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#27097 - 07/14/09 03:56 PM Calling All Psychonauts
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
The following is an excerpt from a writing by Terrance McKenna titled "Tryptamine Hallucinogens and Consciousness". If you aren't familair with McKenna, I suggest you look him up as he has some pretty interesting theories. Probably his most famous is the one where he proposes that human evolution, specifically language, self-reflection etc., was catalyzed by intertactions with hallucinogenic mushrooms and plants.

Please note that I am not making claims of validity concerning the information presented the piece to follow. Instead I submit this because I find it an interesting subject and think that it might stimulate some conversation.

 Quote:
There is a very circumscribed place in organic nature that has, I think, important implications for students of human nature. I refer to the tryptophan-derived hallucinogens dimethyltryptamine (DMT), psilocybin, and a hybrid drug that is in aboriginal use in the rain forests of South America, ayahuasca. This latter is a combination of dimethyltryptamine and a monoamine oxidase inhibitor that is taken orally. It seems appropriate to talk about these drugs when we discuss the nature of consciousness; it is also appropriate when we discuss quantum physics.

It is my interpretation that the major quantum mechanical phenomena that we all experience, aside from waking consciousness itself, are dreams and hallucinations. These states, at least in the restricted sense that I am concerned with, occur when the large amounts of various sorts of radiation conveyed into the body by the senses are restricted. Then we see interior images and interior processes that are psychophysical. These processes definitely arise at the quantum mechanical level. It's been shown by John Smythies, Alexander Shulgin, and others that there are quantum mechanical correlates to hallucinogenesis. In other words, if one atom on the molecular ring of an inactive compound is moved, the compound becomes highly active. To me this is a perfect proof of the dynamic linkage at the formative level between quantum mechanically described matter and mind.

Hallucinatory states can be induced by a variety of hallucinogens and diassociative anesthetics, and by experiences like fasting and other ordeals. But what makes the tryptamine family of compounds especially interesting is the intensity of the hallucinations and the concentration of activity in the visual cortex. There is an immense vividness to these interior landscapes, as if information were being presented three-dimensionally and deployed fourth-dimensionally, coded as light and as evolving surfaces. When one confronts these dimensions one becomes part of a dynamic relationship relating to the experience while trying to decode what it is saying. This phenomenon is not new - people have been talking to gods and demons for far more of human history than they have not.


Full article: http://deoxy.org/t_thc.htm
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#27098 - 07/15/09 01:17 AM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Romeoz God Offline
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Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 3
It seems to me to be a bit of a stretch to make the claim quantum mechanical phenomena can be experienced through ASC (altered states of conciousness). Sure in these hallucinations the experiences are psychophysical.. interior.. the claim to me at this point that we can experience our own brain structures in ASC makes more sense than quantum mechanical phenomena. I could however be misinterpretating what is meant by that.
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#38191 - 04/30/10 12:18 PM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Kali Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 33
Yes, this is an interesting and valuable theory IMO. We see all across the world that cultures practiced using entheogens and substances to induce altered states of consciousness. To the Native Americans, Tobacco was used spiritually but to Western civilization Tobacco became more of a recreational drug. Using a drug just for fun or habit seems to defeat any benefits both psychologically and spiritually.

In my mind, chemicals can be valuable to consciousness, if not for "spirit pursuits" but for psychological ones as well. An example would be a trauma or an inability to socialize due to anxiety, taking a drug which creates a setting of peace- such as pot or a sedative, can actually greatly improve a psychological association. But do drugs themselves change the quantum reality? Well I have no idea. But, I think it's all a matter of our perceptions at the brain level.

On a side note: I do know there have been reports of induced psychic phenomena through drugs. That just boggles my mind. Can a drug really put you outside yourself? It brings a lot to the table, such as the idea that our brains are capable of more than we are yet aware of.

I also think that you can altar your perception without drugs. I've been reading a book The Power of the Actor. In the book, there's a section that describes ways of tricking your mind to feel like you are drunk or high. It's kind of fun, and you'll start to feel the effects. Granted, not as intensely as the real thing for acting. But I imagine with some work you could trick your brain into thinking you were on a drug without actually taking it. That would be a kind of placebo effect.

One of the famous psychonauts, Aleister Crowley, did extensive work with achieving altered states in order to communicate to his interpretation of the divine. Psychodrama can help achieve these states, and gnosis. The problem with getting into those states is that you need a really tranquil open mind...to be in a child-like meditative state- or at least that's how it seems to work for me.

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#47421 - 01/27/11 09:38 AM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: Kali]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 277
Loc: New Mexico
I'm very interested in DMT at this point in my life because it is one of the most powerful psychedelics available to shamanistic people. The amazing thing about it is it is readily available in almost all plant life on the planet, and our brain produces it. So the substance is uncontrollable, but the more amazing thing is, how do we account for the prevalence of the substance in nature? There's got to be an evolutionary incentive for plants to be pumping out this shit at some level or another all over the globe.

Kali there is evidence to suggest some kind of network at play, details are verrrry sketchy right now in the scientific community, but the basic premise is that in quantum theory hypothesis, we are projecting our minds and not just passively taking everything in. I believe Gary Lissi's theory of everything covers this. I'm not too sure I spelled his name right. Also the scientist I think he was living in the UK who laid claim to the James Randi prize for effectively proven some kind of psychic phenomenon of an unknown nature taking place in canines. Randi didn't have the money of course, and they didn't want it anyways but the study itself was exciting and groundbreaking, and a bit unnerving.


edit:

mmm i looked it up it was Garrett Lissi, durrr



Edited by 97and107 (01/27/11 09:42 AM)

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#47424 - 01/27/11 10:07 AM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: 97and107]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: 97and107
\Also the scientist I think he was living in the UK who laid claim to the James Randi prize for effectively proven some kind of psychic phenomenon of an unknown nature taking place in canines. Randi didn't have the money of course, and they didn't want it anyways but the study itself was exciting and groundbreaking, and a bit unnerving.


I'd like to see a link for some proof of this, because I have heard nothing about it or seen anything on it in any of the associated outlets it SHOULD appear in.
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#47426 - 01/27/11 10:27 AM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: Jake999]
97and107 Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 277
Loc: New Mexico
if you havn't seen it you really need to because it is astonishing and very well done.

ah here it is:

Rupert Sheldrake. Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home (1999)

No article for you, sorry, I have no idea where on our forums I misplaced it, the upgrade to vbulletin didn't leave our search engine's marbles intact. I have a great video interview somewhere explaining it all. But that's his name. And it's important to look at his work when coupled with the late quantum theory emerging, because his stuff is playing right into the hands of physicists, not the biological community at large....they've actually somewhat disowned him, which is unfortunate since it's clear that physicist's ears have perked right up. Whatever Sheldrake is after, there is something odd going on in the studies that needs to be interpreted. You don't go to Cambridge and Harvard just to invent fairytales.

I'll leave you to it.

(if you want to comment more maybe make a new topic I was interested in the DMT stuff as well)

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#47428 - 01/27/11 11:11 AM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: 97and107]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: 97and107
but the more amazing thing is, how do we account for the prevalence of the substance in nature? There's got to be an evolutionary incentive for plants to be pumping out this shit at some level or another all over the globe.


A great question that I'm sure the minimalists will respond somewhat similar to: "there doesn't have to be a 'point' to any feature in the evolutionary process, it's the one monkey who accidentally happened to type out the complete works of Shakespeare."

JK
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#47430 - 01/27/11 12:00 PM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: 97and107]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Rupert Sheldrake, even when he had his moments of fame in the media, is well known for his pseudo-science. Morphic fields, animal empathy. Old bullshit, new package.

It did to his career as a scientist the same crack junkies do to their health.

D.

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#47434 - 01/27/11 12:45 PM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: Diavolo]
MindFux Offline
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Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 174
JK, I wouldn't go that far. A minimalist only has to point out that DMT in plants, like any other alkaloid promotes a foul fucking taste, and so is one of many alkaloids found in many plants. (The vast majority of which have no effect on human physiology). Whether they produce a psychotropic effect or otherwise, an evolutionary justification can be found on the basis that they taste disgusting, and as a result tend to prevent the plant being regularly eaten.

They also need only point out that DMT isn't the only alkaloid that -maybe- is produced in the human body/brain, most of which do nothing for us psychologically at all.

It's tempting to imply a teology of nature to the fact that it's in plants and it's in humans (like a lot of alkaloids). In fact it dosn't require hard line minimialism to make the point that there just aren't that many alkaloids out there, and it's a very useful biological configuration (shit amino acids are technically alkaloids according to some interpretations, precursors to them in others) and they are often fundamental biochemical components. As a result there are bound to be and in fact are numerous instances of chemcals being produced by both plants and animals. Go figure.

Basically there's a good evolutionary reason for a plant to produce the alkaloid DMT, and it's close companions. They taste bad, thus preventing long term eating of the plant, thus promoting reproductive success.

It has a good evolutionary purpose in humans too, theorized in the very minute doses it's ever been found in a human body to aid the brain's visual cortex. (Though as much is made of the use of DMT in the 'Occult' world, the science is far from conclusive and no where near conclusive enough to say, 'we trip on DMT in our dreams', but enough to say, it's pretty essential to some pattern recognition functionality in the brain). It's a common biological molecule, one of many that has one evolutionary purpose in plants, and another in other types of life. As a cross side effect, that results in us getting high, so be it, but it doesn't require a teology of nature to get there when there are very good evolutionary justifications for its presance.

If it genuinely served no evolutionary purpose in plants and only caused humans to get high, then fine, that would appear to be teological to a point, but to date I'm yet to hear of a molecule that fits the bill.


Edited by MindFux (01/27/11 12:48 PM)

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#47454 - 01/27/11 07:03 PM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Rupert Sheldrake, even when he had his moments of fame in the media, is well known for his pseudo-science. Morphic fields, animal empathy. Old bullshit, new package.

It did to his career as a scientist the same crack junkies do to their health.

D.


When I saw the name, a lightbulb went off and I did some checking before I went to bed to see if I was right. He DID submit the idea of dogs being psychic because they knew when their masters were coming home (totally ignoring their highly developed sensory abilities in hearing, smell and the linkage of time to expectation)... but these were not in the form of any kind of "scientific" study... no double blind, no longitudinal analysis, etc. What it consisted of was a series of anecdotes by laymen who had what they felt (belief and faith vs replicability and quantifiability) their dogs did that proved they were psychic.

Now I can tell you that cats can tell time. My cats have been eating dinner at 5PM forever. At 4:50 they begin to sit in front of me, beaming their psychic energies to make me feed them. If I tell them, "Go away. I'm busy. Come back in a half hour," they do. People have seen this. It's interesting, but anecdotal at best and hardly worth the awarding of the prize.
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#47484 - 01/28/11 01:46 PM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
About the million dollar hoax mentioned before:

 Quote:
Here are some words that really are from Randi, which he wrote earlier this afternoon...

Let me briefly explain the grudge that Rupert Sheldrake has going against me. First an article entitled "James Randi," located at sheldrake.org:

"The January 2000 issue of Dog World magazine included an article on a possible sixth sense in dogs, which discussed some of my research. In this article Randi was quoted as saying that in relation to canine ESP, 'We at the JREF [James Randi Educational Foundation] have tested these claims. They fail.' No details were given of these tests."

Clever. This implies that I was referring to the specific tests that Sheldrake claimed to have done. I was referring to general tests that the JREF has done over many years involving animals, particularly dogs. To have gone into details of all these tests would have been impractical, but a search of our site would have supplied him with all the details he could possibly wish. Alternately, I could have supplied them, if only he had issued a request. That's what we do at the JREF.

Sheldrake continued:

"Randi also claimed to have debunked one of my experiments with the dog Jaytee, a part of which was shown on television. Jaytee went to the window to wait for his owner when she set off to come home, but did not do so before she set off. In Dog World, Randi stated: 'Viewing the entire tape, we see that the dog responded to every car that drove by, and to every person who walked by.' This is simply not true, and Randi now admits that he has never seen the tape."

Not true. A colleague of mine in Europe told me that he'd seen the tape record, and that he and his colleagues presented a version of it to some students who were asked to record each time the dog was activated. The dog never stopped, reacting to passers-by in the street, cars, any unusual noise and any sort of distraction. The only portion of tape that I was able to see was the section that Sheldrake saw fit to publish, the limited sector that indicated -- to his selective gaze -- the point he wanted to prove. Dr. Sheldrake, may we see the entire video record, so that we may repeat that student evaluation with persons who are, in your view, qualified to see it? I promise that I'll stay behind in Florida, and I'll not put out those "negative vibes" that I'm sure you feel would affect the test. Or are those tapes now lost, or perhaps not available for legal reasons?

In closing, I'll add: When I was in the UK a few years ago, I asked Sheldrake if I could test his wonder-dog, but I was told that the dog -- and its owners -- didn't want me around. I think that explains a lot about how willing Sheldrake is to face real, independent, examination of his claims.

- J.R.


The Sheldrake Kerfluffle

D.

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#47491 - 01/28/11 09:13 PM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: Diavolo]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Notes from a veteran:....

Don't pass judgment until you have been there yourself.

My personal recommendation is to try a few gateway psychedelics first. Just like an astronaut the psychonaut must train for the mission. Start with your basic LSD 100mcg or so should do. Do this a couple of times so you know what you are working with. Then work your way up to something in the 500-800mcg range.

You may want to try your hand at psilocybin (4-hydroxyl-dimethyltryptamine) and mescilin to get the feel for how these work and how you perceive the effects.

All of this is learning to fly a jet plane before stepping up to the Space Shuttle.

When you are ready for liftoff, then graduate to actual DMT. Only use the pure crystalline compound. Avoid any of the herbal preparations as they are more toxic than anything and may not have the correct desired result. They may get you 'high' but this will not be the mind bending psychotronic trip you were looking for. Real DMT will actually take you completely outside your normal perception of reality. You will come face to face with the 'machine elves' (fairies, sprites, angels, extradimensional beings) that actually shape the physical structure of the material world - the beings that live within quantum space.

Also, make a note, the enzyme monoamine oxidase (MAO) is naturally occurring in the body and is used to process your naturally occurring nero-chemicals. Taking an MAO inhibitor (MAIO) will potentiate (make them stronger, longer) the effects of these compounds. Use caution when going this route as it can be potentially fatal - much like space travel! Do your research and learn the mission....

Have fun, be safe, and remember, this is not recreation but rather exploration.
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#49260 - 02/20/11 08:55 PM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: Fist]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Anyone here cultivate sleep paralysis, sensory/ sleep deprivation for psychonautics to do with near death experience?

I ask this because demonic entity encounters, alien abductions etc. can be attributed to what is sleep paralysis. The Old Norsemen would come to call this Night Mara, meaning 'Crusher that comes in the night'.

I have yet to experience any real hallucination or anything close to what I get from 'Lucid Dreaming', but I can get a sobering presence of severity that enables me to pass through the eye of the needle to attain Gnosis/ one-pointed meditation. From cultivating sensory deprivation and sleep deprivation for 'Internal Magick', I have been able to quicken Dark intellectual activity in a hideous altered state where a current like cold black adrenaline surges through my entire body, in my ears, neck, chest cavity until numbness and I am this current, and the strangest realisations happen upon me. All things become bifuricated into information that is leading towards death and information that is prolonging life, everything is meaningless but for the two floods of information, leaving nothing to mean anything.

If anyone has ever had an abscess/ back toothache or other disorientating pain like migraine the mental state is similar but without the senses. All concentration seems to point to only one thing and all in the mind becomes clear and you are only yourself not thinking about anything but the sensation and the purifying stimulation, no matter how unpleasant it's still purifying in this certain way. When this has been attained, I go back to my most prominent near death experience and feel myself dying like microscopic ice crystals forming as the strangest darkness opens up, and opens up, and opens up, like waves of desolation and vertigo as I fall inside...
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#49261 - 02/20/11 09:22 PM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: Hegesias]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I've had sleep paralysis a few times; I'd wake up in the middle of the night but be unable to open my eyes or move at all but my mind was aware that it was awake. The most annoying part was that after much effort I would jolt up, usually hitting my head on my windowsill. None of these experiences ever happened after I had taken any psychedelics though and I certainly never associated them with anything other than sleep paralysis.

I've had a little experience with sensory deprivation tanks but that experience paled in comparison to other trips I have taken. And lucid dreaming I have only done a few times, each time once I realized what was going on, i.e. that I was having a lucid dream, I woke up. I've heard of people being able to make themselves have lucid dreams and have even done research into the processes used by people but so far none have been successful.
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#49265 - 02/20/11 11:09 PM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Lay on your back whilst you are in a sleep deprived state, if you have ingested 'caffeine' this is better because you will be able to concentrate more but is not necessary, the main thing is to be on the verse of literally passing out but you will have an agenda, an objective upon passing into this twilight state.

As you lay there in the darkly lit room look at your hands in a relaxed posture, and move them around then fixate on them in the most comfortable resting position, close your eyes and learn to see your hands as you lay there (black background and brightly lit hands is best, simple and vivid in your mind), open your eyes and keep looking at your hands without a meaning or with is not important just concentrate on your hands and how they are moving in synchronisation with your will, close your eyes and see your hands just as they are, open, close.. you will be sleeping unaware that you are sleeping at first and be moving and viewing your hands in your dream if this is successful, most likely you will be in an environment and the hands will have been replaced with something else as if nothing had changed but your Will, will be present and about the dream making things happen.

Hope this helps and works after a few nights.

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#49285 - 02/21/11 11:52 AM Re: Calling All Psychonauts [Re: Hegesias]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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I am pretty familiar with sleep paralysis. Although when I first experienced it, it was involuntary, I found a technique to trigger it with a high rate of success.

Mine is triggering a vibration through imagining I am laying in a boat rocked by the waves. I let the vibration this causes flow through my body from head to toe and back, over and over again until I suddenly shift into what I call my twilight zone.

I personally am fully paralyzed and sadly can't open my eyes but I hear and feel everything and I am, of course, completely conscious. The experiences are unpredictable but quite intense and when not knowing what happens, you start not only to question your sanity but also your assumptions about reality.

If you want to know what it feels to meet entities of the darker kind, sleep paralysis is the path to take. It can make nightmares seem like pleasantries.

If it gets too much, you can get out of it but it can require tremendous force to will your body back into action.

D.

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