Page all of 4 1234>
Topic Options
#27718 - 07/30/09 12:43 AM Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
"The Devil made me do it!"
http://news.aol.com/article/texas-police-say-woman-kills-baby-eats/588892

How much mental illness plays in this is still being investigated (although it should seem pretty obvious), but what this woman did was absolutely sickening, and pretty much speaks for itself.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#27719 - 07/30/09 01:06 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: The Zebu]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Yeah, people are fucked up, always have been and always will be. Funny how quick so many people are to profess their belief in a God and Devil, but when someone - usually a believer - uses the supposed existance of the deity(s) as justification for something like this; they get off on an insanity plea.

What really irks me is the person shouldn't get a cop out in the form of a "not guilty by reason of insanity" verdict. Does it really matter that the person claims "The Devil made me do it"? If this woman were to say she did it just to see what brains tasted like she wouldn't be given the chance to claim insanity. But wouldn't a justification like that also mean that the person was insane? Either way the person is not stable. The point being that she should suffer the consequence of her actions.

Maybe, since it is Texas, they will fry her anyways. Wouldn't be the first time the state of Texas executes a "mentally handicapped" person. Hell, W sanctioned those executions when he was Govenor, and he has a direct line to God.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#27726 - 07/30/09 02:32 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Apparently from what I read, she has a history of mental illness.
Her boyfriend/husband just left her and her new baby along with her other 2 kids.

I think probably the birth of the kid, the walking out of her partner triggered her mental illness and she lost it.
Maybe she was thinking that by eating the baby she was reclaiming a part of herself and her lost partner?

Who knows?

Its still a fucked up sad situation, if she ever realizes what she did, she might kill herself.

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#27733 - 07/30/09 10:30 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: The Zebu]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Oh for fuck's sake. That excuse again...?

Seriously, can't they come up with something more original, or, better yet, just say they haven't a fucking clue as to why they would do such a vile act?
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

Top
#27737 - 07/30/09 01:32 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Morgan]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
A history of mental illness in no way excuses such behavior. No one will ever really know why she did it.Schizophrenic or sociopath? Doesn't matter to me. She committed the act and now she must pay the price for it. She did try to kill herself. She shot herself and slashed her own throat. To me that seems like she knew exactly what she was doing. Of course, she is only going to say that the devil made her do that too.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#27738 - 07/30/09 01:58 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: DistroyA]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

The battle of good and evil, light against dark is well ingrained in the human animal. Outcries as yours show little understanding of the workings of the human mind. Not that I am a scholar just a watcher and participant. Remember we are talking about a damaged mind here not a rational human.

Most humans cannot see past this original struggle of good and evil. A good number of people when hearing an internal voice thinking it is external would give that voice the name of god or the devil, depending on what it told them to do.

What exactly is it that conveys thoughts to our fingers or mouths? As I sit here and type I can hear in my head as with a voice but not a voice the words as I think them and the spellings as I type them. This is my voice it is internal, is it so hard to fathom what it would be like to all of a sudden feel as if this voice is no longer your own?

None of us can really know what this woman thought she was doing? I do not find it very shocking or have much emotion towards this story. If one even begins to start understanding human behavior not very much will be shocking anymore.

~T~

I am the Alpha and the Omega. I am man.
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#27745 - 07/30/09 03:44 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: ta2zz]
Maxim D Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/21/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Portland, Oregon, United State...
Hey y'all it's okay- the baby's with god now. Wow I just hope she had it baptized before she did it, or else it's just gonna be in limbo forever.

I'd like to rip her arms off. Fucking bitch. Reminds me of those faith healers, except that all they do is sit back and let their children die.

But hey, she did it out of love, right? These people are delusional, and that's what makes them CRIMINALS. Hell, If she's insane, why not use some "electro-shock treatment" straight to the dome- if you catch my drift...?

Kudos to her for using the oldest excuse in the book.
_________________________
The leaders of institutionalized religion should be institutionalized....

Top
#27748 - 07/30/09 07:47 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Maxim D]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Maxim D
I'd like to rip her arms off. Fucking bitch. Reminds me of those faith healers, except that all they do is sit back and let their children die.

All I can do is sit and wonder why you feel the need to rip her arms off? Are you this child’s daddy? How does this story touch your personal life in any way?

 Originally Posted By: Maxim D
But hey, she did it out of love, right? These people are delusional, and that's what makes them CRIMINALS.

None of us know why she did it. So she is a criminal and delusional. You are taking this kind of personal, while doing little more than stating the obvious. From where I sit I see you as delusional for wanting to instill violence for something that has nothing to do with you or yours. Not very far from a criminal move to me.

 Originally Posted By: Maxim D
Hell, If she's insane, why not use some "electro-shock treatment" straight to the dome- if you catch my drift...?

Capitol punishment is a reality in Texas, so you may get your wish. Will you be in attendance if they do execute her?

 Originally Posted By: Maxim D
Kudos to her for using the oldest excuse in the book.

Kudos to you for being nothing more than another violent teen.

Really now are you just a defender of innocence, I mean seriously what is your gig? Are you some kind of wannabe superhero or something, Captain Satan perhaps?



~T~

Perhaps it is time to step over the line again.
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#27749 - 07/30/09 09:38 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: ta2zz]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz

The battle of good and evil, light against dark is well ingrained in the human animal. Outcries as yours show little understanding of the workings of the human mind. Not that I am a scholar just a watcher and participant. Remember we are talking about a damaged mind here not a rational human.

Most humans cannot see past this original struggle of good and evil. A good number of people when hearing an internal voice thinking it is external would give that voice the name of god or the devil, depending on what it told them to do.

What exactly is it that conveys thoughts to our fingers or mouths? As I sit here and type I can hear in my head as with a voice but not a voice the words as I think them and the spellings as I type them. This is my voice it is internal, is it so hard to fathom what it would be like to all of a sudden feel as if this voice is no longer your own?

None of us can really know what this woman thought she was doing? I do not find it very shocking or have much emotion towards this story. If one even begins to start understanding human behavior not very much will be shocking anymore.

~T~

I am the Alpha and the Omega. I am man.


Yeah, fair enough on the fact that her mind is completely fubar'd. It doesn't change the fact that she's gone and committed a most disgusting act against her own child. To be fair, whenever I see the words "The devil told me to do it", regardless of the situation, I react in a similar manner to how I did beforehand. That's a trigger for me.

The third paragraph of this post of yours seems like you're going off on an unrelated tangent. It made no sense to me. Care to elaborate at all?
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

Top
#27756 - 07/31/09 12:50 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: DistroyA]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

This paragraph?

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
What exactly is it that conveys thoughts to our fingers or mouths? As I sit here and type I can hear in my head as with a voice but not a voice the words as I think them and the spellings as I type them.

First I formed a question, I then gave an example of how my mind works hearing a voice that is perceived as my own. Now having talked to a few different close friends about this voice most agree with me. I in no way automatically think you also think this way so this is why I first formed the question. Following this so far?

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
This is my voice it is internal, is it so hard to fathom what it would be like to all of a sudden feel as if this voice is no longer your own?

I then after all of this ask how hard is it to understand a different perspective where this voice feels like it is external? If you are one who needs an external god is it so hard to see where the next thought goes?

This implies that at least I can see that it seems pretty common for these types to associate this now perceived external voice as coming from god, the devil or demons, while others might think it coming from aliens or Dan Rather.

"Kenneth, what is the frequency?"

 Originally Posted By: DistroyA
It doesn't change the fact that she's gone and committed a most disgusting act against her own child.

Exactly. Now does this ability for a human to do this still shock you?

I mean seriously, “I am the alpha and the omega I am man”. We are man we write the book from A-Z. Everything any god has done man created and man will do. As well as anything any devil demon or evil spirit has done can also be attributed to man.

 Originally Posted By: DistroyA
"The devil told me to do it", regardless of the situation, I react in a similar manner to how I did beforehand. That's a trigger for me.

Well like a smoker I guess knowing your trigger points is half the battle to kicking the habit. She is demented she did something terrible to “her own”. Perhaps I am more tolerant than others to things that do not touch me.

Maybe it just comes with age.

~T~

The mind is such a wonderful diverse thing, I enjoy all the different flavors! ;\)
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#27757 - 07/31/09 01:46 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: ta2zz]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York
Ta2zz, I think you might be mistaken here. What you are referring to, I believe are “thoughts,” in one’s mind, and not the “voices” that psych patients refer to.

I used to be quite curious about the “Voices” that my psych patients referred to when they complained of hearing them, so I would grill them about it.

For the most part, their explenation was, that the voices do not appear as “thoughts,” but as sounds, as if someone was in the same room talking to them.

This got me to wondering, where they (the voices) originated from. I asked some of the psychiatrists, if any research was done, as far as they were aware, that when these voices “talked” to the patients, if their ear drums reacted, or was the hearing center in the brain triggered. I never did get a straight answer, so I’m not sure about that.
But to these people, at least the ones that are legitimate about their complaints, and not faking them, do “Hear” the voices, and are not referring to thoughts in their mind.

Certainly, I wasn’t beyond fucking around with the Psychiatrists, and putting to them the question, “Well, how do we know for sure, that the voices aren’t indeed real, and we are just not tuned in to hearing them. They would just laugh that off though, because they knew I was just messing with them.

On the other hand, some disturbed people, might consider that their thoughts, are not their own, and will claim that an outside entity, such as “the devil,” “Space aliens,” or such, are talking to them through “Thought control.”

Personally, I don’t have a problem with society terminating the lives of people who endanger society by their dellusions. That’s just the way that I feel. That goes for people as well, under the age of 18, who commit “serious” violent crimes.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#27762 - 07/31/09 06:13 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Asmedious]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
This got me to wondering, where they (the voices) originated from. I asked some of the psychiatrists, if any research was done, as far as they were aware, that when these voices “talked” to the patients, if their ear drums reacted, or was the hearing center in the brain triggered. I never did get a straight answer, so I’m not sure about that.


As far as I know, the ear drums can't be "triggered" unless there is an actual sound. When we hear a sound, it is the vibrations traveling through the air that causes our ear drums to vibrate, those signals are then interpreted by the brain to be something that we can either make sense of, i.e know what caused the sound, or not.

The only logical explanation is to assume that these "voices" originate in the head of the person. Essentially being thoughts that are heard, in our minds, but not in our own voice. To assume that these people are hearing actual voices (sounds) telling them do these things only begs the question; why can these voices only be heard by a select few? What makes them so "special" that they can hear these voices when most others can't? Until those questions can be answered, it goes against logical thinking to say they are "hearing" these voices with their ears.

 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
Personally, I don’t have a problem with society terminating the lives of people who endanger society by their dellusions. That’s just the way that I feel. That goes for people as well, under the age of 18, who commit “serious” violent crimes.


That, I agree with. There are some people that we, as humans, would be better off without.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#27764 - 07/31/09 11:22 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: ta2zz]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Yeah, I think I see where you're coming from now on that paragraph I got a bit puzzled by.

It does shock me, and yet, I'm not surprised that a human can do such a thing. Gorillas and chimpanzees have been known to do the same to their young in the past. It just pisses me off that an innocent child was killed in such a vile manner (And whether you're s hocked or not, I'm sure you'll agree that it's pretty vile.

As for the trigger thing, you do prove a point. Incidentally (And pretty unrelated), I'm quitting smoking (With the help of nicotine lozenges of course...). ;\)

And yes, everyone deals with things differently. I won't argue with that.
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

Top
#27772 - 07/31/09 10:56 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Morgan]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
This sounds like a case of postpartum psychosis, the mother lost her grip on reality and did something insane.

Hopefully the judge will work with psychiatrists to give a fair and objective assessment of her mental state and thus capacity for responsibility at the time, before passing sentence.

Top
#27856 - 08/03/09 11:01 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Meq]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
I hate reading about kids being hurt. On the other hand, we have abortion in Denmark, and if the women had asked for an abortion before the child had been born, she could have had an abortion. Why is this different? I guess I get upset because the child had already been born, and is now viewed as an individual, even if its existence is still totally dependent on its mother or other caregivers. In some cultures, killing the child would still have been seen as legal, if the mother did it to keep the size of the family down in times of need.

But why do I react? It is not my child, or a child belonging to my family. I guess I react because I am a human being, and feel empty and sympathy towards the child. This says something about human nature. I even feel sympathy towards its mother, because I am convinced that she will feel just terrible when she realize what she has done to her baby (I guess trying to commit suicide was part of this realization). Death penalty would not be a punishment but treatment and returning her to mental health again would. Then she had to live with what she had done.

- Amina

Top
#27934 - 08/05/09 02:22 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
Another case of mental illness with Satan in the role as mr. evil voice: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sa...9-1225757604119
Top
#27961 - 08/05/09 10:15 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
One liners are not tolerated on this site.

Since you have been here from 3/8/08, you should know this already.


Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#27972 - 08/06/09 04:31 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Morgan]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
Morgan, Is it just me or are your just "out to get me". No mod have deletet my post, and as far as I can see, you are not a mod. You would obvious like to be one, but you are not. Maybe it is less of a problem that I posted one onliner because I am not in the habit of making oneliners? As far as I remember I was told to make shorter contributions on my last visit. But to make you happy:

The news article is about a mentally ill boy who killed his father and tried to kill his mother. The boy was "in to Satanism", at least the media say so, but it is rather obvious IMO that he had a mental condition (he could be "into Satanism", but this is not the most obvious explanation of his actions). So it is not a case of "the Devil made me do it" but a case of "mental illness confused as Satanism because our Christain culture makes people identify antisocial audio hallucinations as the devil". In this way, I view the to story as related, and that I why I decided to share it in connection with the old story in this topic.

- Amina

Top
#27990 - 08/06/09 02:10 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Actually I was going to mention it yesterday as well. You were simply told the workings of the site as you were told in your first post. Those that cannot get it after a year are not tolerated well by most.

 Originally Posted By: Amina
The news article is about a mentally ill boy who killed his father and tried to kill his mother. The boy was "in to satanism", at least the media say so, but it is rather obvious IMO that he had a mental condition (he could be "into satanism", but this is not the most obvious explanation of his actions). So it is not a case of "the Devil made me do it" but a case of "mental illness confused as satanism because our Christain culture makes people identify antisocial audio hallucinations as the devil". In this way, I view the to story as related, and that I why I decided to share it in connection with the old story in this topic.

Are we reading the same article?

“Numerous drawings, text books and exercise books full of handwritten "musings" on Satanism and the afterlife were also found, the Supreme Court heard yesterday.”

So apparently the boy wrote things on Satanism and the afterlife. This is not the media saying anything, just relaying the evidence. It is not a case of Satanism being confused with anything. The only person confused here is you.

“Counsel for the youth Andrew Haesler SC said his client had a "disease of the mind" and was suffering from schizophrenia.”

"He was not capable of reasoning the rightness or wrongness of his actions," Mr Haesler said.”


Now as far as people identifying the voices they might hear as being from god or Satan well yes that was discussed here… But that is the only thing on topic yet it is not mentioned or even hinted at in the article in question.

Where in this article does it say anything about this kid hearing voices? What connects this story other than your confused view and the words Satanism and devil being closely related? Can you understand this or are you really that blind?

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#27998 - 08/06/09 03:53 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: ta2zz]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
Are we reading the same article?
]

I read a few articles on the case, but I had the impression that more then one link would be inappropriate? But yes, we are reading the same article.

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
So apparently the boy wrote things on Satanism and the afterlife. This is not the media saying anything, just relaying the evidence.


Maybe, maybe not. In some cases books on Satanism turn out to be books on Wicca or role paying games. But this is not the point. My point was that the media thinks his involvement or interest in Satanism (who knows if his Satanism reflected anything beyond his own imagination) is relevant to the story.

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
does it say anything about this kid hearing voices?


Yes, the article says:
 Quote:
Psychiatric examinations revealed the boy was delusional and had - on at least three separate occasions - heard what he thought to be the devil's voice, Mr Miller said


 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
What connects this story other than your confused view and the words Satanism and devil being closely related? Can you understand this or are you really that blind?


I both cases we have mentally ill people who think they hear the voice of Satan, and why commit criminal and violent acts. In both cases the most obvious explanation IMO is mental illness, but the media chose to highlight the nature of the persons delusions. Yes, the boy wrote on Satanism, but it would also be more obvious to explain his interest in Satanism (homemade or influenced by others) as a part of his delusions. This would not be unusual for people who suffers from schizophrenia - they often mix delusion with religious ideas and what ever they pick up.

By the way - I don't see why you have to call me an idiot, just because you missed the relevant part of the article.

- Amina


Edited by Amina (08/06/09 04:10 PM)

Top
#28009 - 08/06/09 06:32 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Fuck me this is what I get for posting in between the stupid questions at work. Now let us get this back on track shall we.

The last line should have read:

Where in this article does it say anything about this woman hearing voices?

The original article in this thread states nothing at all about the woman hearing voices. In fact we are told that police said she told them the devil made her do it. There is no mention of voices in the story. Unless of course you’re just looking at the picture, there we can see the writer used his journalistic license to say the devil “told” her not “made” her do it. Still the connections between the two stories are very weak. Yes they are both news, yes they both involve killing and yes the both mention the devil or Satanism, that’s about it.

One involves a mother who for reasons unknown killed her newborn the other a child who killed his parents hoping they would be better people in the afterlife.

 Originally Posted By: Amina
My point was that the media thinks his involvement or interest in satanism (who knows if his satanism reflected anything beyond his own imagination) is relevant to the story.

I know your point and while I can see it in the headline of the article you linked, the same is not the case of the original article that this post is about.

 Originally Posted By: Amina
Yes, the article says: “Psychiatric examinations revealed the boy was delusional and had - on at least three separate occasions - heard what he thought to be the devil's voice, Mr Miller said”

The fact is there was nothing said about voices in this thread until I brought them up. ;\)

 Originally Posted By: Amina
By the way - I don't see why you have to call me an idiot, just because you missed the relevant part of the article.

I rarely fall to the level of name calling. While your feeling may represent my impression, remember you said the words not me.

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#28018 - 08/06/09 09:13 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I am not out to get you. You just do the things you do.
That is the second time you have said that.

If you can not tell the difference between discussions and personal attacks, you have issues.

I am not a Mod, but I am blue colored familiar. As such I am supposed to help show people sometimes the error of basic mistakes to say the very least.

It doesn't matter to me if I am a Mod or not. In the past when I had more time I was a Mod on the Satanism forum. You weren't around then so that is why you don't know any better.

Once I gave you a warning, what would be the point of having every other mod or admin telling you the same thing.

Or do you need multiple people to tell you the same thing before it sinks in?

If anything, you just show more of your weaknesses.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#28031 - 08/07/09 01:43 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Morgan]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
The only opinion I have to offer here is that although it was grotesque what she did, at least the culling she did was her own - obviously damaged - bloodline and not anyone else's. I understand the fears and the feelings of inadequacy that come with being a new mother...your emotions are crazy and you are caught between marvelling at what has sprung from you and wondering if you *really are good enough* and all that doodly doo, but to give that a classification and make it an excuse for atrocity is the part that is inexcusable.

I don't give a shit how much post-partum any of these women suffered from and I don't give a damn if the devil was redlined into their cerebrum, crazy is crazy and no baby ever did a damn thing to get murdered over. So fry the bitches and move on, keeping in mind that if she was THAT fucked up, chances are her offspring would have magnified that crazy-gene, if for no other reason than because it was raised by her.

It sucks, but better she kill her own kid than set her eyes on mine.

Top
#28034 - 08/07/09 03:42 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: ta2zz]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
Where in this article does it say anything about this woman hearing voices?



Eh, so in one case we have a doctor telling us that the boy said he heared a voice and believed it to be the devil, and in the other case we have someone telling the media that the women believed the devil had told or made her kill her baby? Like, maybe the devil and the women had some sort of mail correspondence going on, who knows, or maybe he just turned up and gave her sort of an evil grin, witch she translated into a command to kill - but silliness aside, don't you think (as others in the discussion obviously DID!) it is a case of mental illness including audio hallucinations or something similar? Come on, no need to be silly, unless you want to go back and call all the other contributers to the debate (including mods) who used insanity as a plausible explanations idiots to.

Or, now we are in the land of silly, I guess I also have to for ask for forgiveness to all those who believe in the devil as an actual being because of my unwillingness to include the possibility that the devil DID actually tell those people to kill.

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
I rarely fall to the level of name calling. While your feeling may represent my impression, remember you said the words not me.


If you are unable to see why I got that impression reading your replay, I think no need to work on your writing skills and/or your interpersonal skills.

- Amina

Top
#28036 - 08/07/09 03:57 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: ceruleansteel]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
I understand the fears and the feelings of inadequacy that come with being a new mother...your emotions are crazy and you are caught between marvelling at what has sprung from you and wondering if you *really are good enough* and all that doodly doo, but to give that a classification and make it an excuse for atrocity is the part that is inexcusable.


You could try to think about it like this: The brain is all about chemistry, and mental illness is also also about chemistry. In case of depressions, psychosis, postpartum psychosis, schizophrenia and other mental problems, the brain chemistry has a bigger power over peoples actions then if they had taken a mind altering drug like LSD (or rather, had been given a drug without knowing or wanting it). In the same time, the "trip" is a bad one, and people can easily do something very stupid.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
I don't give a shit how much post-partum any of these women suffered from


Would your opinion be different, if we where told that someone forced a strong mind altering drug into her body, a drug that often make people act violently and even kill there own kids?

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
chances are her offspring would have magnified that crazy-gene, if for no other reason than because it was raised by her.


That depends on what she suffered from. If it is schizophrenia, there is a big chance that her kids could have inherited it, but with the right drugs, they could live more or less normal lives.

- Amina

Top
#28037 - 08/07/09 04:24 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
You could try to think about it like this: The brain is all about chemistry, and mental illness is also also about chemistry. In case of depressions, psychosis, postpartum psychosis, schizophrenia and other mental problems, the brain chemistry has a bigger power over peoples actions then if they had taken a mind altering drug like LSD (or rather, had been given a drug without knowing or wanting it). In the same time, the "trip" is a bad one, and people can easily do something very stupid.


All that proves is that culling is - in point of fact - the appropriate answer to the question. Unless of course you would rather we deport them all to Denmark so you can hold their hands and sing "Let the Sunshine In" with them. A broken arm can be fixed. A bad heart can be fixed or even replaced. But a fucked up brain is totally different thing altogether. And while a person who loses their arm poses no additional danger to society than they did before they lost it, the person who loses their mind becomes a threat to every man, beast, and piece of property surrounding him/her. Cull the crazy bitch before she decides my kids are next.

She has already proven that she will take another human life, and the life she took was the one life in the entire world that she should instinctually die to preserve. Don't hold her hand, don't comfort her. I don't give a shit if she's not in her right mind...as far as I'm concerned, the combination of wrong mind + murder equals she has no business sharing the planet with the rest of us.


 Quote:
Would your opinion be different, if we where told that someone forced a strong mind altering drug into her body, a drug that often make people act violently and even kill there own kids?


It doesn't matter because that is not what happened. You are missing the point completely: THIS WOMAN, AND THE OTHERS LIKE HER ARE FUNDAMENTALLY FUCKED UP IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY CAN TAKE A PILL OR NOT. What if they forget the pill for a day and knock off some toddlers in the park? What if they get the shits one day and can't keep the medicine in their system? I feel no sympathy for her. I only feel like she is a threat to my own children that needs to be removed. Fuck a pill, fuck counseling. CULL.


 Quote:
That depends on what she suffered from. If it is schizophrenia, there is a big chance that her kids could have inherited it, but with the right drugs, they could live more or less normal lives.


Fuck that. I don't want that shit polluting the gene pool. We have anough nonviolent crazies running around. We don't need the violent kind. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with how great THEIR lives are. Do Satanist wave flowers around in Denmark and try to spread egalitarianism and world peace? What is this shit? Really? Fuck her crazy ass, and fuck your bleeding heart hippy ass as well. Survival of the fittest includes removing the weakest of the links as soon as they become a hazard to the rest. Sometimes mother nature takes care of that for us, but more often than not we have to take matters into our own hands.

If a rabid dog is roaming your streets do you take it in and feed it or do you shoot the fucker? I don't give a shit that she walks on two legs and speaks my language. She is a rabid dog.

Cull.

Top
#28038 - 08/07/09 04:35 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Amina
Eh, so in one case we have a doctor telling us that the boy said he heared a voice and believed it to be the devil, and in the other case we have someone telling the media that the women believed the devil had told or made her kill her baby?

Still grasping at straws trying to prove a link between the two articles I see.

 Originally Posted By: Amina
Like, maybe the devil and the women had some sort of mail correspondence going on, who knows, or maybe he just turned up and gave her sort of an evil grin, witch she translated into a command to kill - but silliness aside, don't you think (as others in the discussion obviously DID!) it is a case of mental illness including audio hallucinations or something similar?

Really? You really did ask me this after you read my last post? If you read my last post and were able to comprehend any of this thread you would see I was the one who brought it up. Hearing a voice that is.

 Originally Posted By: Amina
Come on, no need to be silly, unless you want to go back and call all the other contributers to the debate (including mods) who used insanity as a plausible explanations idiots to.

Why would I ever call myself an idiot. Do you read anything or just write things you think might fit in?

Remember we are talking about a damaged mind here not a rational human. ~ta2zz

 Originally Posted By: Amina
Or, now we are in the land of silly, I guess I also have to for ask for forgiveness to all those who believe in the devil as an actual being because of my unwillingness to include the possibility that the devil DID actually tell those people to kill.

Maybe she had a feeling, maybe after having done the deed her mind could not fathom that anything besides Satan could make her do this. Maybe she was just hungry.

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
If you are unable to see why I got that impression reading your replay, I think no need to work on your writing skills and/or your interpersonal skills.

Again I understand why you got the impression as it does reflect my feelings towards you. I never called you an idiot though the words themselves come from you.

Good day

~T~

EDIT: You have a fascination with the Moderator title don't you.


Edited by ta2zz (08/07/09 04:37 AM)
Edit Reason: Marked
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#28039 - 08/07/09 04:52 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: ceruleansteel]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
All that proves is that culling is - in point of fact - the appropriate answer to the question. Unless of course you would rather we deport them all to Denmark so you can hold their hands and sing "Let the Sunshine In" with them.


Eh, in the case of mental illness we usually use drugs, not sunshine and singing. It helps rather well on schizophrenia and related illnesses, and most people how have suffered a mental illness (that would be 1/6 of the population or something like that, if we include stress and depression!) live normal lives contribution to society and paying taxes. When society has used 18 years to educate and feed a person, killing the person is not the most economical solution, unless the person is not able to contribute to society in any what what so ever.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
A broken arm can be fixed. A bad heart can be fixed or even replaced. But a fucked up brain is totally different thing altogether.


Why? In some cases yes, but in other cases drugs can be used. This in IMO not really different then people who have to eat hart medication for years. Brains are part of the body, not some special container for the soul.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
And while a person who loses their arm poses no additional danger to society than they did before they lost it, the person who loses their mind becomes a threat to every man, beast, and piece of property surrounding him/her. Cull the crazy bitch before she decides my kids are next.


If she suffered from postpartum psychosis as sugested, her psychosis will not be a chronic condition. Also, one would not expect her to go on any kind of killing spree. Those who suffers from postpartum psychosis are a danger to themselves and there kinds, but not to the general public. Depressive people also commits murder, but that usually only kill themselves or if they kill others they usually kill there own family - so they are much less of a danger to the general public then those who commit murder on purpose.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
I only feel like she is a threat to my own children that needs to be removed. Fuck a pill, fuck counseling. CULL.


If culling was my first chose of action to defend my kids, I would be culling other more obvious sources of danger like drug dealers, those who sell and produce unhealthy food and cigarettes etc.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
Do Satanist wave flowers around in Denmark and try to spread egalitarianism and world peace?


No, but we do not have the death sentense in denmark, plus a rather clear reculation of the Nazi death camps because we got invated by the germans. They also culled mantally ill people and sterilized criminals and women who had too sex outside marriage, because they believed criminality and lack of morals to be hereditary.

On this issue I think I am most biased because of my education in the field of psychology. I don't view mental illness a so different from somatic illness - but that is just me and psychology at large sharing this opinion.

- Amina

Top
#28040 - 08/07/09 05:08 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: ta2zz]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
Really? You really did ask me this after you read my last post? If you read my last post and were able to comprehend any of this thread you would see I was the one who brought it up. Hearing a voice that is.


In my original post of the link I explained it as "Another case of mental illness with Satan in the role as mr. evil voice".

Listen, maybe you feel rather original because of your suggestion about a voice, but I am unable to see how this can be so original. Maybe I am the only one who have studied schizophrenia and related illnesses, or who have read about other similar cases of people acting insane because of insanity, but your suggestion is more or less obvious unless we are to believe the woman is making things up or had a mail correspondence we the Devil himself.

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
Maybe she had a feeling, maybe after having done the deed her mind could not fathom that anything besides Satan could make her do this. Maybe she was just hungry.


Sure. I am sorry, but I don't think the police and/or people schooled in psychology would view hunger as the most obvious explanations, or expect a mentally healthy woman to eat her kid. Maybe the explanation about satan came up later on but I have some problem with this theory: 1) Something motivated her in the first place. If not voices something else - and hunger is not a sane explanation. 2) In other cases of schizophrenia and psychosis it have been seen on numeroul occasions that people actually belive ther hear voices etc. It is not an explanation they make up after they have commited a crime. I could go on.

I think this is getting too silly, so I guess I will leave this discussion to you.

- Amina

Top
#28041 - 08/07/09 05:12 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"If culling was my first chose of action to defend my kids, I would be culling other more obvious sources of danger like drug dealers, those who sell and produce unhealthy food and cigarettes etc."

So you think its fine to cull people who produce various foods and cigarettes that you don't like?

How high minded of you to make such a judgement call for all people. Taking away their right to choose.

So what, the Germans culled people from Denmark. The winners always write history.

No, it is just you.
Modern psychology does not share your views.
Modern medicine does not share your views.
Modern law does not share your views.
Satanism certainly does not share your views.

Some people need to be culled, the more the merrier.

Morgan

ps. sorry i didnt talk about more dead babies to put it back on topic


Edited by Morgan (08/07/09 05:13 AM)
Edit Reason: ps added
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#28045 - 08/07/09 05:38 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Morgan]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
"If culling was my first chose of action to defend my kids, I would be culling other more obvious sources of danger like drug dealers, those who sell and produce unhealthy food and cigarettes etc."

So you think its fine to cull people who produce various foods and cigarettes that you don't like?


Eh, one moment I am accused of being a weak person who wish for world peace and singing birds in every tree, and the next moment I am accused of wanting to cull people (or rather "the wrong people" I guess)? I do not have anything to add to my original statement because I think it is quite clear as it is.

 Originally Posted By: Morgan
No, it is just you.
Modern psychology does not share your views.
Modern medicine does not share your views.
Modern law does not share your views.
Satanism certainly does not share your views.


Thank you ya all knowing spokesperson for all Satanism, medicine, psychology and law. Your opinion really mean so much to me.


- Amina

Top
#28047 - 08/07/09 05:51 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
First off, whatever Denmark to America dictionary you are using needs to be scrapped. "Reculation" is not a word and I can only speculate on what you meant by that.

 Quote:
When society has used 18 years to educate and feed a person, killing the person is not the most economical solution, unless the person is not able to contribute to society in any what what so ever.


Save a buck, and save all the hassle that lies in attempting to regulate whether or not the crazies continue to take the meds. Human life is no more sacred - overall - than any other life. I guess in Denmark they hand out the food to you instead of making your family work to earn the money to buy it? And even education is not free. Try again.

And since when is society in general so damn noble and worthy and important? Cog in the wheel, Amina? When you type, all I read is "MOO". Hey, I think your government's nuts are getting dry...time to get back to work...

 Quote:
Why? In some cases yes, but in other cases drugs can be used. This in IMO not really different then people who have to eat hart medication for years. Brains are part of the body, not some special container for the soul.


How can someone who claims to have a degree in anything be so purposefully ignorant? Who talked of souls? I guess some other part of your body controls your decisions and impulses? A person with a heart condition is not as likely to snap and shoot the demons out of their neighbor's grandma than someone who is FUCKING CRAZY.

Let me guess...Denmark has no guns either? How do you people reproduce when there is apparently no penis available?


 Quote:
If she suffered from postpartum psychosis as sugested, her psychosis will not be a chronic condition.


Bullshit. It has been proven that postpartum of that degree is at least as bad and if not worse with each successive birth. But you knew that already, right? Because you have a degree in psychology...you were just testing me, weren't you? But I'm not even stopping at postpartum females. I'm talking about the lot of them. Every crazy bastard or bastette who has ever crossed that line into rabidness.

 Quote:
Also, one would not expect her to go on any kind of killing spree. Those who suffers from postpartum psychosis are a danger to themselves and there kinds, but not to the general public. Depressive people also commits murder, but that usually only kill themselves or if they kill others they usually kill there own family - so they are much less of a danger to the general public then those who commit murder on purpose.


Oh, I see...we should let them live because - statistically - they are only a danger to their own kind? And what was your reasons to defend the crazies who killed because they hear voices? Denmark doesn't have a death penalty? That just proves that Denmark is full of pussies who aren't willing to grow enough balls to solve their problems in a way that makes it stick. I assure you, it costs more to lock a dangerous killer up for the rest of their life than it does to give them a shot or even zap their asses a good one. 500 dollar electric bill or 38 thousand dollars a year?...hrmm...damn, give me a minute here...

 Quote:
If culling was my first chose of action to defend my kids, I would be culling other more obvious sources of danger like drug dealers, those who sell and produce unhealthy food and cigarettes etc.


Yeah, because it doesn't make a damn bit of sense at all to teach your kids to avoid drug dealers and cigarettes...what the hell kind of weak-assed argument are you presenting? Are you even trying? That's like saying a steak knife is more danger to your kid than the rabid dog it sits beside.

The only thing you are doing here is making yourself look more like an idiot. Either you cannot understand English or you are too stupid to make a valid argument. First you are pulling in what-ifs that don't exist, don't matter, and have no bearing whatsoever on the debate (what if someone forced them to take drugs...COME ON!), and now you try to make things that are dangerous DECISIONS look like more of a threat than a raging psycho with a weapon. You're going to the bank with monopoly money.

 Quote:
They also culled mantally ill people and sterilized criminals and women who had too sex outside marriage, because they believed criminality and lack of morals to be hereditary.


A friend of mine gave birth to a daughter who had cerebral palsy. She had her sterilized. It's not inhumane to nip that shit in the bud. It's responsible.

You may have majored in psychology (though I am finding that extremely difficult to swallow) but you obviously have not delved too deeply into sociology. It's perfectly safe to assume that there is a degree of heredity involved in morality and criminality. If it were any other way, then you would see more children from "good families" turning out like the ones from families full of felons and junkies and whatnot. What fool honestly believes that a crack whore will be able to raise a child? What idiot thinks that the rights of a five-time felon should outweigh the need of the masses to sleep soundly at night?

Guess what: I'm a fan of The Cull and I have no problem with sterilization either. If my kids were fubar'd, I'd sterilize them in a second. Responsibility means weighing the pros and cons of everything, and just because a decision doesn't make everyone happy doesn't mean it's the wrong one. Sorry to knock the flowers out of your hair...

 Quote:
On this issue I think I am most biased because of my education in the field of psychology.


I think you are most biased because your brain has been rotted with pinko and socialist values that are a crock of shit. Germany is a land full of robust citizens with good mental and physical health overall. The complete fuckin' nerve of those people!


 Quote:
I don't view mental illness a so different from somatic illness -


I have yet to meet someone who murdered another person because they had a particularly bad cold.

 Quote:
but that is just me and psychology at large sharing this opinion.


There's, what? Ten people in Denmark? If your reference list of so-called academia Satana is anything to judge by I wouldn't trust your psychology references either.

Please don't breed.

Top
#28048 - 08/07/09 05:57 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
To return to the topic at hand. I am not a big fan of wikipeadia, but after viewing what it has to tell about Postpartum psychosis and schizophrenia I would want to recomend reating it (or even better - find a book on the topic if you are so inclined). Af few points from a copy paste to give a general idea:

 Quote:
The majority of cases occur within the first 2–4 weeks after childbirth with a classic 10–14 day meltdown, likely caused by the radical hormonal changes combined with neurotransmitter overactivity. When correctly diagnosed at the earliest signs and immediately treated with anti-psychotic medication, the illness is recoverable within a few weeks. If undiagnosed, even for just a few days, it can take the woman months to recover. In cases of postpartum psychosis, the sufferer is often unaware that she is unwell
]

Symptoms of postpartum psychosis can include:
 Quote:
* Feelings of being ordered by God or a power outside of oneself to do things one would not normally do, like harming oneself or the baby
* Feelings of intense confusion or agitation.
* Seeing or hearing things that others don't


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postpartum_psychosis

- Amina

Top
#28051 - 08/07/09 06:21 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
I so totally do not give a shit.

I am sick and tired of everyone getting their get-out-of-jail-free tickets.

You can't punish me, I'm PMS'ing. You can't punish me, I'm postpartum. You can't punish me, daddy didn't hug me when I was a kid.

Don't give a damn. How come China doesn't have these types of problems? Because they don't fuckin' stand for it, that's why. Would you be happier if we just caned the hell out of everyone who fucks up? Oh, wait, no...because that would make them sad, wouldn't it?

Top
#28052 - 08/07/09 07:10 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: ceruleansteel]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
Human life is no more sacred - overall - than any other life.


No, but if you want to view it from the point of society, economy is a big issue.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
I guess in Denmark they hand out the food to you instead of making your family work to earn the money to buy it? And even education is not free. Try again.


You have public education in public schools, right? In Denmark almost all education is free of charge, also at university level. The fact is that a child is an investment at best - if the child does not turn in to a taxpaying adult and pay tax several years, its parents and the government has investment money without getting its economical investment back.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
Hey, I think your government's nuts are getting dry...time to get back to work...


We have less crime, less religious nuts etc. We also have less poor people and healtcare and free education for all - I guess you view this as insane, but at least *our* streets are not flodded with uneducated, unemployed, poor religious nuts with bad teeth and guns in hand.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
How can someone who claims to have a degree in anything be so purposefully ignorant? Who talked of souls? I guess some other part of your body controls your decisions and impulses? A person with a heart condition is not as likely to snap and shoot the demons out of their neighbor's grandma than someone who is FUCKING CRAZY.


Most insane people do not kill anyone. The correlation between drug use or drinking and murder is much higher then the correlation between insanity and murder. As I said, if culling was my first choice of action to defend my kids, I would go for the drug dealers - and/or those we sell alcohol, now we are at it.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
Let me guess...Denmark has no guns either? How do you people reproduce when there is apparently no penis available?


You are right, we have more restrictions on owning guns. We DO have gangs shooting each other on the streets once in a while, but we have a much lover crime rate then the US, and someone getting shot is a national news story. Even if people do get shot in fights between gangs most survive anyway - I guess they are really bad at aiming or use too small calibers.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
Oh, I see...we should let them live because - statistically - they are only a danger to their own kind?


No, I would let them live for several reasons:

1) We don't have the death penalty in Denmark, and when one considers how the system works in the US and/or less civilized countries (communist, Islamic and others) I would not support its introduction to Denmark or any other countries. I know that the average satanist supports the death penalty, but I think this is more or less because the average satanist is from the US and share the opinion on death penalty with Americans in general.

2) When the case goes to trial the women will probably be cured from her psychosis, and by then probably be horrified about her own actions. If someone wanted to make her suffer, they would not kill her but make her understand what she did. Killing her would not make her suffer - it would only make her disappear. In the same line of though,

3) If she did it on purpose, then she should be send to jail for life. But if she suffered from a psychosis, I don't think she was responsible for her own action. I believe strongly in responsibility, but only if the person is responsible for what he or she did. If a baby hits me in the head or pokes my eye because he does not understand what he is doing, I do not hit him back or strangle him.

4) I don't believe she will kill again, but if there is any danger I would want her to remain i an institution. This is also how the law works in Denmark. If your kill someone on purpose you can only get 16 years in jail. If you did so because of insanity, you get to stay in an institution as long as your are a danger - even if you have to stay for your whole life.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
Denmark doesn't have a death penalty? That just proves that Denmark is full of pussies who aren't willing to grow enough balls to solve their problems in a way that makes it stick.


Listen, I know some people think culling and/or using death penalty is the only moral thing to do. A lot of Christians who turn to the chapter about "an eye for an eye" also believe this.

But if your focus in NOT on morals, but on solving problems, then calling for death penalties should be viewed as any other tool to make society work. In Denmark we do not have the death penalty, and we have less crime. I know you have a different opinion, but all the studies I have seen on death penalty and harder punishments has not convinced me that it works. Yes, that specific person is off the street, but it does not reduce crime in society.


 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
Yeah, because it doesn't make a damn bit of sense at all to teach your kids to avoid drug dealers and cigarettes...what the hell kind of weak-assed argument are you presenting?


You said you wanted a specif women to die as a way to protect your own kids. My point is, that local drug dealers and fast food pushers is a more obvious danger. So if your focus is danger, other points of focus would be more realistic. But no, I am not sure what point of focus you have - personal danger, morality, wht's best for society or something else. As fare as I can see you are all over the place.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
First you are pulling in what-ifs that don't exist, don't matter, and have no bearing whatsoever on the debate (what if someone forced them to take drugs...COME ON!)


Okay, then explain to me what the difference is between acting in a criminal way because of mind altering drugs forced on you, and because of chemistry in your brain outside your own control? I can understand why you would worry if it happened again when the issue is brain chemistry, but why is there a difference in guilt? Chemistry is chemistry IMO.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
It's perfectly safe to assume that there is a degree of heredity involved in morality and criminality. If it were any other way, then you would see more children from "good families" turning out like the ones from families full of felons and junkies and whatnot.


Eh, unless one also look at upbringing. One usually speak of nature and nurture, genes and upbringing. Thinking kids from bad families turn out bad because of genes alone would be a rather one eyed explanation. In some cases genes have something to say, but in the studies I have seen, the conclusion was that genes only matter if the person also have an upbringing in a bad family or neighborhood. A child from a bad family who gets adopted by a good family do not get criminal just because of genes. Even people born with ADHD need more then bad genes to turn out bad.

 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
Responsibility means weighing the pros and cons of everything, and just because a decision doesn't make everyone happy doesn't mean it's the wrong one. Sorry to knock the flowers out of your hair...


One of my big cons is this: Do I trust those in power right now? Do I share the opinions of those who lead the government? Maybe you do this in your Christian society, but I do not even do that in my secularized one. As long as I don't trust those in power, I don't want to give them even more power. As it is, I am rather sure that you would need a new government in the US before you asked for a governmental supported system of culling, unless you and other non-christian individuals who have alternative beliefs and/or an alternative lifestyle should not fear being the first in line. IMO, If you ask for culling, be damn sure you are not the first in ĺine unless you a suicidal!

And yes, I agree that one can support something even if it is an Utopian dream like satanists rising to power and becoming the ones who decide who to cull, but I try to stay in the real world and focus on problems and possibilities at hand. Culling will not be a realistic possibility anytime soon.


 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
There's, what? Ten people in Denmark? If your reference list of so-called academia Satana is anything to judge by I wouldn't trust your psychology references either.


Okay, if you don't share the opinion that somatic and mental problems are closely related, and that mental conditions can we explained and cured in the same ways as somatic ones, then please explain how a problem in the brain chemistry differs from a problem in any other part of the body? Yes, in the old days Freud used to listen to people talk, but today talk is not the only or the best cure at hand. The mind and the brain is not something special - its part of the body.

- Amina

Top
#28053 - 08/07/09 07:16 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: ceruleansteel]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: ceruleansteel
I am sick and tired of everyone getting their get-out-of-jail-free tickets.


But are they? As far s I can see, the US even bring children to trail as adults. I also dislike bad excuses and injustice. I think the only difference is that I do not believe so strongly in free will as you do, and that I believe that people are able to commit actions in specific situations without being fully responsible for there own actions. Thats it.

- Amina

Top
#28054 - 08/07/09 07:26 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
What you fail to understand is that even when it is possible to numb people into normalcy by using drugs, it is only an artificial state and when taking the drugs away, or when the treatment fails, we are stuck with loonies again. I know, it is popular to state that everyone has a right to live and that all have a right to happiness but while that might be a popular tune in the leftist environment, not all here agree with that.

I am personally rather tired off all excuses to make certain behavior excusable. It doesn't matter why someone did something, what matters is that they did something. If it comes to escaping the punishment, all have had a bad childhood, were temporary or totally insane or were being forced by whatever circumstances. I wonder how long it will take before the first defense case is build upon free will being an illusion or a genetic predisposition to certain behavior and in that deny all responsibility. I am pro "one crime, one sentence". You are found guilty, you suffer the punishment. Too bad if daddy beat you with a stick but the world is filled with people having had an identical youth who are doing pretty well. So some are the weakest link and off they go. The current tendency to even give the weakest link worth is disgusting at the least.

Nazis sure sterilized people but it was happening all over the world in those days. At some levels society does not differ too much from farming and one has to realize that certain animals better not breed. So yes, a lot of people got sterilized and that is still happening. None benefits of loonies having kids. You either get kids with the same failures or are stuck with the problem that the parents are incapable of raising them, and society (read the tax payer) has to take the responsibility. The moment I will have to pay because you are incapable of raising your kids, I feel I am entitled to ask for you to be sterilized. After all, if the ones responsible can't take up their responsibility, others should not feel morally inclined to do so, or forced for that matter. Yes I do know socialism still promotes the Christian tune that all life is special and that we are equally worthy but that is an enforced illusion. At best we are tribal and the further we go from our tribe, the less value everyone has.

Now for another thing. For someone that jibes so well with the social idea, your ability to interact socially seems to be funky at least. I don't know what your problem is but when seeing the reactions of others; you sure seem to not know how to behave socially. At the very least, I expect Satanists to be able to adapt to their environment. Maybe you're here with an agenda to lead Satanists to the light but I fear you’ll be going the same route as all other saviors then. Maybe you really think you are something and our lack of reverence must feel awkward. Let me assure you that you are nothing here and if you want to be respected, you at least have to do something (here) to deserve that. Claims are just that; claims. We are not impressed.

Still, you might genuinely wonder why some of us are so hostile. This is not your lair and when joining here, it would have been wise if you at least would have bothered to read what we are about instead of just demanding that we adapt to you. We don't, you are the immigrant in our culture and your culture doesn't interest us at the least, unless you are socially skilled enough to be able to talk about it without sounding like Mother Theresa.
Whatever is the case; the problem is you. You either work at it or perish. There really are no other options. Social Darwinism is functioning here too.

Responsibility to the responsible.

D.

Top
#28055 - 08/07/09 07:33 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
 Quote:
We have less crime, less religious nuts etc. We also have less poor people and healtcare and free education for all - I guess you view this as insane, but at least *our* streets are not flodded with uneducated, unemployed, poor religious nuts with bad teeth and guns in hand.

Less crime and less religious nuts?
I'll be happy to come over and take you to some "suburbs" in Denmark and leave you behind. Less crime by what standards? I can also claim there is "less crime" here in Belgium but there are still places I wouldn't even DARE to set a foot. Just as in Denmark as in the rest of the world.
Or were your statements made by a survey? (Just poking a bit..)

 Quote:
I know that the average satanist supports the death penalty, but I think this is more or less because the average satanist is from the US and share the opinion on death penalty with Americans in general.
Never generalize statements or ideas, it's just asking for troubles. I'm from Belgium and would also love to see the death penalty introduced with some limitations... It's just an easy and swift way to wipe out the weaklings and unproductive leeches out of society.
Also, you can't really compare the US with Denmark. Denmark never really was a economical heavyweight as the US was/is. Economics have their influence on crime rates, it attracts "poor" people for the good climate and wealth which can be found there. And Denmark.. well.. it's just a nice country I'd happily visit for the nice views. Always felt attracted to more nordic countries for vacation.

 Quote:
But if she suffered from a psychosis, I don't think she was responsible for her own action.

Majorly league BULLSHIT. Psychosis or not, she committed the deed and therfor must face the consequences of her actions. Simple as that. That hard to get?

 Quote:
Okay, then explain to me what the difference is between acting in a criminal way because of mind altering drugs forced on you, and because of chemistry in your brain outside your own control?

the chemistry in the brain in a natural way is caused by a disbalans or malfunctioning in one of the "organs". Drugs forced is mostly forcing hormones which are fabricated synthetically into the body. Difference is, that the natural chemistry in the brain it's quantities will always be LESS then the ones you can take in by force or out of free will.
Neverless, forced or not, once addicted to drugs or a malfunctioning of chemistry in the brain you are deemed WORTHLESS and should be culled immediatly.

 Quote:
But are they? As far s I can see, the US even bring children to trail as adults. I also dislike bad excuses and injustice. I think the only difference is that I do not believe so strongly in free will as you do, and that I believe that people are able to commit actions in specific situations without being fully responsible for there own actions. Thats it.

Two remarks:
1) As children think they are "grown-ups" and want to act like them, let them have it, neverless if they commit crimes just as an adult would do I see no reason for bringing them to a special court for children only... If you want to act as an adult, bear the consequences of an adult.
2) You don't believe as much as Cs in free will? Is this actually a statement that you prefer to be told what to do and not to speak your mind?.. Come on tell me you are kidding.


Edited by Dimitri (08/07/09 07:48 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#28057 - 08/07/09 08:41 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Diavolo]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
What you fail to understand is that even when it is possible to numb people into normalcy by using drugs, it is only an artificial state and when taking the drugs away, or when the treatment fails, we are stuck with loonies again.


Using drugs on the mentally ill is not more unnatural or artificial then using drugs on the somatic ill.

My opinion on the other issues you address is already covered in what I answered earlier, especially my concern about not giving more power to the government or others, unless you are sure they are able to wield it in a that will not backfire on you.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
The moment I will have to pay because you are incapable of raising your kids, I feel I am entitled to ask for you to be sterilized.


I can see your point, but if we look at how it is in many countries in Europe, we have to choose between having more kids or invite more immigrants. Our populations are getting old, and we do not have enough hands to take over when the older generation retire. Asking only the most fit people to have more kids is not even a realistic option. I support sterilizing some groups, but if this only left the sane, educated, rich and mentally healthy people (or how ever you define quality) they would have to give birth to more kids. I don't know how many of you supermen would be willing to take part in this, but I think you will have a hard time finding females who want to breed and raise babies just to make society work. They try to do this in some countries by supporting them economically, but it does not really work. But hey, maybe you would rather just invite more immigrants?


 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
At the very least, I expect Satanists to be able to adapt to their environment.


Sorry, but my book on name calling and silliness was lost in the mail. I guess I need to order a new one.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Maybe you're here with an agenda to lead Satanists to the light


Getting a bit out of topic, are we? Again, as with the last person who wanted to share an opinion about my person, and believed she was speaking for all, I am very greatfull to be so enlightened, and I care very much about your opinion. I also appreciate how you and your friend take the time to visit this topic just to set me straight. You make me feel really special.

- Amina

Top
#28058 - 08/07/09 09:03 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Dimitri]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
I'll be happy to come over and take you to some "suburbs" in Denmark and leave you behind.


If we ignore the part about your offer being in the line of some kind of silly threatening statement, what IS your point? If you believe the US has less crime then Denmark, be my guest. But if you come up with some statistic to prove it, you would really surprise me. But hey - go google baby!

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Psychosis or not, she committed the deed and therfor must face the consequences of her actions. Simple as that. That hard to get?


Yes, it IS "hard to get". Issues like this is about morality, political views and arguments based on more or less relevant data. There is not an objectively right answer, only subjective ones - unless you think God or other sources of objective morality is involved.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Neverless, forced or not, once addicted to drugs or a malfunctioning of chemistry in the brain you are deemed WORTHLESS and should be culled immediatly.


Everybody have some sort of malfunctioning or irregularity. If we only include those who get diagnosed with a mental problem that would be 1/6 of the population or so. Wow, and I worried abut the birthrate dropping!


 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You don't believe as much as Cs in free will?


If we believe genes and upbringing makes a difference (or memes now we are at it), the belief in a totally free will has to suffer the consequence. Beliving everyone else are slaves of those things, and that you a unique and above all this is an illusion at best. Man is just another animal.


- Amina


Edited by Amina (08/07/09 09:19 AM)
Edit Reason: link added

Top
#28059 - 08/07/09 09:22 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Amina
[If you believe the US has less crime then Denmark, be my guest. But if you come up with some statistic to prove it, you would really surprise me. But hey - go google baby!



Total crime victims:

Denmark 23%
USA 21.1%

Nationmaster

Now we will argue the value of statistics I guess.

 Quote:
Denmark: A Case Study in Social Democracy

Mises Daily by Per Henrik Hansen | Posted on 7/22/2003 12:00:00 AM

In a previous article—"Denmark: Potemkin Village"—I documented the downside to Denmark. Despite its reputation as a showcase of political utopia, 40 percent of its adult population live on government transfer income, full-time, all-year. A little more than a third of these people are pensioners and the rest are working age. About one third of the people who actually hold a job work for the government or government-owned companies. The effective tax level is around 70 percent, not the 50 percent that is usually reported (the lower figure comes about by disregarding the effects of the sales tax and excise taxes).

My article led to many questions and comments from readers. One reader admitted that the Danish welfare state is very expensive but claimed that it is worth the price. If high taxes buy a society where people feel secure, where crime levels are low, and where people are well educated and live long and healthy lives, maybe the high taxes aren't such a terrible thing!

For now, let's ignore the ethical question associated with all coercive redistribution. Instead, let's look at the extent to which safety, security, and quality of life really do characterize Denmark.

People can feel socially secure in Denmark—at least for now. People don't get rich from welfare but they can live a comfortable life. Practically all people are eligible for one program or another. But the system is unsustainable in the longer run. In the early 1970s only about 300,000 people of working age lived full-time all year on government welfare. Today it is about 900,000. The population size has remained unchanged at around 5 million. In the not too distant future, more people are going to be pensioners and fewer people will be working age. At some point, the trough will be empty.

The welfare state has also nationalized many of the formerly family support functions. In 1960, 91 percent of all women 30 years of age were married. Today, fewer than 50 percent are. Partly this is because people are marrying later in life, and yet a considerable part of the explanation is that many people do not marry at all.

Of the people who do get married, more people get a divorce today. In 1975, 18 per cent of all the marriages from 1950 had ended in a divorce during the preceding 25 years. In 1995, 36 per cent of the marriages from 1970 had ended in a divorce. Of marriages in 1985, 20 per cent ended in a divorce after only 7 years. As a result of the above, many more people live in single households today than did in 1960. In 2000, one third of all adults in Denmark were living alone.

If we next look at the crime level, the Danish Statistical Yearbook 2002 shows reported crimes from 1935 to 1960 to be stable: about 100,000 crimes per year. But from 1960 until today, the number of crime reports has increased by 500 percent, to more than 500,000 per year. And if we look at violent crime, the picture is even grimmer. The number of violent crimes in 1960 was approximately 2,000; it is approximately 15,000 today. This is an increase of more than 700 percent, and it is still rising steeply.

This is a very surprising development. Welfare state advocates often say that crime is caused by poverty. Well, Denmark has become about twice as rich per citizen during this period of rising crime. Another argument is that poverty is caused by economic inequality. Well, Denmark has engaged in the most comprehensive income redistribution program of any nation. Denmark is the most egalitarian country in the world today.

So, a rising crime level is the last thing the welfare statists might have predicted using their own theory. Maybe there is some other independent factor causing the development? Denmark has taken in a great number of immigrants and refugees from third-world countries. These immigrants unfortunately are greatly overrepresented in the crime statistics—something like 5 to 1—but they only account for less than 10 percent of the population, and hence cannot account for the entire increase in crime.

There are better explanations. Massive redistribution schemes have undercut people's respect for property rights. The rhetoric against wealth producers that has accompanied the redistribution has created social antagonisms. People on government transfer income have a lot of extra time on their hands, and their hands do the "devil's work."

The best explanation may be the change in the views of intellectuals. In the 1960s, the theory emerged that crime should not be blamed on the offender but on society. This led to the conclusion that crime should not be punished—at least not very harshly—but instead socially treated.

This idea is still so widespread that the present Minister of Justice, who is a conservative, proposed that prisoners be released when they have served only half their sentence. This, she said, would solve the problem of long waiting lists for the Danish prisons. But it might also make the lists even longer!

Let's now look at education. Many people believe that if education were not provided by the government, only rich people could afford it. Let us compare Denmark to the U.S., where public funding of especially higher education is not nearly as readily available as it is in Denmark. According to the report "Education at a Glance" from the OECD, 15 percent of people between the ages of 25 and 64 has a bachelor degree or more in Denmark. In the U.S.A., it is 26 percent—nearly twice as many. In Sweden, the number is 13 percent, and Norway 16 percent.

If we look at the other end of the education level, those with only 9 years of education, in Denmark it is 34 percent, whereas in the U.S. it is 14 percent. In Sweden the number is 26 percent and in Norway 18 percent. Again the numbers are much more favorable in the U.S.

The U.S. has, according to this report, the best educated population in the world measured by numbers of years of schooling. No country has as many highly educated people as the USA and no country has as few people with only 9 years of education. This is information, I know, is surprising to most Europeans (conceding of course that this is a quantitative and not a qualitative measure).

In Denmark, many people are prevented from gaining the education they would like. All higher education is publicly run and free. Central planners decide how many doctors, architects, engineers, lawyers, economists, etc., that society needs. Students are rationed according to their grades in high school. If your grades are not high enough, you may not begin a degree program of your preference.

There are no objective tests of the quality levels in Denmark that I know of. However, one indication of the falling quality level in education could be the considerable shift in applicants for higher education away from the sciences and into the humanities. Everything involving mathematics, or other clearly demonstrable skills such as natural science or economics, is disliked by the applicants.

What about health? Denmark is one of the few OECD countries where the average life span has hardly increased since the early 1970s. In the early 1970s, Denmark was at the top in OECD comparisons; today it is closer to the bottom.

According to the politicians, this has nothing to do with poor quality at the Danish hospitals or long waiting lists for examination and surgery. They say it is due to the Danish people's habit of smoking and drinking. And yet, often one can read in the news stories of people who die preventable deaths simply because they were on a waiting list and unable to get care.

Sound economic theory can explain the shortages and continuously falling quality in government-provided health care and education. When suppliers are not driven by the profit motive, nor subjected to market competition, they cease being customer oriented. Quality declines and costs rise. Due to the lack of market prices, and therefore no economic calculation, they can neither plan efficiently nor satisfy consumer demand. They do not have the information or the incentives to make rational decisions. This was the case in the formerly centrally planned economies. It is also the case in Denmark, where central planning also prevails in parts of the economy, most significantly in health care and education.

In conclusion, we can say that neither on crime, education nor health do we see the favorable results we would have expected. Quite to the contrary. The prospects for being able to rely on government or family for social security are also rapidly diminishing. These are not very bright prospects indeed for a country where each working citizen are forced to sacrifice such a large share of his personal earnings to the common good.

One option for young people is to leave. It was recently proposed by one of the three economists from the Danish Economic Council that if young people in Denmark wish to move abroad after they have completed their education, they should first have to pay back the costs of their education. Only when they have paid enough taxes to cover all the expenses of their education, would they be able to move abroad without having to pay the government first.

Thus do we have proposed the social-democratic version of the Berlin Wall, an economic barrier to prevent emigration so that the state can continue to tax people to sustain a system that is unraveling. The mere suggestion is a telling sign that Denmark has nearly reached the end of the road.

Denmark: A Case Study in Social Democracy


D.


Edited by Diavolo (08/07/09 09:26 AM)

Top
#28062 - 08/07/09 09:57 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Diavolo]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Total crime victims:

Denmark 23%
USA 21.1%


Eh? So we are talking victims now, not crime? No, we are not, my statement was about crime.

Try the statistic on crime on the same page: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes

Or on murders: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders

Or on rape: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes

or on robberies: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rob-crime-robberies

Etc.

Yes, bikes are stolen in huge numbers in Denmark, and we are very good at calling the police, but I don't see how you read the statistic in a way that make the US look like it has less crime.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Denmark: A Case Study in Social Democracy


And that would be spamming the forum - unless you have some sort of special deal with the mods (trying to fit in I am, telling people about the rules and all).

Before I waste any time on it, could you please explain the source? I know Denmark is small, but I am afraid I don't know who Per Henrik Hansen is?

- Amina


Edited by Amina (08/07/09 09:59 AM)

Top
#28064 - 08/07/09 10:18 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
You made me laugh. Gosh the USA has more crime numbers than Denmark. Does population size ring a bell?

Per capita; what the fuck would that mean?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita

Maybe if you read the article and check whom the author is, you would get the information. So, it seems the welfare bubble you are promoting isn't seen as that divine by all. Care to show why he is wrong and why your domesticated approach is so much better?

Lemme guess; the nanny state pays you too?

D.

Top
#28067 - 08/07/09 11:17 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Diavolo]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Per capita; what the fuck would that mean?


Sorry, I was a bit fast with the links, I will give you that. But if you try looking at the same stats pr. capita you will find that the US is has a higher crime rate, at lest on serious crimes like rape, murder and robberies.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rob_percap-crime-robberies-per-capita

Yes, we have a problem with bikes being stolen, and we are very good at calling the police if something happens - at least that is the standard explanation given by police when faced with statistics. This aside, I will be willing to change my statement from "crimes" to "serious crimes" based on this data, if this makes you happy?

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Maybe if you read the article and check whom the author is, you would get the information.


Checking his name I see he is an expert on the history of banking and the history of danish furniture (yes, chairs and tables). I would be more impressed if it had been within his field of expertise, or if I knew what forum the article was published in. I think it sounds more like something he would present at a political right wing meeting then as something he would publish in a peer reviewed magazine on social history. But maybe I am wrong.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Lemme guess; the nanny state pays you too?


The danish state pays all students to study. But yes, I work too - like almost all other students.

- Amina


Edited by Amina (08/07/09 11:23 AM)

Top
#28068 - 08/07/09 11:32 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
One weird thing in the poll is that although the USA has more rape, the Danish have more rape victims, it makes me wonder if they didn't get what the intention of gangrape was. ;\)

The article is all over the web. They invented google because we didn't evolve into psychic beings. Seek and you shall find.

It doesn't matter really what the author does; he gives a view upon the Danish welfare state, which you seem to promote, and if he is so wrong, I don't doubt you will be able to provide evidence why. At this moment it only seems you are dodging the criticism. Feel free to slap me around the ears with data on why I should turn into a social creature and become a supporter of nanny-statism. I am awaiting your post that'll turn me into a true believer. Until then, we can quit debating the subject here.

Oh and to bring the thread back on track; did it taste like chicken?

D.

Top
#28072 - 08/07/09 12:24 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Amina Offline
member


Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 177
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
The Scandinavian student system is unlike the British and the American ones. In Norway (and most likely Denmark, too) [...]


Yes, the Norwegian and Danish systems are more or less the same, thank you for explaining it.

One could also add that so called welfare state in Norway, Denmark and Sweden are very similar - especial if your compare them to totally different systems like the American. What system you prefer depend on political views and local conditions. I personally would not want to live in the US for different reasons (including crime, poverty, religious views etc.)

This said, I think I have one final post to add to this topic (the original topic about insanity, that is):

I think cases like the one about the mother who ate her baby and the kid who killed his farther are interesting for several reasons. Those include psychological reasons (knowing about anomaly also shows you something about human nature), and reasons connected to how popular culture works, as when the media focus on the religious explanations or the nature of the delusions involved.

Discussions killing or not killing insane murderers is a moral question, and moral questions can be fun too - unless it boils down to a question about who is right and wrong. People can be wrong on the data they use to support there arguments (like data about statistics or prevention efforts, or diagnoses), but in the end moral values boils down to subjective values. As far as I can see all those who wanted to discuss the part of the subject I found interesting has left the discussion and it has turned into a discussion about the value of political systems and/or the size of ones dick. Funny as this could be, it is off topic and not something I guess we will ever agree on.

I will return to this discussion if it turns ontopic again. If not, have a ball attacking my personal views, hygiene, looks or what ever you decide to find worthwhile.

- Amina


Edited by Amina (08/07/09 12:27 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling

Top
#28073 - 08/07/09 12:50 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Again and again you and your dark Hillary Clinton seem to dodge the questions. Again and again I ask to back up what you are proclaiming and each time I read a lot of words and a "poor me" but no fundamental argument. Even your p(r)etty short explanation here shows nothing else but you desiring protection from the state. Which is... Le Sigh.

Ah well...

D.

Top
#28074 - 08/07/09 01:20 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Fuck's sake Anima; enough with the pissing contest already. This is 2 threads that I've seen where you're out to prove you or your country is more this, this and this. Bored now.

This is one reason why I don't post on here much.
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

Top
#28077 - 08/07/09 02:09 PM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
Arguing with you reminds me of arguing with a small child. They can't back up their arguments with facts either, and if they fail to recognize logic when it stares them in the face, I quickly become annoyed.

 Quote:
Discussions killing or not killing insane murderers is a moral question


No, it's not a moral question at all. You are trying to turn it into a moral argument because that is the only way that you can bring in all your unrelated pseudo-logic, but essentially, it is not a question of morality at all, it is a question of what will most benefit the group. That has more to do with *gasp* eugenics and attempts at a logical decision based on probability than anything else.

**You argue that loonies should be allowed to survive because sometimes they can be medicated into holdind down a job.
**You argue that this is a fraction of the population.
**You argue that Denmark needs the warm bodies and go further to say that the quality of births is less important than the quantitiy of births.
**You argue that an axe-wielding psycho is less of a danger than a liquor store.
**You argue that free will is a pipe dream and we are all bound by some type of uncontrollable force in our heads that makes us do...whatever...and we are not responsible for our own thoughts.
**You try to say that mental illness can be cured. Show me a schizo who has been "cured" instead of just doped into submission.

And you interchange, bring in new and unrelated bits of information, and whatever you can do to avoid actually defending your leftist bullshit ideas. You have yet to actually address something that someone else has put forward withouth throwing in something like, "well what if it wasn't that and was this?" The topic at hand doesn't have shit to do with drugs. It has to do with people who are so crazy that they pose a physical threat to ANYONE around them.

If you have ten thousand people and two of them are a danger to society, tell me what damage it's going to do to the economy if they are removed from the population.

If you want to talk about economics, it makes more sense to remove them from the population than to support them in an asylum for the rest of their life. Aside from the cost of feeding them, etc. There is the cost of employing security guards and whatnot. You think it's cheap for your taxes to pay for a million prozac prescriptions and everything else that is involved in setting the mentally ill straight? Get real.

18 year olds as investments: You know what? Sometimes you make a bad investment and have to cut your losses. A friend of mine spent thousands of dollars putting his kid through technical school, paying his living while he was going to school, and helping him get a rather envious job in that field only to see his kid lose it all by getting strung out on drugs. You know what? He cut his losses. There comes a time when the nipple must come out of the mouth. No coddling. No "poor baby"-ing. Here's your foundation for productivity and if you can't hack it then it's your problem, not the rest of the world's.

You act like Europe is so fabulous...a land where you often cannot criticize your government or religion. Where muslims invade your country and start calling the shots. A place where you give up half of your income to pay taxes to subsidize programs for those who are unwilling to be as productive as you are. Free medical and free education seems great on the surface, but when you consider the impact it has on the overall quality of the citizen it churns out, giving a free liver to an alcoholic and a degree to a raving lunatic does nothing but cheapen the liver given to the pious housewife or the degree given to the student with dreams of improving the world around him.

We have to fight and compete, we don't get free rides. We are not born to think that simply because we exist we are just as good and worthy as everyone else.

Back on topic: People who are a danger to society should be removed from society in the most efficient way possible, whatever that way might be. If the danger is simply that their breeding is incapable of producing something that can stand on it's own, then they should not breed.

I would rather the older population leave us with only half of what we started with than have a bunch of loonies and physically incapables running around. What is the point in maintaining the population when you are injecting it with more and more mediocrity with every generation? Selective breeding should be the first thought of the responsible adult and should be the overall concern of society because indiscriminate breeding is what is going to lower the quality of the citizenry overall.

Quality should always take precedence over quantity.

I am finished debating with you. It makes me feel like a playground bully, pushing the smaller and weaker around.

Top
#28124 - 08/08/09 03:12 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Amina]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119

 Quote:
If we ignore the part about your offer being in the line of some kind of silly threatening statement, what IS your point? If you believe the US has less crime then Denmark, be my guest. But if you come up with some statistic to prove it, you would really surprise me. But hey - go google baby!

Not really a threatening, only a method to bring you ignorant flooting feet back to the ground. As D pointed out, US has more citizens and as I also pointed out: economical heavyweight.
If you are so-well educated as you and your baldy claim to be, you should have known that statistics barely hold truth and ALWAYS can be adjusted in such a way that the results fit.

 Quote:

Yes, it IS "hard to get". Issues like this is about morality, political views and arguments based on more or less relevant data. There is not an objectively right answer, only subjective ones - unless you think God or other sources of objective morality is involved.

Made me frown... are you really a Satanist or just a bad wiccan?
Morality my ass, most morals are based on feelings of MISPLACED guilt. I don't work with false morals or feelings. I only have standards and facts which work pretty decently and without any failure. It is thanks to people like you that fucked-up people are roaming free. It is thanks to people like you that society in a whole is numbing down. There only is progression in technology but when it comes to mental and physical level almost everyone is "weakening".

 Quote:

Everybody have some sort of malfunctioning or irregularity. If we only include those who get diagnosed with a mental problem that would be 1/6 of the population or so. Wow, and I worried abut the birthrate dropping!

Google a bit more about culling, standards are a keyword here.

 Quote:
If we believe genes and upbringing makes a difference (or memes now we are at it), the belief in a totally free will has to suffer the consequence. Beliving everyone else are slaves of those things, and that you a unique and above all this is an illusion at best. Man is just another animal.

Why are you evading the question about "free will" and start about herd mentality by saying the obvious? Free will means speaking your mind, having a will of your own, making choices of your own and so on..
Did "father" prohibit you to talk about it?
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#28137 - 08/08/09 11:27 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: Dimitri]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Oh, dear....

I wade into this nonsense with some trepidation but I feel that given the level of bad information I must lead the congregation into the light.

Look, America is an impossible place to 'civilize' by European standards. We were founded by all of the malcontents of Europe. Wave after wave of pissed off people have come to America's great melting pot and added to the national character. We came to this country, killed or displaced it's original inhabitants, overthrew the govt of King George in a series of wars, and fought the bloodies war in our history amongst ourselves! In just over 200 years we have fought more major military actions than any other nation in the Western World.

James Webb covers this to some degree in his book "Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America." America has a naturally combative nature. Our most popular sports today are NFL Football and MMA. Ever watch MMA? That is America! We own guns, LOTS of guns. Our two favorite drugs are cheap beer and methamphetamine.

Now we are facing a new wave of Third World immigration. And so to, an increasing number of Third Worldisms will influence our culture.

It is simple population dynamics. We have a naturally violent culture that has reached it's carrying capacity. Every species has a mechanism to survive this event. When mankind reaches it's carrying capacity the results are usually war, plague and famine. Infanticide is nothing more than a hard wired response to environmental taxis. Some people choose a medical abortion, and evidently, some people prefer the direct approach.

In Howard Bloom's excellent book "The Lucifer Principle" he covers this dynamic in depth. Our genes have us hard wired to propagate 'our' kind. Evolution does not care if a few individuals die, only that the greater genome survives. As individuals we like to think how much power we have over ourselves, but, in the end, Freud was right - it really is all about sex and death.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
#28333 - 08/12/09 07:37 AM Re: Why a Texas woman mutilated and ate her baby [Re: The Zebu]
jthorum666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 22
Loc: SATANtonio, TX
This actually happened about four blocks from my house. The woman was suffering from post-partem depression, which resulted in hallucinations. A week before, her husband left her. The sister of the woman, took care of the newborn, until her sister was ready to care for her. She was returned to the mother the day prior to the savage act. A sad, sick end to a life that had just started.
_________________________
"To thine own self be true." William Shakespear

Top
Page all of 4 1234>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.072 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 65 queries. Zlib compression disabled.