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#17960 - 01/10/09 07:41 PM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Jake999]
Fabiano Offline
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Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
Exactly! "to the fullest" can be viewed as an ideal. Something alike a James Bond who never fails. But the LHP follower is realist, he knows that "to the fullest" should be understood as "as the fullest as you can". As long as I know an ideal is an ideal and I don't believe it can become real, it can be useful, as a model. I know that sometimes I'll fail at reaching some of my goals but at least I try! I have not preconception or tabou that would prevent me to try it...

To me, living my life to the fullest also stands in the "Carpe Diem". A matter of fully living each instant of life (that's the ideal, off course!)

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#17961 - 01/10/09 08:45 PM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Diavolo]
Fabiano Offline
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Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
Hum, dream is really a synonym of ideal in your dictionary.

May be this expression reflect more my conception of dream : "Don't dream your life, live your dreams".

Looking for a translation of my "dream" in your dictionnary, I thought to "big desire".

This enabled me to see the light you bring : Dreams cause desire and if the dream is unatainable it will cause suffering.

But here is a little true story : A guy was dreaming about having a Ferrari. But He wasn't rich... He was a mecanician. He really desired this dream car.
Now he realised his dream. He bought an ancestor for which he pays few taxes and insurance. He drives it just for fun in the summer.

So, are dreams always useless ?

do what you need to do... for what ? For just surviving or for living to the fullest?

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#17964 - 01/10/09 09:48 PM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Fabiano]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
"living life to the fullest"

This statement is and always has been nonsense. The fullest of what? Exactly where is the marker of 'fullest' and why can't we go beyond it?

Am I using my computer to the fullest right now? When I drink this coffee, am I really enjoying it 'to the fullest'?

Maybe I don't feel like living to the fullest right now. Maybe I had a hard day and only want to live life to the second fullest tonight. Why the imperative?

The worst, though, is that 'fullest' isn't even a real word. Sure it's in a few dictionaries now (probably because of that stupid catch phrase), but shouldn't it be 'most full'?




ps - Is a mechanician someone that can transform a Honda into an Audi with a wave of his hand and an incantation?
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#17965 - 01/10/09 11:01 PM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread


ps - Is a mechanician someone that can transform a Honda into an Audi with a wave of his hand and an incantation?


Well, if he could do that, a REAL mechanician would turn that little Honda into a Lincoln Town Car. I swung my magic wand (and a checkbook) over the desk of a man one day and POOF... there it was. Master mechanician I am.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#17970 - 01/11/09 04:35 AM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Fabiano]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The Ferrari example is a typical one. I knew a guy that really desired a specific car, so he worked for years saving all the cash he could to have that dream car. After a couple years of denying himself everything but the essentials and work work work, he finally could buy it. Oh boy he was happy.... for about a week or two. Even if you'd look at it logically, how much enduring is worth how much happiness?

I don't get this material adoration. If I make the sum of my life, is it really my car, my toaster and my wardrobe? Or maybe that I built a house, climbed a mountain, beat a guy to shit, killed, gutted and cooked my own food, ran 15 miles in that many minutes, fucked like a pornstar.... At what point does possession become more important than experience? At what point does a man equal what he has instead of what he does?

D.

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#17974 - 01/11/09 07:46 AM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Diavolo]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
There is a difference between the man you describe, who is placing the car at the top of his priority and is stupid enough for not realising that it will cost him more than he'll get back and my mechanician who, from a dream, managed to build an attainable goal. His Ferrary was a little one and was 25 or 30 years old.

I suspect the first guy to consider the Ferrari as a symbol of success. He hard worked for getting the symbol, may be confusing the symol with what it represents. He did it very probably for just exhibing the symbol in front of the other and be able to say "I made it". And probably he'll see some envy in other's eyes... But at the end, he has a bitter taste in the mouth because he feels this is not success.
Brief, in two words, typical self-delusion.

On the other hand, the mechanician wanted the Ferrari because he loves beautifull cars. Even if he gets some satisfaction from the looking the other staring at his car, it's not his goal. He was realist and find a way to make his passion affordable.

The first guy looks for possessions (because they symbolyse success) the second one is looking for making an experience : driving a "dream car".

To me, the last guy lives his life to the fullest, the first one try to convince himself and the others that it's the case.


Edited by Fabiano (01/11/09 07:50 AM)

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#17975 - 01/11/09 09:04 AM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Dan_Dread]
Fabiano Offline
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Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
This is an ideal, and in your very real world, I can understand it's a non sense.

It's not imperative, I take it just as a good advise.
What about the people who live their life as a succession of identical days Métro-boulot-dodo?

I know about hard days. I was not saying anything else when I was revendication my right for lazyness. Laziness is not really what will bring me closer to any ideal but I stay indulgent and realist with it...

Regarding the fullest vs most full, I leave the native speakers to debate on it \:D

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#17979 - 01/11/09 12:04 PM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Fabiano]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I was writing a reply for this but then I was thinking why the fuck am I debating dreams and Ferrari?

I just don't like dreams when goals are so much better to describe it. It's the same reason why I don't call psychological tricks lesser magick. After all, I do also go to a doctor and not a shaman.

D.

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#17983 - 01/11/09 01:20 PM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Dan_Dread]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
"living life to the fullest"

This statement is and always has been nonsense. The fullest of what? Exactly where is the marker of 'fullest' and why can't we go beyond it?


I believe each person has to set that marker for themselves. What one may deem as living their life to the fullest may not be the same as another person's idea of it. There really isn't a universal definition for living your life to the fullest.
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#17985 - 01/11/09 02:19 PM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I would say not only is there no 'universal' definition;there is no subjective definition either. This is really just another phrase people use with no real meaning behind it. A lot in language is just pulp and fluff.
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#18031 - 01/12/09 06:27 AM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Diavolo]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
We were debating Dreams and Ferrari to know if dreams are "usefull" somehow.

When I see Dan in an other thread saying

 Originally Posted By: Dan
If every person in the military just dropped their gun, the state would crumble post haste. Society would be free to function as it should, in a state of meritocracy where the ones that cant cut it don't survive.
I'm wondering to which extend it is not a dream or an ideal. The vision of an ideal anarchist society.

A a little bit further

 Originally Posted By: Dan


Quote:

"If" is the realm of children. I live in the real world.


Oh I don't know about that. Without 'if' we would never have anything new. We would still be living in trees and eating insects.


That's in this sense that I think Dreams can be usefull....

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#18035 - 01/12/09 09:21 AM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Fabiano]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Dreams is this romantic cock-up concept used in advertising to convince you that the car that costs 25% more than you really have and has 50% more functions than you really need, is THE thing you must have to fulfill your depressing life so you can live happily ever after.
The last guy that had a dream got shot in public and those that held hands to fulfill their global dreams either died or became entrepreneurs that snorted coke, dressed in business suits and realized goals are what it is all about.

I don't like dreams, as one might suspect.

D.

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#18258 - 01/15/09 04:52 PM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Diavolo]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Regarding idealism, I read this fairly interesting perception upon it. It might explain better why I see all idealism as RHP obstacles.

 Quote:
God did not die. He was, and still is, simply transferred. He, God, is nothing more than the recent belief by humanity in one perfect way; and the search, the certainty, the arrogance which encompasses the world-view of each and every individual still unconsciously pining for God in his old form continues unabated today with the individual projecting the notion of God onto/into other facets of the Matrix.
Individuals put their faith in Science, in the Wisdom of others, in the idea of “Progress“, “Truth“, or “Facts“, “Democracy“, “Peace” or “the Future” and strive to arrange the world just so in a unique and individual schemata that is collectively united by humanities mass desire for a replica of the singular perfection of the God that was.
Because of this reasoning that humanity is unconsciously mourning the loss of the reign of God as a totalitarian dictator that told them exactly what to do, when to do it and why and is trying to replace that Apex by projecting that same singular will [and it is irrelevant whether the new form is so-called “adversarial” or “rebellious” against God / this means nothing.] onto things - the criticisms/‘corrections’ leveled at any Form displayed by THEM are treated in this greater context as the trivial concerns by another human being to arrange the world according to their unconscious ethos of the Singular psychosis.

Copyrighted to THEM


D.

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#20355 - 02/14/09 06:03 AM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: daevid777]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
I've heard many things of the "LHP", and read a great deal as well... These definitions don't always exactly coincide - so, I am making a request of you "friends", if you would be kind enough to explain what the Left Hand Path means to you.


You wrote this over a year ago, David, but I find myself wanting to answer it.

In my view the Left Hand Path begins with amorality, the rejection of Superego, the denial of a moral dimension to the objective universe.

From that position, the questions that matter become:

1. What do I want?
2. What do I fear?
3. How do I get what I want?
4. How do I avoid what I fear?

With those questions clarified as the ones that matter, what remains is answering them, and re-answering, perpetually, from now until death - and taking ruthless action in accord with the answers.

Everything else I have posted to this message board has been conceived in the context of what I have now written in response to your query, David. What do I want and fear? That is Heart. How do I get what I want and avoid what I fear? That is Mind and Will.

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#20356 - 02/14/09 06:48 AM Re: "Left Hand Path" [Re: Zoid]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

One can choose to avoid that which he doesn't understand or fears... One can instead overcome their fear and face it head on... One is the path of the strong, the other?

~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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