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#30642 - 10/19/09 07:34 PM Re: Empathy.... [Re: Phenex]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Phenex
I believe it depends on the certain person with whom one might sympathize, as to whether the feelings are "unSatanic" or not.

On these questions of what is or isnít Satanic I must ask who is keeping score and why? In my opinion if you or anyone for that matter worry that what you do is not Satanic enough or possibly unsatanic then clearly you have chosen the wrong title.

If Satan points are being handed out nobody told meÖ

 Originally Posted By: Phenex
With victims of rape, and the families of murder victim, or other individuals of the sort, I can surely sympathize with.

Why? Understand their pain and suffering sure but why should I care what they feel? Unless it somehow touches my life, as said by others here I usually feel nothing other than it sucks for them and better them than me. Should I want or expect them to care how I felt were the tides turned and it were my pain and suffering in the news?

Do I dare say that most adults involved in being raped or murdered are responsible for their own actions? Most are victims walking around waiting for a predator to recognize and act on this. Of course there are victims of murder during a crime but did the people try to defend themselves or did they lay down like good dogs and wait to die hoping for the best, like those aboard those fateful flights on 911? Can I view things from their perspective of course I can however I admit it only brings me more questions like. Where were the men (and strong women), where there only sheep?

 Originally Posted By: Phenex
However, as for random people bitching? If the situation is one that I would be upset over if it were me, than I am willing to sympathize. But as for random, meaningless issues that are mostly made up by the supposed "victims?" I could care less.

I could spend my days empathizing and sympathizing for others that do not touch me personally. If this were a pleasure for me and not taking away my time to advance my position, and myself then it would be a very Satanic thing for me to do. Of course if it cut into my time so much that I no longer cared about my own family or my own personal gain then it could be seen as quite the opposite.

Enjoy

~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#30644 - 10/19/09 09:47 PM Re: Empathy.... [Re: ta2zz]
Phenex Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 11
Why yes, there is a Satan scoreboard. Haven't you seen it? :P

I suppose is may be easier for me to sympathize because I, myself, was raped when I was a child. So, perhaps these feelings of sympathy are only, in truth, left over empathy, and memories from that moment. It is easy to become very frightened when attacked, making it harder to fight back. Honestly, I feel much more emotion towards child rape victims than adult victims; Is this correct, in my weighing one situation of more importance than another? Perhaps not, but as this discussion is about, it is much easier for to empathize, and therefore understand, a child victim's situation.
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"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds." -Einstein

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#30645 - 10/19/09 10:10 PM Re: Empathy.... [Re: Phenex]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
The Satan scoreboard is located on the modernsatanism site. It's not here, if you have to question what you do if it's satanic or not. Then you're not a Satanist, your playing dress up. You are most likey a lost dark hippy.

So what you were raped, big fucking deal, you were raped as a child so what. I don't feel any empathy or symapathy towards you either. Oh, and before you go crawling up my ass about it, I'm a survivor too.

I still feel as I stated earlier that:

"Empathy is a tool used to manipulate people into doing things they really don't want to do."
plus
"Now if you want to take their views and twist them into serving your own purposes, that is different. That is not true empathy, that's manipulation of a persons ideas/beliefs to serve your own needs."

Excuse me, I need to go kill a cow now,
Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#30667 - 10/21/09 01:12 PM Re: Empathy.... [Re: Morgan]
ballbreaker Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
It's not here, if you have to question what you do if it's satanic or not. Then you're not a Satanist, your playing dress up.


Ok. But you said: "Empathy, nope. Why should a Satanist have empathy for everyone? Why would one waste the energy when it has no benefits to oneself."

Thus the question of whether empathy (and sympathy) are "unSatanic". I don't think anyone is seeking validation here when they ask that.

Arguably a Satanist is defined by his/her beliefs and actions, so the question is really whether "real Satanists" should pay much attention to the tugs at their heartstrings. My earlier post made a distinction between feeling empathetically or sympathetically and acting on these feelings. The "feeling" does not seem to be some rationalized process where we decide whether we feel happy or sad after witnessing some event or being told some story, the feeling just "is", so I don't think it's fair to say that I shouldn't feel sympathy towards the rape victim; I either feel sympathy or I don't.

"We should devote our 'emotional energy' strictly to ourselves blablabla"...why does this necessarily exclude feelings of sympathy?

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#30668 - 10/21/09 01:55 PM Re: Empathy.... [Re: ballbreaker]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
The comment of mine you quoted was directed at Phrenex and her statement of : "I believe it depends on the certain person with whom one might sympathize, as to whether the feelings are "unSatanic" or not".

I hope that clears things up for you on that matter.

If a Satanists feels tugs at their heartstrings as you so put it, one should question themselves to why they are being made to "feel something". Is it really coming from inside them, or are they being made to feel something because of some outside manipulation.

You can feel however you want to feel or act on any impulses you may have, but at least understand why you are having those reactions.

Are they your own, were they smoothly conned on to you by a "loved one" or by the mass media.

Why is it so hard for some people to admit that they honestly don't give a shit?

Why is it so hard for some people to understand how other people really don't care if others live or die.

"Now if you want to take their views and twist them into serving your own purposes, that is different. That is not true empathy, that's manipulation of a persons ideas/beliefs to serve your own needs." --- my words I feel are still true.

Whatever......

Go hug a cow, a tree, a smelly hippy, go feed the starving children, or put the vatican up for sale.

Morgan

_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#30669 - 10/21/09 02:20 PM Re: Empathy.... [Re: Morgan]
ballbreaker Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
You can feel however you want to feel or act on any impulses you may have, but at least understand why you are having those reactions.

Are they your own, were they smoothly conned on to you by a "loved one" or by the mass media.


Right. Answers range anywhere from general penis envy and being beaten as a child to the euphoria mushrooms tend to bring on. So it's a problem of psychoanalysis or something, what does it matter that we feel a certain way towards something?

 Quote:
Why is it so hard for some people to admit that they honestly don't give a shit?


I don't know...but that's not really what we're talking about, is it?

I appreciate your stream of consciousness-esque post and all but I think you're missing my point. You started the thread asking the following question:

 Quote:
Why would one waste the energy when it has no benefits to oneself.[?]


I've technically answered this already, and it partly comes down to your definition of 'self-benefit' being narrowly construed as manipulating others to some end.

So maybe the following thought-experiment can clear some things up and see where we stand:

If I volunteer at a homeless shelter every now and then because I not only get a sense of satisfaction out of doing so but I may also like the social status it gives me because all my peers are quasi-socialists, am I acting "unSatanically"?

Really, all I've been saying is that empathy comes down not neccessarily to any actions we take as a result of our feeling but the intent behind these actions. On the other hand, if all you're really talking about is strictly feelings and whether we should feel this way or that way then I'm not sure how well I can sympathize (haha) with your position. Really I think all we have here is a failure to communicate (on my part), we probably aren't disagreeing on anything.

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#30672 - 10/21/09 04:17 PM Re: Empathy.... [Re: ballbreaker]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"If I volunteer at a homeless shelter every now and then because I not only get a sense of satisfaction out of doing so but I may also like the social status it gives me because all my peers are quasi-socialists, am I acting "unSatanically"?"

No, you are doing it for yourself. Plus, you are the only one who can judge your own actions. If you look to others for confirmation that you are acting satanically, you aren't.


"Really, all I've been saying is that empathy comes down not neccessarily to any actions we take as a result of our feeling but the intent behind these actions."

Is the intent of your actions based on your own desires or the result of an empathitic push by someone else? I think that is a big difference.

"Really I think all we have here is a failure to communicate (on my part), we probably aren't disagreeing on anything."

I don't think we are disagreeing, I think we are looking at it from different angles.

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#30673 - 10/21/09 04:44 PM Re: Empathy.... [Re: Morgan]
Phenex Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/13/09
Posts: 11
First of all, over my being raped, I was not asking for sympathy. I was saying that it is easier for me to feel empathy for rape victims because I UNDERSTAND. I don't want sympathy from you, and I'm sorry that you seem to think that every mention of a past experience is posted for a sympathetic reaction. I was using my resources, stating a fact, offering my view on empathy. Nothing more.

I do believe, however, that all acts of "good" are for one's own purpose. When it comes down to it, everything humans do is selfish, because the whole of society is based on survival. When people do "good deeds," it is because of their own want. If one did not want to do something, they wouldn't. Even if an action is decided because of someone else's want for you to do it, it is still YOUR doing, and whether it comes from wanting to please that person or wanting to save your own ass, it is still a selfish action.
_________________________
"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds." -Einstein

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