "other" involved. Of course, I can't prove or disprove this but who cares so long as it works? ;\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#36398 - 03/14/10 10:47 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: felixgarnet]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
Yes poltergiests and other phenomenon occur. But that is the result of the chaos in the universe. They are also part of nature they are sentient beings but are not deities. They are a form of energy nothing else.
_________________________
Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36405 - 03/14/10 11:19 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
EVP has been proven to catch out of body voices. Sound is a type of energy.

When they manifest they draw on energy.

Anything they produce whether it is voices or the closing of a door it requires energy so therefore they are a type of energy.

I have witnessed such events and I don't believe to be demons or angels. They are intelligent but not supernatural.
_________________________
Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36408 - 03/14/10 11:37 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
Are you speaking of the chemicals the brain produces that induces euphoria? It could be but at the same time that would ruin the fantasy.
_________________________
Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36410 - 03/14/10 11:52 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
Whether the supernatural exsists is irrelevent. But the effect of psychodrama speaks for itself.
_________________________
Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36426 - 03/14/10 03:39 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: exadust]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"Interesting. To answer your question ritualistic magic is all about the psychodramtic effect it has on everyone involved. But magic doesn't exsist. (Lesser Magic) is basically just being able to read and manipulate. The Dark Force is what you have in you as in your abilities. But nothing supernatural exsists."

"Yes poltergiests and other phenomenon occur."

"I have witnessed such events and I don't believe to be demons or angels. They are intelligent but not supernatural."

"Whether the supernatural exsists is irrelevent."


Jesus Fucking Christ on a Spike, make up your fucking mind.
This is why people are telling you to think more before you post.

Just because ghost hunters use an EVP doesn't mean it is fact. As Maw said, sit in front of a turned on white/snow screen channel on tv and you will hear voices in the snow too.

So, to take what you say as real, then can we jump and say you believe in jesus and god as being real since people claim they are forces of nature, energy, and intelligent beings?

Oh, and how do you tell if its a demon or a poltergeist tearing up your kitchen? Does the Xitian church excise poltergeists or demons from living in your brain? How is a demon not a form of energy but a poltergeist is? Is not a demon more intelligent than a poltergeist?

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#38943 - 05/31/10 03:06 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
cadfael Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 15
Loc: Tn.
What is real magic? Only those who have gone thru the endless nights and days know. The truth is in each. While some can broadcast, many disparate. Dr LaVey said donot deine that which you know. Magic is it at all among those who profess? Live your life to your will.
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#39569 - 06/26/10 05:25 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: cadfael]
NeronCaesar10 Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 7
Loc: NC
I believe every ritual one performs,calls upon an unclean spirit...which increases ones Greater Magic...to exalt your thoughts from a low thinking of ones self: low-self esteem..into adoration..which has already been stated:if I'm not mistaken-is the basic principle of Greater Magic...as far as manipulating the physical realm(illusions-entertainment magic)...I do not really understand,though i have seen it done. I see entertainment Magic as somewhat useless,and would rather practice Magic so that it will affect my life and evolve my mind for greater causes.
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Worship Thyself...Affirm Thyself...If you cannot Affirm Thyself...Change

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#39769 - 07/02/10 12:39 AM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: MissKitty]
NeoZombie Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/21/10
Posts: 60
Loc: Minnesota, USA
Satanism is 100% proven by science it's not just some saying somewhere. This site is all I can add here.
This site rocks!

http://www.faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/

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#40868 - 07/26/10 03:12 PM Re: Satanic Ritual Magic- Psychological? [Re: MissKitty]
mutt mutton Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/29/08
Posts: 13
Loc: paragould ar
I read in Some of Lavey's writings that you should
Decorate the Chamber in your on imagination To stimulate
the Atmosphere to create a perfect working .
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Damn if they do!
Damn if they don't

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