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#40835 - 07/25/10 04:18 PM ... but Caladrius doesn't. [Re: Caladrius]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino (to Dan Dread)
By George he's got it! Well, almost - ... - because the world actually started in 1975.

DAMN! Dan beat me. I think I got it too finally... LIKE THIS?

No, more like this.

 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
I've heard of wack job theories in Intelligent Design where the earth is said to be 6000 years old, and the Grand Canyon took only 10 days to make. But the world beginning in 1975 takes this to a whole new level! Thank you for being alive.

Don't thank me until you're alive too. [I'm usually pretty good at dezombification, but you're a tough case.]

 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
So what about the rest of the circa 4 billion years of the earth's history?

Actually there wasn't any, because "history" is a chronological record of events, not just their occurrence per se. But if you really want to know, then it is time for you to confront Ubbo-Sathla.

 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
Which leads me to another question I have: Is Set subject to time or above time?

Set exists apart from the physical universe (what Setians call the Objective Universe). Time has existence and significance only within the OU, since it is simply the measurement of OU change.

The study of "time" is fascinating in its own right. As an excellent introduction I particularly recommend this from the Temple of Set reading list.

 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
The reason why I ask this is because our human species has only been around for about 200,000 years.

Why stop there?

 Originally Posted By: M.A.A., Introcaution, "Secret of the Lost Ark"
... In 1993 two troublemakers decided to rile up the sleeping dog of human prehistory even further. Their names were Michael Cremo and Richard Thompson, and they wrote a big, fat book entitled Forbidden Archæology: The Hidden History of the Human Race (San Diego: Bhaktivedanta Institute, 1993 - ISBN: 0-9635309-8-4). The book is a gigantic compendium of all sorts of “inconvenient” archæological data that conventional archæology has preferred to ignore or “fast-forward” through. At the end of this tome the authors blithely propose the significance of this data: that “beings resembling anatomically-modern humans were present in the Early Pleistocene and Pliocene”.

Everybody sitting down? The Early Pleistocene takes us back about 1.7 million years, and the Pliocene reaches back to around 3.5 million years. [So much for my mere 100,000 years.]

A year later Cremo & Thompson followed FA with a less-technical, abridged version entitled just The Hidden History of the Human Race (Badger, CA: Govardhan Hill, 1994).

If conventional archæology just ignores the 100,000-year problem like a mad aunt locked in the cellar, you can imagine what the reaction to Forbidden Archæology was, i.e. flat-out fury. The 1996 issue (#IV-1) of Skeptic contains an article “Hidden History, Hidden Agenda” by Bradley Lepper (Curator of Archæology, Ohio Historical Society) pouring boiling cauldrons of scorn on HHHR, complaining that it “mixed together a genuine contribution to our understanding of the history of archæology and paleoanthropology with a bewildering mass of absurd claims and an audaciously distorted review of the current state of paleoanthropology”. [Try to say that in a single breath.] After complaining that C&T are “ignorant”, “naïve”, and “selectively credulous to an astonishing degree”, Lepper hammers his lectern and zings his finale:

 Originally Posted By: Lepper
Cremo and Thompson’s claim that anatomically modern homo sapiens have been around for hundreds of millions of years is an outrageous notion. Accepting that there is a place in science for seemingly outrageous hypotheses, there is no justification for the sort of sloppy rehashing of canards, hoaxes, red herrings, half-truths, and fantasies Cremo and Thompson offer in the service of a religious ideology.

The “religious ideology” in question is of course not Judæo/Christianity or Islam. As previously noted, they are incompatible with even a 95,000-year human prehistory. What Lepper is apoplectic about are the Vedas, which, while not figuring per se in C&T’s books, are distant-past compatible. And C&T happen to be, as they acknowledge at the beginning of their books, Vedics ...


 Originally Posted By: Caladrius
So I wondered what Set was called before Egyptians and people were around to call him Set.

First you would have to explain to me who would be doing the "calling"?
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Michael A. Aquino

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#40836 - 07/25/10 04:35 PM Re: ... but Caladrius doesn't. [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino

First you would have to explain to me who would be doing the "calling"?


This is a very interesting demand. I find it very revealing Aqunio. Let me ask you a question: When I give you information regarding this demand of "Explain To Me" WHO processes the information I give you into an answer: You or Set?

I would assume Set knows what he was called a million years ago. What's wrong with your communication link with Set, that rather than ask Set for a simple answer, you need me to explain things to you?


Edited by Caladrius (07/25/10 04:36 PM)
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#40877 - 07/26/10 11:25 PM Re: Satanic/Setian Distinctions [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Duende Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/25/10
Posts: 75
Loc: USA
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
There is no such distinction between Setians and Set, because we perceive ourselves as "particularizations of his generality" - individually-aware extensions of his original, isolate consciousness.

This has been an interesting thread to say the least.
So basically, Set is the collective consciousness , the overmind that connects all minds, which all minds arise from ?


Edited by Duende (07/26/10 11:26 PM)
Edit Reason: wrong word

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#40878 - 07/26/10 11:57 PM Re: Satanic/Setian Distinctions [Re: Duende]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Set is the Platonic form or principle of isolate consciousness which individual isolate self consciousnes partakes of.

In the past I have desribed Set as a representation (sorry Dr. Aquino) but "he" is much more than this.

My consciousness is a gift of Set which I want to try to use authentically. Set is the precondition of consciousness I think, the living universal from which isolate self consciousness is derived.

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#41146 - 07/31/10 11:19 AM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Prometheus9]
americanfront Offline
lurker


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 2
what ever happened to James Mason?

Anyone know how to contact Schreck?

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#41254 - 08/02/10 12:23 AM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: americanfront]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



I recall last seeing James Mason in the Hollywood film of Shakespeare's 'Julius Caesar' with Marlon Brando. (Mason played Brutus I think). I think Mason also played Captain Nemo in the film 'Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea?' I honestly haven't seen him since so am not sure what happened to him.

In terms of Schreck - check with the werewolves from The Twilight movies. I think he is still one of them.

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#42028 - 08/18/10 01:46 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Nemesis]
Duende Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/25/10
Posts: 75
Loc: USA
Here is my take on the whole Church of Satan & Temple of the Vampire situation.
I think the TOV has the relationship that it does with the CoS because it permits interested Satanists to explore GM with others in an environment more conducive to the discussion of its practice. I am aware of at least one instance where a CoS member who expressed over enthusiasm with GM was guided by another CoS member, who was also a TOV member, to seek affiliation wih the TOV, because that is where the study and work on GM was occuring.
I think the TOV and it's relationship with the CoS is directly based on the need for an environment for the further exploration of GM by those who feel the need to do so, and require a COS stamp of approval for whatever personal reasons.
I see it as a perfectly natural development within the CoS.
Those who do not share this specific interest in GM will not understand how the hell any CoS member would see the two organizations to be compatible. The fact is that while there are some CoS members who think both groups are mutually exclusive, there are some CoS members (including high level members) who enjoy membership in both organizations.
I would be surprised not to hear of similar organizations exploring other facets of the Powers of Darkness to emerge from and to establish similar relations with the Church of Satan in the not too distant future.
This is not uncommon in a group where some of the members are exploring the Dark Arts in a serious manner. And besides, these groups generate some good $$$ for their respective heads.

Duende
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seeker of the mysteries ......

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#42051 - 08/19/10 09:02 AM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Duende]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
ToV is basically Scientology with pointy teeth. It is a money-maker functioning on rather identical principles. All it needs are gullible people with cash in their pockets.

In itself it isn't a dumb idea but there is as much GM involved as in all those products you see on the average shopping channel.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (08/19/10 09:06 AM)

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#43588 - 10/13/10 10:44 AM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Diavolo]
Wolflust Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 33
Excuse me for bumping a somewhat old thread, but the relationship between C/S and ToV seems still highly relevant, and obviously there are a lot of members that do not support the C/S ties to the ToV at all, and are actually trying to do something about it. And in my eyes, they have succeeded to some extent.

To get a clue of what I`m talking check out this link http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/174/P1520
and pour yourself a huge cup of coffee \:D

Anyway, I wonder if there are any members of the Temple of the Vampire frequenting this board? Then I`d would be interested in learning more about how and why Satanism and "vampirism" is compatible? I can`t at least see why a Satanist like Peter H. Gilmore, who is of the very atheistic approach opposed to some others, would let a group like ToV use LttD to proselytize.


Edited by Wolflust (10/13/10 10:46 AM)
Edit Reason: Couldn`t get the link to work....
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#43593 - 10/13/10 02:03 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Wolflust]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
how and why Satanism and "vampirism" is compatible?


They are compatible in that it is another way for both of them to make more money. Sort of like how Qwest 'bundled' their services with Direct TV.
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No gods. No masters.

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#43599 - 10/13/10 09:14 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Wolflust Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/20/09
Posts: 33
Probably, yes I agree. I guess that it is in some way "satanic" to make money of gullible people with a personality complex.

Though I think the C/S is losing its integrity in all this, and if to "sell out" seems to be their reasonable thing to do, I guess the Church of Satan has lost much of its (original) substance.

And I`ve never seen any "Satanic Vampires" (as many like to refer to themselves as) actually explain why the two philosophies fit together, except for double-talking their way out of the question or attacking the people asking.

I like the way Anton LaVey put it in the Satanic Bible, to paraphrase; "here is bedrock!", and to me the so-called "vampires" seem nothing but a bunch of people who are afraid to die (who aren`t?) and makes fools of themselves in the process talking about "world domination" and "eternal life".

I guess I dont "get it", most like the same way I don`t "get" Christianity.

End of rant.
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It is not my name or my number, its how I use it and what I do.

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#43624 - 10/14/10 05:40 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Wolflust]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
In New York City where the CoS is based, there is a huge goth/vampire community. There are also a large variety of Satanists. There tends to be a lot of crossover people, meaning people who are Satanists that are also goth, that do the vampire thing, and etc. Everyone tends to know everyone, and it is in a way kinda inbred. Now this doesn't mean that everyone likes each other or plays nice, it's just another click kinda thing.

Lots of vamps think the CoS is a joke, just like how lots of Satanist think the CoS is a joke. I think/kinda know there are way more active type Satanist/vamps that bypass both groups in NYC.

People are more apt to spend their money on the vampire balls, parties and clothes than pay to join either one of those groups.

A quick way to look at the two would be to think of it in a way regarding predatory nature that many Satanist and many in the Vampire community espouse.

Just like how some in the MCOS want everyone to be all nice and happy, there are factions in the vamp that want this as well. The truth of the matter is most of those with the Predatory nature hate people and laugh at the handholding and kowtowing that these groups tend to push.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#43626 - 10/14/10 08:06 PM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Morgan]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
In New York City where the COS is based, there is a huge goth/vampire community. There are also a large variety of Satanists. There tends to be a lot of crossover people, meaning people who are Satanists that are also goth, that do the vampire thing, and etc.

This brings back an amusing memory. In '70-72 in Louisville the Nineveh Grotto of the C/S didn't have to deal with anything like a goth/vamp subculture; the "crossover" was, of all things, the SCA. This wasn't a problem with the female Satanists, but the males tended to show up for Grotto events all banged up, bandaged, limping, etc. It got to the point where Nineveh rescheduled its events slightly ahead of SCA ones, so that we didn't look like outtakes from M.A.S.H.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#43629 - 10/15/10 04:13 AM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
In northern Europe I’d say that the crossover for many years has been the metal scene and Satanism to a much larger degree than the goth subculture which tend to lean more towards witchcraft movements.

It is not shocking at all with all the Satanic imagery that plays a huge role for some bands. Black metal as a genre pretty much came forth out of spite for society and Christianity. In some cases the metal scene takes a very childish approach but I think the interesting thing is the amount of different perspectives being put forth.

Yes, a big part is purely image based. It’s a gimmick and some bands are very open about this and some fans take it for what it is – a show. Others have tried to make sense of this kind of ideology and actually tries hard to gain a more respectable face in that they try to sound more academic and try to follow their ideas back to ancient traditions (The Temple of the Black Light is the best example of this). Of course, to anyone who has studied mythology seriously their conclusions and interpretations are mostly seen as a joke. However the important thing here is that they are indeed very serious about their beliefs. It went from show and schock to being something that is practiced and taken seriously by the practitioners.

And then we have the people are truly creative and where a sort of Satanic foundation can be seen in whatever they do. The matured Ihsahn would be a good example of this. And these people are often the ones who do not rely to heavily on the imagery. They just are what they are and usually don’t base their philosophy on any kind of organization, doctrine or alike.

The one thing these people have in common is a dislike of the CoS however. Many dislike LaVey as well but in general the organization is what gets the most amount of laughs (yes not hate because most don’t see it as a serious thing anyway). Many people are fine with LaVey although they don’t ever see him as the be all end all of Satanism. He was one among many. Most seem to be able to appreciate some of his ideas but realize the importance of not going back to him as much as going forth and create something new and something fitting to this, this context and this individual.

And of course for the people on the outside looking in they usually see the nutcases within the scene. But this is to be expected. If one is on the outside looking in on Satanism they probably see more of the nuts than anything else. Heck, even I who have an insider perspective probably see more nuts as well :P


Edited by TheInsane (10/15/10 04:14 AM)

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#70568 - 08/29/12 05:21 AM Re: Church of Satan & Temple of The Vampire [Re: TheInsane]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
In terms of the specific relationship between ToV and CoS, that is an easy question. Nemo is a Magus in the CoS. They have a mutually beneficial relationship. The definition of "psychic vampire" in the respective organizations has a different genesis. Should the relationship cease being beneficial, I am sure they will part company.

On another note: The relationship between the vamp and satanic "communities" has always been tenuous. Many vamps will find Satanism absurd. Many satanists will see vamps in much the same fashion. If ToV truly disavows sangunarianism, the relationship may well last.

The key is the leadership. Folks will make whatever self-identification or association that serves their needs (or in sadder cases doesn't even do that) Nemo is fairly well known on the west coast. ToV is one of many vamp groups here. The philosophical connection can be found in their theory of "daywalking". I suspect some members of both organizations may prefer a separation. I doubt that would happen unless the folks running the shows determine the relationship to be detrimental to one or both organizations.
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