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#31012 - 10/31/09 01:43 AM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: School Bully]
FriendlyS Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I'm not responding to the article you posted because I think it has been properly answered by previous posts.

Defying authority is not the same thing as expressing individualism. Authority, if acting rationally, is needed to keep order and individualism can still be expressed under a rational authority because it would not oppress its citizens. Objectivism is strictly against anarchy because of the chaos that would ensue. If Objectivism did support anarchy, then it would state that a military force is unnecessary and I would not have had a reason for my first post. It is because of the fact that Objectivism clearly states why the military is necessary that I thought of my first post because many times, it would seem that the military requires sacrifice. This idea was proven wrong by the other posts as one does not go in to be a sacrifice and does get a lot in return from being a member of the military.

Secondly, I would never (and would never have, even before posting this) feel guilty about joining the military in the future. I too believe that the military is necessary to ensure freedom, even if it did seem altruistic to me at first to serve in it and I would be proud to serve, regardless of the questions I had. I would also like to add that this was merely about serving in the military, not about what the military does as it clearly acts Objectively. I did not start this thread because I thought the military was useless or because I thought those in the military were mindless slaves.

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#31037 - 10/31/09 12:24 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: FriendlyS]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Getting a little back on subject here...

One of the main reasons I don't consider myself a strict Objectivist anymore is because it's so dogmatic. After reading Rand, etc., and interpereting it for myself, I found that there were things that I didn't quite agree with. Looking it up on the internet, it seems that people that dare question aspects of Objectivism are pretty much called heretical. To believe in the possibility (not even to believe, but just believe in the possibility) of "supernatural" forces (various forms of ESP, for example) is enough to get you mocked, ridiculed, and kicked out. Even if you were to rationally explain that while there's little evidence for the existance, there isn't evidence against, either, therefore it is a possibility...

I guess what I'm saying is that even if your philosophy of choice told you that it was wrong to do something you wanted to do and liked doing, that doesn't mean that it's wrong for you. If Ayn Rand or Anton LaVey or whoever said "anybody that joins the military is a slave!" that wouldn't have changed my mind as far as being in the Navy goes. I actually do enjoy this job, and I enjoy it a hell of a lot more than I would being in a cubicle.
THAT would be like slavery to me.
_________________________
~~CJ
"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
-Ayn Rand

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#31043 - 10/31/09 02:16 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military serv [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
[quote=MawhrinSkel]
 Quote:
I think most soldiers I've ever known have fought exclusively for the soldiers around them. They don't give a rat's ass about the political implications of their actions, simply because they don't have any use for it. They have a job to do, and would prefer to do it efficiently, with as little risk of pointlessly risking their lives as possible.


My "rock" was my squadron and the need not to let it or my commander down when they placed their trust in me to get a job done. Some clown barking orders and micromanaging my every effort? Didn't need 'em. I was only told "this is what the problem is. Figure it out and fix it. There was no way I was going to fail. It was my job to see that I didn't.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#31047 - 10/31/09 03:38 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: CJB]
FriendlyS Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Well I consider myself both because I find that much of what Anton LaVey and Ayn Rand wrote were really similar and I tend to find that Ayn Rand covered a larger subject area so in subjects that don't really pertain to Satanism and therefore are not really covered by LaVey (such as the military), I can tend to turn to Rand's philosophy and usually agree. Not that I always do agree because in the end, I'll do what I want, as you said. However, I don't find that Objectivism really calls those who disagree heretical, more than they simply say they are illogical. I have seen interviews of Rand with preachers and she does not seem the least bit disrespectful, she just points out where they are being illogical. As for the supernatural, I think she said it best when told that there is no evidence against it. "One will never be asked to prove a negative." And in no other subject but religion or the supernatural, will one be called on to believe in something that has absolutely no evidence of existing. I could go on but this is not a discussion that should be had on this thread.

However, I do agree with your second paragraph completely. No matter what Rand or LaVey said, I would still support the military and would feel no guilt if I were to ever join it as long as it defends the principles for which I stand. The idea that School Bully has that I'm trying to ease my feelings of guilt for thinking about military service holds no truth because I would feel no guilt even if it went against my accepted philosophy because I will not change my ideas to fit the philosophy I agree with the most. The idea I had with this thread was really just to see if Satanism and Objectivism could support military service, not to convince me of if I should or shouldn't agree with military service because I already have my thoughts on that regardless of what is said on here.

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#31409 - 11/08/09 08:38 AM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: FriendlyS]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
Note: I havent read though every post on here but thought I should add my two cents in any case.

 Originally Posted By: FriendlyS
Why would one choose to protect their country and individuals that they do not know over protecting themselves by not being part of such an organization? Really, this does not seem to be a Satanic choice in that it puts one in harms way and goes against self-preservation, the highest law.


I dont think self-preservation really is the highest law. Im not sure if objectivism clearly states that but that should be beside the point really. I think there are at least one more force often more powerful than this and that is preservation of the genes. Parents will do anything for their children and most would die if that would make sure their children thrived. I am not a father but I want to be eventually and Im sure I would rather choose death for myself rather than watch my child die.

The second point is what Nietzsche would call will to power. That is essentially the thought that people do put self-preservation on the line for the ambition to reach the highest possible level in life. In Nietzsches case this was a way to descibe every process in the universe which of course mean some forces to be active and others reactive depending on who's will to power was the strongest (will here of course means nothing like the human will).

I think alot of people fight for their country to make sure its a safe place for their family and close ones and even to make the country itself bloom. As I see it, and as any satanist probably sees it if he/she has given some thought about it, is that egoism doesnt mean that one can never do things that the masses gain from.

I think altruism in essence is impossible because people never ever act so that it is "harmful to themselves but benefits others". While something may be harmful to the body it probably isnt to the mind. If someone really does something he or she doesnt recieve any gain from at all (physical or mental) it is probably regarded as slavery not altruism because to act like that one really has to be forced to do so.

So I actually see egoism as what drives every human and other animal forward in alot of cases and I think this might also be why we can sacrifice ourselves to save out offspring. We dont want to live with the knowledge that we killed off our own children or made heir lives a living hell. And the "I" in ourselves actually continue on with our children in one way or another. Our children are a part of us and its only natural to care for them.

And of course in Satanism we have the thought of treating others as they treat you and if one likes the country one lives in and it has given positives to the individual then one should give something back.

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#31414 - 11/08/09 01:37 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
As for humans, we are far less predictable. We can decide we'll sacrifice ourselves for someone whose genetic makeup isn't even remotely like ours. This is unheard of in nature. In humans, it is often praised. Among Satanists, I guess it could be interpreted in any number of ways.


Well, it isnt really unheard of in nature though. Parents in the animal kingdom do protect "weak offspring" as well. Sometimes occationally and sometimes as a rule of thumb - or actually they protect every offspring not just the "strong". It even happens that some animals take care of other animals offpring. Though that is probably pretty rare but it does happen. Humans are not the exemption that confirms the rule.


 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
The whole "Do unto others as they do unto you" is something I've always had a hard time with. The problem with it is that if we live our lives according to it we are sorely disappointed when someone doesn't adhere to it.


Well, this as well as the christian equivalent of course have maor flaws and I wouldnt ever live my life according to either of them. But then again Im not a satanist and Im not a christian either. My big problem with Satanism is also reflected in the "do unto others as they do unto you" namely that it most often is a reactive way of life. For me the only escape was to break free of labels which has benefitted my thinking greatly. Of course thats a personal choice and a personal need but I always feel like Im caged once I try to put a label on what I am and what I stand for.

More related to the topic on hand it would indeed be stupid not only for an individual to only live by "do unto others as they do unto you" but also for a whole country to act like this. There are way more reflections and strategies that needs to be emplyed than just to answer back with the same thing. It really is a choice of being stupid and only react or at least try to do something smart about it.

But then again I doubt most Satanists actually take the "do unto others as they do nto you" as something to always live by. Taken to an extreme you really cant live like that as it would mean you could never take the initiative for anything.

 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
Being grateful and loyal to your country is something I have mixed feelings about. I have every reason to be grateful to a country that has taken care of me since birth, on the face of it. However, I don't like being beholden to anything or anyone, so if I was pressed, I'd say I fought because I had said I would.


Well the relation of country contra individual is of course a tough one. The bond is closer than anyone thinks but many people dont feel it because its there at all times. Its like when there is dust in the corners. If you leave it there suddenly you dont notice it.

The thing is, you dont like to be beholden to anyone but your country, I assume, is beholden to you at all times pretty much. And if it isnt your strive should be to change that. If everything is good one should fight for the country that does give the individual these benefits. I think in alot of ways, moreso today than ever perhaps, out country provides so much for us that we dont think of. I can only speak of my country but if I get sick I can get good health care that wont cost alot at all, if I loose my job we have an institution to help me find a new one and I get a certain % of my former sallary while Im looking for a new job etc. The safety net is everywhere and the country will so often serve my basic needs that it should be worth fighting for.


Now I may look like a hypocrite because I never did any military training. When I had the chance I actually had a choice and I choose not to. At the time I didnt care alot for it but as I mature I can say I wish I had tried it out like most men do (and more and more women by each passing day).


Edited by TheInsane (11/08/09 01:38 PM)

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#31416 - 11/08/09 03:13 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
As a short intrusion, I more or less follow the golden rule to an extent...basically, "Do unto others as you would have them do to you...up until they shit on you, then fuck 'em up."

If I make an acquaintance, I'll be nice and kind to them, and will continue to do so until the point where they do something bad. If they ignore me, I just shrug and ignore them. If they do worse, than I'll retaliate in kind.

Expecting people to return kindness with kindness typically works nine times out of ten, especially for strangers. For the most part, if kindness isn't returned, the other person just ignores you. In that off chance that someone is shitty to you, well, yeah, your kindness was wasted, but if nothing else you come out of the other side knowing more than you came in with. "I treated Bob with kindness and respect. Bob was then a dick to me. Fuck Bob if he ever comes to me asking for a favor."

As for self-preservation being the highest law or whatever, as you pointed out, that's not always the case. The most basic, primal value one has is ones own life. If you do not value your life, than you can't really value much of anything. Part of valuing your own life will lead you to self-preservation, however, there are things (like your children, other relatives, friends, or even abstracts such as your ideals) that you may value more than your life.

There is neither anything wrong nor right with that. It simply is. If your value of your own life is so small that you would sacrifice yourself for someone you don't know or for an ideal you don't believe in, than your sense of life, and your sense of self-preservation, are rather low. If you sacrifice your life for something you value more than your own life, than it's not really a sacrifice, but a trade. If you value your life higher than anything else in this world, than (logically) self-preservation would be your highest sense.

I don't think I would get along well with someone who didn't have anything they would die for, but that's not to say that they don't have their own right to live like that.
_________________________
~~CJ
"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
-Ayn Rand

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#31417 - 11/08/09 03:14 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
Good answer and I agree with alot of the points you make. I dont want a society to breed leeches and dont want a socitey that not only helps but in alot of ways even encourages weakness.

However, I dont know if there is any one single society to this day (and I may be wrong here, I am no historian) that acually had a system where everyone was allowed to rise to the level they were capable of. Today we may help the weak, in many cases without any good reason ater years of them feeding off the system. However in other societies you are born into a certain area of life that you cant get out of which of course is also an approach that isnt something to strive for.

What democratic societies have brought to the table are the ability to actually rise against the tide or against where you came from and be something more. This is a big simplification of course but you know what I mean. And Im not saying democracy is the big savior or anything like that. I actually find the basic premise of democracy quite idiotic. Whoever came up with that the most popular idea should rule (judged of course by the masses who arent know for making the best descicions) instead of the best working idea.

And to be honest even if strength should be encourged I wouldnt want to live in a society with no health care or no job-security where everything would be about just surviving and getting to the top. I mean satanists usually talk about true human nature and as I see it what made humanity so dominant was the ability to strengthen not just the individual but also the community in one way or another. If we were left exclusively to ourselves we would probably not thrive at all. In this case I feel some satanists can only exist and actually gain from their ideology if there is a society they can be individual towards. Because if their values would be set as guidelines for all of society not only that society but also the indivdual satanist would eventually end up in a very bad position. But then again some satanists acknowledge this and tells us like it is. Its not about building a society it is about using it.

And along comes another point. How many satanists actually live by their own word? If you get sick do you go to the hospital? I bet you do, or pop a pill to make the ache go away. Its not so hard to speak for an ideology that encourages strength and debates that we should not support weakness when the one saying it still has full access to all the help he or she can get from society.

Im sorry if I sound like I dismiss all satanists and Satanism in general. I really dont but this was always something I gave alot of thought.

And a final point. lot of satanists I met were liberal or capitalist in their political orientation but I, as a person who likes to wear green when it comes to politics, sees how this sucks the life out of the earth. While communism is bad in their extreme I think capitalism is equally bad but in a whole different direction. Communism tries to make everyone the same without much individual distinction. Capitalism, at least intheory, provides tools for the individual to thrive but does so at the cost of nature itself which in the end makes not just others but also the actual individual feel worse. What was it Anton LaVey wrote? Only sick animals have filthy homes (not an exact quote)!!!


CJB

Good post! I agree with it wholly.


Edited by TheInsane (11/08/09 03:17 PM)

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#31418 - 11/08/09 04:01 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: FriendlyS]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
 Quote:
So the dilemma I see is: do Satanism and Objectivism require the existence of altruistic persons for protection of their rights?

Does an already well-established religion need altruistic persons to spread the(ir) word in an already familiar place?

Satanism and objectivism can, might, have the ability to,.. be views of life. Man has it's rights, and if they are not officially written down then they are the unspoken words which a healthy human follows to maintain a certain degree of dignity/civilisation.

 Quote:
While I respect what the military does for us greatly, I still can't help but feel that since these people risk their lives to protect our rights as individuals, this seems to me that it is, in essence, an altruistic behaviour. Why would one choose to protect their country and individuals that they do not know over protecting themselves by not being part of such an organization?

When joining the army it is common to say you are "protecting your own country". In a war you are actually fighting for an ideology or for people who you "believe" in or you came to respect/rely on( like your squad members as Jake said). During a war you are fighting for YOUR life (or others as mentioned in previous sentence for this reasons), when the trigger is being pulled and a few dozens of bullets are passing next to your ears you are (next to carrying out missions) fighting for your life.

The fact in military is that if you actually choose to join is to defend the things you believe in. A lousy military would be one who has got nothing to loose or has nothing to belief in.
Well not entirely lousy, he or she would still be good cannonfood to keep the good-ones alive.

To defend what you believe in can be seen as a form of self-preservation. If someone believes in the power of money and therefor joins, fine; if someone does it to defend his personal honour, fine; even if someone does it because he/she thinks it is fun, fine. The only thing that matters is the view someone is carrying.


"do unto others as they do unto you"
Fuck the rule as long as I'm not bothered. But I guess it depends on the view, situation and personal reference system of honour, dignity and morals.


Edited by Dimitri (11/08/09 04:08 PM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#31448 - 11/09/09 11:11 AM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
I can see how my post may have been hard to decipher. I did answer your post but also took examples of satanists in general (mostly meaning the LaVeyan kind).

I am just curious to see how the people who advocate strength and think the weak shall perish would actually build their society. And if no society is to be built upon these values why complain about the one that exists if there is no thought of remodeling it?
And what would be considered "strong" or "weak"? A highly subjective way to value a person except if its just about survival but I think mankind is way past the point of having to judge on the basis of survival. Especially in most of the civilised world.

The thing is, if one complains about society and the leeches it creates and/or feeds how can one justify him/herself doing the same thing? That is feeding on this same society and using the advantages it gives the individual even though he/she is against it (and those who leech on it)?

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#31450 - 11/09/09 01:50 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military serv [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
FriendlyS Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Toronto, Canada
To CJB:
For preservation being the highest law, I didn't mean it as the ultimate law. Of course there are other things that one would probably be willing to die for. There are certainly some family members I would die for and as I said before I would be willing to die for my country unless of course I begin to disagree with what the country is doing or why they have gone to war. But I do believe that self-preservation is the highest law in the sense that one should work to keep themselves alive and should value their life more than a random person's life or even the lives of a random collection of people. Therefore, when one does make the decision to die for someone or something, that someone or something is incredibly important and worthy of your life.

To MawhrinSkel:
I can agree with your points because from what you are saying about your government's system, it seems to be similar to the one in Canada. Many benefits are offered to everyone including free health care, welfare, and different types of employment insurance. Most often, those who take advantage of this are the leeches who instead of finding a new job are happy with getting a cheque for 60% of their old salary for doing absolutely nothing all day. And why would they bother to get another job if they don't have to pay to go see a doctor and if the government gives them housing? I have known people who have taken advantage of the system just because they can and these types of people are the ones who should not be given the help.

On the other hand, there are times when these things are useful for those who are contributing members of society but have been fucked around a little and need a helping hand in order to more easily get back into the game, so to speak. As I have known abusers of the system, I have also known those who, because of some bad luck, have needed the help of the government, have gotten it, and used it to move forward and continue on with their lives. These are the kinds of people whom the system is in place for and should remain in place for. After working hard and paying taxes, one should be entitled to a little bit of help from the government when having problems if they do not take advantage of the help that is offered and only use it for as long as they really need it.

So, I do agree that these leeches should be done away with, but the system itself can be useful and should be there to help those who contribute to it regularly and need a helping hand once in a while in order to continue being contributing citizens.

As for, "A physically weak person isn't necessarily weak. Neither is a dumb person. Nor an insane one. Most people have a degree of worth. Play to their strengths, and they can be useful. However, you can't draw power from a plant which refuses to run."
I couldn't agree with that more. A weak person is one who needs everything to be handed to them and is not willing to work for their own survival. Humans did not evolve and survive by purely being the physically strongest. An example of this is how our canines got smaller rather than larger as we evolved. Not to say that physical strength isn't needed because we obviously didn't survive and evolve purely by outsmarting every other living thing. For survival, both are needed and a pack or tribe as you say is perfect for bringing together those who want to survive and contribute and using all of their strengths, be they mental or physical. Those who do not wish to contribute to the tribe but merely take from it in order to survive are the ones who should be left alone and removed.

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#31456 - 11/09/09 04:02 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: TheInsane]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane

However, I dont know if there is any one single society to this day (and I may be wrong here, I am no historian) that acually had a system where everyone was allowed to rise to the level they were capable of.


Nope, sure hasn't. Early America was probably the closest you could get with that, but any socio-political system is going to have its drawbacks. Laissez-faire capitalism would probably be about the best you could get with that, but it's a utopian system, and will likely never see the light of day.

 Quote:

What democratic societies have brought to the table are the ability to actually rise against the tide or against where you came from and be something more. This is a big simplification of course but you know what I mean. And Im not saying democracy is the big savior or anything like that. I actually find the basic premise of democracy quite idiotic. Whoever came up with that the most popular idea should rule (judged of course by the masses who arent know for making the best descicions) instead of the best working idea.


Well, there are different kinds of democracies, as well. The U.S. is a constitutional republic, which means that the government is (theoretically) limited in what it can do, and the people have their popularity contests. Ancient Greeks had pure democracy, where everybody could vote on everything, majority rule. At least now most democracies don't let 51% enslave the other 49%, although the poor or working class masses exert a much larger amount of control over the upper class than they should.

 Quote:

And to be honest even if strength should be encourged I wouldnt want to live in a society with no health care or no job-security where everything would be about just surviving and getting to the top. I mean satanists usually talk about true human nature and as I see it what made humanity so dominant was the ability to strengthen not just the individual but also the community in one way or another. If we were left exclusively to ourselves we would probably not thrive at all. In this case I feel some satanists can only exist and actually gain from their ideology if there is a society they can be individual towards. Because if their values would be set as guidelines for all of society not only that society but also the indivdual satanist would eventually end up in a very bad position. But then again some satanists acknowledge this and tells us like it is. Its not about building a society it is about using it.


Why wouldn't there be health care in a Satanic society? None of the doctors would come over or something? Why would there be no job security? Would all the bosses just randomly fire people, no matter what kind of job they're doing?

You're not imagining a society of Satanists there, you're imagining a society of assholes. I would be more than happy to pay you wages every week if the work you did for me was good.

Being a bit harsh here, but if you got rid of all the free shit that people can get when they go to the doctors, and people had to pay for everything, then the overall cost for stuff would go down, and would benefit everybody except for the dirt poor people. And these are people that don't even have friends or family willing to help them out. And even those types of people might get some help from charities or churches, or begging for change on the side of the road. If they can't even expend that kind of effort, then fuck 'em.

 Quote:

And along comes another point. How many satanists actually live by their own word? If you get sick do you go to the hospital? I bet you do, or pop a pill to make the ache go away. Its not so hard to speak for an ideology that encourages strength and debates that we should not support weakness when the one saying it still has full access to all the help he or she can get from society.


Huh-what? Did I miss the sacred oath-taking, where I swore to Beelzebub that no longer would I pay for anything, but make everything for myself and do everything for myself? By that logic, going to Wal-Mart (or any grocery store...or any store!) is hypocritical. I guess that does explain why I jerk off so often, though.


 Quote:

And a final point. lot of satanists I met were liberal or capitalist in their political orientation but I, as a person who likes to wear green when it comes to politics, sees how this sucks the life out of the earth. While communism is bad in their extreme I think capitalism is equally bad but in a whole different direction. Communism tries to make everyone the same without much individual distinction. Capitalism, at least intheory, provides tools for the individual to thrive but does so at the cost of nature itself which in the end makes not just others but also the actual individual feel worse. What was it Anton LaVey wrote? Only sick animals have filthy homes (not an exact quote)!!!


Oh, the many ways I can make fun of green people...that would take an entirely different topic. Might work on that eventually.
_________________________
~~CJ
"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
-Ayn Rand

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#31470 - 11/09/09 05:55 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
FriendlyS Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I would have to join you and CJB if you were to ever make such a society. The only thing I would have to say should be free is emergency life-saving health care. But only if one were unable to afford it. And they should eventually pay for it. So more like a health care loan I guess.

And I have to admit, I didn't really read all of Thelnsane's response before but after CJB's response, I took the time. Why the hell would nothing like health care exist? Doctors would still need work and people would still be willing to pay someone to cure them. It's called a service and it would exist in a completely capitalistic and Satanic society. Doctors have to make money too right? And why would a Satanist refuse treatment? How does not doing anything about an illness fit in with survival? I'm sure that if any animal had the knowledge about illness and drugs that humans do, they would use it to their advantage.

As for Thelnsane's comment on capitalism, how does it go against nature? Using one's abilities to their advantage and to come out on top is exactly what capitalism allows and that is completely natural. As CJB said, you're imagining assholes, not capitalists, and not Satanists.

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#31491 - 11/09/09 07:34 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: FriendlyS]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Just to jump in here a moment....

What? like Satanists can't be in the medical field?
Satanists can't be Doctors or Nurses or Techs?

Do you realize that there are Satanists who are in the medical field on this board, and if shit happens, you will need us to stitch up your sorry ass in your little utopia.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#31502 - 11/09/09 11:04 PM Re: Satanic & Objectivist dilemma of military service [Re: Morgan]
FriendlyS Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 39
Loc: Toronto, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Just to jump in here a moment....

Do you realize that there are Satanists who are in the medical field on this board, and if shit happens, you will need us to stitch up your sorry ass in your little utopia.

Morgan


Just to clarify if this was aimed at what I said, health care and doctors would most definitely exist in the utopia. It was Thelnsane who somehow got the idea that we find health care and medicine "unSatanic."

If I misunderstood and you weren't directing your response at what I said then just ignore this and my apologies.

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