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#31841 - 11/17/09 05:48 PM Hermetic Order of the Black Sun
Sceevin Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Washington
HOBS, i have been a member of a local chapter for about three months. Before finding this group, the only time i had ever heard mention of it was as a possible connection to the NAZIs and through the Temple of Set. Going to their meetings(few and far between as they are) they do appear to have a lagit founding. But they have a policy of letting members be in contact only with those below them, and then those directly in grade above them.
As for their ritual use, they are more of a generic Atheistic left handed order then specificly belonging to one specific path.
I have been trying to figue out if they really are a real order. The only time i have seen the majority of the members in one place at one time was the last Walpurgisnacht. And all the members there wore black hooded robes with face masks.
The part that struck me as odd, was the fact that they have no plicy against speaking to non members about being a member. Its like they want attention. They just told me not to share the inner rituals.
Does any one know anything about this order?
_________________________
They will all burn in the fires of our black sun
"Engineer, Surgeon, Magician, I AM GOD!"-Rotwang

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#31844 - 11/17/09 06:18 PM Re: Hermetic Order of the Black Sun [Re: Sceevin]
Sonsosatan Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Pacific Northwest
I think perhaps you have stumbled upon Nazi Cultism.

Maybe this is relevant?
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Vril_Society.htm

Mysticism...like going to the circus really.

Ave Satanas!
_________________________
"The death of fear is in doing what you fear to do."

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#31849 - 11/17/09 06:51 PM Re: Hermetic Order of the Black Sun [Re: Sonsosatan]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Cultishness, definitely. One of the main aspects of cultism is in the cloistering of members and admonishing them to not speak to members outside of the group. This insures that they will have people who know THEIR side of things and not much else. It's a common technique that has been used forever... pretty successful too.

I don't know about the Vril Society though, SOS. Those of us who've been around for a while might know of them if we've studied the roots of the Black Order or Germanic occultism. We can only HOPE that there are people out there who still get into the books, although there was a fairly good segment on the Vril in a History Channel documentary.

Good to have you with us... looks like you've done some homework.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#31851 - 11/17/09 07:13 PM Re: Hermetic Order of the Black Sun [Re: Jake999]
Sonsosatan Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Thanks Jake999, it is an honour to be noticed by yourself, you seem to have years of clear thought on your side.
Ritual Cultism seems to have deep roots in our cultures, evidence of their power lay currently over 400' high on the Giza Plateau.
Nudists would not seem to make very good Cultists, since they don't prefer clothing although I am sure they wear hats in this day and age, fearing sun-stroke!
Ritualism is practiced by almost all world religions but often I think the rituals are not what they seem to the outsider. In the case of Tibetan Buddhism much of the ritual is the form of meditation that the monk is trying to master in order to emancipate himself and others from the realm of suffering.
How sexy is the name of this particular cult, the Nazi fathers certainly have a panache about them! Truly defining Hermetic would seem to provide for the deliberate use of esoteric imagery. Black Sun, I would thin in German this term would also invoke the iconography of Yin & Yang and the like.
It is amusing that in this day and age there are those that go through the efforts of ordering and having a seamstress take in a black hooded cloak for the ceremony to which no one is to know about.
The frivolity of it is charming though, adolescent like the ages of these cults members were in the 17, 18 and 19th Centuries.
I don't expect that Jake999 has a purple embroidered hooded cloak outside of a Halloween Costume from years past?!

Ave Satanas!


Edited by Sonsosatan (11/17/09 07:15 PM)
Edit Reason: sloppy typing
_________________________
"The death of fear is in doing what you fear to do."

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#31853 - 11/17/09 07:26 PM Re: Hermetic Order of the Black Sun [Re: Sonsosatan]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
No... but I do have my black robe that was worn during ceremonies at The Melek Taus Chapel and The Black House. I keep it for nostalgia these days, as I don't really care much to indulge in formal ritualizations any more. They have their purpose, mainly in training people to immerse themselves in their total environments and to respect the traditions that have come from before, but life IS a total environment on its own, and I've managed to mindscape and cultivate my personal environment. The rest now is just gravy.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#31854 - 11/17/09 07:52 PM Re: Hermetic Order of the Black Sun [Re: Jake999]
Sonsosatan Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Pacific Northwest
The best thing about Gravy is that it will restore dry meat, it goes great with potatoes and when a biscuit is involved it takes a man back to Grandma's kitchen!
I wonder if there is a cult of the biscuit, oh that's the current American Society isn't it?
Jake999, have you ever written about your journeys in this life in book form, I would like to hear more, as an elder statesman of Satanism I would expect that there would be much to learn from your experiences and your observations of them.
Satanic Memoirs...has a ring to it doesn't it!?
_________________________
"The death of fear is in doing what you fear to do."

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#31857 - 11/17/09 08:48 PM Re: Hermetic Order of the Black Sun [Re: Sonsosatan]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
I've written a lot about my time in Satanism here on the boards. Don't know how interesting it is to others. I've just written what I've seen and what I've found interesting or useable along the way.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#31860 - 11/17/09 08:58 PM Re: Hermetic Order of the Black Sun [Re: Sceevin]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Never heard of them at all. I'm guessing they must take their cue from early Neo-Volkisch (too lazy to find an umlaut here) groups, but it's possible that they're not nazi/fascist related.

Is it a "real order"? If they have real-life gatherings with actual people, they're evidently more "real" than your average Geocities-only magical lodges that seem to be all the rage these days.
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«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#31905 - 11/18/09 04:32 PM Re: Hermetic Order of the Black Sun [Re: The Zebu]
Sceevin Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Washington
the question of whether or not it is real, i was meaning if this was the order that has been refrenced in books of Nazi occultism, or if this grooup is not related. I have been capable of gathering very little information on this specific group.
_________________________
They will all burn in the fires of our black sun
"Engineer, Surgeon, Magician, I AM GOD!"-Rotwang

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#32124 - 11/22/09 11:06 PM Theosophy? [Re: Sceevin]
TheCusp Offline
Douchebag
stranger


Registered: 11/16/09
Posts: 14
I was wondering where you guys rank Theosophy compared to Satanism. Not trying to promote it, I just happened to find some of the topics it covered interesting once upon a time.

The OP reminded me of the time I attended a theosophical discussion group that turned out to be a theosophical lodge. Also turned out to be not so much open discussion as indoctrination. There were some interesting people there, like a university professor who could read and write Sanskrit, but holding hands in a circle for group meditation was just too much to take and I never went back.

I only ask because I left the place with their publication "the light bearer" or light bringer had a luciferian ring to it, even though it was filled with garbage.

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#32142 - 11/23/09 12:49 PM Re: Theosophy? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
Our esteemed Setian member, Dr. Aquino, holds an interest in the theosophical pursuits, and my own interests in the field are limited to the literary and the memetic. I cannot give the theosophical discipline any credence beyond that for the simple reason that it is forcing the student's hand by presupposing an ulterior cause to all the earth's religions, namely a *real* divine force.

My interest probably stopped short of yours. Clear from the outset that HPB was a wacko & con artist who could write enough flowery fantasy to attract, well, "the usual suckers". [How someone as smart as Iyer got involved is anyone's guess.]

There are a number of what could loosely be called "metaphysical societies" around, of course, from the serious & sincere to the farcical & fraudulent. Some are initiatory. Some are magical. Some have at least some wise things to say mixed in with the dingdong. Most are harmless and even socially beneficial. Some like the People's Temple & Heaven's Gate & the "OTO Solar Lodge" can be dangerous/lethal.

Some consider themselves religions in competition with/contrast to conventional religions. Some profess that they are not religions, mostly in an effort to avoid persecution and also to attract religion-affiliated members.

If there is a common "mystery" underlying all such enterprises & efforts, it is simply that while science can increasingly explain the "how" of universal existence & order, it cannot explain why such a complete, universal, integrated, and intricate UE should be at all [as opposed to either nothing or a something of random chaos]. So people hypothesize gods/God as the cause/"prime mover"/"watchmaker" (or cosmic sadomasochist, take your pick), and then it's just a question of coloring in the dots for your favorite iconography.

Atheists generally feel that the "why" is fundamentally inexplicable, or at least beyond their brainpower, so they take the comforting position that the question shouldn't be asked; therefore it "doesn't exist". Sort of Orwellian "crimestop". Agnostics allow the question to be asked, just confess they can't, theoretically "yet", answer it. So they're off the same hook, just a little less dogmatically.

As for "atheistic Satanism", I still think that it is transparently merely an excuse for atheists yearning for "cocktail-party glamour" to try to steal some from the delicious imagery of Judæo-Christian Devil worship. And that is somewhere between silly and pathetic, since it just lays all the more bare the dullness and drabness of "honest" Atheism. The 600 Club wouldn't last a week without Satan to color itself with, the Goat of Mendes atop its mainpage. [Prove me wrong: Eliminate the imagery and the affected "Satanic"/"Satanism" jargon in all posts, and see if it survives.]

The impulse behind authentic Satanism is essentially the complement to that underlying universal-metaphysical efforts (such as Theosophy, or at least Iyer's refreshment of it); it apprehends and idealizes individual/isolate presence & consciousness against that "universal everything-else" and seeks not only to fully comprehend it, but to fully actualize & express it. That's "Satan", Set, or whatever other term one utters to represent it.

 Originally Posted By: Anton LaVey, 1973
In fact, is that demon within each of us really an enemy, as we have so long been taught? Or will it be recognized as the guiding spirit of enlightenment which it actually is? You must remember that the word daimon does not imply “evil”, but simply a “guiding spirit”, a “motivating spirit”.

Man must quit kidding himself. Only when he emancipates himself from dubious interpretations of good and evil - when he can truly rise above good and evil, beyond good and evil, realizing that these terms are probably the most relative terms in his existence; when he can accept the long, obscene name of “Satan” [because that is a dirty word, “Satan” - the occult world seems to find it even more so]; when he can accept this word, this name into his vocabulary as a sound to be honored - then he will be free! Until then he will walk in fear of the very scapegoat he has created, and his potential guide will remain his nemesis.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#32145 - 11/23/09 01:08 PM Re: Theosophy? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
As for "atheistic Satanism", I still think that it is transparently merely an excuse for atheists yearning for "cocktail-party glamour" to try to steal some from the delicious imagery of Judæo-Christian Devil worship. And that is somewhere between silly and pathetic, since it just lays all the more bare the dullness and drabness of "honest" Atheism. The 600 Club wouldn't last a week without Satan to color itself with, the Goat of Mendes atop its mainpage. [Prove me wrong: Eliminate the imagery and the affected "Satanic"/"Satanism" jargon in all posts, and see if it survives.]


Do we really need to be starting in with this again? Maybe you went into Satanism looking for "cocktail-party glamour" but that doesn't mean all of "us" had the same motivations.

You wanna know what I think is silly and pathetic; grown men who talk to imaginary friends. Actually, you can go ahead and remove "silly" from that because it is really just pathetic.

I wonder how long ToS would last if all mentions of Set were removed. I bet a strip club wouldn't last very long either if they got rid of the strippers. The bar down the street from my house would close down right quick if they stopped serving alcohol.

I realize some people may be somewhat "star-struck" as to your presence here but IDGAF who you are or what you have done. So you were in CoS a million years ago and started ToS - BFD - I am not so easily impressed.

To me it seems like you have a bone to pick with Satanism. If you take so much issue with "Atheistic Satanism" one wonders why you decide to become a member of a site that champions it. That is like Jesse Jackson joining the KKK or Elton John singing with the Westboro Baptist Church.
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No gods. No masters.

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#32149 - 11/23/09 02:27 PM Re: Theosophy? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
[quote=6Satan6Archist6]
 Quote:
If you take so much issue with "Atheistic Satanism" one wonders why you decide to become a member of a site that champions it.

I don't take issue with it - just acknowledge it for what it actually is, as everyone here knows too. Some, as Anton quoth so very often, just can't bring themselves to admit it. It puzzled him, and me, why this curious mixture of "need" and "brittleness". He finally shrugged it off, and where "Satan/Satanism" is concerned, I generally do too. Linus is happy with his blanket; why should I be Snoopy and snatch it away from him?

I visit the 600 Club both out of historical interest and because underneath much of the "atheistic Satanism"-chanting (which reminds me ever so much of the "we're-witches-not-satanists!" mantra of the Wiccans), I see lots of authentic Satanic genius struggling, frequently very eloquently and thoughtfully, to express itself. I like that, and if it means putting up with nervous Atheist-disclaimers along the way, so what? The Satanists here will eventually get over that.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#32150 - 11/23/09 02:33 PM Re: Theosophy? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230


_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#32152 - 11/23/09 03:23 PM Re: Theosophy? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Just gonna throw in my four cents (...damn inflation)

I'm an Atheist because I see no definitve, objective proof of any deity. Asking the question "Why did the universe begin?" (etc.) to me is like asking why rocks erode or why stars blow up: it's assigning conscious causation (something happened, something must have done it, that thing must have had a reason) to something that requires no conscious causation in the first place...yes, the rocks erode, they do that due to the rain and wind, but there need not have been a person planning on sending rain, etc. that way in order to do it.

If a person, for some reason, decides that there was a conscious cause, upon observation of the objective universe, one would logically come up with deism. Following current scientific thought, such a being would basically be a computer programmer: before time, this guy made a universe using a system of rules, hit the "play" button on his Cosmic Computer, and set the program in run. After the program is in run, there isn't much he can do to change it that wouldn't alter the entire program. And if he did that, we wouldn't even be capable of knowing about it, because the original would have been erased throughout all time and the replacement would appear, to us, as the original. Even with such a model as this, there's no way to prove the existence of our programmer-god, and I would have to ask the question on why would we worship (or even acknowledge) such a being. You say militant atheists have a problem with people asking why. I don't...I just ask them "why ask why?"

The requirement for belief in a personal deity (or other supernatural power) would require some sort of subjective evidence; something Christians may call a conversion experience. If you have some such conversion experience, than I can't touch you, and more power to you. Something happened to you that defies logical, natural, objective-universe explanation, and if it did, more power to you. I've never had such an experience that I couldn't explain with simpler mechanisms (Occam's Razor), so I don't believe. I will admit that part of me is jealous that I haven't had such an experience, and were such an experience to occur, I would become an instant believer.

So, with that in mind, why am I a Satanist as well? Well, the philosophy really appeals to me. And I like the aesthetics, so yeah, I guess I am just stealing Christian symbolism (...oh, like they didn't steal their imagery first). I have yet to be invited to a cocktail party or had wild orgies, so that's not my reasoning, although if I were, I would say that's a rather nice fringe benefit...

I'll end with a quote from Will:

[q]"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."[/q]
_________________________
~~CJ
"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
-Ayn Rand

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