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#30682 - 10/22/09 11:44 AM Microsoft Windows 7
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
Greetings.

So today was the official launch for Microsoft Windows 7 and I was wondering if anyone plans on picking it up anytime soon? I have three friends who were Beta testers for me and they said it's the most stable O.S. Microsoft has ever put out. I'd appreciate any feedback on the O.S. both positive and negative.

I plan on waiting a few months before making ANY moves while they work out the bugs. There are ALWAYS bugs in a new O.S. regardless of how much Beta Testing is done because it's done in a vaccuum. Introduce it to real world uses and thats when the problems show.

Read more on it at... News Release or go to Microsoft.com I'd imagine...lol


Edited by Wicked Satanist (10/22/09 11:48 AM)
Edit Reason: typo...
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#30684 - 10/22/09 01:05 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Wicked Satanist]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
I'm with you as far as waiting for a few months until they work out all the bugs in a system to buy it. Speaking from personal experience, the only reason you want to be one of the first people to use a new system is if you want to find out what's wrong with the system, discover the quirks and oddities, and/or become some sort of subject matter expert on the new system. All the really cool (re: terrible) quirks aren't found out until after beta.

I would highly recommend to wait about a year until installing it. My job requierd me to test out a system, and it was the most painful process in the world (I averaged about three to four hours of sleep a night). Granted, the system I tested was a bit more complicated than Windows, but the same reasoning applies - unless you feel like discovering all those bugs, wait until all the other poor schmucks have discovered and fixed 'em.
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"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
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#30690 - 10/22/09 07:12 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Wicked Satanist]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

"they said it's the most stable O.S. Microsoft has ever put out."
Isn't that what is always said?

Having ran 98, 98SE, ME, and now XP. When XP first hit the market we were calling it Xtra Problems now years later I must honestly say XP is the most stable operating system from windows that I have ever used. The simple fact that I am running on an install I did about two years ago proves that.

I would not even think about a new operating system until the first service pack is out.

~T~
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#30702 - 10/23/09 09:18 AM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: ta2zz]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Years ago, in my 'digital exploration' days, my first foray into the servers at Microsoft.com yielded something rather interesting, indeed enlightening. Of the 300 or so computers on their network, only 2 of them were actually running Microsoft operating systems. Everything else was some flavour of UNIX, mostly Solaris.

Microsoft operating systems are like fast food; quick, easy, but ultimately bad for you if you need to actually get anything done.
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#30705 - 10/23/09 09:31 AM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Microsoft, my friends, is the crack of computers. If you use Microsoft, you will quickly become hooked and be compelled to buy more and more, each time being told by the pusher that you'll get that "better high" from the new and improved JUNK that they're promoting. You'll ignore the impurities and the latest bugs because you just GOTTA HAVE IT. You're hooked and you'll pay the price for your next fix. You know... the one that fixes the last fix that will hold you over until the next one.

There's a reason Bill Gates is the world's richest man. YOU. Yes YOU!!!!

Put down that drug, my friends and come into the light. Macintoshhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Sorry... couldn't help myself.
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#30706 - 10/23/09 09:56 AM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Jake999]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I have nothing bad to say about the mac. Of course, macintosh OSX is at it's root just another flavour of UNIX. UNIX systems are stable as hell and they generally JUST WORK.
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#30708 - 10/23/09 10:28 AM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Jake999]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Not to mention the upgrades you "have" to install periodically.

When MS puts out enough upgrades and other little "fixes", the software you have installed for other programs has to then put out their OWN updates in order to be compatible. Usually those updates are free, but sometimes you have to pay for the next version of their software. So MS doesn't just make a ton of money for themselves, but also for software developers. It's like a race, and no one can keep up.

Even worse is when you install an update, and something within it fucks up something else you already have installed, like the recent install from MS that messed up Firefox (Firefox actually blocked the file from running--it knew, man, it KNEW!). I installed an MS update a while back that fucked with my wireless software. I had to do a system restore to fix the problem. Fuckers.

I have a beef with Macs, and Apple in general. You can't build your own, it costs a fortune to upgrade hardware, and they're just a bunch of anal-retentive drama queens in general. MS is the lesser of two evils, in my mind, but it's still evil.



Edited by Nemesis (10/23/09 10:29 AM)
Edit Reason: incomplete sentence--clarification
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#30709 - 10/23/09 10:53 AM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Nemesis]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

So MS doesn't just make a ton of money for themselves, but also for software developers. It's like a race, and no one can keep up.

It goes even deeper (into your wallet) than that! It is not only the software developers, but also the hardware manufacturers that get to ride this particular money train. You see, windows in specific and windows software in general employ a strategy known as 'bloat', in which more and more resources are required to perform essentially the same tasks, from generation to generation. You are left needing more and more powerful hardware to run the latest greatest windows junkware, when in reality the functions being performed require much less.

This can be evidenced in suites for linux like openofice, which does the exact same thing as MSoffice while using 1/4 of the resources. Or even in a linux distro itself, like say 'ubuntu', which does everything plus a ton more than xp, has even more visually pleasing eye candy than xp, yet somehow manages to not hog up all the ram and cpu time like a fat lady at a cake eating contest.


 Quote:
I have a beef with Macs, and Apple in general. You can't build your own, it costs a fortune to upgrade hardware, and they're just a bunch of anal-retentive drama queens in general. MS is the lesser of two evils, in my mind, but it's still evil.

There is of course a third option! ;\)
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#30713 - 10/23/09 01:16 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Dan_Dread]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Microsoft is easy. The average person who uses a computer wants easy, and Windows gives it to them. Now, I'm not saying that everything in Windows is easy, but to get the basics down (internet, e-mail, video games, word processing) you don't have to refer back to your sheet of Unix commands.

Macintoshes are more specialized. If you're into graphic design, for example, odds are you have a Mac.

Unix systems are (usually) very stable, but also rather difficult to work with. Occasionally I have to work with a Unix computer (granted it's a bit of an old one, and an esoteric type of unix), and it's vastly more complicated than point-click. I also think the type of Unix I worked with (HP-Unix) was far worse than Windows, but that's more of a Navy thing than anything else.

Our one little Linux computer that acted as a glorified router between the hp-unix system, the Windows XP desktop, and the various pieces of equipment that were designed the first time bell bottoms came into fashion worked the most admirably out of all the all other ones. Eventually, when I get a permanent desktop computer, I'll probably end up using a Linux operating system, or at least have a partition set up to use Windows (for the video games) and Linux (for...well, everything else).
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"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
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#30725 - 10/23/09 11:00 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: CJB]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Sheet of unix commands? :P

You're talking like it's 1995 or something.

Ubuntu linux is every bit as easy to use as windows xp.
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#30745 - 10/24/09 08:46 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Dan_Dread]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
Would it be better in the long run to go to UNIX, Lynix, or other similar Operating Systems? I read there's 5 THOUSAND viruses and or trojans written a WEEk for Windows. I am sure thats why Mac is so huge, the average hacker/moron can't or don't write a virus for Mac Systems.

I would install a different O.S. if it saved a lot of headaches and I were actually still able to run the MMORPG's I enjoy so much. I don't think they're supported by anything other that Windows and Mac unfortunately.
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#30751 - 10/24/09 11:30 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Wicked Satanist]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Oh, there are plenty of viruses for Macs. Apple's premise of "Macs don't get viruses" is a popular misconception, and one which Apple has based a great deal of their computer sales on. Macs don't get viruses because they're more secure: Because when that commercial first aired, no one HAD Macs! So from a hacker's POV, what would be the point of writing a virus that would only attack 10,000 computers?

Now that Macs have become more widely used, sure enough there are viruses aplenty for Macs! There just aren't as MANY of them, which is cold comfort.

Apple quietly admits Macs get viruses

Same with viruses written for specific browsers. Internet Explorer has so many issues with viruses, because it's pre-installed on every Windows PC, and the people who buy them don't usually bother with changing their browser. So they just make for easy exploitation.

If you don't mind sacrificing some of the more user-friendly functions and overall pizazz that Windows has to offer, use Linux.
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#30758 - 10/25/09 01:57 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Nemesis]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
While it is true that for a long time viruses were written almost exclusively for windows, and in fact they still are, it is not entirely for the reasons mentioned above.

Most malicious coders have traditionally targeted windows because they want their 'handiwork' to spread and far and wide as possible, but there are more reasons for this than the widespread use of windows. The key reason is windows filesystem security, or rather, the lack of it.

Viruses spread through execution, and further being able to execute files around them. Viruses are generally able to do what the user can do..ie if you can click on files and execute them, so can it. In a windows environment pretty much everything is open to everyone, which makes for a good festering ground.

The reason you don't see this in a UNIX based operating system (which includes OSx for macintosh) is that the file/user level security is very good. files can not 'execute' each other as a rule, so a virus will generally just sit in one place, unable to spread and generally causing a sense of dissatisfaction to the little nerdface who created it.

As for the matter of the lack of user friendly functions and pizazz in linux, that is a very dated statement. The newer releases of ubuntu or debian or even gentoo can match windows blow for blow and beyond in these areas. The real issue is the matter of proprietary software that exists for windows and windows only. Although any software suite windows can offer is matched and generally bettered by the open source community, people are generally conditioned to want the 'brand names', which is a matter of advertising face time rather than one of quality.
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#30793 - 10/26/09 12:10 AM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Dan_Dread]
Damis Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 60
Loc: England
Microsoft and Apple have basically gone for the same approach of fixing things under the hood, however to me the difference is, Microsoft are fixing theirs because their last OS was pretty bad, whilst Apple's reason was to fine tune their already good OS, (I currently use OS 10.6.1 Snow Leopard).

The problem that I see with Windows 7 is that it still uses the same kernel as Vista, so there will inevitably be many of the same bugs that were present in Vista. The next being that Windows compared to OS X (Mostly a flavour of BSD) and *Nix systems is that is notorious for being a heavy OS, sucking up hard drive space and system resources, running processes that need not be running.

However despite the fact that comparatively Windows has always been an unstable, bloated, insecure piece of Software, people will still continue to use it due to Microsoft's marketing tactics that have been in play since the early 80's. By Licensing it out to multiple computer manufacturers, they were able to effectively market it a lot better than it's competitors. The result being that in this day and age, a great majority of average users run Windows because it is all they know, and of course, it's no secret that people are afraid of the unknown!.

So I would say windows 7 will be much like it's predecessors, however weather it is amazing or a piece of steaming camel shit, it will still survive due to it's sheer domination of the desktop market.
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#31001 - 10/30/09 09:21 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Wicked Satanist]
Disabuse Offline
member


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 220
\:D @ everyone in this thread.

Seriously though, to the original poster. I've been using retail release of Windows 7 Ultimate x64 for the last three months VIA my technet subscription (I get early retail/beta releases before anyone else does due to my working in the field). Microsoft has every right to talk up a big game about Windows 7, because for once, in Microsofts crappy fail history of OS releases, this, Windows 7, IS INDEED the most stable OS release to hit.

Someone mentioned that Windows 7 uses the same kernel as Vista. This is semi-true. The Windows 7 kernel is much more polished over and fluid. Windows 7 operates and functions faster then not only Vista, but also Windows XP. Microsoft took their failed bastard child Vista and greatly improved this kernel for Windows 7. They operate and function on extremely different levels.

Have a dual-core processor? Have 2GB RAM? Then Windows 7 will work for you. I DO NOT recommend doing an install over your current OS, but doing a full clean install. Doing an install over your older version of Windows will more then likely fail, and is where a lot of people are having issues with installing Win7. If you do a clean install (meaning a formatted Hard Drive), Windows 7 installs in about 20 minutes. It installed on a 500gb drive I got for it on my computer in 12 minutes. And yes, when the desktop loaded, I was ready to go. I didn't have to "install" any other device drivers, they were already done.

As far as bugs and crashing. I haven't seen it happen on my computer. The only problem I ran across was Firefox taking 5-7 seconds to open with no addons. Once it was open, it ran just fine.

I haven't run across anything else that these people are in fear of. I've been using retail release everyday extensively for the last three months now (as I work with it and on it). I have even gone to lengths to try and cause it to crash and stress it out, but it prevailed through it.

As long as you have a decent processor, 2GB RAM and can do a clean install, Windows 7 will work better then Vista and XP. If you do gaming, which I think I saw you do, there are tests floating around online that gaming in Windows 7 is actually faster then XP systems with the same specs. DirectX 11 is starting to come around in Win7.

And in case you were wondering, I have fully removed Windows XP from my computers, and replaced them with Windows 7. I have 3 Windows based computers I use, all now running Windows 7. Two other PCs are running Linux based systems.
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#31008 - 10/30/09 11:45 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Disabuse]
Damis Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 60
Loc: England
Ah yes that's what I meant when I said it used the Vista kernel, so far I haven't heard any real major complaints about Windows 7 unlike Vista.

As for a clean install, I agree. Even when the option is available I would say that it's always better to back your data up and then perform a format and a clean install. (Oddly it was advised that Macintosh users install Snow Leopard as an in place upgrade).

From the specifications that you recommended for an install of Win7, it seems like it will work just fine on any recent system since duel core processing and 2GB RAM is the standard in decent machines.

Despite my very limited need for Windows, I will keep an eye out for news on how DX11 turns out.
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#31989 - 11/20/09 07:03 AM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Damis]
Room 101 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Scotland
I recently went “7” from Vista, and I have to say, it’s a nice OS.I still have Vista on this laptop, but my work comp has the “7 professional” package.

The user interface maintains some of the Vista’ish looks, but with few of the Vista pitfalls. I especially like that tab functionality the bottom of the screen; it reminds me of the Mac Graphics...

Anyway, pretty decent summation of the 7’s pros and cons can be found here.
As with most things, it pays to do your research before you invest in a new OS.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8315541.stm
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#32115 - 11/22/09 07:12 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Room 101]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Okay, after seeing this video, combined with the positive opinions I've read on other forums, I've decided that this truly is the ultimate version of Windows to date.

I so want to play with Windows 7 now... \:D
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#32123 - 11/22/09 10:34 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: DistroyA]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Just got a new desktop (the laptop is crapping out on me), and it came with Windows 7. I must say, it is a nice improvement over Vista and XP.

The taskbar takes a bit of getting used to, but is a very nice touch. The start menu is reminiscent of Vista, but if you don't like it, you can change it around. The whole GUI part of it is very nice.

I was also playing around with my music recording software, and it didn't lag nearly as much as before (although that could be due to the hihger power processor).

All in all, I'd say that it is a very nice upgrade. Is it worth getting on your old computer? I'm not sure. It does look and work marvelously on my new computer, though.
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"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
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#32132 - 11/23/09 07:30 AM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: CJB]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
How fast was the startup time? I'd heard it was much less than the previous OS's.
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#32133 - 11/23/09 09:42 AM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Nemesis]
Room 101 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Scotland
You mean booting it up?

If that’s what you meant, then I have to say yes, it’s faster than any other Microsoft OS that I have ever used before.
Despite being extremely “graphical” its overall impact on a computers operating/CPU speed is limited (comparative to Vista, XP).

This being said, if you have a tone of shit on your computer that is initialised during start up (MSN messenger, Steam, Curse Client etc) then it might slow down a tad. But this is the case will all OS’s.
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#32153 - 11/23/09 03:27 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Room 101]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
I'll go boot it up right quick and tell you...bear in mind that this is a fast computer regardless, and I don't have much that happens in start-up.

Power on to "Starting Windows" screen: 0-15 seconds.
Welcome screen at ~50 seconds
Desktop on, able to do shit at ~1:10

So from power button to clicking on my internet button (I automatically connect to the internet) took just a tad over a minute.
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"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
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#32155 - 11/23/09 04:11 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: CJB]
Disabuse Offline
member


Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 220
My system from a cold startup takes about 30 seconds to a usable desktop. I don't have anything in startup though.
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#32288 - 11/26/09 11:12 PM Re: Microsoft Windows 7 [Re: Disabuse]
FlameReborn Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 36
Loc: SPFLD,OH,USA
I have heard a few good things about Windows 7, I haven't read any official reviews on it yet. I tested it on a few laptops at some computer stores and it looked pretty nice.

Aside from that I think I'll stick with my MacBook Pro with Snow Leopard.

-FR

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