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#29821 - 09/19/09 12:13 AM Learning from the Values
Crystalixe Offline
lurker


Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3
Loc: Texas
I am not a Satanist.

I do not believe in any deities as if they were a conscious force, nor do I use any deity as a symbol or role model as done, if I am not horribly mistaken, in LaVeyan Satanism.

However I am interested in Satanism not for the reason to become one or to have extensive knowledge about the belief/philosophy, but because I see some of its key values as useful for my own personal beliefs.

I shy away from labels of any kind but for the simplicity of another hopefully understanding where I stand, I consider myself an eclectic pantheist. I believe nature is the highest power (what many would call “God”) and that nature is everyone and everything. So why am I interested in Satanism and how its key values may become valuable to me?

Satanism, at least how I see it, does not condemn the concept of the negative aspects of life as we know it and nature. And it is THAT in which I highly respect and seek to understand more.

Nature is not all birth, love, and happiness. It is death, it is hate, it is destruction and it is chaos as well. Perhaps ironically, death, hate, destruction, chaos etc is apart of Nature’s order! In the society we live in, negative events and emotions are condemned and deemed bad when in reality, it is APART of nature. “Bad” is human, and while humans are apart of nature, the concept of bad (which I see as being unattached to negativity in reality) does not rise above the human level and psyche.

Perhaps to some it would seem an easy task to simply embrace negativity and one’s idea of it. And while I accept the idea and seek to embrace it as I do the positive things in life, I feel it takes time do so and use it to my benefit in my life. And even after I have soaked up the idea to my core, truly “using” and embracing it may very well be a life-long, ongoing task.

You may be wondering why the hell I’m posting this! Out of curiosity, I suppose. Perhaps someone will say or ask something that will make me think. I’m just looking for input it seems.

Best Regards,
Crystal

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#29823 - 09/19/09 12:35 AM Re: Learning from the Values [Re: Crystalixe]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3882
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Sick of one sided coins are you? Well that seems as good a reason as any to study Satanism. As far as I know, we are the only 'religion' to embrace mans nature, in it's unforgiving and sometimes brutal entirety.

Life is not duality or bifurcation. The shades of gray are near infinite.

That you seek this out because, as you say, it may be 'useful' to you already makes you more of ..what I at least..would consider a Satanist than most of these kids that wander in here proclaiming their Satanic nature to all that will listen.

Also, the fact that you put time into writing clearly and correctly will certainly be appreciated.

I for one hope you stick around \:\)

Welcome.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#29828 - 09/19/09 03:17 AM Re: Learning from the Values [Re: Crystalixe]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1735
Loc: New York
If I misunderstood your post I apologize. I’m tired, and my brain isn’t firing on all cylinders.

I believe you may be mistaking embracing the negative aspects of life, with acceptance, and acknowledging them as a natural and at times a useful learning experience.

I personally, have no intention of “embracing” the negative aspects of life. On the contrary, I do my very best to fight against them.

On the other hand, I realize that “bad” things are only bad from a subjective point of view. Wether something is bad or good depends on what we tell ourselves about a certain subject or situation and our world view.

Without out that “world view” filter- things and situations, are just things and situations.

To give an example. If someone in regards to my post here would respond and say that “You have no idea what you are babbling about, and you are a complete idiot for posting when you are too tired to think straight.”

I might “feel” that they are attacking me, and might allow my feelings and self esteem to be hurt, which would be viewed by me as “bad.” But what is really hurtful about that statement? The statement itself is just an opinion expressed by words and do not by themselves have a sharp edge to cause any negative feelings in me without my world view filter. That view being perhaps that I should not be attacked or put down and that person is wrong to say such hurtful and negative things. Which in turn would put me in a defensive or an attack mode because of the stimuli that I ALLOWED to take place in my psyche.

The proof that the words themselves could not cause any negative feelings in me, is that if the person wrote the same thing in Japanese (which I do not understand) they would have no affect on me whatsoever..

If I come home, and find that a tree has fallen on my house and caused a great amount of damage, I might “feel” depressed, saddened, and even attacked by that tree. All kinds of negative feelings might go through me causing anxiety and even physical distress.

Yet, nothing happened that can hurt me, without my willingness to tell myself that I SHOULD be hurt. The ONLY thing that actually happened was a tree falling on my house, greatly damaging it.

If I can shut my “How things should be” filter off, and turn on the “Objective”filter, then instead of feeling panic, I could calmly check the damage, accept that it happened and that no negative force was involved. Then go find shelter elsewhere, after calling my insurance company, and move on with life.
Also in the later view, there is no need to “Look at the bright side” of things, such as no one was hurt and that perhaps I can now build a better house.” To attempt to “embrace” the situation by telling myself that it’s nature at work, would be using a band-aid to cover up a hurt wound, which wouldn’t have to be there, if I didn’t allow my emotions to run rampant in the first place. In other words, I wouldn’t have to make excuses for nature doing its natural “thing,” if I didn’t emotionalize the situation to start with.

BUT...AT NO TIME would I embrace either one of those examples. I could use either one as a learning tool however, but to embrace them would be placing a false positive spin on them in some way. Objectively, they are not negative or positive. They both simply are what they are. The first one being words, expressing someone’s opinion, and the other just a situation caused by nature.

You are right in saying that nature is not all birth, love and happiness. But it is also NOT hate, and chaos either. Nature DOES involve birth, death, destruction and many other things.
However, what we tell ourselves about WHAT nature does, results in FEELINGS of hate, love and or the BELIEF that things are in chaos.
In other words, the acts of nature by themselves do no impact how we feel about those acts, but instead our VIEW of how the world SHOULD be dictates those emotions that we feel. But that view is merely subjective.

The Objective world does as it does, while if we allow it OUR subjective world does TO us.

The reason that so many people are depressed and unsatisfied with “things,” is because existence, life and nature do not care about the individuals beliefs of how things SHOULD be, and will not mold themselves to peoples expectations. Most people can’t accept that and CAUSE themselves to FEEL despondent over things which will happen regardless if they are or are not living on the planet.


Well, at my present tired state, all this makes great sense, however, when I read this after I am well rested it might not be as brilliant a response as it appears to be right now.
So if it doesn’t make any sense to you, then it’s most likely my bad, and not yours ;\)
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#29835 - 09/19/09 10:33 AM Re: Learning from the Values [Re: Asmedious]
Crystalixe Offline
lurker


Registered: 09/18/09
Posts: 3
Loc: Texas
All of your responses are appreciated!

MawhrinSkel,
 Quote:
I'm with Dan here. Still, your perception there is a duality stems from the human perception of being sandwiched between two extremes. This perception is a subjective view, but objectively it is a fallacy.

I think this goes back to what Dan_Dread said: "Life is not duality or bifurcation. The shades of gray are near infinite."


Asmedious, you certainly brought up statements that make excellent points.

 Quote:
I believe you may be mistaking embracing the negative aspects of life, with acceptance, and acknowledging them as a natural and at times a useful learning experience.

I personally, have no intention of “embracing” the negative aspects of life. On the contrary, I do my very best to fight against them.


I can understand how me stating that I would "embrace" negativity can be thought of as a wrong or mistaken idea. It may be my use of wording that is used incorrectly, but I do seek to accept and acknowledge the negative aspects of life as well as, of course, the positive. This would, as a result, be used to my benefit by allowing me to be stronger when I find myself in a "negative" situation. Instead of damning it as "bad" (which I see as being a human emotion and does not rise the the level of reality and nature) and letting it weaken me, I would be able to accept it as apart of life.

 Quote:
BUT...AT NO TIME would I embrace either one of those examples. I could use either one as a learning tool however, but to embrace them would be placing a false positive spin on them in some way. Objectively, they are not negative or positive. They both simply are what they are. The first one being words, expressing someone’s opinion, and the other just a situation caused by nature.


"Embracing" would be, similar to what you said if I understood correctly, putting a "good" light on the situation. Again my use of words may have been used incorrectly. So agreed, as well as with the situations being what they are.

But (and perhaps I'm just misunderstanding what you are saying) aren't the situations, being what they are, still either positive or negative? This is not to say that both concepts are simple and just two black and white ideas. I'm not saying that at all. I see them as covering a wide spectrum of events and situation. One particular event may be a positive event, another negative, and another event being both positive AND negative in some aspects.

The answer to whether a situation is simply (or not so simply!) what it is or if it can be considered positive/negative may be subjective to one's own beliefs and opinions.

And there may not be a right or wrong answer to it.

 Quote:
You are right in saying that nature is not all birth, love and happiness. But it is also NOT hate, and chaos either. Nature DOES involve birth, death, destruction and many other things.
However, what we tell ourselves about WHAT nature does, results in FEELINGS of hate, love and or the BELIEF that things are in chaos.
In other words, the acts of nature by themselves do no impact how we feel about those acts, but instead our VIEW of how the world SHOULD be dictates those emotions that we feel. But that view is merely subjective.


Once again Asmedious, agreed! I ranked emotion- hate and the feeling of chaos- on the level of reality and nature and that was my mistake. As I stated and believe, emotion is on the human level.

I thank you all for your replies. Another's point of view, input and response can make me think and even reevaluate what I believe! I seek progression and with that comes change and as I just stated reevaluation of oneself. Such may not be possible with a limited source of knowledge!

Best Regards,
Crystal

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