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#32163 - 11/23/09 08:06 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Room 101 Offline
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Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Scotland
Music is audio rendered emotion. It inspires thoughts and feeling that weren’t there before, and amplifies those that were upon listening.

I don’t proclaim to understand “why” it does these things, but I acknowledge that it does do them. But, like most things, I think it is neither divinial nor has it any connection with the divine.

I have a real love of music, and can say with no doubt that my life would be poorer in its absence. My musical tastes run to the extreme end of the spectrum with Death Metal and Thrash being a large constituent of my daily routine. But, I also enjoy classical music, all be it not as often as Metal (mainly because I like to work fast, and classical calms me down).

While it is on a par with art in the sense that it is an “individually perceived” subject by definition, I believe that there is a general consensus regarding what is, and what is NOT music. Regardless of subclass or genre, music is music...but Iit is NEVER divine.


Edited by Room 101 (11/23/09 08:08 PM)
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#32164 - 11/23/09 08:20 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Please give me a break....
Below are your words:

"Setianism, as far as I understand is close to Luciferianism in the sense that they are engaged in enlightened individualism and self-deification through the current of Set. To me this may be the music / musicians who have excelled in their art and craft to such a high degree that they are instantly recognizable and have created their own world / aeon. We would find the virtuosos, and great composers here."

So, you are just talking out of your ass again, and can not come up with any TOS members who are famous musicians.

I don't care if you are a musician, that was never the issue.

My point was you stating things and not being able to back it up.

Don't pick a fight with me because you are unable to answer a direct question.

(On a side note, it really doesn't matter what group a musician belongs to, and I really don't care.)

Morgan
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#32166 - 11/23/09 08:26 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Room 101]
Damis Offline
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Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 60
Loc: England
The dictionary defines the term 'Divine' as,

"Of,from or like God or a god" or "Devoted to God".

Therefore to consider if music is divine or not in the first place, one would logically have to hold at least some form of theistic belief in the existence of god or some form of deity. Therefore I can't see how the question can be contemplated in what is commonly regarded as an atheistic satanic view.

I am in agreement with the others concerning the power of music and the effects it can have on a persons mood. Music is after all sound vibrations which have effects upon the brain.
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#32167 - 11/23/09 08:29 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Room 101]
Ankhhape Offline
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Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
 Quote:
Room101:music is music...but it is NEVER divine.


Is that because you believe there is no divine?
I'm not saying it is divine either, but I am questioning this side of it.

When you say "Music is audio rendered emotion" are you saying that music is emotion transformed into audio? Maybe you could rephrase it for me please.

What do you make of the Cymatics I posted earlier?
Sometimes I am of the thought that music, being vibrations, and vibrations being something that apparently can create order out of chaos, is responsible for everything in our Universe. Not sure if that qualifies it as something divine but it may be the big mover & shaker.

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#32168 - 11/23/09 08:42 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Morgan]
Ankhhape Offline
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Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Please give me a break....
Below are your words:

"Setianism, as far as I understand is close to Luciferianism in the sense that they are engaged in enlightened individualism and self-deification through the current of Set. To me this may be the music / musicians who have excelled in their art and craft to such a high degree that they are instantly recognizable and have created their own world / aeon. We would find the virtuosos, and great composers here."

So, you are just talking out of your ass again, and can not come up with any TOS members who are famous musicians.

I don't care if you are a musician, that was never the issue.

My point was you stating things and not being able to back it up.

Don't pick a fight with me because you are unable to answer a direct question.

(On a side note, it really doesn't matter what group a musician belongs to, and I really don't care.)

Morgan
I'm not in the TOS, so I wouldn't know if there are any famous musicians, though being famous has nothing to do with what I am talking about. That's not the point here, is it?

I took what I thought was a broad definition for a few types of Satanism and tried to see how they might have fit in with certain types of music.

I'm not sure you see what I am trying to get at, perhaps my examples were poor and didn't translate well. Though I actually liked my comparisons.

Danny Carey for instance (Tool) is a Thelemite and uses aspects of Thelema in his drum arrangements, that I find interesting. Others have utilized the Qabalah to compose. Many of the classical composer were Freemasons and used formulas and designs based off their studies. I find that interesting.

So, I'll just make a note here that Satanism and music is just about writing some bad ass evil red dude with horns lyrics, you're going to hell verse?

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#32170 - 11/23/09 08:57 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
You are being a dick.

You made a sweeping statement, and you can't back it up.

Thus, in the future don't make sweeping statements you can't back up.

Reread that above post of mine you quoted with the pole out of your ass/ego.

You will see you are wrong and making this way more bigger than it needs to be.

Morgan
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#32171 - 11/23/09 09:14 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Damis]
Room 101 Offline
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Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Scotland
My opinion on divinity and music is stated above. But an even more concise comment was made after my own. I honestly couldn’t have stated it with anymore clarity if I tried, so I won’t.

 Originally Posted By: Damis
The dictionary defines the term 'Divine' as,

"Of,from or like God or a god" or "Devoted to God".

Therefore to consider if music is divine or not in the first place, one would logically have to hold at least some form of theistic belief in the existence of god or some form of deity. Therefore I can't see how the question can be contemplated in what is commonly regarded as an atheistic satanic view.


As for rephrasing my comment, I won’t. I like it that way, that’s why I typed it. But to elaborate on it...It simply means that music is sound “turned into” emotion. I am of course not being literal in this description, but I do believe that music has the ability to provoke great sensation. Through the use of the term "Music is audio rendered, emotion", I was trying to put across this point in a manner that matched its disjointed logic as well as its subtle though provocation...I was trying to indulge in a little non-literal metaphoric description...I was trying to be fucking eloquent! Ehem...

As for Cymatics, I would argue that its nothing more than exceedingly dumbed down particle physics, Wave form dynamics and Chaos theorem exerts combined and mish mashed together into a nice layman stew.. I honestly wouldn’t put much stock in it.


Edited by Room 101 (11/23/09 09:16 PM)
Edit Reason: Fat Hands
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#32173 - 11/23/09 09:20 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Morgan]
Ankhhape Offline
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Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Shut up Morgan, go derail someone else's thread. There's nothing wrong with how I stated things, you are the only one that has taken issue with it. You don't like how I lumped certain musical qualities or lack of, with certain forms of Satanism, tough shit sweetie.

Back to the discussion . . . So Room101 & Damus, you mentioned emotions and music. This sort of makes music just a tool to transform and transfer emotional content? Could that be all music is? I see you didn't buy the Cymatics idea, I can see your point with it.


Edited by Ankhhape (11/23/09 09:23 PM)

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#32174 - 11/23/09 09:32 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
GillesdeRais Offline
member


Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 141
 Quote:
TOS members who are famous musicians


I heard Mick Mars (Motley Crue) was in the ToS for awhile then left. That's all I can add, other than to suggest to Ankhape that you should never fuck with someone who wears a spiked collar. Just a tip. ;\) As far as the supposed 'divinity' of music, music is mood-engineering, nothing more, nothing less. Whether its Marilyn Manson or Ralph Vaughan Williams, Tool or Handel...
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#32176 - 11/23/09 10:08 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: GillesdeRais]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: GillesdeRais
 Quote:
TOS members who are famous musicians


As far as the supposed 'divinity' of music, music is mood-engineering, nothing more, nothing less. Whether its Marilyn Manson or Ralph Vaughan Williams, Tool or Handel...


Add to this that the musician composes music for the specific purpose OF manipulation, whether he writes it just for himself or he writes it for the mass audience. Unless a musician has a reason to write a composition, what is his motivation to do it? If it's praise of "the divine,", it's the selling of an emotion. If it's the offering of his work (his display of emotion) to the public, it's precisely the same thing, although I would think that the public pays better.

Another aspect is that artists, whether they are actors or musicians, know their audience and play to that strength. An artist who wishes his works to appeal to those who share emotion as a religious or spiritual outlet is going to write music that will be appreciated by his target group. Worked for Handel as well as it does for Tool, 50 Cent or Boxcar Willie.

Music is simply the tool by which they convey their message.
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#32177 - 11/23/09 10:23 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Jake999]
Ankhhape Offline
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Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Thanks Jake, that made sense, not what I wanted to hear, but it made sense, LOL.

What do you say about the binaural beats and sound / vibration's ability to alter physical (and mental / spiritual?) aspects of ourselves?

For instance the frequency 528Hz (part of what was called the Sacred Solfeggios) is known to repair damaged DNA.
Binaural beats and such seem to be able to alter our consciousness, or does it?

Again may I mention the Universe being created of vibration, it would seem to me that the very essence of music is tapping into this 'primordial vibration'. Just because mankind has regulated sound to be this mundane 'tool' doesn't necessarily mean this is what music really is?

Perhaps there could be a deeper, hidden, occult, forgotten truth that music holds . . . or as Morgan so daintily put it, maybe I'm talking out my ass?

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#32179 - 11/23/09 10:32 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
It is what it is. Organisms react. It infers no intervention by any form of divinity, simply that reaction occurs in response to stimulus.

Cancer grows quickly if exposed to a highly oxygenated environment. While some sounds can elevate, others such as those categorized as "infrasound" can cause one to feel ill. Stimulus and reaction. Why try to humanize that which is simply an natural response to a natural stimulus? Why try to deify that which humans happen to recognize as being a manipulable stimulus to obtain a manipulable response?

Monks have long used tonalities in their chants to achieve an altered state of reality in which they feel they are more amenable to communing with "god." The Sufi sect of Dervishes does the same thing through dance, whirling until they reach that altered state, leaning back, "one hand to god, one hand to man." The association with divinity they might feel is as much a matter of stimulus and reaction as the teen who "really gets off on the music." They don't speak the same language, but the sentence translates.
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#32180 - 11/23/09 10:48 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Jake999]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
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Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Oh man! I went from Plato's The Myth of Er, through the Corpus Hermeticum's True knowledge of music, Plotinus' Universal Harmony, Pythagoras' Harmony of the Spheres up to Sufi Inayat Kahn, Gurdjieff and Stockhausen, even lived and studied with Robert Fripp in 1985 . . . just to find out that I've been blowing smoke up my own ass? How terrifying and depressing. I knew I should have been an accountant.
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#32181 - 11/23/09 10:49 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Don't tell me to shut the fuck up.

You are still avoiding the issue.

You made a sweeping statement.
I called you on it.
You failed in backing up your words.

Just like how you stole someone elses information and didn't cite where you took it from.

Whatever, you are an idiot, no matter how much you try to clean yourself up and use big words.

Morgan

carry on......
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#32188 - 11/24/09 12:50 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Morgan]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
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Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Don't tell me to shut the fuck up.

You are still avoiding the issue.

You made a sweeping statement.
I called you on it.
You failed in backing up your words.

Just like how you stole someone elses information and didn't cite where you took it from.

Whatever, you are an idiot, no matter how much you try to clean yourself up and use big words.

Morgan

carry on......
I'll tell you to shut the fuck up whenever I want to. You're being nothing but a clit here. How am I still avoiding 'the issue' . . . what issue? The one that you have subscribed to? I've answered my 'sweeping' statement. What is it you 'need' woman?

My cut & paste of the 'Primordial note' was, as I stated, from my private notes, I should have included the citation, sue me.

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