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#30871 - 10/27/09 09:43 PM BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
Originally aired on BBC on Thursday 22 October 2009.
Since this has been confirmed to be viewable outside the UK (for now, until the BBC get it pulled), I've decided to embed this controversial debate (you may need to close some ads):








Meq

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#30920 - 10/28/09 10:32 PM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: Meq]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Cheers for posting that Meq. I've been meaning to watch it in full on iPlayer, and kept forgetting.

And it seems my work friend was right; they really did rip into Griffin. Highly amusing, as I despise the BNP.

If my Socialist friend is correct, I wonder how long it really will be until race-hate crimes start elevating because of this episode of Question Time...
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"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#30927 - 10/29/09 01:37 AM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: DistroyA]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Wow...I almost wish I were British now so I could mercilessly make fun of the BNP to people that would actually know who I was talking about. Social conservatives just don't seem quite as entertaining to make fun of anymore...
_________________________
~~CJ
"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
-Ayn Rand

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#30955 - 10/29/09 09:00 PM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: CJB]
Damis Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 60
Loc: England
I just prefer to laugh at all the idiots who tag the BNP as far-right.. they probably see an element of potential racism and the aspect of nationalism, and then see red and scream Fascism. The BNP's main policies include economic control, protectionism and a focus upon big industry, all of which are at least in Britain, left wing policies.

In fact their whole ideology as portrayed on their website is quite similar to National Socialism, Socialism with an element of Nationalism.. however even the nature of their Nationalism could be argued, since no seemingly Imperialistic views are present, the desire for independence from the EU and continual emphasis on self sufficiency both economically and culturally would suggest Left wing Nationalism, similar to that seen in Zimbabwe. The anti-capitalist propaganda that regularly gets plastered on their website is also a good clue to their disposition on the political spectrum :P.

Point being, I would call the BNP far left rather than far right.
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#30957 - 10/29/09 09:11 PM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: Damis]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
People have always seen fascism and attributed it to the far right. Fascism has meant different things, but the originial fascism was Mussolini's party, which he also liked calling corporatism. While the racist/ultranationalist aspects of fascism aren't to be ignored, their economic theory is quite similar to liberalism. Way Far Right to me would more logically point to paleoconservatism (re: Ron Paul) than fascism, but then maybe that's just me.

The really awkward moments are when you're looking at someone that holds ideals that you completely despise, and you find similar interests. I certainly can't speak for a British citizen, since I'm not one, but wanting to be completely politically independent of the EU wouldn't seem like a bad idea to me, nor would economic self-sufficiency. However, I would know better than to vote for someone who touted those as goals out of one side of his mouth and then spout the rest of his rhetoric out of the other.
_________________________
~~CJ
"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
-Ayn Rand

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#30958 - 10/29/09 09:36 PM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: Damis]
School Bully Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne


I think it was Nietzsche who once said that socialism was Christianity for those who don't believe in God. The reason the BNP is so despised by the left, just as the Nazis were, is not because they are "rightists", but because they are heretical "leftists". We all know how Christians treat their heretics.

Nick Griffin is nothing more than Britain's politically correct Emmanuel Goldstein and this show is just a Two Minutes Hate programme.

The programmes of the Two Minutes Hate varied from day to day, but there was none in which Goldstein was not the principal figure. He was the primal traitor, the earliest defiler of the Party's purity. All subsequent crimes against the Party, all treacheries, acts of sabotage, heresies, deviations, sprang directly out of his teaching.

So it's not surprising that the really gullibly stupid will attribute race attacks to Griffin's appearance.

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#31033 - 10/31/09 11:51 AM BNP On Question Time.
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
As anyone in the UK is already well aware the BNP where on the BBC TV show Question Time. For those that are unsure I'll give a quick crash course.

The UK political system is based around over 300 MP seats each elected for by a small constituency, normally the size of the average town (meaning cities often have more than one MP). These MP's make up parliament, the party with the most MP's forms the government, and their leader becomes the Prime Minister.

There are three main parties, Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrats. There are also a few minor parties that get between 8-2% of the popular vote, enough that they occasionally win a few seats. These include Green, Sinn Fein, Plaid Cymru, Scotish National Party, UKIP, UK Libertarians and The BNP (British National Party).

The BNP are often referred to as the British Nazi Party in the media as they are frequently racist and many of there policies are strictly white supremacist. Unfortunately they are gaining support in UK at present, they gained 2 out of the 72 seats that the UK is granted for the European Parliament, making them at least a small influence. It is currently believed that the BNP are the 4th most popular party in the UK having, according to polls conducted by the Guardian and the BBC, aprox. 10% of the popular vote, which is the most the BNP has ever had.

With the BNP becoming so popular, they became the second minor party (after UKIP) to be allowed to speak on Question Time (they normally have a representative of the three main parties and two 'academics', ie. Doctors, Lawyers, Historians, Police Chiefs. It's always a panel of five speakers). A parliamentary discussion program on the government funded BBC. The only criteria one must have to be invited on Question Time is to meet a minimum requirement of votes in the last general or European election. The leader of the party Nick Griffin was invited to speak as their representative.

This cause a controversy, there where people blaming the BBC saying that the licence payers shouldn't be forced into giving the BNP a pulpit. Protests started and violence broke out. With Nick Griffin being a UK representative of the European Parliament he's granted government protection but even with that he is forced to hire private bodyguards. This protest got out of hand injuring 6 police officers and putting 2 in intensive care. (I've not heard any more of this, so those numbers could be higher).

After having heard the parliamentary discussion I feel Nick Griffin did a mixed job. He couldn't dodge some of the questions and was made to look quite the racist however he made some good points and may have got some decent exposure. Now, I do not support the BNP and never will. They are irrationally racist and despite a few good policies on the Middle East, political correctness and the odd good point about immigration. They still seem abhorrent to me, however I could understand if someone sympathised with the party.

So what I'd like to ask is, do people here think the BNP should have been allowed to speak? Do you feel the BBC as a public service should have banned them as many private TV channels already have? Should the BBC be forced to remain neutral? Did Nick Griffin make good use of his time on the show? Has his appearance hurt his party or helped it? Is there place for the BNP in modern politics? Was the protest justified? Was the protest a foolish reaction that makes the BNP look like the good guys?

I'd love to hear the opinions of you guys.

For those who haven't seen it I'll link to the show on YouTube, it's in 6 parts, each 10 minutes and Nick Griffin dominates the show.

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iKfrY9l2kY
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNVB43xfBRY
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlQFvKgPSC0
Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQE0QPFoLfs
Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX2h1A6rk6Y
Part 6 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slya8UVaQjk
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#31034 - 10/31/09 11:54 AM Re: BNP On Question Time. [Re: TornadoCreator]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Sorry for the double post. I did search through the forums before posting this, and saw nothing on this subject. I've since found that there's already a discussion on this topic at...

http://www.the600club.com/topic30958-1.html

If a mod would like to close or merge these threads, sorry for the mix-up.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#31038 - 10/31/09 12:34 PM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: School Bully]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Hmm...I was just thinking...
One of the BNP's goals is to get out of the EU...so correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the only elected BNP officials actually in the delegates (or whatever...not too terribly familiar with European politics) actually delegates to the EU? How do they work that one out?
_________________________
~~CJ
"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
-Ayn Rand

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#31083 - 11/01/09 12:10 PM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: CJB]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
In the same respect the are 14 MEP's from UKIP in the European Parliament and their primary policy is for UK to leave the EU. There is actually quite a large group, I believe about 12% of the European Parliament made up of many different parties from different countries who are unified as the Eurosceptics who believe each country would be better off retaining it's independence. If they gained power, they would dissolve the EU.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#31107 - 11/02/09 02:50 AM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: TornadoCreator]
Perdidot Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8
Thank you (edit: TornadoCreator) for capturing a topic of my curiosity in a way I understood.

Edited by Perdidot (11/02/09 02:56 AM)

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#31109 - 11/02/09 04:45 AM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: TornadoCreator]
Meq Offline
Banned
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
Here is a clip of Mr Griffin which was referenced on the Question Time episode, regarding his meeting the KKK leader and giving a speech about selling their ideals:



 Originally Posted By: Nick Griffin
There’s a difference between selling out your ideas and selling your ideas. The British National Party isn’t about selling out its ideas, which are your [i.e. the KKK's] ideas too, but we are determined now to sell them. And that means basically to use the saleable words... ‘Freedom”, ’security’, ‘identity’, ‘democracy’. Nobody can criticise them. Nobody can come at you and attack you on those ideas – they are saleable.

Perhaps one day, once by being rather more subtle, we've got ourselves in a position where we control the British broadcasting media, then perhaps one day the British people might change their minds and say 'yes, every last one must go ' [that is, non-whites]... perhaps they will one day. But if you hold that up as your sole aim to start with you’re going to get absolutely nowhere. So instead of talking about ‘racial purity’, we talk about ‘identity’...


~Meq~


Edited by Meq (11/03/09 04:31 AM)
Edit Reason: Corrected quote

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#31114 - 11/02/09 12:50 PM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: Meq]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
That was an interesting watch. It seemed like Griffin was merely on the show as a punching bag rather than an actual participant. But he did hold his own somewhat in the debate and kept his composure rather well.

I don't know that Churchill would be a BNP member if he were alive today but he did also have a certain disdain for Muslims and nother non-white Europeans. Churchill was vehemently opposed to granting sovereignty to India and, by proxy, Pakistan because he felt they were incapable of ruling themselves and because he did not want to oversee Britian downsizing its empire.

When Churchill became PM in 1940, WWII (or at least what would become WWII) had already started. I don't think it made a difference to him that the British empire was under attack by fascist only that it was under attack at all. So it seems rather funny to me that Churchill is viewed by (these)people as a figurehead representing tolerance, equality and anti-fascism.

I was in agreement with Griffin when he was talking of Islam being "vile and wicked" but he shot himself in the foot as soon as he mentioned he wanted England to remain a Christian country. One of his more vocal disputes with Islam was its treatment of women; Christianity doesn't have the best track-record when it comes to that either.

He also shot himself in the foot with that video where he basically said the best course of action is to cover your intentions with euphamisms and misdirection. To his credit that is an application LM but he fails in having his "game plan" recorded on video. Also to his credit, when asked why the people should trust him his response was "Why should the people trust any politicians?" At least that was honest. \:D
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#32302 - 11/27/09 03:02 PM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Gutfood Offline
lurker


Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 3
There is was one problem that I had with the appearance of Nick Griffin on Question Time, and that was how he managed to 'normalize' himself with his time on air.

I'm not sure whether he should have been given the time on Question Time, maybe democracy should mean that we should give every party, no matter of their policies a chance to promote themselves. Or maybe we shouldn't have allowed a party to promote itself that many UK citizens would feel does not equally represent them.

However, as I was saying, I feel Nick Griffin did manage to 'normalize' himself. If you noticed, throughout the show he had a habit of nodding and smiling. No doubt all the newspapers the next few days had pictures of him smiling. So, to the person who isn't too familiar with Nick and BNP, what do they see? They see, what looks to be, a nice guy.

Now, I am not saying that's enough to dramatically increase their vote and public support, but it does help them.

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#32312 - 11/27/09 10:28 PM Re: BNP Nick Griffin on BBC Question Time [Re: Gutfood]
Room 101 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Scotland
The guy is an ass. No other term for it...ass suits the bill.

Oxymoronic statements regarding race and equality seem to generate a great deal of passion amongst the proletarian, but with the mildly educated, only a sense of hatred is inspired.

This man and his so called party appeal to the lowest common denominator, idiocy seems to rule the day. Stupidity seeming to be the benefactor in the racist little cunts project plan.

FUCK the BNP, small minded idiosyncratic fools. Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame, I fear that the reality of you insanity may have already become apparent to the voting masses. Inspiring another generation of half wits to avoid the vote. Your social
intolarence will be the marker that defines your existence.

Fucking nigers, you detract from the working, and imply the negative baggage relivant in every context. You truly are societyse buggest mistake, perpetuation of the moronic, being your only legacy.

FUCK you Griffin, heres hoping your stupidity out lives the viagra you took to screw you own cousin, you racist piece of shit.
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"Nothing is your own except the few cubic centimeters inside your skull." - George Orwell (1984)

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