Page all of 7 12345>Last »
Topic Options
#31457 - 11/09/09 04:09 PM Music Divine?
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Hopefully this topic won't get everyone bent like my other thread LOL!

What is the Satanist view on music? What is it? Almost every belief system I come across aligns music with some divine creation.

Top
#31463 - 11/09/09 04:31 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Nietzsche had it right when he said "Without music life would be hell."

My view on music is that I love it. Music has always been a big part of my life. I find it a wonderful form of therapy. If I am pissed off or depressed I can put on some music that reflects my mood and it helps me.

When I used to skate I would listen to alot of Bad Religion and NoFX. The upbeat tempo seemed to give me an extra boost of speed and also seemed to make it hurt less when I wrecked. Which was often.

I like to listen to music when at work or school because it helps the time pass. When fucking I will turn on something with a good beat and thrust in synch with the beat. I find that the song "Ka-boom Ka-boom" by Marilyn Manson has a great beat to fuck to.

I don't see music as a divine creation but at times music does appear to have "god-like" powers.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#31469 - 11/09/09 05:28 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Ankhhape
Hopefully this topic won't get everyone bent like my other thread LOL!

What is the Satanist view on music? What is it? Almost every belief system I come across aligns music with some divine creation.

What is music? Music is a human construction of sounds that follow patterns many of which can be found in nature, from the rhythm of falling raindrops to those famous first four notes of Beethoven’s fifth. EDIT: Let us also not forget the memory we must retain in some sense of the rhythm of our mothers heartbeat as we are in the womb. Perhaps this is part of the reason rhythm and music seem so powerful and natural. We are beings born to a world of rhythm.

Music seems to have an affect on living animals and I remember older research suggesting plants as well. (Do radishes scream?) This suggests that music can affect all living things in some way. Now as far as reality being sung into existence, humans knowing OM as the sound of the universe or thinking a Satanist might believe music as connected to something spiritual or divine? Are you being serious?

I have not been posting as much of late but I am still reading and following things that interest me. Recently the mentions of frequencies to heal DNA have led me off on my latest knowledge-acquiring spree. As a laymen using commonsense, with the current knowledge that the human body is composed mostly of water I can understand how subjecting the body to different frequencies can have an effect.

Certainly vibrating cells and finding the frequencies that make cells resonate would stimulate something in the cell. Now if that’s a good thing or bad remains to be seen. I would think it would be easier to disrupt proper cell function than to stimulate it into doing something beneficial.

Proper study in a scientific environment is necessary. Amateur study by people with tone generators over the Internet will produce nothing but biased opinions.

Then we have things like this. Subjecting the human body to massive vibrations.

That’s one way to stimulate all your cells at once with music.

~T~


Edited by ta2zz (11/09/09 05:34 PM)
Edit Reason: Marked
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#31483 - 11/09/09 06:57 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: ta2zz]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Is music divine? I guess that would depend on your interperetation of divine.

If you see divine as being a sacred and holy thing to a supernatural being (be it God/YHWH, Allah, Satan, Xenu, or Flying Spaghetti Monsters) than no, I would say not. Not a single one of these beings created any sort of music.

If you think of divine as I do (or similar to me, perhaps), which is...well...basically, something divine would be something that glorifies the individual creator (going along the lines of "we are our own gods") than yes, I would say at least some music is divine.

Music that glorifies its creator, either through lyrical content or even just the feeling another can get from listening to the music, than it is quite divine. Back when I was a practicing Christian, the music was the stuff that most touched me. Sure, sometimes the words were conducive to strong feeling, but just the feeling of the music itself would pull at my little heartstrings.

Christian music would, however, typically leave me feeling somewhat sad inside. Sure, it may lift me up while singing/listening to it, but afterwards, it was rather emotionally draining. I guess in this way, I would view such music as profane vice divine.

Now...not too long ago, I went to a Dethklok concert (yes, I'm one of those people), and the raw energy of the music combined with the ability of the players...and (in spite of the cartoony-ness of it) the seriousness to which they devoted themselves to the playing...it energized me while listening/singing along to it, and energized me for days afterwards. In that, yes, the music was quite divine.

It was an expression of an individual (or small group of individuals) that reached out and touched other individuals, and made everyone better for it. If there is to be a "Satanic" definition of divine, I can't think of anything better to describe it.
_________________________
~~CJ
"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
-Ayn Rand

Top
#31496 - 11/09/09 08:31 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: CJB]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Thanks for everyone's replies.
I have always liked Robert Fripp's definition of music - "Music is a quality organized in sound"

ta2zz's definition is interesting also "Music is a human construction of sounds that follow patterns many of which can be found in nature" - very Fibonacci like.

Of interest is the Harmonic Overtone Series which supplies us with the 22 notes found in Indian Shruti. This has been found to be the scale temperament of our physical world.

I also found Hans Jenny's Cymatics to be revealing in the sense that vibration seems to give order to chaos, which can be likened to the Egyptian process of Apep/Chaos - Khepri / Transformation - Maat / Order.
Hans Jenny Cymatics

As for the word 'divine' I am sure the belief systems I alluded to were referring to a god / music relation. (e.g. Theosophy's devachan). Personally, I am much more interested in not defining music from this theistic stance.

CJB wrote:
"It was an expression of an individual (or small group of individuals) that reached out and touched other individuals, and made everyone better for it. If there is to be a "Satanic" definition of divine, I can't think of anything better to describe it." - this is a great ideal

It seems to me that music is easily LBM, but can it be GBM or MBM?

Sincerely,
Ankhhape


Edited by Ankhhape (11/09/09 08:35 PM)

Top
#31498 - 11/09/09 10:21 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Ankhhape, thanks for the interesting conversation regarding the nature of music and its magical properties or uses.

I have been a lover of music since childhood and have never really lost my need for it.

My own musical tastes have changed over the years. I tend to like music which evokes the qualities of another time and which has more or less lost popularity.

I like the acoustic blues which came out of the south during the 1920’s and 1930’s, particularly the sort of blues Joe Bussard enjoys.

I find that I actually like record company’s more than particular artists or songs at the moment.

I like Chess Records from Chicago, Stax, Motown and Sun from Memphis.

I personally feel that the magical qualities in music revolve around evocation of moods, past aesthetic periods and lost worlds, which have disappeared.

I particularly feel this in the work of Charley Patton. His music is so powerful that it can evoke enormous detail about a lost time almost instantly. Whenever I listen to his music I can create fictions about the south of the 1920’s, floods, devil women, booze and hitting the road.

Johnson can do this as well, but Johnson’s vision and the mood he evokes is far more frightening and far darker than Patton’s.

Who is my favourite? Mississippi John Hurt. I almost cried the first time I listened to John Hurt. He is deeply evocative and his ability to influence me in such a way is his magic and my ability to hear him in a unique way which evokes is magical, at least to me.

Top
#31500 - 11/09/09 10:42 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: ]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
I too am very fond of the Delta blues and Mississipi Hillstomp, Patton is great as is Son House. I like Fred McDowell and Blind Willie Johnson. McDowell has that one chord trance groove that can be felt all the way back to Africa.

Lately I have been playing a lot of Middle Eastern music (I play fretless guitar) and listening to traditional stuff as well as Azam Ali and Niyaz.

Thanks for the reply
Ankhhape

Top
#31507 - 11/10/09 12:53 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Yes some great stuff.

I don't know if you find this, but Yazoo tends to put out the best stuff.

I also enjoyed watching Bussard's Deperate Man's Blues and found Clarence Ashley and Uncle Dave Macon through that DVD.

I do like Stax though, Stax is great. Sam and Dave and Otis Redding being backed by Booker T and the MG's is the best.

I like music that sounds aged and out of touch.

Love Isaac Hayes and The Staple Singers. The only good thing left from christianity is the Baptist gospel music tradition.

Top
#31558 - 11/11/09 09:59 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: ]
Gemini Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
I read through this the other day, but I hadn't slept and I didn't feel capable of providing a coherent response to this thread. So, after another night of insomnia, let's try again anyway!

Music, quite simply, is my life. It's my passion, and it's how I make my living. I write music to express every damned thing I feel, experience, or want to. To a greater extent, the same is true when I play a set; if every element of a song doesn't somehow express myself, I don't play it for my audience.

I make these people feel, or at the very least, understand what I'm feeling through the music I play or compose. I've brought people to tears, in both good and bad ways, on the dance floor; in a very real sense, through music, I have at least partial control over others' emotions and/or actions - influence, at the very least.

In that sense, music is an expression of my own godhood.


 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
Let us also not forget the memory we must retain in some sense of the rhythm of our mothers heartbeat as we are in the womb. Perhaps this is part of the reason rhythm and music seem so powerful and natural. We are beings born to a world of rhythm.


Indeed, indeed. All the Universe is one Great Song. Ha.
_________________________
http://www.soundcloud.com/onewingedangel

-Gemini

Top
#31563 - 11/11/09 02:03 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Gemini]
Fredenburgian Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Norway
Music is.. everything.
Without music I would turn grey and eventually go die in a ditch somewhere.
I don`t like all music tho, almost only metal. I barely listen to anything but metal, but if anything else it`s jazz, rock, blues, but never any hiphop-rap-techno-crap, I just can`t stand it.

I find it annoying when people are able to play the music they like loud in say the classroom because it`s only the same thing over and over, and only the "cool kids" get to play their music.
I bet most of the people in my class would turn to open revolt if I were to play some of the music I like.
A bit off track, so back to the topic:

As mentioned, music is my life, I would not have been able to function without it. Metal, good metal, have helped me trough some rough times in my life, and still does.
If it`s divine or not is up to the person who listens to music to decide, I think not, but music holds greatness and represents something unique to the listener, at least often.

Metal forever \m/
_________________________
Rise of the T.R.F, Fredenburg.

Top
#31569 - 11/11/09 07:11 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Fredenburgian]
Miss May Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 66
Loc: sebastopol, CA
My opinion on music is that it can be a release of emotion or it can change the energy in the area it's being played. The type of energy I release or charge my mind with depends on how I'm feeling and what I choose to listen to. If the music doesn't suit my mood I change it. When i play music, I tap into a part of myself that is untouchable by any physical form. I wouldn't describe music's impact on my life as divine because of of the connotations of the word.
Top
#31571 - 11/11/09 08:38 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Miss May]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
It seems from many of the replies that music almost acts as a sort of sigilism, triggering subconscious connections created at earlier points.

Of course I welcome everyone's input here, I am looking forward to more of how Satanist philosophy figures in with the structure of music.

Top
#31572 - 11/11/09 09:27 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
JWG Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 68
 Originally Posted By: Ankhhape
It seems from many of the replies that music almost acts as a sort of sigilism, triggering subconscious connections created at earlier points.


I've noticed that although the words that describe the event or sensation each person feels are different in their meanings, approach, context, etc.. they all describe that same feeling.

Whether it be "divine" or a sigil, or hitting deep within the subconscious, "untouchable" by any physical thing. The list goes on and one, but I think we can agree that it is very powerful and potent Black Magic, in LHP terms. Whatever the coined terminology or mental approach; we can't deny its universal power and draw it has on us as humans. Found not only in all of human history, pre-history no doubt, and in the very fabric of the Universe and Nature itself.

Thus, I have a great respect for it; like countless others.
_________________________
In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play.
-Friedrich Nietzsche


Top
#31573 - 11/11/09 09:38 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: JWG]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
JWG,

Pffft . . . as always, your thoughts echo mine. yet clearer.
What type of Black Magic is music?

I would love to hear Dr. Aquino's understanding of the use of my composition during the Conclave 2009.


Edited by Ankhhape (11/11/09 09:43 PM)

Top
#31574 - 11/11/09 10:29 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
JWG Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 68
Well, I will admit my understanding when it comes to more defined higher or lower black magic is lacking, so I will answer; but first by defining my current understanding of each.

Lower Black Magic- smaller things; like dressing a certain way to cause a specific reaction or outcome (ie: job interview)

Higher/Greater Black Magic- a more deep effect that has a greater result. Something on the larger scale like how Hitler's ideas and actions resulted in Nazi Germany, his growth in power, etc.

Music can be both. Some times it may just simply help others experience a similar emotion put into one's musical art; or it may inspire something larger and grander like a new realization or moral fiber in a large majority of people who hear it.

Just my personal take on it. Again, my understanding of LBM and Higher/Greater Black Magic may not be completely accurate. But my answer is based on the above understanding of each.
_________________________
In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play.
-Friedrich Nietzsche


Top
#31575 - 11/11/09 10:45 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: JWG]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
In my opinion, music is neither black nor white magic.
Simply because the terms mean nothing in the whole scheme of things.

Music can move and stir the individual's "soul".

It doesn't depend on the type or context (of the music), it is a personal experience that may be shared during a communal experience or felt in the dark alone in your own bed.

This is why during events Queen's anthems can move a crowd to explode, why a lullaby can sooth a screaming child, and why a good group of musicians can jam without knowing where the next notes will come from.

As Ta2zz put it earlier we are born to a rhythm, and when we die, that rhythm ceases.

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#31576 - 11/11/09 11:41 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Morgan]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
In my opinion, music is neither black nor white magic.
Simply because the terms mean nothing in the whole scheme of things.

Music can move and stir the individual's "soul".

It doesn't depend on the type or context (of the music), it is a personal experience that may be shared during a communal experience or felt in the dark alone in your own bed.

This is why during events Queen's anthems can move a crowd to explode, why a lullaby can sooth a screaming child, and why a good group of musicians can jam without knowing where the next notes will come from.

As Ta2zz put it earlier we are born to a rhythm, and when we die, that rhythm ceases.

M

Thank you Morgana,

I wish to ask you your definition of soul?

Top
#31580 - 11/12/09 12:46 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Fuck Fuck Fuck, I knew you were gonna ask me that in a one line post. You are getting really bad with the one line posts lately.

I almost bet money on you doing this.

I think a person's "soul" is in their seat of intelligence.
Their brain.

It is the thing that makes you, you.
Your feelings, passions, rhythms, drives, desires, intelligence, and abilities.

When its damaged, injured, or even aged, you change, and sometimes you may be physically alive, but inside "you & your soul" are gone.


Empty eyes, empty windows, empty people, empty souls, check some nursing homes out if you need further proof.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#31600 - 11/12/09 06:39 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Damn damn damn . . . I didn't mean to type a one liner again!!!
Anyway, thanks for the input everyone.

The Music of the Spheres dates back to the Pythagorean School (600 B.C.) and has its root in the idea that everything in the Universe was created from vibration. Hence, all the planets rotating had a prime frequency it sounded along with an eternity of overtones, all the planets combined create this Composition of the Universe so to speak.

Interesting is the myth of 'The Word' or as I understand it The Primordial Vibration: It has been called the Word in the Judeo-Christian Bible, Hindu Scriptures call it Naad and Shruti, Persian scriptures Sraosha, Kalma in Muslim scriptures, ‘the Sonorous Light' in Buddhism, Naam or Shabd by the Sikhs, in Patanjali Yoga Darshan, the God/dess Ishwara is a Being expressed by this original vibration (Pranav) and Madam Helen Blavatsky and the Theosophists call it ‘the Voice of Silence'.

It is interesting to note the similarities between the above word ‘Pranav' in this case denoting the personification of the Primordial Vibration and the word ‘prana' which is the life force within us.Though the most famous and enduring name we know it as is probably by OM.

From Blavatsky's article entitled ‘AUM' in the Theosophy literature ‘Path' [April 1886 issue p.6, Vol. I], the article mentions the first sound as Aum and describes it as a Divine Resonance, a power that manifests itself into being. This self manifesting power? can be traced back to Ancient Egypt (Kemet) as the Primeval God Amon creates Himself from the black waters of Nun.


In 1965 at Bell Laboratories in New Jersey, two radio astronomers, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, developed a well-calibrated-hypersensitive, 20-foot horn-shaped antenna. The antenna was designed to detect radio waves bounced off echo balloon satellites.

No matter where they pointed this antenna at the sky, they heard the same hum. This was not their expected result. Penzias and Wilson thought they had made a mistake. They even considered the possibility that it was due to "a white dielectric substance" (pigeon droppings) in their horn. Their puzzling findings were published in a famous paper, Excess Antenna Temperature at 4080 Mc/s. Penzias and Wilson were radio astronomers, with expertise in electronics rather than cosmology.

It soon came to their attention through Robert Dicke and Jim Peebles at Princeton that this unexpected noise, this background radiation, had been predicted years earlier by George Gamow as a relic of the evolution of the early Universe. Penzias and Wilson had, in fact, accidentally discovered the Cosmic Background Radiation, the fingerprint of the early Universe, the echo of the Big Bang. In 1978 Messrs Penzias and Wilson were awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics for their discovery.

The Cosmic Background Radiation is a residual vibration from the explosion of the Big Bang, vibrating at a frequency of 4080 Mega Hertz (4,080,000,000 Hertz). All vibrations can be interpreted as sound. Octaves are defined as the lower frequency being half that of its higher frequency. For example, A 3 = 440 Hz and one octave above is A 4 at 880 Hz. Twenty-two octaves below The Big Note (4,080,000,000 Hertz), is calculated to be 972.75 Hz. This is slightly lower than B 4 at 987.77 Hz and somewhat higher than B Flat 4 at 932.33 Hz, in equal-tempered tuning. Therefore, the Universe is resonating at a tone a little flatter than B, as defined by standard tuning.

Physicists think that time began with the Big Bang. Today, just about every scientist believes in the Big Bang model. The evidence is overwhelming enough that in 1951, the Catholic Church officially pronounced the Big Bang model to be in accordance with the Bible. The Tibetan Gyuto Monks perform Buddhist ceremonies while chanting on one fundamental note. Their refined chanting technique enables each member of the choir to sing a three-note chord, exciting the harmonics of the fundamental drone note. A listening to their recording for Windham Hill Records reveals that the monks are droning on a note slightly flatter than B, exciting all the overtones above. Their valve-less brass horns are designed to play this note as the fundamental partial. The Gyuto Monks have been resonating the Big Note for the past 500 years at the Gyuto Monastery in Lhasa, Tibet, now living in exile in Dharamsala, India.

There is no explanation as to why the monks drone on that particular note. Penzias and Wilson's Nobel Prize winning discovery was an accident. The Big Note is an incredible combination of science, art and religion.


 Quote:
"Everything in the Universe is made of one element, which is a note, a single note. Atoms are really vibrations, you know, which are extensions of the BIG NOTE, everything's one note. Everything. The note is the ultimate power..."
- Spider Barbour from Frank Zappa's Lumpy Gravy, Part II © 1968

Top
#32088 - 11/22/09 12:54 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: JWG]
SatanicVeteran Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 11
Loc: San Francisco
Music has always ben associated with the devil.Lucifer after all in the christian mythos was the angel of music before he rebbeled. All things wich give man satisfaction that do not come from the church are diobolical. When one listens to music he/she may get an almost spiritual feeling. the same is true with sex. Nuns reportadly feel an almost trance like state when they say their hail marys. If one can get these same feelings from say an orgams, or a good song. Then surely it is the work of the devil
Top
#32094 - 11/22/09 04:37 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: SatanicVeteran]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
Lucifer after all in the christian mythos was the angel of music before he rebbeled.

The only creature which is considered "evil" or associated with the devil and with a musical reference is the greek figure Pan.

[Pan mostly is shown as a figure with the legs of a goat and the upperbody of a normal human being, with another extremity being the horns on his head. He is the patron god of shepherds and flocks, of mountain wilds, hunting and rustic music.

During the middle-ages his general posture was used to represent the devil.]

Lucifer from latin translates as "carrier of light". And as far as I know, no resemblance or association is being made to music. Unless ofcourse Lucifer receives the image of Pan as a creature and can be linked as such to music.


Might I also suggest maybe reviewing your posts? The grammar isn't that bad in comparisation to others before you, yet the few spelling mistakes bother me a bit.


Edited by Dimitri (11/22/09 04:39 AM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#32108 - 11/22/09 03:19 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Dimitri]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Just for the sake argument:

While scripture doesn't specifically state that Lucifer was the angle of music there are a few references to Lucifer and music that has lead many people to come to that conclusion. I am not going to post the biblical references here, for obvious reasons, but I'm sure a quick google search will suffice.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#32111 - 11/22/09 05:43 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Not all Xitian faiths/groups think music is the devil's inspiration.


http://unityofnewyork.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_Church

They have a music ministry, and even a music note in their name.
I find them to be actually the nicest of all Xitian faiths, and suggest that our psycho Xitian troll join their church to become more tolerant.

The ability to create music is a gift. It's something you are either born with or teach yourself. It is a great ability to be able to share the music in your mind with everyone through a creative process.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#32118 - 11/22/09 07:29 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Then what 'is' Satanic music in its purest forms?
We have Theistic Satanism which might mean music in a very 'anti-Christian' format and would include the many xxxmetal & certain pop / rock bands (lyrics along with their anti-church stances)

Then there is LaVeyan Satanism with emphasis on individualism and self-indulgences. Would this be the Free Jazz of Ornette Coleman and the like? It certainly wouldn't be the xxxmetal with it's rigid song structure and even more rigid rhythm structures. It would be the free form jazz improvisation that embodies the individual and is self-indulgent.

Symbolic / Archetypal (Modern) Satanism, perhaps the likes of Black Sabbath type of bands that merely use the 'image' as a totem and nothing more.

Setianism, as far as I understand is close to Luciferianism in the sense that they are engaged in enlightened individualism and self-deification through the current of Set. To me this may be the music / musicians who have excelled in their art and craft to such a high degree that they are instantly recognizable and have created their own world / aeon. We would find the virtuosos, and great composers here.

Thoughts?

Top
#32121 - 11/22/09 09:16 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"To me this may be the music / musicians who have excelled in their art and craft to such a high degree that they are instantly recognizable and have created their own world / aeon. We would find the virtuosos, and great composers here."

So, can you name any Setianism musicians?


Fuck,it doesn't matter, the listener is the only one who can decide what the music means to them. Whether its holy, sacred, or profane. How it moves them, affects them, or makes them cum with orgastic delights.

Music doesn't define a Satanist, a Satanist defines their own musical tastes.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#32122 - 11/22/09 09:29 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Morgan]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
I wasn't playing favorites here or pitting one school against another as it seems you took it. I would agree to some extent that it is the listener that defines what they are listening to.

I can't begin to dictate to another what is good or bad music to them, but I can point out universally accepted achievements that musicians would agree on that an artist has or doesn't, which may be above said listeners perception.

This would be what I am talking about in the Setian category.

Top
#32127 - 11/23/09 01:05 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Yet, you didn't answer the question.

You should not assume things you can not back up.

So, either back up your statement with names or shut up.

I am getting tired of this habit of yours, you do try to pit one group against the other, as well as dancing around a subject once you are put on the spot.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#32158 - 11/23/09 06:41 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Morgan]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
 Quote:
I am getting tired of this habit of yours
You are, are you?

Anyway, if you need a name the first couple that come to my mind would be Robert Fripp and John McLaughlin. Both are virtuoso guitarists and have followed an enlightened and quite individual path towards creating their own world in which they exist and rule.

Of course these are only 'my' thoughts on this and I could be quite off with them.

Top
#32159 - 11/23/09 06:50 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Yes, I am , but that doesn't matter.

Okay, so they are members of the Temple of Set?

If not, just admit, you are talking out of your ass and be done with it.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#32162 - 11/23/09 07:36 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Morgan]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
They need to be members of the TOS? Were any of the other examples I mentioned part of the CoS or any other group? Why don't you bring them up to? I think it is YOU that has the problem here, not me. I am just talking about stuff, bringing things up, looking for answers, for a discussion. What is your problem, if you don't like this thread . . . don't read it.

I've been a musician for 35 of my 49 years, I might have a little clue as to what I am talking about. My intention was not to fight here, as yours certainly is.


Edited by Ankhhape (11/23/09 08:06 PM)
Edit Reason: Didn't want to go there.

Top
#32163 - 11/23/09 08:06 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Room 101 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Scotland
Music is audio rendered emotion. It inspires thoughts and feeling that weren’t there before, and amplifies those that were upon listening.

I don’t proclaim to understand “why” it does these things, but I acknowledge that it does do them. But, like most things, I think it is neither divinial nor has it any connection with the divine.

I have a real love of music, and can say with no doubt that my life would be poorer in its absence. My musical tastes run to the extreme end of the spectrum with Death Metal and Thrash being a large constituent of my daily routine. But, I also enjoy classical music, all be it not as often as Metal (mainly because I like to work fast, and classical calms me down).

While it is on a par with art in the sense that it is an “individually perceived” subject by definition, I believe that there is a general consensus regarding what is, and what is NOT music. Regardless of subclass or genre, music is music...but Iit is NEVER divine.


Edited by Room 101 (11/23/09 08:08 PM)
_________________________
"Nothing is your own except the few cubic centimeters inside your skull." - George Orwell (1984)

Top
#32164 - 11/23/09 08:20 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Please give me a break....
Below are your words:

"Setianism, as far as I understand is close to Luciferianism in the sense that they are engaged in enlightened individualism and self-deification through the current of Set. To me this may be the music / musicians who have excelled in their art and craft to such a high degree that they are instantly recognizable and have created their own world / aeon. We would find the virtuosos, and great composers here."

So, you are just talking out of your ass again, and can not come up with any TOS members who are famous musicians.

I don't care if you are a musician, that was never the issue.

My point was you stating things and not being able to back it up.

Don't pick a fight with me because you are unable to answer a direct question.

(On a side note, it really doesn't matter what group a musician belongs to, and I really don't care.)

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#32166 - 11/23/09 08:26 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Room 101]
Damis Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 60
Loc: England
The dictionary defines the term 'Divine' as,

"Of,from or like God or a god" or "Devoted to God".

Therefore to consider if music is divine or not in the first place, one would logically have to hold at least some form of theistic belief in the existence of god or some form of deity. Therefore I can't see how the question can be contemplated in what is commonly regarded as an atheistic satanic view.

I am in agreement with the others concerning the power of music and the effects it can have on a persons mood. Music is after all sound vibrations which have effects upon the brain.
_________________________
Leben ist krieg.

Top
#32167 - 11/23/09 08:29 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Room 101]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
 Quote:
Room101:music is music...but it is NEVER divine.


Is that because you believe there is no divine?
I'm not saying it is divine either, but I am questioning this side of it.

When you say "Music is audio rendered emotion" are you saying that music is emotion transformed into audio? Maybe you could rephrase it for me please.

What do you make of the Cymatics I posted earlier?
Sometimes I am of the thought that music, being vibrations, and vibrations being something that apparently can create order out of chaos, is responsible for everything in our Universe. Not sure if that qualifies it as something divine but it may be the big mover & shaker.

Top
#32168 - 11/23/09 08:42 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Morgan]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Please give me a break....
Below are your words:

"Setianism, as far as I understand is close to Luciferianism in the sense that they are engaged in enlightened individualism and self-deification through the current of Set. To me this may be the music / musicians who have excelled in their art and craft to such a high degree that they are instantly recognizable and have created their own world / aeon. We would find the virtuosos, and great composers here."

So, you are just talking out of your ass again, and can not come up with any TOS members who are famous musicians.

I don't care if you are a musician, that was never the issue.

My point was you stating things and not being able to back it up.

Don't pick a fight with me because you are unable to answer a direct question.

(On a side note, it really doesn't matter what group a musician belongs to, and I really don't care.)

Morgan
I'm not in the TOS, so I wouldn't know if there are any famous musicians, though being famous has nothing to do with what I am talking about. That's not the point here, is it?

I took what I thought was a broad definition for a few types of Satanism and tried to see how they might have fit in with certain types of music.

I'm not sure you see what I am trying to get at, perhaps my examples were poor and didn't translate well. Though I actually liked my comparisons.

Danny Carey for instance (Tool) is a Thelemite and uses aspects of Thelema in his drum arrangements, that I find interesting. Others have utilized the Qabalah to compose. Many of the classical composer were Freemasons and used formulas and designs based off their studies. I find that interesting.

So, I'll just make a note here that Satanism and music is just about writing some bad ass evil red dude with horns lyrics, you're going to hell verse?

Top
#32170 - 11/23/09 08:57 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
You are being a dick.

You made a sweeping statement, and you can't back it up.

Thus, in the future don't make sweeping statements you can't back up.

Reread that above post of mine you quoted with the pole out of your ass/ego.

You will see you are wrong and making this way more bigger than it needs to be.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#32171 - 11/23/09 09:14 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Damis]
Room 101 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Scotland
My opinion on divinity and music is stated above. But an even more concise comment was made after my own. I honestly couldn’t have stated it with anymore clarity if I tried, so I won’t.

 Originally Posted By: Damis
The dictionary defines the term 'Divine' as,

"Of,from or like God or a god" or "Devoted to God".

Therefore to consider if music is divine or not in the first place, one would logically have to hold at least some form of theistic belief in the existence of god or some form of deity. Therefore I can't see how the question can be contemplated in what is commonly regarded as an atheistic satanic view.


As for rephrasing my comment, I won’t. I like it that way, that’s why I typed it. But to elaborate on it...It simply means that music is sound “turned into” emotion. I am of course not being literal in this description, but I do believe that music has the ability to provoke great sensation. Through the use of the term "Music is audio rendered, emotion", I was trying to put across this point in a manner that matched its disjointed logic as well as its subtle though provocation...I was trying to indulge in a little non-literal metaphoric description...I was trying to be fucking eloquent! Ehem...

As for Cymatics, I would argue that its nothing more than exceedingly dumbed down particle physics, Wave form dynamics and Chaos theorem exerts combined and mish mashed together into a nice layman stew.. I honestly wouldn’t put much stock in it.


Edited by Room 101 (11/23/09 09:16 PM)
Edit Reason: Fat Hands
_________________________
"Nothing is your own except the few cubic centimeters inside your skull." - George Orwell (1984)

Top
#32173 - 11/23/09 09:20 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Morgan]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Shut up Morgan, go derail someone else's thread. There's nothing wrong with how I stated things, you are the only one that has taken issue with it. You don't like how I lumped certain musical qualities or lack of, with certain forms of Satanism, tough shit sweetie.

Back to the discussion . . . So Room101 & Damus, you mentioned emotions and music. This sort of makes music just a tool to transform and transfer emotional content? Could that be all music is? I see you didn't buy the Cymatics idea, I can see your point with it.


Edited by Ankhhape (11/23/09 09:23 PM)

Top
#32174 - 11/23/09 09:32 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
GillesdeRais Offline
member


Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 141
 Quote:
TOS members who are famous musicians


I heard Mick Mars (Motley Crue) was in the ToS for awhile then left. That's all I can add, other than to suggest to Ankhape that you should never fuck with someone who wears a spiked collar. Just a tip. ;\) As far as the supposed 'divinity' of music, music is mood-engineering, nothing more, nothing less. Whether its Marilyn Manson or Ralph Vaughan Williams, Tool or Handel...
_________________________
Philosophy, n. A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.

Top
#32176 - 11/23/09 10:08 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: GillesdeRais]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: GillesdeRais
 Quote:
TOS members who are famous musicians


As far as the supposed 'divinity' of music, music is mood-engineering, nothing more, nothing less. Whether its Marilyn Manson or Ralph Vaughan Williams, Tool or Handel...


Add to this that the musician composes music for the specific purpose OF manipulation, whether he writes it just for himself or he writes it for the mass audience. Unless a musician has a reason to write a composition, what is his motivation to do it? If it's praise of "the divine,", it's the selling of an emotion. If it's the offering of his work (his display of emotion) to the public, it's precisely the same thing, although I would think that the public pays better.

Another aspect is that artists, whether they are actors or musicians, know their audience and play to that strength. An artist who wishes his works to appeal to those who share emotion as a religious or spiritual outlet is going to write music that will be appreciated by his target group. Worked for Handel as well as it does for Tool, 50 Cent or Boxcar Willie.

Music is simply the tool by which they convey their message.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#32177 - 11/23/09 10:23 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Jake999]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Thanks Jake, that made sense, not what I wanted to hear, but it made sense, LOL.

What do you say about the binaural beats and sound / vibration's ability to alter physical (and mental / spiritual?) aspects of ourselves?

For instance the frequency 528Hz (part of what was called the Sacred Solfeggios) is known to repair damaged DNA.
Binaural beats and such seem to be able to alter our consciousness, or does it?

Again may I mention the Universe being created of vibration, it would seem to me that the very essence of music is tapping into this 'primordial vibration'. Just because mankind has regulated sound to be this mundane 'tool' doesn't necessarily mean this is what music really is?

Perhaps there could be a deeper, hidden, occult, forgotten truth that music holds . . . or as Morgan so daintily put it, maybe I'm talking out my ass?

Top
#32179 - 11/23/09 10:32 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
It is what it is. Organisms react. It infers no intervention by any form of divinity, simply that reaction occurs in response to stimulus.

Cancer grows quickly if exposed to a highly oxygenated environment. While some sounds can elevate, others such as those categorized as "infrasound" can cause one to feel ill. Stimulus and reaction. Why try to humanize that which is simply an natural response to a natural stimulus? Why try to deify that which humans happen to recognize as being a manipulable stimulus to obtain a manipulable response?

Monks have long used tonalities in their chants to achieve an altered state of reality in which they feel they are more amenable to communing with "god." The Sufi sect of Dervishes does the same thing through dance, whirling until they reach that altered state, leaning back, "one hand to god, one hand to man." The association with divinity they might feel is as much a matter of stimulus and reaction as the teen who "really gets off on the music." They don't speak the same language, but the sentence translates.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#32180 - 11/23/09 10:48 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Jake999]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Oh man! I went from Plato's The Myth of Er, through the Corpus Hermeticum's True knowledge of music, Plotinus' Universal Harmony, Pythagoras' Harmony of the Spheres up to Sufi Inayat Kahn, Gurdjieff and Stockhausen, even lived and studied with Robert Fripp in 1985 . . . just to find out that I've been blowing smoke up my own ass? How terrifying and depressing. I knew I should have been an accountant.
Top
#32181 - 11/23/09 10:49 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Don't tell me to shut the fuck up.

You are still avoiding the issue.

You made a sweeping statement.
I called you on it.
You failed in backing up your words.

Just like how you stole someone elses information and didn't cite where you took it from.

Whatever, you are an idiot, no matter how much you try to clean yourself up and use big words.

Morgan

carry on......
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#32188 - 11/24/09 12:50 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Morgan]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Don't tell me to shut the fuck up.

You are still avoiding the issue.

You made a sweeping statement.
I called you on it.
You failed in backing up your words.

Just like how you stole someone elses information and didn't cite where you took it from.

Whatever, you are an idiot, no matter how much you try to clean yourself up and use big words.

Morgan

carry on......
I'll tell you to shut the fuck up whenever I want to. You're being nothing but a clit here. How am I still avoiding 'the issue' . . . what issue? The one that you have subscribed to? I've answered my 'sweeping' statement. What is it you 'need' woman?

My cut & paste of the 'Primordial note' was, as I stated, from my private notes, I should have included the citation, sue me.

Top
#32191 - 11/24/09 01:27 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
You kiss your mother with that mouth?

Lol, never mind, you are a joke.

You proved my point.
I don't need anything from you.

Stay in New Jersey, it suits you.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#34156 - 01/18/10 04:50 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: JWG]
Dakota Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 60
Loc: Michigan
I say it's less divine and more of human psychology; or psychology of anything living in broad terms.

It makes you feel different, based on the sounds that music is producing.

Right now I really want empty vast music that makes me feel like I am standing in a realm of nothingness except cold reality. Like at a airport lobby at 3 in the morning and no one is around, and the year is 2054. Something like that however that feels like.

I can't choose and pick my favorite song, as long as it takes me on a trip I am fine. But it better be a good one.

And I can't listen to a song forever either, once or twice is good. Then it's too much within a single day.

Top
#34403 - 01/22/10 09:07 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Dakota]
soul Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 5
Good music is divine. A beautiful girl is divine. Here's an example of good music , "whiskey in the jar", Metallica. I was wondering, what kind of music do you like?
Top
#34422 - 01/23/10 10:51 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: soul]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
Here's an example of good music , "whiskey in the jar", Metallica.

Depends on what you call "good". It is a matter of personal taste.
The song "whiskey in the jar" its origins might already lay in the 17th century according to Alan Lomax (last name might be wrong).
It gained reputation during the 1950s and has been covered by various artists, such as Metallica, The dubliners , Thin lizzy ,...

These examples have covered the same song, yet I am quite sure there will be people who will prefer the Thin Lizzy version above the Metallica version or,...
It depends on what is personally defined as "good" and/or divine.

Both represent a subjective view about a general feeling you experience. But does divine music exist? That is a matter for everyone to judge by himself.


Edited by Dimitri (01/23/10 11:29 AM)
Edit Reason: Double checked; was Lomax instead of molax
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#35614 - 02/14/10 12:05 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Dimitri]
spiral Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 17
Amazing song. Anybody here listens to EODM? Wannabe in LA , one of my favourites.
I'm sure music is a matter of personal taste. That's what making music divine.

Top
#35684 - 02/15/10 11:22 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: spiral]
Gemini Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
 Originally Posted By: spiral
Amazing song. Anybody here listens to EODM? Wannabe in LA , one of my favourites.
I'm sure music is a matter of personal taste. That's what making music divine.


It is a matter of personal taste - all forms of art are, with beauty being in the eye of the beholder, and all that jazz.
_________________________
http://www.soundcloud.com/onewingedangel

-Gemini

Top
#35770 - 02/18/10 06:20 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Gemini]
spiral Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 17
"Personal taste" sounds like a limitation to me. Vincent Van Gogh's "Wheat field with crows" is just for the eyes.
Top
#60464 - 10/26/11 04:15 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: spiral]
Vinter Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 18
To me, music is one of the things that construct the very meaning of life. It's a very emotional thing to me. It's about calmness, adrenaline and every emotion in between. Going to a intimate concert or playing music so loud you can even feel the bass is even better. It makes the experience both physical and emotional, and to my personal knowledge there is no better feeling than that.

I realize when I read through this that my words do a poor job in describing how I feel about music, but I guess that in itself says it all.

Top
#60468 - 10/26/11 07:12 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Vinter]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 513
Schopenhauer considered music to be the highest artform.
"Music stands alone, quite cut off from all the other arts"

He went on to say that in music we do not recognize the copy or repetition of any Idea of existence in the world.

"Music is thus by no means like the other arts, the copy of the Ideas, but the copy of the Will itself, whose objectivity these Ideas are. This is why the effect of music is much more powerful and penetrating than that of the other arts, for they speak only of shadows, but it speaks of the thing itself."

Top
#60602 - 10/30/11 12:40 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Drax Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 10
Loc: North America
I think that a person's taste in music largely depends on that that person individually, not necessarily the religion they may or may not hold. For example, I am a Satanist and I enjoy Classical, Oldies, Dark Ambient, Black Metal and Doom Metal. I even listen to Lady GaGa and Rihanna from time to time.

Furthermore, the reason we listen to music is also largely personal. IE: some choose to listen to music to shift their brain waves, some choose to work out to it, some choose to use it to meditate and so on.

Personally, I fall asleep to Black Metal and get some of my best inspirations in writing from Classical. Again, it is largely personal.


Edited by Drax (10/30/11 12:55 AM)
_________________________
Embracing the Fall

Top
#60611 - 10/30/11 08:44 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Drax]
Vinter Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 18
I agree, Drax. One can use music for countless purposes. For me, the spiritual and emotional aspect is the most important, hence my love for black metal and classical music. I do, as you, listen to some other music, but it does not "give" me anything, like black metal and classical music does.

I can understand that some people enjoy technically advanced music such as certain types of death metal, and I sometimes enjoy it myself. Emotionally, however, it rarely brings about anything else than mere admiration for the musicians' technical skills, and I most often seek something deeper than that in the music I listen to. I hate it when people talk shit about black metal bands lacking super-technical skills and super-smooth production, because what they may lack in technique, the technical bands often lack in atmosphere, and that atmosphere is exactly what I want.

Top
#60632 - 10/30/11 04:59 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Vinter]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: Vinter
...I hate it when people talk shit about black metal bands lacking super-technical skills and super-smooth production, because what they may lack in technique, the technical bands often lack in atmosphere, and that atmosphere is exactly what I want...
I'm fan of black metal bands already from school time and now I'm 36 - all time I enjoy black metal. It's like a part of my being and of course because of life, society, social contacts and just interest I've listened many genres of music, but I'm always back to black metal. I like atmosphere, direct message...

I'm teacher almost all my adult life and I have to be polite in the work, I'm family man (I've wife, kids), I have always work at home and more in my country side house..., always quite busy in social life and in nature I'm very peaceful and tolerant... Black metal is music, where I can hang out and sometimes not only hang out - it's for some can be contradiction, but in black metal I find serenity!
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

Top
#60645 - 10/30/11 05:54 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Drax]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 513
 Originally Posted By: Drax
. . . the reason we listen to music is also largely personal.
You would be surprised at how many of the world's ears have been manipulated to 'enjoy' a certain type of music, this is exactly how popular music exists and continues to evolve as well as the musics associated with particular cultural aspects.

Top
#60664 - 10/31/11 01:37 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Oxus]
Drax Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 10
Loc: North America
@ Oxus

Absolutely true! Social conditioning however is responsible for a lot more than a particularly popular taste in music. It is also responsible for popular morality.

If we look at the music video industry specifically, we discover that breaking morality sells, that Satanic imagery sells and that sex has never ceased to sell. We also discover that since the music video industry has a competitive market between shock artists, the more shocking something in a music video is the more popular it shall become due to that shock alone.

Take Lady GaGa. Her videos are hardly tame and her wardrobe is the least thing from conventional. Her lyrics however are completely average! Typical hypnotic garbage intended to entertain cattle! However, the sharp contrast of her visual style, Satanic imagery, sexual allure and NWO symbolism clearly defines that she is not 'like the rest'.

I find the more and more I watch music videos, the more extreme they seem to get. The way they get extreme however is what interests me; they transcend common morality schemes. (Like Lady GaGa showing off her vagina in a now hard to find once viral video) or how Rap music videos seem to get more and more raunchy.

Here is another example.

Take a child about the age of 8 who is wearing a Slayer hoody. Does the child know he is advertising Satanic imagery? Rarely. Do his parents? That depends. Yet he wears it and majority society does not bat an eye anymore. Why? It has become 'normal' or socially acceptable.

Yet at one point Slayer was considered over the top, just like KISS was once over the top. Now we see even little babies wearing skull jackets and children over five wearing 'metal tees' full of graphically detailed Satanic imagery and no one really gives it any thought of being 'wrong' or 'evil'.

Sometimes by this lack of reaction I wonder if the once 'Devil' which terrorized people in the 1980's and prior has become nothing more than a symbolic expression of commercialized individuality.

Anyways, back to the 'meat' of this post.

This musical/visual entropy in the industry of media seems to push more and more to the extremes. I think this works in our favor and against us. It works to our favor in that it exposes the world to anti-christian imagery (crushing Christianity from popular culture) but also against us because it makes our 'shock' seem tame.

Must we now as Satanists be more shocking to overcome this desensitization inflicted on society by popular media? It seems only proper to inflict yet more entropy into the already morally degraded cesspool of popular entertainment.

Yet here is another question for you, though not on music. Why does modern cinema not produce semi-realistic or at least believable Satanic rituals? Why do new movies not contain the same eye-popping extreme Satanism and "Hail Satan"s as movies did in the 1980s?

Has Satanism as a ceremonial flavor washed away? Is it now just images of gore, inverted crosses, skulls, zombies and pentagrams?

Furthermore, can Satanism survive this commercialization? Will it die out as an individualistic path based on breaking taboos and become just another over-marketed product for the sheep?
_________________________
Embracing the Fall

Top
#60666 - 10/31/11 02:30 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Drax]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
If we look at the music video industry specifically, we discover that breaking morality sells, that Satanic imagery sells and that sex has never ceased to sell.


Yes, that stuff sells. But those numbers pale in comparison to the amount of money brought in by Christian recording artists.

 Quote:
We also discover that since the music video industry has a competitive market between shock artists, the more shocking something in a music video is the more popular it shall become due to that shock alone.


Yes, there is competition in pretty much every aspect of life. What's your point? Or was it your intention to state the obvious?

 Quote:
Take Lady GaGa. Her videos are hardly tame and her wardrobe is the least thing from conventional. Her lyrics however are completely average! Typical hypnotic garbage intended to entertain cattle! However, the sharp contrast of her visual style, Satanic imagery, sexual allure and NWO symbolism clearly defines that she is not 'like the rest'.


She's in the entertainment business and in this respect, she is very much like the rest. Also, that "sexual allure" is not something she invented or something only she is doing so it doesn't really set her apart. I also don't see much "Satanic imagery" or "NWO symbolism" in anything she does.

 Quote:
Take a child about the age of 8 who is wearing a Slayer hoody. Does the child know he is advertising Satanic imagery? Rarely. Do his parents? That depends. Yet he wears it and majority society does not bat an eye anymore. Why? It has become 'normal' or socially acceptable.


Forgetting the fact that this is merely a hypothetical situation, I doubt the child would care. They're probably just showing their support a band they like. And Tom Araya is an avowed Catholic and has admitted it for years. So any "Satanic imagery" associated with them is really nothing more than a marketing tool. But what is the point of this? Do you think society at large should be up in arms about a Slayer shirt? Would that make you happy? It seems rather stupid to me.

 Quote:
Now we see even little babies wearing skull jackets and children over five wearing 'metal tees' full of graphically detailed Satanic imagery and no one really gives it any thought of being 'wrong' or 'evil'.


I can guarantee you that some people do still think that stuff is wrong. But, again, so what?

 Quote:
Sometimes by this lack of reaction I wonder if the once 'Devil' which terrorized people in the 1980's and prior has become nothing more than a symbolic expression of commercialized individuality.


It's simple, this is all old-news so people will naturally less shocked by. There are those who still fear their boogey man but for the most part I think people see it for what is: a marketing tool. And there a lot of people who just plain don't care. And why should they?

 Quote:
Anyways, back to the 'meat' of this post.


That's funny, so far all I have seen is fat.

 Quote:
Must we now as Satanists be more shocking to overcome this desensitization inflicted on society by popular media?


I can't see any reason why.

 Quote:
It seems only proper to inflict yet more entropy into the already morally degraded cesspool of popular entertainment.


I am confused by your use of the word entropy. Are you referring to social entropy or are you using the word as it relates to thermodynamics? And what does it mean to "inflict yet more entropy..."? That sounds like a load of platitudinous bullshit. And "morally degraded cesspool" is a value judgement and, as such, is not really relevant.

 Quote:
Why does modern cinema not produce semi-realistic or at least believable Satanic rituals? Why do new movies not contain the same eye-popping extreme Satanism and "Hail Satan"s as movies did in the 1980s?


Here's a better question: Why does it matter? It sounds like you are more into Satanism-for-shock-value. As if your constant use of entropy in some failed attempt at sounding smart wasn't bad enough. I can only shake my head in contempt.

 Quote:
Furthermore, can Satanism survive this commercialization? Will it die out as an individualistic path based on breaking taboos and become just another over-marketed product for the sheep?


Satanism isn't for "sheep". It never has been and it never will be. Nor is it a commodity I.E. something that can be bought and sold. So there is no need to be concerned about such things.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#60672 - 10/31/11 03:25 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Drax Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 10
Loc: North America
She's in the entertainment business and in this respect, she is very much like the rest. Also, that "sexual allure" is not something she invented or something only she is doing so it doesn't really set her apart. I also don't see much "Satanic imagery" or "NWO symbolism" in anything she does.

----

I never stated once that Lady GaGa invented her usage of sexual allure, though I did say she was unlike most others in how she expressed certain symbolism.

Furthermore, Lady GaGa utilized Satanic imagery in Aleandro when she appeared as a sort of 'nun' in vynal/pvc costume (or whatever it was) accented by inverted crosses of red and arrows. She utilized Satanic imagery in Bad Romance with the two goats above her flaming bed. She utilized NWO imagery in Alenadro in the beginning with the gay men stomping in the beginning and the curious large wearable symbols they had on. Further NWO imagery can be found in her videos if you know what to look for. The unicorn in the pink triangle, herself as a poorly functioning robot, her desire shown for fame in Bad Romance by her subjecting herself to the inspecting 'elite' men. It actually gets very deep but again you have to know about that sort of thing. Lady GaGa also uses the gesture of 'all seeing eye' constantly. Point proven.
------

Forgetting the fact that this is merely a hypothetical situation, I doubt the child would care. They're probably just showing their support a band they like. And Tom Araya is an avowed Catholic and has admitted it for years. So any "Satanic imagery" associated with them is really nothing more than a marketing tool. But what is the point of this? Do you think society at large should be up in arms about a Slayer shirt? Would that make you happy? It seems rather stupid to me.


------
I absolutely do not think society should react negatively to Satanic imagery and I did not once say I did.
------

I can guarantee you that some people do still think that stuff is wrong. But, again, so what?

------
Their minds must be changed then, right? What is taboo should become typical and what is typical should be forgotten. No?
------

It's simple, this is all old-news so people will naturally less shocked by. There are those who still fear their boogey man but for the most part I think people see it for what is: a marketing tool. And there a lot of people who just plain don't care. And why should they?

------
I never said they should care, though making them care might be a challenge.
------

I am confused by your use of the word entropy. Are you referring to social entropy or are you using the word as it relates to thermodynamics? And what does it mean to "inflict yet more entropy..."? That sounds like a load of platitudinous bullshit. And "morally degraded cesspool" is a value judgement and, as such, is not really relevant.

------
The steady breakdown of perceived visual/audible moral norms . This is how I use entropy.
------

Here's a better question: Why does it matter? It sounds like you are more into Satanism-for-shock-value. As if your constant use of entropy in some failed attempt at sounding smart wasn't bad enough. I can only shake my head in contempt.

------
I am not 'into' Satanism for the shock value. I am into Satanism because I live it.
------

Satanism isn't for "sheep". It never has been and it never will be. Nor is it a commodity I.E. something that can be bought and sold. So there is no need to be concerned about such things.

------

I can go out and purchase 'The Satanic Bible', I can pay to join the CoS. Thus, it can be bought and sold. Satanism as it stands today is commercial.


Edited by Drax (10/31/11 03:28 AM)
_________________________
Embracing the Fall

Top
#60688 - 10/31/11 12:30 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Drax]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
I never stated once that Lady GaGa invented her usage of sexual allure, though I did say she was unlike most others in how she expressed certain symbolism.


You said that how she expresses herself in her videos is what sets her apart and made mention of her sexual allure in that respect. I didn't say that you said she invented it, all I said is that she is not the only one who does it so it doesn't really set her apart. Learn to read.


 Quote:
Further NWO imagery can be found in her videos if you know what to look for.


If you are actively looking for such things, chances are you will see it everywhere.

 Quote:
The unicorn in the pink triangle, herself as a poorly functioning robot, her desire shown for fame in Bad Romance by her subjecting herself to the inspecting 'elite' men.


When I see a unicorn in a pink triangle, the first thing I think is "gay" - not NWO. And given her track record of supporting equality for homosexuals, I think that is more likely the case. You are the one arbitrarily attaching meaning to these things. I could say that her "being inspected by the 'elite' men" is a representation of how woman are often objectified. Or it could simply be something the director thrown in for other reasons or no reason at all.

 Quote:
Point proven.


You've proven nothing other than that you read too much into things.

 Quote:
I absolutely do not think society should react negatively to Satanic imagery and I did not once say I did.


Obviously you didn't say you did, otherwise I wouldn't have had to ask.

 Quote:
I absolutely do not think society should react negatively to Satanic imagery and I did not once say I did.


No. I'm not in the business of changing minds. People will think what they want, fuck 'em, no skin off my balls.

 Quote:
The steady breakdown of perceived visual/audible moral norms . This is how I use entropy.


That does nothing to clarify what you mean.

 Quote:
I am not 'into' Satanism for the shock value. I am into Satanism because I live it.


Then why spend so much time being concerned with the people not being shocked by (what you call) "Satanic imagery"?

 Quote:
I can go out and purchase 'The Satanic Bible', I can pay to join the CoS. Thus, it can be bought and sold. Satanism as it stands today is commercial.


TSB is a book, books can be sold. CoS is a business, the bottom line of business is the bottom line. In no way is this a reflection of Satanism being bought and sold what it does show is that people are stupid enough to believe that Satanism is something they can buy their way into. What many idiots like to call "Satanism" may be commercialized but that doesn't mean that actual Satanism is. Again, it is not possible for it to be commercialized, therefore it isn't and can't ever be.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#60692 - 10/31/11 01:37 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 320
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6


When I see a unicorn in a pink triangle, the first thing I think is "gay" - not NWO.


Lmao. Me too. I can't see how a unicorn means illuminati. Drax is "special." She has an obsession with the New World Order. She talks about it in every Satanic forum she befouls. Looks like she's finally made her way to the 600 Club. I imagine Morgan will be over joyed.


Edited by Caladrius (10/31/11 01:38 PM)
_________________________
Chloe 352

Top
#60693 - 10/31/11 01:37 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Commercialization can only ever be an element of 'nomos', hence that which is antinomian by definition can never be commercial.

6 this one is what is known as an 'instant expert'...you are wasting your time.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#60701 - 10/31/11 02:34 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Dan_Dread]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Yeah, I already got the feeling that Drax is one of those instant experts. And they will inevitably hang themselves, I'm just trying to speed up the process. And in that regard, I'm not really wasting my time. ;\)
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#60740 - 11/01/11 02:03 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Caladrius]
Drax Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 10
Loc: North America
@ Caladrius

Her symbols actually have dual meaning.


"Pink triangles pointing downwards were used in Nazi concentration camps to denote homosexual men. The same pink triangle pointing upwards has become a symbol of gay pride and gay rights. On an esoteric level, triangles pointing down are archetypal symbols representing the sacred feminine (in opposition to the upwards pointing triangle representing the phallic masculine). The inverted triangle is emblematic of the womb, the vessel and the uterus. It is the passive principle awaiting the active principle.

Inside the triangle is a unicorn, an ancient mythological creature emblematic of purity, spiritual enlightenment and fierceness – the horn is often viewed as symbolic of the union of with God. In esoteric terms it refers to the third eye or the pineal gland.

In Christian symbolism, the Unicorn is a symbol of Christ. It is also often associated with the Virgin Mary."


resource website


I am NOT fond or the above link but posting that is easier than posting three or four resource links to the actual information.

(By the way, I do not think Lady GaGa is part of any big conspiracy - because I do not believe in said conspiracy. Rather, I just wished to prove my point.

Go and look up the meanings for these symbols yourself, then go to all of her other videos and look up their symbols. If you come back to this one and still think it is JUST about 'gay rights', I pity your intellect (well, not really).


Furthermore, yes I am obsessed with the NWO *BIG IDEA*. Is that a crime? I think everyone has their obsessions, for some it is music and for some it is smoking weed. Mine is what it is and I do not apologize for it. Thank you, Satanists.
_________________________
Embracing the Fall

Top
#60752 - 11/01/11 12:47 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Drax]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Her symbols actually have dual meaning.


"Pink triangles pointing downwards were used in Nazi concentration camps to denote homosexual men. The same pink triangle pointing upwards has become a symbol of gay pride and gay rights. On an esoteric level, triangles pointing down are archetypal symbols representing the sacred feminine (in opposition to the upwards pointing triangle representing the phallic masculine). The inverted triangle is emblematic of the womb, the vessel and the uterus. It is the passive principle awaiting the active principle.

Inside the triangle is a unicorn, an ancient mythological creature emblematic of purity, spiritual enlightenment and fierceness – the horn is often viewed as symbolic of the union of with God. In esoteric terms it refers to the third eye or the pineal gland.

In Christian symbolism, the Unicorn is a symbol of Christ. It is also often associated with the Virgin Mary."


And yet there is nothing there about NWO in there. You can't use a conspiracy theory website to back up your claims. This is what is known as circular-logic and is akin to someone trying to use the Bible as proof of God's existence. Damn, you sure are ignorant. ;\)
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#60768 - 11/01/11 04:34 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Drax Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 10
Loc: North America
@ Archist

Actually, it has a lot to do with the belief structures of those who support the NWO Big Idea.

My suggestion is do your research. I once was one of those 'no way can this conspiracy crap have any value' people too. It does have value, just not to the extent it is blown up to have. (IE: The NWO is just a Big Idea; not a multi-national conspiracy bent on enslaving humanity to reptilian overlords or some bs)
_________________________
Embracing the Fall

Top
#60781 - 11/01/11 05:38 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Drax]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Actually, the only thing it has something to do with is that those that believe in the NWO Big Idea, whatever that is, have a tendency to see everything in that light. It is also called confirmation bias.

D.

Top
#62463 - 12/10/11 04:42 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
Mordred Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 25
So, I'm playing later today for a Methodist church's advent concert, and rehearsing for it over the past few days has gotten me thinking about this topic.

I think I can safely say that some of the greatest musical works ever written are attributed to, or at least written on the subject of God (not the least of which being Handel's Messiah, Bach's Magnificat, or Mozart's requiem). I think it is also safe to say that their greatness lies not in the words, or their sacred nature, but in the genius of their structure. It is in that way, I feel, music separates itself from the other art forms. A piece doesn't need to comment on society, or even be examined within the context of society, for it to be a masterpiece.

However, the music I'm playing this evening can only be described as trite. There is no counterpoint, no interesting chord progressions, merely a very thinly disguised rehashing of the same pop songs my colleagues and I scorn on a daily basis. Unfortunately, this has become standard, and I can only look to secular music with hope (the most recent sacred work I would consider to be even decent is John Rutter's Requiem, and he's an Atheist).

To be blunt, I would give my left leg to go back in time, find whoever first wrote a song around a I-IV-V progression, and punch him squarely in the dick.

Ultimately, I hope that a given piece's subject matter does not turn away prospective listeners, because while I hate Christianity with a passion, I love the music it has influenced.

On the subject of music's nature, I think it is as much an invention of the ego as any deity. Theory and logic are the foundations on which great music is written, but it is the character and personality of the performer that gives music life.

When I studied the Shostakovich violin concerto, I appreciated it on paper as a work of genius, but it was Kogan's performance of it that made me weep. In the ritual chamber, I imagine the emotional connection is the same.
_________________________
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" - Hitchens

Top
#64038 - 01/24/12 07:22 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Mordred]
PaimonNoxulifer Offline
banned, needs to read more and get a clue
stranger


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 9
I'll start off by saying that I have a theistic traditional veiw of what this god sometimes called Satan is.
He is a real existing entity that exists beyond and is enshrined within cosmos.
I am an Anti-cosmic Satanist, I am not part of any groups and my beleifs are based off of my personell expeirences and connection to the god of chaos but some groups and writers I agree with and have influenced me are Temple of the black light, order of the nine angels, Michael W. ford and the order of phosphorus. those are just examples I feel are most imortant to mention.
And I'll also say according to my own beleifs musick is Satanic/Luciferian only
I beleive that music are sound structures that cause the mind and/or soul/spirit to chanell and release chaotic destructive energies that are disharmounous with the cosmos and order. It's like metaphysical ''pollution'', you could say.
these energies also ignite the spirit (black flame- essence of wrathful chaos) and thus ultimately have simalier destructive effects.
To me musick is holy shrines of chaos, veneration of the god of Chaos. A nexion to chaos (gateway to hell!) and to speak in babylonian terms it is the agonized voice of Hurbur (Tiamat, [primordial chaos], enraged at it's impure creation, Marduk/demiurge and later cosmos) and one of the ways my Father speaks to me.

I beleive that the mind can create real metaphysical energy,and even something as simple as negative destructive thoughts create an energy and weaken the world spirit. And those of the spirit force can be as gateways to essence beyond- chaos itself...

I am a Black Metal musician and envoy of Paimon... I see what I do as true warefare. And it's not just an excuse to not enage in physical war, because that is something I do aswell and the way i plan on dying when I do everything I need to do before. And I don't see myself as a slave, I don't value this life or world and I want to die for Lucifer, and I beleive the spirit essence is of Lucifer and the primordial mother Tiamat thus his will is my own.
sometimes I say i serve Lucifer what I mean by this is that I serve my own true will.
''serving'' Lucifer has only brought upon me personell benefit and benefit towards everything i beleive and know is true and pure.
And this is not a faith but something I know. A true Satanist (in MY veiw) knows he is real by proof, if he doesn't then he is making some mistakes.


Edited by PaimonNoxulifer (01/24/12 07:26 PM)
Edit Reason: typos, grammer, bad english

Top
#64040 - 01/25/12 02:52 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: PaimonNoxulifer]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I'm sure the ideas you propose sound quite good but there are a couple of problems with them.

First, what is anti-cosmic and is it even possible to be anti-cosmic? I'd say no because it's like being anti-reality. It does make little sense to be anti-reality when the requirement for this is being a part of the very reality. The same goes with anti-cosmic. That would only make sense if you're not part of the cosmos to begin with. This is not like being anti-abortion or anti-religion. So what is anti-cosmic? You dislike gravity and prefer to see it changed? Or do you prefer light to travel at 30 mph? I mean, what is anti-cosmic besides some modern doom and gloom which, intellectually, holds little ground?

The same goes for chaotic destructive energies disharmonious with the cosmos and order. It builds upon some naive idea that the cosmos functions like a watch and that when someone throws a stick into the mechanism, it all comes tumbling down. Everything that happens in the cosmos happens simply because the very cosmos allows it to happen. There is nothing disharmonious and I'll even say more; there's no order and there's no chaos. Again, these are modern popularized ideas which, intellectually, can be dismissed.

So I think you better do some research into most of what you propose here because all there is to it is that it sounds fancy. But that's about it. Anti-cosmic, chaotic energy, metaphysical energy; they're words but not more.

D.

Top
#64046 - 01/25/12 02:56 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Diavolo]
chuck1960e Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 26
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
My satanic view on music - rock'n'roll generally - centers around my experience playing guitar. I see the guitar as a musical divining-rod, searching for the vibrations of that dark natural force in the universe I call Satan. Therefore, I do believe music has a connection to an infernal divinity.
As far as my physical and emotional experience goes, music creates a chthonic ambience for my psyche to soak up and enjoy. In addition, emotions rise and fall depending upon my receptivity and mood.
I can't verify any of this as experience for any other member, but this is my subjective reality.


Edited by chuck1960e (01/25/12 03:23 PM)
Edit Reason: Word Choice
_________________________
"When you see me with a smile on my face, then you'll know I'm a mental case."

Top
#64049 - 01/25/12 04:09 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: chuck1960e]
PaimonNoxulifer Offline
banned, needs to read more and get a clue
stranger


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 9
Hi, Diavolo!

Anti-cosmic is chaotic. I see chaos as the antithesis to this false existence. Chaos, from this world could be interpreted as nothingness (anti-existence), but it is actually the true existence.
I see spirit as a manifestation of chaos, thus those few beings that still possess a spirit (black flame, flame of moloch, promethean fire, seed of apep, blood of kingu) are anti-cosmic.
I am Anti-cosmic for I am not of my flesh but something from beyond this world.
I beleive beings of chaos are the only ones that subjectively expeirence and controll their own existence, and have a concousness isolate from the natural order. Those who lack spirit are no different then bionic computers, and they have no will power of their own, their actions and thoughts are governed by chemical reactions of their brain, thus these are beings of the impure creator god and are part of his illusion, the false existance that is cosmos.
I hate all cosmic laws, for they are what restricts my spirit essence. And I wish for all to be anihilated- unified with the true existence.
In babylonian mythology Kingu (who I beleive to be the same being some call Satan) was summoned by Hurbur as an opposing force to her impure creations and to defeat them. Thus I beleive Satan is an opposing force to cosmos and the rebel gods, and his goal is to return everything back to the primordial womb- true existence. (and later Kingu was sacrificed by Marduk and man was made from his blood- thus man was enshrined with the anti-cosmic essence. though many had this flame put out)

I agree everything happens for a reason. and the essence of time and evoloution is cosmos trying to destroy itself. it was made form the flesh of Tiamat. This is why in traditional Satanism it is said the female aspect of the adversary (Bafomet, Lilitu, Hekate) is teh force that guides evoloution, becaus eshe is Tiamt in exile. trying to return herself back to her true form.

even cosmos has it's purpose to purifie and evolve Tiamat to Azerate, the eternal form.

The way I see it is there is ONLY chaos and an illusion of false order.

I am a teenager, and the way i express my beleifs do change when i learn more but this is something I have put alot of thought into and completley purely beleive in not just by research but my own connection to Lucifer

you can read about anti-cosmic Satanism here (as the official website is down, for now)-
http://www.scribd.com/EhratiEnarzen/d/29036646-Temple-of-the-Black-Light

Thank you for replying but i do not beleive there is any problems with what I said.

EDIT: I meant the official website of the Temple of the black Light, not the official site of Anti-cosmic Satanism!


Edited by PaimonNoxulifer (01/25/12 04:14 PM)

Top
#64050 - 01/25/12 04:35 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: PaimonNoxulifer]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem here is evidently chaos. Let's assume for a moment there is such a thing as chaos. If we'd create a theory for this chaos, and let's ignore the Chaos Theory which has nothing to do with chaos and is deterministic in nature, well this whole theory would exist out of one sentence. Chaos implies anything could happen, or not. That's about all there is to say about chaos.

But what we can conclude from this is that chaos and existence, in whatever form, or even the idea of some sort of control within a chaotic environment, are simply impossible and even if, momentarily.

So whatever idea one has, the moment one talks about existence, and especially about any form of control upon ones environment, one has to inhabit either a deterministic or probabilistic environment which would make it cosmic again. And since the idea of something cosmic beyond our cosmos is nothing but an addition of a quite non-relevant layer, it is much more plausible this reality, our cosmos, even while not necessarily being as perceived by us, is all there is.

D.

Top
#64053 - 01/25/12 04:58 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Diavolo]
PaimonNoxulifer Offline
banned, needs to read more and get a clue
stranger


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 9
The thing is you define existence as cosmos which is completley different then the way I veiw things.
Speaking from that sort of persepective there is no chaos because it is nothingness. Chaos can have no theory, it is something beyond grasping with cosmic words and the limits of brain. The only way to know chaos is to be one with chaos, and connect yourself to it.
According to cosmic understanding chaos is paradoxial and impossiable, (but also cosmos itself is to according to such understanding), disproving nothingenss is really just proving it. Because it's nothing and doesn't exist.

Top
#64054 - 01/25/12 05:03 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: PaimonNoxulifer]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Yeah but you know, the problem with this is that it is just making things up. That's the problem with ToBL too. I find it interesting from an artistic perspective but intellectually, it's just nonsense.

It's a load of hollow phrases and concepts which none can make any serious argument for. This implies none can, nor should, take it serious.

And if you embrace this sort of views as a conviction, you'll always run into problems the moment someone picks it apart, or ask to provide something substantial to back it up.

D.

Top
#64055 - 01/25/12 05:24 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Diavolo]
PaimonNoxulifer Offline
banned, needs to read more and get a clue
stranger


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 9
The way I see it these veiws are completley flawless and cannot be doubted in anyway.
and this kind of cosmology does not orginate from temple of the black light but much older religions.

you're very smart but do no not look at the big picture only through the limiting ''tunnel vision'' of your physical mind not the light that shines through it and all these illusions- your spirit, inner serpent/dragon that is all knowing, the all seeing eye of Lucifer.

I embrace these veiws as everything. All that is and is meant to be

Top
#64056 - 01/25/12 05:30 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: PaimonNoxulifer]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I'd not say they are flawless and you'll notice the moment you'll have to go deeper into them.

Try to explain me in a plausible manner what this nothingness is and what reason one has to believe in its existence. What evidence or argument would make me willing to accept it as possible? And how can one exist in this nothingness or even have control upon it?

D.

Top
#64060 - 01/25/12 06:50 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: PaimonNoxulifer]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: PaimonNoxulifer
The way I see it these veiws are completley flawless and cannot be doubted in anyway.


Indeed, once you reach this point you have little use for a brain anyway. Why think when you can just believe.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#64061 - 01/25/12 08:31 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: PaimonNoxulifer]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
 Originally Posted By: PaimonNoxulifer
The way I see it these veiws are completley flawless and cannot be doubted in anyway.



Wow this quote is filled with fail. Nothing is completely flawless . And everything can and should be doubted. You are painting with a very broad brush. Larger than the ones sold at the Home Depot .
_________________________
http://satanicinternationalnetwork.com/

Top
#64079 - 01/26/12 01:11 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Zach_Black]
PaimonNoxulifer Offline
banned, needs to read more and get a clue
stranger


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 9
Comrades, you speak with your ego. Connection to Lucifer is the key to understanding the true existence.

Understanding this entity enough that you have complete trust in everything He teaches you

I only beleive what I know is true, as I said.

Top
#64080 - 01/26/12 01:18 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: PaimonNoxulifer]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Yes, as does any devout christian. They just KNOW God is real.

The second you stop doubting and believe faith can give you something approaching knowledge, you have committed intellectual suicide. Nothing is above scrutiny.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#64081 - 01/26/12 01:24 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: PaimonNoxulifer]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
This is bullshit and I'm going to tell you why.

First you're fifteen and that's really the only reason why I go easy on you on this one; at fifteen people embrace this sort of bullshit, not because it is a solid idea, or because there is truth to it, but because it sounds just so damn great.

But it's a fad and that's all there is to it.

And why is it a fad? Well, look at your life and you'll see the contradiction between the philosophy and your actions.

You're probably not doing very different things from when I was fifteen. What were my favorites back then? Drink, smoke weed and if possible, get laid a lot. See I liked a lot of things when I was young and I liked them very much. This whole anti-cosmic pose is contradicted by the reality of your life; instead of nothingness, you like a a-lot-ness. Even you being here shows nothingness is not high on your priority list.

In fact, every breath you take, every bit you eat or every drop you drink contradicts any true desire for the anti-cosmic. Because really, anyone taking this serious, and I mean serious, would shoot a bullet through their head that very moment. This is not advice mind you, but death is the closest one can come to nothingness.

But you see, none does. They all like life and doing shit too much. And there we have it; a fad.

D.

Top
#64082 - 01/26/12 01:48 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Diavolo]
PaimonNoxulifer Offline
banned, needs to read more and get a clue
stranger


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 9
I beleive in reincarnation. And that complete gnosis is required to break free from the karmic laws that bind me to this cycle.

everything i do is for this beleif. it's an obbsession beyond anything most of you will ever expeirence

Top
#64084 - 01/26/12 02:08 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: PaimonNoxulifer]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: PaimonNoxulifer
I beleive in reincarnation. And that complete gnosis is required to break free from the karmic laws that bind me to this cycle.

everything i do is for this beleif. it's an obbsession beyond anything most of you will ever expeirence


Kid, you're fucking FIFTEEN. I experienced more during the last year than you experienced in your whole life.

Read the replies here and instead of directly dismissing them because you know EVERYTHING already, wonder if people might not be right.

If that's not possible because you're the man, there's little reason for you to be here not? After all, what could you learn?

D.

Top
#64102 - 01/26/12 07:28 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Diavolo]
PaimonNoxulifer Offline
banned, needs to read more and get a clue
stranger


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 9
You don't know me.

I am an adept Vampiric sorceror (what ''laveyans'' might know as pshycich vampires) I am contantly in a meditative state where I absorb the life force energy around me. from humans and all living things) I practice many forms of this art including astral vampirism (astral projecting to feed, or enetering another's dream), sight vampirism, touch vampirism, sanguinarianism. According to Michael W. Ford I am the highest level of vampire, a Varcolaci sorceror. I possess the powers of the evil eye and can enter posionous energies into someone and enter thoughts in their brain.
I'm adept with many forms of chaos magick.
Have successfully killed someone with magick, in a two person ritual.
those are a few examples


I've expeirenced alot


age is not to do with this. I'm not a being of flesh, I'm trapped within flesh.

Paimon well tell me anyones thoughts, and is teaching me telepathy, and he will controll anyone for me, reveal the future, and bend the cosmos to my will. (very FEW examples of what paimon does)

I can learn others magickal techniques.

those are a few examples.

I can learn other's philosphies but am not interested in changing what I KNOW


and sense this is not do with musick i'll say some true musickal bands-

Dissection
Watain
Craft
Arckanum
Bathory
Satanic Warmaster
Drowning the Light
Black Funeral

edit sorry for the double post, internet disconnecte dan dI didn't know teh othe rpost worked. please delete the post above this


the difference is the christian's god generally ingores the christain and has nothing to do with it's life, except to take it's energy. And Satan proved himself to me (undeniable proof, not just evidence) and is consatntly a part of me and my life

and a Christian does know his god is real, becaus ehis god IS REAL




Edited by PaimonNoxulifer (01/26/12 07:36 PM)

Top
#64103 - 01/26/12 07:47 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: PaimonNoxulifer]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
Will someone hit this dude with a brick or something? I think he has watched one to many Vampire movies. For and all powerful Vampire you sure as shit can't spell.

A question for Dracula.

Do you really think you fooling anyone with your non-sense? Is that your goal? Or are you simply bat-shit crazy? ( pun intended)
_________________________
http://satanicinternationalnetwork.com/

Top
#64105 - 01/26/12 07:52 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Zach_Black]
PaimonNoxulifer Offline
banned, needs to read more and get a clue
stranger


Registered: 01/22/12
Posts: 9
My mind is blessed with Satanic madness.

what is called sane is just tamed animals degernated and fucked up

Vampirism is very real, and there is proof of it by aura photography.

Why would I care to fool people on the internet?

I am Dracula, the dragons/devils son

Top
#64107 - 01/26/12 08:00 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: PaimonNoxulifer]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"You don't know me. "

No one likes knowing stupid people.

"I am an adept Vampiric sorceror"

No, you are not. Stop with your stupid pretending cock sucking shit. You have no fucking clue.

"Blah blah blah, Michael Ford....."

Yes, we know him, he used to be an active member here years ago.

Everything else you said is silly since you are 15, and quiet a few of us have been in this for longer than you have been alive.

Oh, how sweet, you have a friend, does he make you suck his cock too during the rituals?

"I'm not a being of flesh, I'm trapped within flesh."

Death is the great release and equalizer, try your luck with that.

"undeniable proof, not just evidence) and is consatntly a part of me and my life
and a Christian does know his god is real, becaus ehis god IS REAL"

Fail, apparently, he doesn't see the need for you to be educated or have a clue.

I think you need a time out so you can go read a book and get a clue.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#64118 - 01/27/12 01:52 AM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Morgan]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
member


Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
Now that Dracula is back in his coffin can we get back to music now?

It seems most people reduce music to the expression of emotion. I think this should be thrown right out the window. Music's nothing but emotion... really? This is to say a musical composer or performer's goal is to make you feel exactly what he's feeling when he writes or plays it? In western music most musicians will feed you this line, whether it's true or not.

It's important to note a lot points people miss when they've been feed a steady diet of commercialized western music.
-Not all music is expressive
-Not all music is human arranged
-Not all music has an intended emotional interpretation
-Emotional interpretations of music are not instinctual or universal, they are conditioned (with the exception of high tempo meaning more excitement) and will very greatly between cultures, generations, and individuals
-The medium presented, stories about the musician/song, album artwork, how much it sounds like something you've heard before, prior explanations, ect will all have an effect on how you interpret music.
-Music often has direct intellectual/conceptual non-emotional stimulation

Many will discount the ideas of John Cage saying he's just being pretentious, insulting composers, his bullshit i ching influence, his idea of taking ego out of music, and that his stuff tends to be unlistenable. (I a huge fan of John Cage and his methods, usually not his performances or compositions themselves)
But when you wipe away all that bullshit you must realize he was showing everything that's wrong with the conditioned western idea of what is and isn't music by extreme example.


In my opinion "music" is the aesthetic interpretation of sound by an individual. What's music to me may not be music to you. Now you may bring up the point that if music can mean anything it means nothing. I agree. "Music" is a broken and meaningless term. It implies there is an objective quality to the sound itself that makes it artistic or special. It's all in the eye of the beholder.


Edited by TV is God (01/27/12 01:54 AM)

Top
#64874 - 02/25/12 02:27 PM Re: Music Divine? [Re: Ankhhape]
namingthestars Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/21/12
Posts: 14
I've never considered myself an especially musical person, but I kind of take for granted the fact that I sing more or less nonstop when I'm alone. I don't feel like "music is my life" like a lot of people seem to, but I enjoy it, and a lot of the time, it can help me to motivate myself to get up and do something. As far as music and Satanism, I like that Satanism has led me to music I might not have started listening to otherwise, like classical, big band, and swing, and there are some radio stations on Radio Free Satan that I listen to often. I don't listen to much metal because I can't stand any music with screaming involved, but Rammstein is one of my favorite bands. And music sometimes feels divine to me, just because there are songs that can bring me to tears--not because they're sad, but because they're beautiful (I'm kind of a little over-receptive to sensory experiences).
Top
Page all of 7 12345>Last »


Moderator:  SkaffenAmtiskaw, fakepropht, TV is God, Woland, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.091 seconds of which 0.003 seconds were spent on 105 queries. Zlib compression disabled.