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#3065 - 01/01/08 05:36 PM Question?
foras Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
I only ask because i do not know. I've been researching and have found some answers, but still a little foggy. I recently was on C.O.S. and asked I got no explanation and no answer they just totally deleted my question. I know the First Church of Satan was founded by Karla LaVey and I belive the Church of Satan moved to New York in 1999 after Lavey's death, all I'm asking is do they have the same beliefs and why the split forgive me of my ignorance, I wish to find the answers. If someone could help or guide me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.
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#3066 - 01/01/08 06:58 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I am pretty sure you can google this. It may be on the First Church site. Check out the Wikipedia entries on the First Church and CoS.

The CoS does not recognize the First Church or Karla LaVey. As in, they really act they do not exist in the world. That is why your question was deleted.

Stalin would approve - right out of the INGSOC play book.
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#3067 - 01/01/08 07:30 PM Re: Question? [Re: Fist]
foras Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
Thank you fist I will try some more research, I wish people would just be onest on this again thanks.
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The greatest action is not conforming to the world's ways

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#3073 - 01/01/08 09:08 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
xear Administrator Offline
Admin
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Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 417
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
It's the First Satanic Church, not the FCoS.

- R

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#3086 - 01/02/08 07:03 AM Re: Question? [Re: xear]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Yes, and to make it even easier...

As far as the "Church of Satan" goes, it's not the "First Church of Satan", but the "First Satanic Church", for which you may or may not be looking...

I know, I know... it's ridiculous.
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#3088 - 01/02/08 10:25 AM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Why bother what is to be gained with learning your answer?

~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#3089 - 01/02/08 12:41 PM Re: Question? [Re: ta2zz]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Now that is a good question!

I personally do like the history and background of things, but anyone who likes history should have no problem doing their own research.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#3091 - 01/02/08 03:14 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
Soluna666 Offline
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Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Canada
Karla LaVey founded the First Satanic Church. The First Church of Satan is a different animal.

LOL, this reminds me of John Cleese in The Life of Brian...."Fuck off! We're not the Judean People's Front! We're the Front of the Judean People!" Hilarious.

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#3096 - 01/02/08 05:43 PM Re: Question? [Re: ta2zz]
foras Offline
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Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
I wish to support Anton Szandor Lavey's work. So depending on that which he wished to be carried on after his death. I want to support that church.
thank you for your question.
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The greatest action is not conforming to the world's ways

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#3097 - 01/02/08 06:44 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
I'd hope that your decision to support an organization would be based on more than the fame of the founder.
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#3098 - 01/02/08 06:45 PM Re: Question? [Re: Soluna666]
foras Offline
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Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
Sorry that was ignorant of me.
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#3099 - 01/02/08 06:51 PM Re: Question? [Re: Octavius]
foras Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
 Quote:
I'd hope that your decision to support an organization would be based on more than the fame of the founder.


O sorry I just mean, I want to carry the massage of Satan on, for others to understand. not being what Anton LaVey said alone.
But I'm new to Satanism but I wish to learn and do what it takes to suport it.


Edited by foras (01/02/08 06:54 PM)
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#3100 - 01/02/08 07:33 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1737
Loc: New York
 Quote:
O sorry I just mean, I want to carry the massage of Satan on, for others to understand. not being what Anton LaVey said alone.
But I'm new to Satanism but I wish to learn and do what it takes to suport it.



If you are new to Satanism, how do you feel qualified to carry the message of Satanism to others, without having a full understanding of it yourself?

"Non are so rightous as the newly converted."
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"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#3101 - 01/02/08 08:24 PM Re: Question? [Re: Asmedious]
foras Offline
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Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
Well I sure, I'm not qualified to do so, I meant to support it in any way I could. Like say for example joining the Church of Satan.
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#3103 - 01/02/08 10:14 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
Why don't you send me the 200 dollars that you would have spent on CoS membership and I'll send you a baphomet pendant, ritual cape, and a copy of my novel, "Proud Satanist."
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So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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#3108 - 01/02/08 11:33 PM Re: Question? [Re: Octavius]
Zakary Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 75
I think you have received some good answers here. I would google the name 'Blanche Barton' and read up on her involvement in the church.
The CoS is just like any other political/religious entity.
What the CoS may have been like under LaVeys guidance is most likely going to be different under someone else’s.
I personally wouldn't get too caught up in a quest for orthodoxy. There are a few that are claiming orthodoxy, such as the 'order of nine angles'. However, once you analyse and dissect the literature of these groups you find once again they have based much of their material on the likes of Lovecraft.
Remember, Satanism is about empowerment NOT submission to so called orthodox groups. This is in fact the model mainstream religions use; only 'we' have the correct understanding, only 'we' know the right way, only 'we' can save you.
You can tell any member from the CoS or any other group for that matter that 'I will do and believe as I please'.


'Fuck pseudo Satanic Christian types out to save you and the world'!
LaVey reinforced one powerful message in his bible 'YOU ARE YOUR OWN REDEEMER'.

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#3112 - 01/03/08 12:44 AM Re: Question? [Re: Zakary]
x.emo.danny.x Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 40
I might add that although much info is available via the web, there does seem to be an element of secrecy. I feel alot of times a chunk of info is missing. Also the histories can be rather vague.
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#3119 - 01/03/08 01:14 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
If a group claiming to be enlightened edits/deletes any questions in regards to that group, it isn't interested in personal growth. It is interested in maintaining a status quo whereby you just play follow the leader or get banned.

Yes, there was a major fallout after his death.
Thus a seperate organization was created.
Its not the first time there was a split within the group.
Yes, that group headquarters moved to nyc.
The other headquarters is still in San Fransico.

You have to decide by reading and researching what you want to believe or take to heart.
Look into reading the 2 different introduction to the Satanic Bible. One written and approved by the Anton verses the one written and changed after his death.

You dont have to be a member of any group to be a Satanist.
Only you can decide who you are and what anything means to you.
I am personally for self growth, questioning ideas, and personal evolution of oneself.

I am not fond of groups where I am told to shut up or be banned.
Black sheep are still just black colored sheep.

Good Luck in your journey,
Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#3127 - 01/03/08 05:56 PM Re: Question? [Re: Octavius]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
I found a way you could help!

You see my back has been hurting lately, probably from some stupid thing I did over the holidays... but I have a great idea:

First, send me $200.

Next, since my back has been hurting, I really could use a massage. I think the "Massage of Satan" sounds just lovely - I'll bet it would just get all those kinks out lickety-split.

(p.s. - that wasn't meant for you, Octavius... unless you have some shiatsu training...)


Edited by daevid777 (01/03/08 05:59 PM)
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#3133 - 01/03/08 08:28 PM Re: Question? [Re: x.emo.danny.x]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
I might add that although much info is available via the web, there does seem to be an element of secrecy. I feel alot of times a chunk of info is missing.


In marketing that is called a 'tease.' And for a mere $200 you too can learn the secret and ancient ways of Satan!

Yes Sir, yes madam! Step right up and view the all powerful Satan! Just two bits gets you a peak behind the curtain!

There is a sucker born every minute and one every hour to lead those sixty....

You can find this show between the sword swallower and the tattooed lady.

All the same, it is still cheaper than what the Scientologists are charging.
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#3141 - 01/04/08 04:42 PM Re: Question? [Re: Fist]
Soluna666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Canada
Anton LaVey learned a lot in the carny. Yes there is a sucker born every minute.

Crowley was the same way. They both gave people exactly what they were looking for. And people paid them for it.

L.Ron Hubbard was a master of manipulation. He even fooled Parsons.

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#3147 - 01/05/08 03:00 PM Re: Question? [Re: Morgan]
foras Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
Morgan,
Thank you very much for your response, I really appreciated it. You all here at the 600 club have been a great help. Here is what I've found which was a big help for me. The First Satanic Church was created on October 31, 1999, by Karla LaVey, the elder daughter of Anton LaVey (1930-1997), the founder of the Church of Satan. Following his death, the church was involved in an extensive controversy and litigation over the future of the church and the inheritance of LaVey's possessions. Blanche Barton, LaVey's secretary, emerged as the person in control of the church. Among those who did not accept Barton's leadership was Karla LaVey.

It is LaVey's opinion that much had been lost within the Church of Satan since her father's death. The First Satanic Church is an effort to revive the Church of Satan as she knew it at an earlier time.
Thank you all for your time.
HAIL SATAN!
_________________________
The greatest action is not conforming to the world's ways

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#3151 - 01/05/08 04:53 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
xear Administrator Offline
Admin
member


Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 417
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 Quote:
It is LaVey's opinion that much had been lost within the Church of Satan since her father's death. The First Satanic Church is an effort to revive the Church of Satan as she knew it at an earlier time.


Bingo.

- R

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#3342 - 01/11/08 01:49 PM Re: Question? [Re: Octavius]
Bridgett Leavitt Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 26
Loc: somewhere on this giant dirt b...
HA HA HA, fuckin Octavious is crackin me up today.Perhaps "foras" should find out the requiremants of becomeing a member of The Satanic Church....before you question becomeing a member. I know that if you know nothing "concrete" about Satanism, what you claim to believe, then no "church" would exept you anyways. nevermind sending the money to Octavious, send it me.....I need some new tires on my car.
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#3394 - 01/12/08 03:31 PM Re: Question? [Re: Bridgett Leavitt]
foras Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
I know all!
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The greatest action is not conforming to the world's ways

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#3496 - 01/15/08 03:51 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
Satanic Zealot Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 17
Loc: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
For me Satanism is just a guideline to live my life by. I learn from it and use what it teaches in my daily life. At first I was interested in joining the Satanic Church but then I thought of how it would benefit me, which it really wouldn't. So now I just live my own rules, based upon those taught in the Satanic Bible.
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"Does the dreadful form of personified evil only prompt you to smile?"

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#3562 - 01/17/08 06:20 PM Re: Question? [Re: Satanic Zealot]
foras Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
I agree with you fully and the more I learn the more I'm seeing.
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The greatest action is not conforming to the world's ways

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#3576 - 01/17/08 10:44 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
Veldrin Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 55
Loc: Melbourne, Australia.
The way I see it, the guy's dead. There's no way possible to tell if he would "approve" of a) the current paths of his split church or b) your actions.

So why bother with it? Choose whatever, but I doubt anyone is currently doing what ol' Anton would've done. Times change.

 Originally Posted By: Soluna666


L.Ron Hubbard was a master of manipulation. He even fooled Parsons.


Not to mention Cruise. How good do ya have to be to slide a fast one under his nose?


Edited by Veldrin (01/17/08 10:46 PM)

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#3584 - 01/18/08 07:00 PM Re: Question? [Re: Veldrin]
foras Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
Yes exactly, and not just one split. I mean,
The Temple of set, Church of Satan, First Church of Satan, First Satanic Church, Temple of The Vampire and so many others claiming there right's to the throne.
I just keep researching and soon I will make up my own mind.
_________________________
The greatest action is not conforming to the world's ways

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#3600 - 01/20/08 02:12 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Dark Greetings

Every Satanist is the ruler of his or her own throne. You don't need to follow in any of The Temple of set, Church of Satan, First Church of Satan, First Satanic Church, Temple of The Vampire footsteps. You don't need to belong to any of those groups to find the truths in Satanism. If its your true calling you will find the true meaning all on your own.

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#3604 - 01/20/08 04:52 PM Re: Question? [Re: Noc]
foras Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
 Quote:
If its your true calling you will find the true meaning all on your own.



I,am sure learning that! I also understand much more
day by day and night by night.
But also these organization I believe would have a inner circle
making them very political and religious. At the same time.

HAIL SATAN!
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#3799 - 02/02/08 11:54 PM Re: Question? [Re: foras]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
This is dumb. I'm having it off (in a bad way) with Lilee of the First Church of Satan. What does everyone here think about this "Church..."
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Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#3813 - 02/03/08 01:41 PM Re: Question? [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
I've met a few who are CoS members and they seem to enjoy it and to be involved in some kind of structured group. They have others in the group to fall back on when they need them and to help them along there chosen path. I personally have always enjoyed being solitary rather to be in a structured group due to some people who get the power trips from being head of a ritual.

But that isn't always the case but I am more comfortable with doing rituals on my own so that I can focus all my intent into what magick I'm working on instead of focusing on others as well.

I feel that it is up to each individual to make that choice if they want to join the church, but I don't think one needs to be a part of a church to be a satanist or witch to be who they are.

I figure I've got along just fine and have grown a lot on my own in the past 20 + years without the support of a structured church setting. I think if you join and it feels right to you then great, but if you join and it feels off and you stay just to fit in then thats not for that person.

Life is about experiences and we each have our own path to follow and I say do whatever makes each person happy and if that means joining a church or not is an experience you'll have to try to see if its right or not.

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#3817 - 02/03/08 02:18 PM Re: Question? [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Sven Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
Jugding just from their website it seems like a joke in my view. Their "invatation only rule" reminds of when little kids create "clubs" and they would make themselfs feel better because only the cool kids could be in it. I watched a interview with the head of the First Church of Satan and he was less then impressive in it.
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A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!
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#3829 - 02/03/08 09:09 PM Re: Question? [Re: Sven]
L Fern Tej Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Las Vegas, NV. (u.s.)
here are some pretty interesting articals on the subject.
i didn't bother researching there authenticity, but a good read none the less.
a letter from Blanche Barton regarding Karla LaVey's actions;
http://www.purgingtalon.com/nlm/cosletter.htm

regarding the black house, and the dispute between Barton and k. LaVey;
http://www.rickross.com/reference/satanism/satanism32.html
 Originally Posted By: Sven
Jugding just from their website it seems like a joke in my view. Their "invatation only rule" reminds of when little kids create "clubs" and they would make themselfs feel better because only the cool kids could be in it. I watched a interview with the head of the First Church of Satan and he was less then impressive in it.

i agree, so if you want access to the website...
http://churchofsatan.tv/library.html
just navigate from there \:\)

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#3842 - 02/04/08 04:28 PM Re: Question? [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
The splash page to their website speaks it all to me...

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#3861 - 02/05/08 02:00 PM Re: Question? [Re: ta2zz]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
I have to say, I was tempted to join the Church of Satan at first. Now I've looked into it, I think I'll just stick to being a Satanist, but in an individual sense. If I feel that joining an organisation is for me, it'll be a Satanic organisation that actually carries on the work of LaVey rather than use his name to gain members, as it seems that the CoS only want people to believe in what THEY believe a Satanist should believe (damn, that's a mouthful), rather than let their members make up their own minds on their interpretation of true Satanism (I hope this doesn't get misinterpreted as letting people interpret Satanism as devil worship, as that is now what I mean).

The only time I'll correspond with the CoS is if I need something like a Baphomet pendant or ritual robes. Unless I can get it elsewhere, that's the only place I'll use for materials.
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#3877 - 02/05/08 08:26 PM Re: Question? [Re: L Fern Tej]
Sven Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
http://www.churchofsatan.org

I love the intro page picture, it says so much too much probably.

Also if you go to Youtube type in "In Search of Satan" you'll find his interview I mentioned earlier.

L Fern Tej your right the articles were very interesting and parts of it amusing. I found personally the "hoping for a dark savoir part" as such.
_________________________
A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!
Marquis de Sade

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#3879 - 02/05/08 08:58 PM Re: Question? [Re: DistroyA]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: DistroyA
I have to say, I was tempted to join the Church of Satan at first. Now I've looked into it, I think I'll just stick to being a Satanist, but in an individual sense. If I feel that joining an organisation is for me, it'll be a Satanic organisation that actually carries on the work of LaVey rather than use his name to gain members, as it seems that the CoS only want people to believe in what THEY believe a Satanist should believe (damn, that's a mouthful), rather than let their members make up their own minds on their interpretation of true Satanism (I hope this doesn't get misinterpreted as letting people interpret Satanism as devil worship, as that is now what I mean).

The only time I'll correspond with the CoS is if I need something like a Baphomet pendant or ritual robes. Unless I can get it elsewhere, that's the only place I'll use for materials.


Yeah, most Satanists I know make their own organization.
FYI, I was actually asking about the FIRST Church of Satan, which is a different bucket of chicken from the Church of Satan.

I was arguing with "Lord Egan" aka John because his people had said something to the affect that Anton LaVey was an unoriginal thief who stole shit from Crowley (as if Crowley wasn't second hand). There whole yahoo group (what their church has become) ganged up on me and began defending Crowley. Then I said the only people ripping anyone off were John and Lilee. Thats when the Lordship himself came out. I used his Churchofsatan.org and Churchofsatan.tv as two examples of obvious rip offs. I don't want to bore any one here...
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Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#3891 - 02/05/08 11:05 PM Re: Question? [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Sven Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
Somewhat relating to this, but why did he stop using the "Lord Egan" persona?
_________________________
A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!
Marquis de Sade

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#3893 - 02/05/08 11:22 PM Re: Question? [Re: Sven]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: Sven
Somewhat relating to this, but why did he stop using the "Lord Egan" persona?
Prolly cuz it was just plain retarded? There's this whole essay by his wife who explains why they "Lord Egan" had to die... I didn't bother reading it.
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#3894 - 02/05/08 11:22 PM Re: Question? [Re: Sven]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: Sven
Somewhat relating to this, but why did he stop using the "Lord Egan" persona?


Only one hand feeding... I had seen this before all it takes is a search... Next time try http://www.google.com ... This was found under death of lord Egan...

Why Egan had to Die

Enjoy the read...

~T~

_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#3896 - 02/05/08 11:34 PM Re: Question? [Re: ta2zz]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
Awe... how tragic. Like Paul Ruben and Pee Wee Herman. Sound like he had no life? I'm dumb.
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#3897 - 02/05/08 11:41 PM Re: Question? [Re: ta2zz]
Sven Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
Actually had some trouble reading it. Which my reason for asking Im not sure if its my dislexica or her writing (I'll say my fault). I took it as it was just time for a change when I read it before I posted and was wondering if I had misread it or not. Probably should have added that in the post, stupid me.
_________________________
A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!
Marquis de Sade

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#3899 - 02/06/08 12:04 AM Re: Question? [Re: Sven]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: Sven
Actually had some trouble reading it. Which my reason for asking Im not sure if its my dislexica or her writing (I'll say my fault). I took it as it was just time for a change when I read it before I posted and was wondering if I had misread it or not. Probably should have added that in the post, stupid me.



LOL! I had a hard time reading her writing too. It's not your fault; unless we're both undereducated and illiterate. I took it as this guy who didn't like himself so he created a new playful personality to be Lord of a grandioso church; and he spent so much time as his new personality that he went kinda crazy, like schitzo, and had a mental break down, and his church all fell apart, and then he had to go into semi retirement. He had all these big dreams... its sad Sven. Its like an Phantom of the Operah; but more "Satanic."
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Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#3939 - 02/07/08 09:18 PM Re: Question? [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Sven Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
I don't know I wouldn't want to do a diservice to "The Phantom of the Opera".
_________________________
A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!
Marquis de Sade

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#3943 - 02/07/08 09:48 PM Re: Question? [Re: Sven]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: Sven
I don't know I wouldn't want to do a diservice to "The Phantom of the Opera".
lol... yeah your right the Phantom sang very well.
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