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#32748 - 12/10/09 08:26 AM Re: Condescending Witches [Re: Samuel Hain]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
I just acquired A WITCHE'S BIBLE by Janet and Stewart Farrar. I will check out any belief system if it will expand my own knowledge. So far, after over a third of a century of studying the craft, I have found that I am most comfortable as a solitary practitioner. The agendas of other people are usually not in harmony with my own. Why should they be? It's not that I don't enjoy helping others. It's just that I cannot be much of an assistance to others if it costs me my own well being.
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#32808 - 12/12/09 01:58 AM Re: Condescending Witches [Re: Satansfarm]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
I don't necessarily get along with people just because they profess to be Satanists or other LHP. People who use the Christian concept of the devil as the personification of evil just don't get it as far as I am concerned. Yes, I believe in following my desires, but I am not in favor of anyone who thinks that means, well just go into the street and kill anyone you see because you feel like it. I am a responsible person. I pay my bills on time.
People that are irresponsible, that cannot meet their commitments
and just want the entire world to revolve around their slightest whims are definitely not in my cool book. I resent anyone trying to shove their lifestyle down my throat. I don't care if they are Christian, Wiccan, Satanist, or Buddhist. Still, I encounter these kinds people more frequently than I do the ones who I can really get along with.

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#32853 - 12/13/09 09:37 AM Re: Condescending Witches [Re: Satansfarm]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
Dimitri, I agree that stereotypes of just about every belief system dominate the media. I think the main reason is that the media is generally not interested in spreading truth but in making money. To make money, they draw a large audience by giving the audience what it wants. What the masses want is something quick, easily digestible and entertaining. Stereotypes fit the bill. LaVey recognized this, playing to stereotypes in the media while practicing a more serious form of Satanism in private.

Satansfarm, I too prefer to practice my ever-evolving belief system in solitude. I’ve found that it gives me more flexibility. I was in an LHP organization a short while back, and I found that what I liked most about it was the forum – a large and active forum. But I can get my forum fix here. This is a much better situation for me.

I agree that Satanism means following one’s desires, even if it means doing something that others may find repugnant. The irony is that acknowledging this freedom has resulted in me becoming what many would consider to be a “better” person. I also pay my bills on time, not because it’s “right” – a vague word that essentially means nothing – but because it’s smart. I help others not because it’s “right” but because I enjoy helping others. Recognizing the inherent selfishness in everything I do makes things so much clearer.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#32858 - 12/13/09 12:03 PM Re: Condescending Witches [Re: William Wright]
Natalia666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Alabama
hi, this is actually my first real post. I have a background in witchcraft/paganism and can relate to the subject. First and foremost I typically can't stand dogma of any kind. To me, dogma is a sure sign of ignorance in a belief system or person.

I think it worth differentiating witches from wiccans. Yes most wiccans refer to themselves as witches, although I've known a few who dislike the term (who knows). But not all witches give a rip about wicca. Personally I refer to this as "old school" and "new school". Or rather, Pagans versus Wiccans. Older witches, 'pre-wiccan', are pretty serious and realistic people. Perhaps this is the separation of fluff and non-fluff? The Witch's Bible I find to be a solid look at Paganism, not Wicca.

Stereotypes are what they are. What I find fascinating is when people live up to a stereotype (self-fulfilling perhaps?) Which is really a whole other topic. Satanists obviously get a fierce blow from this. A few whack jobs burn down a church or kill someone, it ends up on the news, and then the whole philosophy is branded. I've also found many witches and wiccans look down on Satanists. But what I have truly noticed is they pidgeonhole Satanists. They stamp the whole philosophy because of only a few they ran into to instead of looking deeper.
_________________________
"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman."
-Simone De Beauvoir




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#32864 - 12/13/09 02:35 PM Re: Condescending Witches [Re: Natalia666]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
Stereotypes are what they are. What I find fascinating is when people live up to a stereotype (self-fulfilling perhaps?) Which is really a whole other topic. Satanists obviously get a fierce blow from this. A few whack jobs burn down a church or kill someone, it ends up on the news, and then the whole philosophy is branded. I've also found many witches and wiccans look down on Satanists. But what I have truly noticed is they pidgeonhole Satanists. They stamp the whole philosophy because of only a few they ran into to instead of looking deeper.

People always tend to live up to a stereotype. It is almost a natural thing to do. To belong to a certain group of people, a person tries every aspect as described by the mass which is considered "typical" for that certain group of people. It is only by passing this stage that the true knowledge and know-how is being discoverd. The various kicks and punches the person receives from the so-called "elite" or "true" people within the group are the theoretical "educational slaps" a student receives before they really learn something...

Then again, some will not, cannot and shall never learn things decently by loss of interest or by sheer ignorance.



When referring yourself to the label of Satanist, the stereotype of a church-burning, dark-dressed, child-raping rocker is just one of the aspects you get for free from the masses whom are unaware or doesn't have a clue about Satanism.
It is the reason why most of us tend to avoid the word, despite of the factual truth.
And to be honest, I like it that way.

If someone starts whining, bitching about it; then maybe the person should have thought twice about it.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#33041 - 12/18/09 11:22 AM Re: Condescending Witches [Re: Dimitri]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
I was working one day in a shop and there was a crew installing some equipment. One of the men left his wallet. I looked inside and there was cash, credit cards. I said, "Oh wow, " and turned it in to the manager. I said to him, "This guy is lucky to get all this back." I didn't touch a thing. I went back to my post. A little while later, the manager came back and fired me. He said that my remark meant that I was thinking about stealing, so he couldn't trust me. I called him an asshole and split. About a week later, The owner called me back. It seems that the manager was robbing the place blind.
Transference is the psychological term for when people blame others for what they are doing themselves. Often the people who accuse me of wrongdoing are lacking themselves. I ran into this condescending witch a few weeks ago. She really could run her mouth on how deplorable others were and how great she was. The glaring fact was that we had a business deal and she just could not follow through on her end. Rather than admit it and of course, refund my money, she just went into this long tirade of how superior her belief system was to mine.
I am not an expert on predicting the future or human nature. I am just going to have to chalk this one up as a loss and find some other solution to my business problem. I am also going to have to be alot tighter with my money.

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#33101 - 12/21/09 02:15 AM Re: Condescending Witches [Re: Satansfarm]
PeteOfTheDead Offline
member


Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Brunswick, Melbourne, Victoria...
Years ago I read a book by Fiona Horne called Witch : a personal journey. Her books are poppy 'my first Wicca book' affairs- she's written books for young people about Wicca.

Anyway, in the book I just mentioned she discusses the myth that witches are neccesarily Satan-worshippers and she includes a very good interview with actual Satanists. Two members of the Temple Of Set say some VERY interesting stuff.

I once had the displeasure of meeting a male Wiccan who had a condescending attitude about most anyone who wasn't him! :P He stated up front that he thought he was better than me :S .


Edited by PeteOfTheDead (12/21/09 02:16 AM)
_________________________
"The snake will always bite back."
"Every moment is an experience."
Jake 'The Snake' Roberts


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#33116 - 12/21/09 03:18 PM Re: Condescending Witches [Re: PeteOfTheDead]
Natalia666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Alabama
I believe a great deal of condescending or discrimination is based on ignorance of the matter. Christians damn Satanism without understanding the first detail about it. Rather than study it Objectively, they depend on Subjective emotions and ideas, usually not factual.

I had an experience recently with a witch who acted critically toward Satanism, saying she didn't want such in her house. This was odd to me. This lady has cursed people in the worst ways before but now shes going to sneer at Satanism? Literally chicken hearts, blood, and hair to curse a person. Yet sneer at Satanism?

Years ago she said there was a Satanic Bible before the one we have today. I suppose it existed in the sixties or seventies. Supposedly it contained brutal and violence sacrifices and rituals. The book today is a 'watered down' version of the original. The Satanists she knew and got involved with were sadistic and cruel. Then another witch friend of hers spoke of Satanists she knew who haunted her in her dreams, drained her energy, and tried to seduce her. There are crazy people in every philosophy/sect. But despising a whole philosophy based on this? If such even happened or such a book even existed. People, especially the irrational, confuse me to no end.

Believe me, I've heard horror stories from witches about Satanists. After studying the LHP and Satanism, meeting the people, its about the most rational and intelligent philosophy out of any concerning the "occult". Let them believe what they will. I prefer objective facts over subjective imagination.
_________________________
"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman."
-Simone De Beauvoir




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#33117 - 12/21/09 03:49 PM Re: Condescending Witches [Re: Natalia666]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Natalia666

Years ago she said there was a Satanic Bible before the one we have today. I suppose it existed in the sixties or seventies. Supposedly it contained brutal and violence sacrifices and rituals. The book today is a 'watered down' version of the original. The Satanists she knew and got involved with were sadistic and cruel.


The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey from the 60's and 70's is the exact same one you would have today, with the exception that it could be paperback... most of them are and there are few hard covers around to be had... or the introduction has changed. The Satanic Bible itself has not changed.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#33118 - 12/21/09 03:54 PM Re: Condescending Witches [Re: Natalia666]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Natalia666

I had an experience recently with a witch who acted critically toward Satanism, saying she didn't want such in her house. This was odd to me. This lady has cursed people in the worst ways before but now shes going to sneer at Satanism? Literally chicken hearts, blood, and hair to curse a person.


Chicken hearts, blood and hair. How quaint.

Idiots abound. If you don't run into them, consider yourself lucky. If you DO run into them, as you apparently have, shed yourself of them as quickly as possible. Stupidity can be contagious.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#33123 - 12/21/09 07:35 PM Satanic Bible/Rituals Editions Continuity [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey from the 60's and 70's is the exact same one you would have today, with the exception that it could be paperback... most of them are and there are few hard covers around to be had... or the introduction has changed. The Satanic Bible itself has not changed.

In the later paperbacks the dedications-page for both the SB & the SR is missing. Too bad, because there were some great gems to be mined in following up those names. See Appendix #13 of The Church of Satan for a detailed discussion.

Incidentally, in the University Books hardcover edition of the SB & SR, if you look closely you will see that only the SB Introduction is fresh-typeset. Everything else is a blown-up photocopy from the Avon paperback edition pages.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#33125 - 12/21/09 07:57 PM Re: Satanic Bible/Rituals Editions Continuity [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Thanks for reminding me about that... I was of course referring to the meat of the book itself, but reading the names of the dedication was something that could definitely make your mind start to wander.

When I refer to mine, I always pick up my autographed, custom bound one... have several around, but I like the feel of it and it always brings back fond memories.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#33220 - 12/24/09 08:50 PM Re: Satanic Bible/Rituals Editions Continuity [Re: Jake999]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
I took a stroll around my neighborhood today. What a mess it is. People are just edgy as hell, acting weird and drama ridden. I am so looking forward to tomorrow's Black X Mas with Karla LaVey. There is a sense of relief to be around like minded people, as diverse as we may be. Since my grandmother gave me my first Satanic Bible decades ago, I feel a sense of family at these gatherings. It is interesting to talk to the young ones and see how Anton LaVey's philosophy is affecting their lives.
I suppose it is a natural human inclination to butt heads over anything. There is something about the raw energy of a good rock band playing loud to knock away bad feelings generated by petty human squabbling.

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#33922 - 01/13/10 03:32 AM Re: Condescending Witches [Re: Samuel Hain]
Miss May Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 66
Loc: sebastopol, CA
Pagans and wiccans believe in gods and goddesses. There are many branches and variations. Some of them probably do look at satanists as the bad guy. Christians may believe that satan is the bad guy and their god is the good guy. what do you expect?
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