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#34673 - 01/27/10 06:00 PM Re: Is It Necessary To Self-Identify As A Satanist? [Re: TheInsane]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I think the answer to the question in the OP is quite obviously 'yes'. Although one may be born into 'the right stuff' it takes to be a Satanist, without that resonance with the dark side and further the willful designation of that label on to yourself, you aren't a Satanist. Accepting and claiming that title is part and parcel.
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#37445 - 04/07/10 10:57 PM Re: Is It Necessary To Self-Identify As A Satanist? [Re: Dan_Dread]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
Although I said that I like to think of myself as above labels, upon further reflection I think labels can and do serve a valuable purpose. Labels give us something to live up to or overcome. When we label ourselves, we tell the world (or at least ourselves), “This is who I am.” It’s something we can latch onto, something meaningful to attach to the face in the mirror.

I said I thought of myself as a Self and a Seeker. Perfectly fine labels…but I’m choosing a new label, and that label is Satanist. I’m calling myself a Satanist because I identify with Satan as a symbol of free will and rebellion against the status quo. I’m calling myself a Satanist because deep down inside I know it’s who I am and who I’ve always been. I look forward to exploring the magical possibilities of this label as it applies to me.

I am a Satanist.
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#37460 - 04/08/10 07:48 PM Re: Is It Necessary To Self-Identify As A Satanist? [Re: William Wright]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
member


Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
A person's height and weight are concrete provable testable concepts Whether or not a person is satanic is not. I think the idea that we have to have a definite criteria and testable standard of who is or isn't satanic is just silly because it's something humans made up.

If I want to think my dog's satanic then hell my dog's a satanist. Why not? She doesn't believe in god and acts with a very carnal philosophy. My point is something that's a man made abstraction can only be determined by man made abstract standards which are purely subjective.

If I decided Anton LaVey wasn't a satanist it doesn't change a thing about his mind or physical structure. I can believe this or that with no scale or method. Whatever I believe is true to me because there's nothing about it outside my own mind.

The only reason I can see to even bother asking whether or not you should conciser yourself or someone else is a satanist is if you have doubts and insecurity about it. Meaning you require the approval of others for personal belief. CONTRADICTION.

If you think they act in a satanic way then call them a satanist. Don't use anybody else's standard and don't expect anybody else to use yours. And for that matter stop worrying about whether or not something is labeled at all. Whether or not you think your buddy Joe is a satanist isn't going to change what Joe is.

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#37462 - 04/08/10 11:55 PM Re: Is It Necessary To Self-Identify As A Satanist? [Re: TV is God]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



This is an interesting approach, but runs into a bit of a snag I think.

This philosophy is still considered to be rather controversial and individuals who come out and announce themselves as Satanists to the world are still going to risk themselves to some extent. They may risk careers, they may risk relationships with family and friends, and they may be in danger from religious ratbags and other ignorant people.

Imagine trying to act as a representative of a Satanic organisation to the media, particularly during the 1980’s. Agents, I imagine, would have had to very carefully and thoroughly defend themselves and their philosophy against claims like the following: Satanist’s torture and sacrifice animals and harm children! Satanist’s commit murder and damage property and have no respect for the law!

How do you contest these outrageous lies and slanders and set the record straight?

The answer: there must be a body of literature which delineates and defines what Satanism is. And, of course, there is such a body of literature. It was written by Dr. LaVey and it is publicly available, so all can access it and so there can be no, or at the very least little, misunderstanding of the principles of Satanism and who Satanist’s basically are.

I do not feel the need to fight or rebel against this philosophy of Dr. LaVey’s as it is broad and flexible and does not constrain me. I like to label myself as a Satanist, as I feel that this is the label which suits me best and I am glad Will has decided to do so as well.

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#37487 - 04/10/10 12:16 AM Re: Is It Necessary To Self-Identify As A Satanist? [Re: TV is God]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
TV, it’s true that Satanism can mean anything to anybody, that whatever you believe is true because there’s nothing outside your own mind. But to have any kind of meaningful dialogue, we must have a common frame of reference. We cannot, for instance, reasonably discuss the sun if to you the word means grass. We must both agree that “sun” refers to that big yellow ball in the sky that keeps us warm.

Similarly, taking the view that Satanism means anything/everything/nothing renders the word meaningless. Why discuss Satanism at all? Why not call it grass or the sun or Dr. Pepper? I agree with Matthew, as I’m sure many others here do, that Dr. LaVey’s teachings provide a basic framework for what is commonly understood as modern Satanism. Others are certainly free to think differently, but with all due respect the “Satanism is whatever you want it to be” argument is pointless. Anything is whatever you want it to be. So what?
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#37488 - 04/10/10 02:10 AM Re: Is It Necessary To Self-Identify As A Satanist? [Re: William Wright]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
I didn't really mean that Satanism is whatever you want it to be. What I meant to say was that whether or not you choose to self identify as or call others satanist isn't important to who or what they are. Satanist is just a title somebody came up with. I suppose I would agree that you have to self identify to be concidered a satanist in technicality.

I suppose the debate in my mind is over whether or not someone is a satanist in technicality or in practice. I'm sure there are plenty of people with a satanic philosphy and way of life that have never identified with Satanism. People who are satanists in practice but not in technicality arn't significantly different from people who identify as Satanists.

So in terms of semantics I would agree that you have to self identify as a satanist but this is an unimportant and misleading point of semantics. So if a person is a satanist-type person I'll call them a satanist-type person for more practical labeling.

That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

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#37685 - 04/16/10 06:21 PM Re: Is It Necessary To Self-Identify As A Satanist? [Re: Morbid Rex]
spinosaurus01 Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/24/10
Posts: 14
Satanism could be a label in the sense that the old Pagan religions were labeled "Satanism" by the church to keep people away from them but that obviously doesn't apply to any of you because you're not Pagans. Satan is Hebrew for adversary as you know, and "Sat" were it comes from is Sanskrit for truth. Now it's obvious these two things apply to you, truth and being an adversary to the church. In that sense is it really wrong to be labeled a Satanist? Were as a "Christian" would be a minion of Christ and someone who follows his teachings blindly. Satanism as a label is not a bad thing. It's a compliment if anything.
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#37812 - 04/18/10 06:09 PM Re: Is It Necessary To Self-Identify As A Satanist? [Re: Morbid Rex]
satanictemple Offline
lurker


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 3
 Originally Posted By: Morbid Rex
Is it really necessary in order to be one? When I first decided to take Satanism seriously (as in, completely destroy the Christian values that had been placed on me since I was a child), I scowered the internet for as much information as I could and read The Satanic Bible until the main points were completely absorbed. But I couldn't help but feel the constant self-label of a Satanist was limiting, as I felt it put me into a box a little. If Satan is something thats truly inside of you as a symbolic label and psychological aspect as your being, then it is something that is a part of you, thats as indistinguishable from your being as how many fingers and toes you have.

Thus, is the label really necessary?


It depends, I suppose, on whether you are a symbolic Satanist (which I assume you are from what you write above) or a theistic Satanist, as I am. For me, being "Satanic" is not something that is just inside of me, a part of who I am, but it is who I choose to be as a worshiper of the very real spiritual being, Satan. I own my choice as a Satan worshiper when I label myself as a Satanist, and this is extremely important to me.
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http://templeofsatan.wordpress.com/

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#37861 - 04/19/10 11:14 AM Re: Is It Necessary To Self-Identify As A Satanist? [Re: satanictemple]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
Satanic Temple, Theistic Satanists are, of course, welcome here. In fact, the world’s most prominent Theistic Satanist (or Setian, as he calls himself) Michael Aquino recently made quite a splash here, and many (including myself) were disappointed when he left.

I suspect that you mean no disrespect when you use the label “symbolic Satanist” to refer to those who don’t believe in a literal Satan. However, the label could be taken to mean not a real Satanist, just a symbolic one. A more appropriate label, I think, is Atheistic Satanist.

One clear distinction between Aquino and you is that he has never once mentioned worship with regard to his alleged interaction with the Prince of Darkness. To most people here, worship of an external deity is considered antithetical to Satanism. What does worship mean to you? (Please don’t say, “The answer is on my website.” Please answer in a post so that we can have a discussion.) Why do you feel compelled to worship Satan? Why do you think he would want you to worship him?
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In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#37922 - 04/20/10 08:20 AM Re: Is It Necessary To Self-Identify As A Satanist? [Re: William Wright]
satanictemple Offline
lurker


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 3
 Originally Posted By: William Wright
Satanic Temple, Theistic Satanists are, of course, welcome here. In fact, the world’s most prominent Theistic Satanist (or Setian, as he calls himself) Michael Aquino recently made quite a splash here, and many (including myself) were disappointed when he left.

I suspect that you mean no disrespect when you use the label “symbolic Satanist” to refer to those who don’t believe in a literal Satan. However, the label could be taken to mean not a real Satanist, just a symbolic one. A more appropriate label, I think, is Atheistic Satanist.

One clear distinction between Aquino and you is that he has never once mentioned worship with regard to his alleged interaction with the Prince of Darkness. To most people here, worship of an external deity is considered antithetical to Satanism. What does worship mean to you? (Please don’t say, “The answer is on my website.” Please answer in a post so that we can have a discussion.) Why do you feel compelled to worship Satan? Why do you think he would want you to worship him?


Thank you for your post, and I certainly do not mean any disrespect. When I write "symbolic Satanist," I feel I am using the language that many non-theistic Satanists themselves use, and only mean it to refer to their view of Satan as a symbol, not that they themselves are symbolic. I am sure atheistic Satanists take their Satanic philosophy just as seriously as any of the rest of us.

Why do I use the term worship? For me, worship equals allegiance and a willingness to freely give of one's time, energy and resources by following the example of and respecting a deity. It is not slavery for me, not coerced, but a free giving of myself in order to become a divine Self. This is my theistic Satanic understanding, anyway. I would very much like a conversation along these lines here. Hail Satan!
_________________________
P.D. Payne
http://templeofsatan.wordpress.com/

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#37964 - 04/21/10 02:56 PM Re: Is It Necessary To Self-Identify As A Satanist? [Re: satanictemple]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
ST, I don’t share your belief in a literal Satan. However I respect those who do, provided they are sincere and don’t come across as condescending and\or pushy. Before he left, Dr. Aquino made what I thought was an excellent point: Belief in Satanism transcends belief or non-belief in Satan.

To me, Satanism can be summed up in that Pentagram beside your name: I am the star in my circle; you are the star in yours. Satan is a representation of our godhood, to the extent that we recognize it and exercise it. Satanism is about self empowerment, which Aquino imagined Satan himself would declare.
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In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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