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#28304 - 08/11/09 06:23 PM Inequality among Satanists
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
Sure, you either are a Satanist or you're not, but isn't there always inequality?

Do you think some people are better Satanists than others? Maybe one person is better at using their powers of manipulation to get what they want. Maybe a 30 year-old Satanist is much stronger, wiser, and more skillful than a 10 year-old Satanist. The older members here have given some knowledge that the younger members can use to improve themselves.

If someone can be a better Satanist than someone else, would that be the same as saying someone can be more Satanic than someone else?


Edited by coelentrate (08/11/09 06:27 PM)

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#28305 - 08/11/09 06:31 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: coelentrate]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I think it is quite obvious that some people not only better understand, but also better apply the Satanic philosophy.
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No gods. No masters.

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#28307 - 08/11/09 07:21 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: coelentrate]
Domonic Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Edgewood New Mex
Yes, better with age. Probable. These days kids are realizing at an early age as their surroundings suggest. The psyche capability of one is not to be underestimeted, not matter how the age. A good dabate topic. I neither agree nor diss-agree.
_________________________
Liber III vel Jugorum- " To understand initiation, you must understand yourself."

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#28309 - 08/11/09 08:59 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Domonic]
jesusbeater Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Ireland
A better Satanist? How would you measure such a thing and against what would you compare it? A CoS member may say that either Gilmore or LaVey are the ideal while other groups may say that either one is an idiot or nowhere near what their ideal of a Satanist is.
Any inequality that exists , I believe doesn't necessarily relate to quantifing how good a Satanist one is.I think it bolis down to intelligence , actions and how one interacts with others.Of course all these things make a good Satanist, in my opinion.
As long as one is happy with ones self and is always striving towards improving their own life in what ever way possible, I believe this is the makings of what I would see as a good Satanist.Of course the beauty of Satanism is that as its all about individuality, every one will have their own ideal and will look down their pointy , perfect satanic noses at every one else.
My ideal of Satanism is of course Skeletor....I Love him.
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crabpeople...crabpeople

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#28312 - 08/11/09 09:14 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: jesusbeater]
Domonic Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Edgewood New Mex
HAIL SKELETOR!!!
( sorry for the one liner, had to do it.)
_________________________
Liber III vel Jugorum- " To understand initiation, you must understand yourself."

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#28313 - 08/11/09 09:26 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Domonic]
jesusbeater Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Ireland
Yeah sorry about this too, don't mean to go off topic but can't resist it.
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crabpeople...crabpeople

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#28317 - 08/11/09 10:38 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: coelentrate]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Honestly this sounds like a question put forth by someone who has doubt from been told simply that they are not. Of course if this bothers you or shakes your cage very much then perhaps they were right.

Other than that… Some humans are better with numbers as some like myself work better with patterns. Some have interest in things that we may never have an answer for like how the universe works while others think such thinking a waste of time. The human animal has quite a few flavors many tasty ones as well as many that are just bad. So as long as life continues in the same steps, there will always be inequality amongst all living things.

Contrary to what our parents taught, we are not special only different. As different as any other living being. Nothing more nothing less. All the same because we are all so very different is true human equality.

 Originally Posted By: coelentrate
If someone can be a better Satanist than someone else, would that be the same as saying someone can be more Satanic than someone else?

This only matters if you are saving Satan points in your coupon book to be redeemed at a later date. The little red rubber Satan suit is so expensive.

~T~

Hail Skeletor, 9-11 cartoons and one-liners? Get a grip people just don't hit submit.
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#28328 - 08/12/09 04:13 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: ta2zz]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
I'm not talking about quantitative differences. Saying that something is more, is not saying that something is seven more. It could be done if someone really wanted to, but it wouldn't be useful.

I ask because I think I see Satanic traits in people that are otherwise not Satanists. I think there are christians who have got a little bit of Satan in them, more so than the other little christians around them. I also see differences between Satanists. I think one is sometimes better at it than another.

I was wondering what people thought of that. I was wondering what has been made of it before.

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#28352 - 08/12/09 02:31 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: coelentrate]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1722
Loc: New York
Yes, I believe that some people are better Satanists then others.

I know, that there are definitely better Satanists then I am, because often times, I find myself falling short of what I believe a truly evolved, “Self Actualized” Satanist is.

Ultimately, the degree to how advanced a Satanist is, is left to each persons own discretion. We can only judge others, up to a point, using our standards of measurement.

For example, many of us can speculate by listening to people, or reading their posts, as to how far that person has advanced in the knowledge and ideas of Satanism. Some of that judgement is Subjective, where we use OUR standard of measurement, and some is objective, where we can weigh their ideas against other Satanists who have proven their value as Satanists, by their contributions to the Satanic community. But even that is Subjective to a point.

I am my own, harshest critic. I use (as best as I am able to) an objective view, when measuring my success, and I try hard to check my ego at the door.

I’m very comfortable, with my philosophical knowledge of Satanism. I know, believe in, and can apply most of the tenets.

What I have a problem with, is being able to reach the tangible, real life pillar of success, that I believe a Satanist, would have to have, in order to be “Self Actualized,” or in other words, truly Satanic.
Some of these tangible things, are financial independence, where one does not need to follow the rules of a boss or institution to make ones living. This means either being self employed, or wealthy from what ever source.
Being in a position in life, where the open expression of ones political, political incorrect, religous, or what ever ideals, cannot affect their quality of life, because of judgement by others.


Therefore, I would consider anyone who has attained the above, while also following the basic tenets of Satanism, a “Better Satanist,” then I.
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"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#28374 - 08/12/09 07:06 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Asmedious]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Ah, but meeting a set goal is often times not the purpose, instead the journey there is what we benefit from the most. People that reach their goals of self-actualization oftentimes set their sights within easy reach. Instead, one should view one's life as a series of milemarkers, always moving forward, (with an occasional rest stop on the way), and each time a marker is reached, to start setting their sights on the next one. Then the next, and so on. To stay in one place too long and "just settle" is to become stagnant.

I am far from where and who I want to be, but when I pause to look back, I see how far I've come, and can appreciate what it took to bring me to where I am today. Personal reflection and evolution, lessons learned (often the hard way) and the like, have shaped me into my current state. Who knows what I'll be in 6 months, or 6 years? But I'm certainly not going to model myself after an ideal of who I THINK I should be, or even worse, who OTHERS think I should be, instead just prune and trim where I think I need it, and see what I end up as. As Popeye said, "I yam what I yam!"

I'm liking myself more and more as I age. ;\)

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Nothing is sacred.

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#28381 - 08/12/09 11:20 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: coelentrate]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
My wife would fit that bill. I think some of my traits have rubbed off on her more and more over the years.

When we first met and married, I was already on my path of Satanism. She was raised in a Latino family in which Catholicism played a large role. She is a devout Catholic. After we were married, we never attended a church service unless a wedding or funeral was involved. She doesn't take time out to pray (that I am aware of). Yet I have noticed traits associated with a Satanist. She won't pick up the Satanic Bible though. I guess it's still a little to hard for her totally break away from the shackles of her upbringing. She will shoot me a nasty look when I say something like Jesus Fucking Christ. However, I bet if she took the time to actually read through TSB, some of it would make sense.

She has attended events with my local Satanist group, and never had a bad word or spat with any of them. In fact, she actually likes them. She has no complaints with the imagery I have chosen to display in the house. She is aware that I had a Satanic Baptism performed on me several years back. She would probably kick some of our asses around on here were she to join. I think it has to with the stigma of the name itself. If we called it Fluffy Bunnyism, yet kept all the ideals in place, she would probably be on board.
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#28405 - 08/13/09 04:26 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: coelentrate]
jthorum666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 22
Loc: SATANtonio, TX
 Originally Posted By: coelentrate

I see Satanic traits in people that are otherwise not Satanists. I think there are christians who have got a little bit of Satan in them, more so than the other little christians around them.


I believe we are all Satanic from birth. Our human nature tell us to self-preserve from the time we exit the womb. It is through religious dogma, and societal standards, that we become creatures of conformity. Before religion, what did humans use as a guideline to life? Their instinct of survival. Human beings are beasts, the same as those who walk around us. The only difference being our consciece. And with this conscience come the ability to be corrupted. So yes, I can see how satanic traits can be seen in people not considerd to be Satanists. Being satanic does not necassarily mean you are a Satanist, either. It is through the physical application of Satanic priciple and practice, that one becomes a Satanist.
On the subject of there being "better" Satanists than others; naturally you are going to find people who are more well versed and studied in the priciples of Satanism. And these people,have a better means of applying Satanic practice to their daily lives. More so than someone who just read The Satanic Bible and a few things on Wikipedia, and claims to be a satanist, with no real application of the principles. Would I say "better" Satanist, not sure..I think more reliable is a good way to put it.
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"To thine own self be true." William Shakespear

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#28406 - 08/13/09 04:34 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: jthorum666]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I believe Satanists are born not made.

If everyone was born the same then, one of my sisters would not be a flaming zelot born again christian, and the other would not be a token catholic. Both would be Satanists.

Various situations may make traits in a person come more to the front in situations of survival or just daily living. So that a person may not know of "Satanism" but have satanic traits.

Usually, the Satanists who claim to be born can tell the difference between those with a clue/black flame and those hopelessly wandering around in the dark.

There is no equality in Satanism. There are Satanists, and there is food, the herds of sheep.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#28409 - 08/13/09 04:43 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: fakepropht]
jthorum666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/10/09
Posts: 22
Loc: SATANtonio, TX
 Originally Posted By: fakepropht
If we called it Fluffy Bunnyism, yet kept all the ideals in place, she would probably be on board.


With a name like that, how could you not be on board. My wife was of the Southern Baptist faith when I met her. Sheltered from any type of taboo, or rebel-rousing, I believe it was my blasphemy that drew her to me. I eventually got her to read Dr. LaVey's writings, and gradually she shifted to the "dark side". We are planning a Satanic wedding sometime next year, and raise our son in a Satanic fashion. Her family is suprisingly okay with it all, as we are both steadfast in our ways, and treat noone (that does not deserve it) with disrespect. We are Satanists, not demons.
_________________________
"To thine own self be true." William Shakespear

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#28963 - 08/27/09 09:48 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: jthorum666]
godam666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 23
Loc: indiana
Perception and descrimination. The main thing's that are naturaly put into your thought process. perception, based on personality, morals/beliefs, mood and a hell of alot more things. (the most important part of your thought process)(ofcourse). Better could be worse to someone else, but that just depends on just where they stand. Let me remind you, you are a satanist (probally if your reading this). That means alot at nomatter where you sit or stand. We are different, we are the elite. We took the path not many have dared to walk before, we are a revolution.
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I am God

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#28995 - 08/28/09 11:27 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: godam666]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
I noticed your posting spree this morning, and I also noticed your choice of the word, "elite".

If you want to be elite around here, practice better keyboarding, spelling and grammar skills. Expand your posts so that you have some meat to what you are saying. And learn the difference between "they're", "their" and "there".

Your posts read like stream-of-consciousness ravings. It's a tad annoying to the average, unsuspecting reader. It's extremely annoying to people like me, who are aware of and practice these rules of the English language.

Care to take a bit of pride? We have people here with English as a second language who compose better replies than yours. If you're pinched for time, save the reply until later. We do so much enjoy reading something that is worth reading, and throwing out an opinion that has ten thousand grammatical errors and lacks backup - whether it be via stated logical facts or personal anecdotes - is a step in the wrong direction, fo sho.

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#28998 - 08/28/09 12:44 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: ceruleansteel]
godam666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 23
Loc: indiana

I don't want to be "elite", nor to I strive to be "elite". My perception is all that I offer any of you. I don't care for opinions either unless thery're of some significant value. Apparently you didn't read what I wrote, because they are not just opinions, but general psychology. People tend to overlook the basics. Remember your foundation. Because with out them no matter how much you build afterwards doses not determine that it stands, or crumbles to the floor.

I just offered a different perception and view on this topic. If you do not see the point I made, or see any value in it is your opinion and no one can take that away from you. However opinion does not decide truth, or even a slight variation of it. It is just a represtative of everything I said before this post. You know the one you decided to just comment on the spelling and leave no actual scholastic value in return. If I'm not mistaken this site is about knowledge and philosophy.

I don't mind criticism, but isn't your simplistic reply just as you reply to others as "mucking up" a forum. Grammarcial errors do not decide intelligence, or value. They do however express that the person were either in a hurry, they were tired (which is my case most of the time) or they just don't care. Thanks for the criticism, but if you do offer it atleast offer more than mere common sense.

Again thanks for you time everyone.



Edited by godam666 (08/28/09 12:52 PM)
Edit Reason: removing quote
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#29000 - 08/28/09 01:00 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: godam666]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
From your post, that I replied to:

 Quote:
Perception and descrimination. The main thing's that are naturaly put into your thought process. perception, based on personality, morals/beliefs, mood and a hell of alot more things. (the most important part of your thought process)(ofcourse). Better could be worse to someone else, but that just depends on just where they stand. Let me remind you, you are a satanist (probally if your reading this). That means alot at nomatter where you sit or stand. We are different, we are the elite. We took the path not many have dared to walk before, we are a revolution.


So I take it that you are NOT a Satanist? Because here you insinuate that a Satanist IS elite, and takes pride, etc., etc.

And for the record, it's damned near impossible to read what you write because the shit that spews forth from your keyboard barely makes any sense. Your spelling is shit, you leave words out or add in words that appear to come from your own personal dictionary, and your punctuation makes me want to slam my face into an auger. Your perception is worthless if other people can't figure out what the fuck it is.

Fuck this. I'm not going to fuck up OP's rig with what appears to be an argument that you desperately need to lose. Take this up with me on the thread I just posted, so I can whip your ass without derailing other people's hard work and effort.

And if a mod would be so kind as to move these posts, I would definitely think of them whilst in the shower.

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#29001 - 08/28/09 01:09 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: godam666]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3109
For starters, to come across as an intelligent person you should act, behave and write as one. In your first reply, you were talking about "we are the elite". In the case you consider yourself as an elitist: act like one if you have the skills.
This is an online board read by many, if you want your credibility not being criticized then you better learn/start writing a bit decently. If you make claims: back them up( or at least have the ability to do so..), when you write something: proper, decent sentences and paragraphs, also it is best to avoid "slang" language since this is an international forum and most members who aren't English will not understand what you are saying (maybe a few exceptions but that's about it).

There are enough online programs who will take out most grammar mistakes.

 Quote:
I don't want to be "elite", nor to I strive to be "elite".

So you are just admitting you are nothing more then a black sheep?

 Quote:
I don't mind criticism, but isn't your simplistic reply just as you reply to others as "mucking up" a forum. Grammarcial errors do not decide intelligence, or value.

You don't mind it, yet start whining when received... tell me you are lying? Grammatical errors DO decide intelligence. Lacking the ability to write a decent sentence let's your credibility decline in free fall, even so it is a sign to almost any person on the world you aren't as smart as you try to be.

 Quote:
They do however express that the person were either in a hurry, they were tired (which is my case most of the time) or they just don't care.

If you are in a hurry, then you shouldn't make posts on the Internet.
"Hey 5 minutes before I get to work.. I'll quickly make another post even tough it will be full of grammar mistakes".
The topics or this board isn't going to walk away... it will still be on the same spot in cyberspace between now and next week..

You should be very ashamed, my 3rd language is English and my grammar is even better then yours.. better then a native speaker for fucks sake.


Edited by Dimitri (08/28/09 01:33 PM)
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#29002 - 08/28/09 01:25 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: ceruleansteel]
godam666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 23
Loc: indiana
Funny how you talk about grammar, but you are guilty of the same for which you acusse me of. I will not consider myself the same as you, because we value different things. I am satanic, but by nature. I do not strive to be "more satanic" than anyone else, because that would be self defeating in many aspects.

Just because you cannot make any sense of it does not consitute, or validate it. Maybe you could use a good slamming of you head into something very hard. If you cannot figure out what was simply said than you just ponit out sheer ignorance and or understanding.

This is actually not messing up this topic at all. It is actually a good example of why people think that there are inequalities among satanist. Perception as I stated before is the reason of this. You cannot validate that anyone is more, or less of anything with out a basis to start off of. The inconsistency of it makes it invalid, except to the people that share the same view in that aspect, but will also disagree with something.
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I am God

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#29004 - 08/28/09 01:51 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: godam666]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
You aren't Satanic. You stated earlier two points:

1. Satanists are elite.
2. You do not want to be elite.

Therefore you are NOT Satanic - and don't want to be, by your very own logic. And if you were indeed Satanic "by nature", you would naturally have the desire to post in such a way that you appeared to have at least one-tenth of a brain. So that you could appear "Satanic", i.e., "elite".

Oh, but you don't want to be elite. Or do you? You talk in circles of bullshit and it doesn't take a nine year old to see it. I noticed that you have started separating your paragraphs. Sadly for you, that just proves the "validity" of what I said to you regarding your posts. It also better illustrates how your posts "constitute" complete stupidity.

And if you can find where I ramble on incoherently in a post that is barely readable and full of spelling and grammatical errors, I will publicly apologize and concede. Good luck with that, though. Half the time I post, I've already made it halfway through a good bottle of bourbon and I STILL make sense. Too tired to do it right? Then go to fuckin' bed and don't post. There is simply no excuse for being a douche or an idiot.

I'm glad that you do not consider yourself the same as me. That would be offensive to me.

 Quote:
Just because you cannot make any sense of it does not consitute, or validate it.


What the fuck does that even mean? According to the rules of grammar and sentence structure, you are saying that just because I cannot make sense of your posts does not "constitute or validate" your posts. Do you even know the definition of the words you are typing? Did you drop out of school in the second grade so you could hone your Satan-skills? Oh, "your kind" call them "satin-skills", don't you?

 Quote:
Maybe you could use a good slamming of you head into something very hard.


Once again, you use the wrong word, and everyone on the board laughs at you because they know what went through my mind when I read this little literary gem. I almost didn't even see the word, "head".

 Quote:
If you cannot figure out what was simply said than you just ponit out sheer ignorance and or understanding.


I read, speak, and type in English. Whatever fucking language you do those things in is not compatible.

Stop posting. You are an idiot. And if you still choose to reply to me, use a fucking dictionary. You use words improperly and that just further underscores the fact that I am right and you are a tool.


Edited by ceruleansteel (08/28/09 01:53 PM)

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#29009 - 08/28/09 09:08 PM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: godam666]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
In regard to the question at hand, a simple point of order:

When was it ever said that a Satanist BELIEVES in equality?

"All men are created equal," isn't a Satanic ideal, other than for the idea that all men are born into life pretty much the same way, take a first breath and then all bets are off. From that point on, very, very little can be seen as equitable.

Some men rise to greatness, taking opportunities as they present themselves, or capitalizing on what has gone before them, finding a new way to present it and "market it," making it, and himself, more valuable to the life into which he has been place.

Some men fail. They simply fail. They sell themselves into servitude and into subordination based on their lack of ambition, their mental acuity, their addictions, their self-doubts. They become poster children for the "born loser."

And in between, there is a wide range of possibilities for where a person is going to find themselves in representing individuality within the human condition. The lightbulb analogy works... not everyone is a 100 Watt person. There are 75 Watters, down to those silly little 5 Watt bulbs we all know are deficient, but are too polite to point at and laugh.

Whether one is BETTER than another is a moot point. They shine with the wattage they need to fulfill the position they hold. And within each strata, you'll find some better and some worse at what they do... the best or the worst and the worst of the best are on the same sliding scale of value. Equality seems more myth than fact."

For example, we know that "every man and woman has value," and that "life is precious." Ok. So, while I hate to go into the mental masturbation of philosophical what ifs... two men standing on a street corner and a car MUST hit and kill one. Do you take out the bum, begging, with a sign that says, "Lost hope. Please give me your spare change," or do you take out the heart surgeon who just happens to be crossing at the light?

Now, resist your urge to show how much you can split hairs with the bullshit arguments... well, maybe the bum will be a tycoon one day and the heart surgeon will save the next Hitler. That's for people who simply don't want to do the real work. Choose. Which has more intrinsic value to society... which would be the superior choice and which would be the inferior?

Certainly there are people who are more "valuable" to society and within each stratification of society than others. Are they "better?" One could demonstrate that they are, although the term "better" could be better stated as "more well equipped to handle their relative position. This could be due to better education, better life circumstances or even better "luck" than the next gut. But between any two people, there is always going to be an inequity SOMEWHERE... might be insignificant or it might be highly significant. But total equality, if not mythic, might be as rare as "hen's teeth."
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29011 - 08/29/09 01:23 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Jake999]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Denver, CO USA
 Quote:
Whether one is BETTER than another is a moot point

Interesting how you posit this then refute it with numerous examples that indicate an invalidation of your own point. Like:

 Quote:
Are they "better?" One could demonstrate that they are

You just wrote that the aforementioned point was moot, yet you go on to state the necessity of demonstrating that this isn't the case. Nice reversal...

Or my favorite:
 Quote:
there is a wide range of possibilities for where a person is going to find themselves in representing individuality within the human condition


What does this even mean? Are you studying enigmatic conundrums?
How does this even begin to add to the relevance of your post?

Beyond cryptic irrelevance, we as humans 'are' individuals, the fact that 'a wide range of possibilities' contributes to the expression of that individuality can neither be measured, or explained.

Individual will ultimately designs the patterns of our lives, not possibilities, not random chance or situational frivolity.
Will alone precludes blind acceptance to one's station, and enables the individual to either excel or fail within the confines of modern society.

Inequality is CAUSED by the differences in weak and strong willed individuals. Whether or not Satanists believe in equality is irrelevant. What matters is the intensity of will inherent to the individual. And how that will is expressed.







Edited by Azathoth68 (08/29/09 01:42 AM)

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#29013 - 08/29/09 02:20 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Azathoth68]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
THINK before you speak...

The point is that it doesn't matter whether the person is a 50 Watt individual or a 100 Watt individual... within their own minds, they are functioning at full efficiency, hence,

"They shine with the wattage they need to fulfill the position they hold. And within each strata, you'll find some better and some worse at what they do... the best or the worst and the worst of the best are on the same sliding scale of value. Equality seems more myth than fact."

The point of better is therefore moot, because there can be no meeting of the minds on a consensus on what would be "BETTER." Simply looking at two 75 Watt light bulbs means nothing because there is no comparable difference. Individuals on a level with each other see themselves from an egocentric vantage point. They feel that they are the best that they can be and deserving of the respect that they feel they should be due, regardless of their station in life. The expert tatooist looks down on the scratcher, just as surely as Einstein looked down on the lab tech... but the scratcher sees himself as qualified and the lab tech likewise thinks of himself and highly evolved in comparison to others. And of course, within the individual stratifications of people of all walks of life, there will be distinctions, such as, Sam can type, Jim can't... they're both level 1 diagnosticians, but the skill sam possesses is an enhancement to his worth as a level 1 diagnostician.

Leading to," Are they "better?" One could demonstrate that they are,"

You can't just read the part of the package that you want to fit your point. The rest of the paragraph states, " although the term "better" could be better stated as "more well equipped to handle their relative position. This could be due to better education, better life circumstances or even better "luck" than the next gut. But between any two people, there is always going to be an inequity SOMEWHERE... might be insignificant or it might be highly significant. But total equality, if not mythic, might be as rare as "hen's teeth."

This of course brings in a way to quantify the worth of an individual with an observable metric when compared to others, i.e., greater education, wider range of experience, and perhaps the ability to read and understand a complex sentence when presented. In this scenario, by applying the alternative and more concise application of the term "BETTER," one COULD indeed make such a determination.

To simplify things even further, Jim and John were both electricians, and that was all that was known about them, a determination of which one is better has no meaning because there is no metric by which to form an informed decision, so the point of which of them is better is moot. However, if one applies a metric that allows comparison on a meaningful level, direct and quantifiable comparisons can indeed be made. "Jim and John are both electricians. John has 100 hours of training, whereas Jim has 10. John has 2000 hours of experience where Jim has 100, there fore one could assume that John would be the better electrician.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29014 - 08/29/09 02:40 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Jake999]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Denver, CO USA
 Quote:
You can't just read the part of the package that you want to fit your point.

You're wrong there, you posited one statement then refuted your own point later in your argument. Are you denying this? If you do, I suggest you re-read that post, then you'll be able to examine the points that you're using to elucidate your argument that are self-canceling.

As far as comparing the relative societal worth of persons of differential 'wattage', the analogy is apt, but what does it really have to do with relative equality when both described parties are functioning at their own maximum potentials?

At the very least, I find your argument confusing. And as far as the THINK before you speak, I'd suggest you think before you write such statements as:

 Quote:
And in between, there is a wide range of possibilities for where a person is going to find themselves in representing individuality within the human condition


So the middle of the bell-curve involves an unexplained pseudo-quasi variable that neither bolsters your point or seeks to logically defer your argument to a rational conclusion?

I read your last post, more than once, and sought to glean some semblance of a coherent argument from it, and failed. Perhaps I'm missing something in the text that could be more easier explained over a beer.

If I'm wrong, please prove yourself right.


Edited by Azathoth68 (08/29/09 02:43 AM)

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#29015 - 08/29/09 02:53 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Azathoth68]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3109
Azathoth.. just shut up, reread jakes post after a period of time and you'll see it makes sense.
As said before, don't "pick what you like". That kind of attitude is only good for religionists and is bad when used in discussions.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#29017 - 08/29/09 03:05 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Dimitri]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Denver, CO USA
"Good for religionists...", Oh, I'm sorry, I thought I was merely pointing out that I found it hard to follow on argument based upon self-canceling points that did not rationally follow to an acceptable conclusion. Perhaps you would be so kind as to prove my counter wrong. Believe me, when I hear a point made that will alter my opinion of what I've read and that will enable me to understand the points made more effectively, I'll be the first to jump on the wagon and start whistling a different tune.
Until then, why should I reread something I've already perused several times, and then come to a different conclusion 'after a period of time'? "Bad when used in discussions?", well said by someone who begins a post by telling someone to shut up. Don't worry though, I've read many of your arguments, and I'm sure they've directly contributed to your 'non-blue' status.


Edited by Azathoth68 (08/29/09 03:09 AM)

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#29018 - 08/29/09 03:13 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Azathoth68]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Sorry... I don't see any need to PROVE myself to you. You lost all credibility with me the night in chat where you played silly ass games and made a fool out of yourself.

But to answer "And in between, there is a wide range of possibilities for where a person is going to find themselves in representing individuality within the human condition." OF COURSE they are. You can't be so obtuse to believe that people can't show individuality while still being representative of a "category" of people. Perhaps YOU can't... I can... I do. So does every other person that I know. A bank teller who is a stodgy conservative by day, but cuts loose at night as an exotic dancer... a skinflint who steadfastly supports the rights of the homeless... it's all part of man's dichotomous nature.

If you're looking to argue with people, you've come to the wrong door. I don't do that or respect people who have nothing better to do than to argue forever on the internet. Winning an argument on the internet is like winning a ribbon in the Special Olympics. Sure you won. But you're still retarded.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29019 - 08/29/09 03:17 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Jake999]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
As an aside, Dimitri's "non blue" status is far from unique. There are many non-blues, yourself included. It's neither a condemnation of his posts and abilities, nor is it something you should concern yourself with, since the decision on the awarding of Familiar status has nothing to do with you or your opinion of other members.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29020 - 08/29/09 03:48 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Jake999]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Denver, CO USA
Sorry, I automatically disregard any statements that begin with 'shut up' when they're used as a rebuttal to a rational argument. Perhaps I should have replied with a 'yo-momma' joke to descend to an acceptable level in reply.
As far as my credibility matters where you are concerned, I could not possibly care less. I have no delusions about my worth in this life, or the next, if there is one, so beginning a rebuttal by stating how I've lost credibility with you has no bearing upon whether or not I'm going to call you to task when I think you're wrong. I'll admit I was mischievous that night, but Hell, I'd had a few. \:o
And concerning 'coming to the wrong door' if I want to argue a logical fallacy, isn't that part of the reason that people even get involved with this board? To debate ideas and provide rational critiques when they feel that they've perceived error, and using their own intellect to argue their own point of view?
I give respect where respect is due...You have a lot of history in the occult community, and I definitely respect that. However, credibility lost by a buzzed fool matters less than credibility lost by a banal point of view.

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#29022 - 08/29/09 04:21 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Azathoth68]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Denver, CO USA
 Quote:
Sure you won. But you're still retarded.


That must really burn, BTW, to lose an argument to a 'retarded' person. And it wasn't even really an argument...We retarded people are incapable of presenting our ideas in a rational manner that could be considered intelligible within the framework of any discourse that could be considered as being pragmatic.

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#29023 - 08/29/09 04:21 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Azathoth68]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Banal??? LOL! Give me a major fucking break!

Have you actually READ the things that you have posted in your history here? They're there for anyone who wants a trip down memory lane simply by looking on your profile. Talking a bout banal...

When not toadying up to Dr. Aquino, your posting has all of the erudition of a eighth grade dropout. As for being a "buzzed fool," I suppose it's a wise man who knows himself. I'll opt for the occasional botched post over being unable to control myself any day.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29024 - 08/29/09 04:33 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Jake999]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Denver, CO USA
Well I've seen your history too, and when you aren't throwing anecdotes around about how you were LaVey's henchman, and I think you even mentioned 'norelco-ing' his head, you manage to reprimand just about anyone for anything. I'll admit I respect the Hell out of Aquino, at least he got out of the CoS before it became a joke. \:D
Eighth-grade dropout? Now you're just getting nasty. Well, this 'eighth-grade' dropout can still whip your ass when it comes to forming a defensible argument...Your lame personal attacks are hilarious! And you call other people trolls. You should take a peek out from under that bridge you're living under and become more introspective.


Edited by Azathoth68 (08/29/09 05:03 AM)

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#29026 - 08/29/09 04:41 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Azathoth68]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Sure did. I shaved his head and I broke bread with him as some damned fine restaurants. Done a hell of a lot on my own as well, completing two careers and retiring before the age of 53. Graduated college with 3.85 GPA, and not once have I ever felt the need to make a fool out of myself in chat or online... you're up one on me there. Congratulations.

I'm impressed. I really am. Damn...
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29027 - 08/29/09 04:52 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Jake999]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Denver, CO USA
You really are vindictive when it comes to someone actually challenging you on your 'home' ground, aren't you. Cant bear to lose face, how typically unoriginal. You must have vast reserves of 'macho' energy...I'm the one that is impressed. I underestimated your considerable resolve in the face of adversity.
Ask yourself though: Who is more foolish? The fool? Or the fool that replies to his posts.

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#29029 - 08/29/09 05:04 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
LOL! Face is something I can bear to lose. I've been wrong before and probably will be a gain, assuming I live for a while.

Suffering fools is something I don't do lightly.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29030 - 08/29/09 05:11 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
In general:

Its simple and this is getting out of hand.

People are stupid.
Some people are more stupid than others.

Stupidity is relative to any given situation.

Black sheep are still sheep.

There is a major difference in the intelligence grasp of a person who is a Satanist for 30 years verses one who has just found the left hand path.

Your postings, and behavior show others just what kind of person you are.

If you act like a dick, you are a dick, and no amount of ass kissing or tongue jobs will change that.

There is no hand holding hippy tree hugging equality acceptance in Satanism. Everyone is food until proved otherwise.

If you are weak ass food, you will be eaten.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#29031 - 08/29/09 05:14 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Jake999]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Denver, CO USA
You just have to have the last word, don't you? Well, today is my birthday (8/29/68), so I'll let you have it. But, it must be hard not suffering fools and finding it easy to live within yourself, all things considered. \:\)
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#29032 - 08/29/09 05:19 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Azathoth68]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3109
 Quote:
"Good for religionists...", Oh, I'm sorry, I thought I was merely pointing out that I found it hard to follow on argument based upon self-canceling points that did not rationally follow to an acceptable conclusion.

There is a certain saying: "it is better to remain silent and keep people into doubt then to open your mouth and remove it all ".

 Quote:
Don't worry though, I've read many of your arguments, and I'm sure they've directly contributed to your 'non-blue' status.

At least I admit mistakes and lasted longer then the usual idiotic grunt here... And proved quite some intelligence, maybe not as much to have a familiar status, but hey I don't care about titles on the internet.

And happy birthday, enjoy your bulletcake..


Edited by Dimitri (08/29/09 05:24 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#29033 - 08/29/09 05:20 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Azathoth68]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Happy birthday. My condolences to your parents.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29034 - 08/29/09 05:41 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Jake999]
Azathoth68 Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Denver, CO USA
Wow, this has degenerated quickly! Bulletcake? Condolences to my parents? This has definitely been a great start to my birthday! It's not everyday you start out shooting down a weak post and then get flamed by a cabal of angry villagers!
Well, enjoy your commiseration. I wish all of you the best. \:\)

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#29035 - 08/29/09 05:51 AM Re: Inequality among Satanists [Re: Azathoth68]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
What is so incredible hard to understand in something being dependent upon context and thus it being possible to have different values?

I don't see the failure of logic in the fact that 'better' is a moot point and at other occasions a valid one. Humans have no value when it comes to that, as much as any other part of reality, but in another context, like a political economical societal emotional etc, the same valueless human suddenly can become valuable and thus, become better than others.

So what is the problem here?

D.

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