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#31457 - 11/09/09 04:09 PM Music Divine?
Ankhhape Offline
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Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Hopefully this topic won't get everyone bent like my other thread LOL!

What is the Satanist view on music? What is it? Almost every belief system I come across aligns music with some divine creation.

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#31463 - 11/09/09 04:31 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Nietzsche had it right when he said "Without music life would be hell."

My view on music is that I love it. Music has always been a big part of my life. I find it a wonderful form of therapy. If I am pissed off or depressed I can put on some music that reflects my mood and it helps me.

When I used to skate I would listen to alot of Bad Religion and NoFX. The upbeat tempo seemed to give me an extra boost of speed and also seemed to make it hurt less when I wrecked. Which was often.

I like to listen to music when at work or school because it helps the time pass. When fucking I will turn on something with a good beat and thrust in synch with the beat. I find that the song "Ka-boom Ka-boom" by Marilyn Manson has a great beat to fuck to.

I don't see music as a divine creation but at times music does appear to have "god-like" powers.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#31469 - 11/09/09 05:28 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1551
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Ankhhape
Hopefully this topic won't get everyone bent like my other thread LOL!

What is the Satanist view on music? What is it? Almost every belief system I come across aligns music with some divine creation.

What is music? Music is a human construction of sounds that follow patterns many of which can be found in nature, from the rhythm of falling raindrops to those famous first four notes of Beethovenís fifth. EDIT: Let us also not forget the memory we must retain in some sense of the rhythm of our mothers heartbeat as we are in the womb. Perhaps this is part of the reason rhythm and music seem so powerful and natural. We are beings born to a world of rhythm.

Music seems to have an affect on living animals and I remember older research suggesting plants as well. (Do radishes scream?) This suggests that music can affect all living things in some way. Now as far as reality being sung into existence, humans knowing OM as the sound of the universe or thinking a Satanist might believe music as connected to something spiritual or divine? Are you being serious?

I have not been posting as much of late but I am still reading and following things that interest me. Recently the mentions of frequencies to heal DNA have led me off on my latest knowledge-acquiring spree. As a laymen using commonsense, with the current knowledge that the human body is composed mostly of water I can understand how subjecting the body to different frequencies can have an effect.

Certainly vibrating cells and finding the frequencies that make cells resonate would stimulate something in the cell. Now if thatís a good thing or bad remains to be seen. I would think it would be easier to disrupt proper cell function than to stimulate it into doing something beneficial.

Proper study in a scientific environment is necessary. Amateur study by people with tone generators over the Internet will produce nothing but biased opinions.

Then we have things like this. Subjecting the human body to massive vibrations.

Thatís one way to stimulate all your cells at once with music.

~T~


Edited by ta2zz (11/09/09 05:34 PM)
Edit Reason: Marked
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#31483 - 11/09/09 06:57 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: ta2zz]
CJB Offline
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Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Is music divine? I guess that would depend on your interperetation of divine.

If you see divine as being a sacred and holy thing to a supernatural being (be it God/YHWH, Allah, Satan, Xenu, or Flying Spaghetti Monsters) than no, I would say not. Not a single one of these beings created any sort of music.

If you think of divine as I do (or similar to me, perhaps), which is...well...basically, something divine would be something that glorifies the individual creator (going along the lines of "we are our own gods") than yes, I would say at least some music is divine.

Music that glorifies its creator, either through lyrical content or even just the feeling another can get from listening to the music, than it is quite divine. Back when I was a practicing Christian, the music was the stuff that most touched me. Sure, sometimes the words were conducive to strong feeling, but just the feeling of the music itself would pull at my little heartstrings.

Christian music would, however, typically leave me feeling somewhat sad inside. Sure, it may lift me up while singing/listening to it, but afterwards, it was rather emotionally draining. I guess in this way, I would view such music as profane vice divine.

Now...not too long ago, I went to a Dethklok concert (yes, I'm one of those people), and the raw energy of the music combined with the ability of the players...and (in spite of the cartoony-ness of it) the seriousness to which they devoted themselves to the playing...it energized me while listening/singing along to it, and energized me for days afterwards. In that, yes, the music was quite divine.

It was an expression of an individual (or small group of individuals) that reached out and touched other individuals, and made everyone better for it. If there is to be a "Satanic" definition of divine, I can't think of anything better to describe it.
_________________________
~~CJ
"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
-Ayn Rand

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#31496 - 11/09/09 08:31 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: CJB]
Ankhhape Offline
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Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Thanks for everyone's replies.
I have always liked Robert Fripp's definition of music - "Music is a quality organized in sound"

ta2zz's definition is interesting also "Music is a human construction of sounds that follow patterns many of which can be found in nature" - very Fibonacci like.

Of interest is the Harmonic Overtone Series which supplies us with the 22 notes found in Indian Shruti. This has been found to be the scale temperament of our physical world.

I also found Hans Jenny's Cymatics to be revealing in the sense that vibration seems to give order to chaos, which can be likened to the Egyptian process of Apep/Chaos - Khepri / Transformation - Maat / Order.
Hans Jenny Cymatics

As for the word 'divine' I am sure the belief systems I alluded to were referring to a god / music relation. (e.g. Theosophy's devachan). Personally, I am much more interested in not defining music from this theistic stance.

CJB wrote:
"It was an expression of an individual (or small group of individuals) that reached out and touched other individuals, and made everyone better for it. If there is to be a "Satanic" definition of divine, I can't think of anything better to describe it." - this is a great ideal

It seems to me that music is easily LBM, but can it be GBM or MBM?

Sincerely,
Ankhhape


Edited by Ankhhape (11/09/09 08:35 PM)

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#31498 - 11/09/09 10:21 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Ankhhape, thanks for the interesting conversation regarding the nature of music and its magical properties or uses.

I have been a lover of music since childhood and have never really lost my need for it.

My own musical tastes have changed over the years. I tend to like music which evokes the qualities of another time and which has more or less lost popularity.

I like the acoustic blues which came out of the south during the 1920ís and 1930ís, particularly the sort of blues Joe Bussard enjoys.

I find that I actually like record companyís more than particular artists or songs at the moment.

I like Chess Records from Chicago, Stax, Motown and Sun from Memphis.

I personally feel that the magical qualities in music revolve around evocation of moods, past aesthetic periods and lost worlds, which have disappeared.

I particularly feel this in the work of Charley Patton. His music is so powerful that it can evoke enormous detail about a lost time almost instantly. Whenever I listen to his music I can create fictions about the south of the 1920ís, floods, devil women, booze and hitting the road.

Johnson can do this as well, but Johnsonís vision and the mood he evokes is far more frightening and far darker than Pattonís.

Who is my favourite? Mississippi John Hurt. I almost cried the first time I listened to John Hurt. He is deeply evocative and his ability to influence me in such a way is his magic and my ability to hear him in a unique way which evokes is magical, at least to me.

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#31500 - 11/09/09 10:42 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: ]
Ankhhape Offline
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Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
I too am very fond of the Delta blues and Mississipi Hillstomp, Patton is great as is Son House. I like Fred McDowell and Blind Willie Johnson. McDowell has that one chord trance groove that can be felt all the way back to Africa.

Lately I have been playing a lot of Middle Eastern music (I play fretless guitar) and listening to traditional stuff as well as Azam Ali and Niyaz.

Thanks for the reply
Ankhhape

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#31507 - 11/10/09 12:53 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Yes some great stuff.

I don't know if you find this, but Yazoo tends to put out the best stuff.

I also enjoyed watching Bussard's Deperate Man's Blues and found Clarence Ashley and Uncle Dave Macon through that DVD.

I do like Stax though, Stax is great. Sam and Dave and Otis Redding being backed by Booker T and the MG's is the best.

I like music that sounds aged and out of touch.

Love Isaac Hayes and The Staple Singers. The only good thing left from christianity is the Baptist gospel music tradition.

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#31558 - 11/11/09 09:59 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: ]
Gemini Offline
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Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
I read through this the other day, but I hadn't slept and I didn't feel capable of providing a coherent response to this thread. So, after another night of insomnia, let's try again anyway!

Music, quite simply, is my life. It's my passion, and it's how I make my living. I write music to express every damned thing I feel, experience, or want to. To a greater extent, the same is true when I play a set; if every element of a song doesn't somehow express myself, I don't play it for my audience.

I make these people feel, or at the very least, understand what I'm feeling through the music I play or compose. I've brought people to tears, in both good and bad ways, on the dance floor; in a very real sense, through music, I have at least partial control over others' emotions and/or actions - influence, at the very least.

In that sense, music is an expression of my own godhood.


 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
Let us also not forget the memory we must retain in some sense of the rhythm of our mothers heartbeat as we are in the womb. Perhaps this is part of the reason rhythm and music seem so powerful and natural. We are beings born to a world of rhythm.


Indeed, indeed. All the Universe is one Great Song. Ha.
_________________________
http://www.soundcloud.com/onewingedangel

-Gemini

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#31563 - 11/11/09 02:03 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Gemini]
Fredenburgian Offline
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Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Norway
Music is.. everything.
Without music I would turn grey and eventually go die in a ditch somewhere.
I don`t like all music tho, almost only metal. I barely listen to anything but metal, but if anything else it`s jazz, rock, blues, but never any hiphop-rap-techno-crap, I just can`t stand it.

I find it annoying when people are able to play the music they like loud in say the classroom because it`s only the same thing over and over, and only the "cool kids" get to play their music.
I bet most of the people in my class would turn to open revolt if I were to play some of the music I like.
A bit off track, so back to the topic:

As mentioned, music is my life, I would not have been able to function without it. Metal, good metal, have helped me trough some rough times in my life, and still does.
If it`s divine or not is up to the person who listens to music to decide, I think not, but music holds greatness and represents something unique to the listener, at least often.

Metal forever \m/
_________________________
Rise of the T.R.F, Fredenburg.

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#31569 - 11/11/09 07:11 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Fredenburgian]
Miss May Offline
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Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 66
Loc: sebastopol, CA
My opinion on music is that it can be a release of emotion or it can change the energy in the area it's being played. The type of energy I release or charge my mind with depends on how I'm feeling and what I choose to listen to. If the music doesn't suit my mood I change it. When i play music, I tap into a part of myself that is untouchable by any physical form. I wouldn't describe music's impact on my life as divine because of of the connotations of the word.
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#31571 - 11/11/09 08:38 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Miss May]
Ankhhape Offline
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Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
It seems from many of the replies that music almost acts as a sort of sigilism, triggering subconscious connections created at earlier points.

Of course I welcome everyone's input here, I am looking forward to more of how Satanist philosophy figures in with the structure of music.

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#31572 - 11/11/09 09:27 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
JWG Offline
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Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 68
 Originally Posted By: Ankhhape
It seems from many of the replies that music almost acts as a sort of sigilism, triggering subconscious connections created at earlier points.


I've noticed that although the words that describe the event or sensation each person feels are different in their meanings, approach, context, etc.. they all describe that same feeling.

Whether it be "divine" or a sigil, or hitting deep within the subconscious, "untouchable" by any physical thing. The list goes on and one, but I think we can agree that it is very powerful and potent Black Magic, in LHP terms. Whatever the coined terminology or mental approach; we can't deny its universal power and draw it has on us as humans. Found not only in all of human history, pre-history no doubt, and in the very fabric of the Universe and Nature itself.

Thus, I have a great respect for it; like countless others.
_________________________
In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play.
-Friedrich Nietzsche


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#31573 - 11/11/09 09:38 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: JWG]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
JWG,

Pffft . . . as always, your thoughts echo mine. yet clearer.
What type of Black Magic is music?

I would love to hear Dr. Aquino's understanding of the use of my composition during the Conclave 2009.


Edited by Ankhhape (11/11/09 09:43 PM)

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#31574 - 11/11/09 10:29 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
JWG Offline
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Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 68
Well, I will admit my understanding when it comes to more defined higher or lower black magic is lacking, so I will answer; but first by defining my current understanding of each.

Lower Black Magic- smaller things; like dressing a certain way to cause a specific reaction or outcome (ie: job interview)

Higher/Greater Black Magic- a more deep effect that has a greater result. Something on the larger scale like how Hitler's ideas and actions resulted in Nazi Germany, his growth in power, etc.

Music can be both. Some times it may just simply help others experience a similar emotion put into one's musical art; or it may inspire something larger and grander like a new realization or moral fiber in a large majority of people who hear it.

Just my personal take on it. Again, my understanding of LBM and Higher/Greater Black Magic may not be completely accurate. But my answer is based on the above understanding of each.
_________________________
In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play.
-Friedrich Nietzsche


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