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#28521 - 08/17/09 12:19 AM Liber III vel Jugorum
Domonic Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Edgewood New Mex
Alright, good to be back for starters. 93 to all.

Okay, now getting it on with. Three days ago I have taken practice of the Liber III vel Jugorum. To better myself, not in seek of attention. Nothing of that sort. But to truly better myself. Have any of you practiced this? I want to get a view on all things that are of irrelevance in our speech, action, and emotion so that I can get to understand what I need to do for my second part. I am on the unicorn. And jesus fucking christ, have I been fucking up. And please. This is important to me, so if you wanna talk down on me, so be it, but I wont respond to you to fuel your need.
_________________________
Liber III vel Jugorum- " To understand initiation, you must understand yourself."

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#28526 - 08/17/09 01:42 AM Re: Liber III vel Jugorum [Re: Domonic]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2575
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Domonic
I have taken practice of the Liber III vel Jugorum. To better myself, not in seek of attention. Nothing of that sort. But to truly better myself. Have any of you practiced this? I want to get a view on all things that are of irrelevance in our speech, action, and emotion so that I can get to understand what I need to do for my second part. I am on the unicorn. And jesus fucking christ, have I been fucking up. And please. This is important to me, so if you wanna talk down on me, so be it, but I wont respond to you to fuel your need.

It's not clear to me whether you aspire to be a Satanist or a Thelemite. They are not the same thing, and there is no better illustration of this than Liber III.

Liber III is a classic case of Aleister Crowley being a cruel prankster, which he was often inclined, or provoked by the naïveté of would-be disciples, to be. Liber III gives you a series of thought-restrictions to which the random thought-processes of your mind cannot possibly adhere, and tells you to slice your arms up each time you fail. Very quickly you'll look like you stuck your hand down a kitchen sink garbage disposal, and what will you have learned? Nothing mystical. Just how stupid one can be following the idiotic dictates of any profane religion.

Anton LaVey's summation of applied Satanism was "Indulgence Instead of Abstinence". This is a short way of saying: If you want to do it and it won't harm you or anyone else, and it won't scare the cats, go right ahead and enjoy yourself. The learning process here is to think through the consequences of your desires before you indulge them, so that you don't wind up with unhappy unintended consequences. Think rational self-interest.

Thelema is a Right-Hand Path initiatory curriculum, like the Masons, Rosicrucians, Golden Dawn, Gnosticism, etc. It's supposed to progressively destroy your individuality in quest of submergence of your consciousness in that of the cosmos (e.g. "God"). Like Edward G. Robinson's final scene in Soylent Green, this is beautiful, dreamy, musical, and suicidal. Crowley was smart enough to see this, hence pursued LHP initiation for himself while advocating the RHP for others. This is why Thelemites today are so utterly at sea about how to "follow" Crowley.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#28543 - 08/17/09 04:37 PM Re: Liber III vel Jugorum [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Domonic Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Edgewood New Mex
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
[Liber III is a classic case of Aleister Crowley being a cruel prankster, which he was often inclined, or provoked by the naïveté of would-be disciples, to be. Liber III gives you a series of thought-restrictions to which the random thought-processes of your mind cannot possibly adhere, and tells you to slice your arms up each time you fail. Very quickly you'll look like you stuck your hand down a kitchen sink garbage disposal, and what will you have learned? Nothing mystical. Just how stupid one can be following the idiotic dictates of any profane religion.



Yes, I do see how this can bee seen as a mere pranksters joke, but at the same time , of course, Im going to have to dissagree with you to a point. Now I see how a person with a good will to do something ,being able to follow and learn from it. Not that I imply that I have a good will, hence the practice, but some one like myself also can learn. Is what I am trying to say is that now I start to notice how I talk. Ideotic, words of irrelevance. I have a problem with saying stupid words when showing agreement in a conversation. This word being a grunty," huh,". Now why sell yourself short when there is a proper way out there.Now no matter what, im going to do what ever the fuck I want, as all of us. But I take interest in making better of myself out of will to do so. A dog shits on your carpet, you show it not to. And it learns.
_________________________
Liber III vel Jugorum- " To understand initiation, you must understand yourself."

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#28593 - 08/17/09 11:30 PM Re: Liber III vel Jugorum [Re: Domonic]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
So instead of "following" Crowley, why don't you just recognize that you need to work on the level of intelligence present in your speech patterns and fix it?

Why do people so feel the need to follow and "belong"?

While I'm never going to be one to bitch about someone reading a book of any kind, I do find it amusing that so many people read anything and think, "Oh yeah, this will help me be a better person. If only I can follow the instructions EXACTLY..."

Seriously. Is introspection really that difficult? Is it too much to just weigh how you come off to other people and adjust accordingly? Why do you have to find someone to follow in order to expand yourself?

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#28847 - 08/23/09 09:44 PM Re: Liber III vel Jugorum [Re: Domonic]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
To Dom: as a test of self-control Liber III has its uses, but as has been stated; it is almost beyond reach and can be viewed as comical to a point. I like to think there is something to be gained from experiencing humiliation also, but I won't go into that at the moment.

To Michael: It is good to see someone who understands the contradictions but knows their purpose. As I am sure you are aware, Crowley did consider both paths to be exactly the same as far as outer orders are concerned. This is the point that many fail to understand and never get beyond – and yes, you are right, many so-called Thelemites are stuck in this state. I think this is why Thelema by its nature implies that it cannot be an end in itself.

This is why I am of the opinion that Crowley, and many others of his disposition, saw no problem whatsoever with being Freemasons as well as what may loosely be described as evil – by societies moral standards. It is unfortunate though that many never get beyond Adeptus Minor and all that that entails.

Having said this, some will always struggle with false inversions and the idea that personal and intellectual freedom can only develop with an acceptance of contradiction; even as they approach the Abyss. I have seen this in many fraternal organisations. If it were up to me, these people would never get to that point.

I hope you don't mind me using Hermetic terminology; in this case I thought it would make more sense. I assume these levels would be reflected within the ToS – perhaps around the Magus Degree?


M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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