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#3241 - 01/09/08 01:11 PM life after death
Bridgett Leavitt Offline
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what happens to the "soul" of a satanist when they die? what happens to a NON-satanist when one dies? I need more than LaVey offers in The Satanic Bible; "Life After Death Through Fullfillment of the Ego". Anyone with any insight to this question, i encourage you to respond!
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#3245 - 01/09/08 02:59 PM Re: life after death [Re: Bridgett Leavitt]
Sinistar Offline
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Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
According to "Al Jilwah: The Black Book of Satan": Satan may "send a person a second or third time into the world or into some other by the transmigration of souls."

As for non-Satanists, I'm not sure. Guess we'll all find out eventually. Great question, though.
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#3247 - 01/09/08 03:17 PM Re: life after death [Re: Bridgett Leavitt]
Octavius Offline
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Personally, I don't believe in a "soul." Whether it's called a soul or spirit, it's my belief that the concept itself is, albeit understandable, a construct of fear. Nobody likes the idea of nothingness after death. The idea of a a yummy reward after life is so much nicer.

However, the concept of some kind of existence after death is not entirely implausible. I do, however, disagree that our complete consciousness gets to scuttle off to the Happy Hunting Grounds for an eternity of joy-joy happy-fun-time. The idea that we are all comprised of immortal elemental energy seems more likely...how to correctly transcend this existence into another is the challenge. I think that Uncle Anton was on the right track with his statement, but ego fulfillment is only a small piece of the equation.

This is merely my opinion.
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#3248 - 01/09/08 03:53 PM Re: life after death [Re: Octavius]
Bridgett Leavitt Offline
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Registered: 01/07/08
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in my opinon, this "immortal elemental energy" you speek of is the very "soul" in which you dont believe in. You confused me by saying that there may be nothing but blackness after death, then you mention transcending from this existence into another. Which do you truely believe in ....black nothingness or something else. Please elaborate.
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#3249 - 01/09/08 04:11 PM Re: life after death [Re: Bridgett Leavitt]
x.emo.danny.x Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 40
Being a former Catholic and Christian, I have very mixed emotions on this subject. Because every religion I have spent real time in, its hard for me to consider the idea of "black". I think there's something after death. I think the only way for mankind to find out is to continue to call upon the "spirits" or "demons" or whatever you care to call them.
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#3250 - 01/09/08 04:59 PM Re: life after death [Re: Bridgett Leavitt]
Yaksha Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
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Loc: Los Angeles,Ca
Some believe that when we die there is nothing.There are those who believe in reincarnation or even immortality in the astral universe.I think that the best way to make peace with this issue is to find an explanation that works for you because the only way you are really gona know is when your time comes.
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#3251 - 01/09/08 05:17 PM Re: life after death [Re: x.emo.danny.x]
Octavius Offline
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I believe that whatever it is that comprises our complete consciousness is lost upon death. The energy that made up our body is transcended into another, completely different state of existence. Every single living thing is unique...there has never been nor will there ever be another me, another centepede that currently lives in my bathroom, another tree like the one under my bedroom window, etc. This uniqueness in and of itself doesn't lend itself to the theory that we live on after death, come back as another being, or any other theory.

The challenge for sentient beings is to somehow retain the organizational pattern of energy that comprises their own uniqueness beyond this existence. "Immortal elemental energy" is merely the atoms and energy that make us who we are, but has existed for billions of years before it reorganized into this corporeal form. The claims that people have had over the millennia with regard to ghosts, spirits, spooks, etc. are all creations of their own reality. If you really want to see a ghost, you'll see one. That doesn't offer any tangible proof that there is any kind of afterlife.

I don't pretend to know how to transcend this life. I don't even think it's possible, at least not in the "afterlife" or "reincarnation" sense. I do, however, think there may be more to this particular expression of energy and I may even have the tools to find a metaphysical explanation of a more complete transition. Whether or not that encompasses my unique and complete consciousness...not likely. Then again, life is but a dream.
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#3253 - 01/09/08 05:24 PM Re: life after death [Re: Octavius]
x.emo.danny.x Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
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Very intresting Octavious. Are you saying that ghosts spirits and demons are figments of ones imagination? Does mean that if I REALLY wanted it to happen I could make my dead friends spirit appear? I dont think I fully understand you.
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#3258 - 01/09/08 05:45 PM Re: life after death [Re: x.emo.danny.x]
Octavius Offline
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Sure. You can make anything you want really happen if you REALLY want it to happen. You create your own reality. However, your reality is not like others. Don't expect others to see what you can...

Just be careful to differentiate between delusion and reality. This is all VERY theoretical metaphysics. I've seen it work in my life to incredible ends. Although I'd certainly expect nothing but skepticism from just about everyone with regard to this line of thinking. There are those, however, who are willing to entertain certain possibilities. To those people, the world changes and reality twists to suit their desire.
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#3265 - 01/09/08 06:38 PM Re: life after death [Re: Bridgett Leavitt]
Evil Lucy Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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Loc: La Mesa, California, USA
Though I am a Satanist, I do believe in the Hindu belief of re-incarnation, I mean some people have had therapy and even dreams that show that they had lived in previous lives. I don't see it as so far fetched, I don't know if there is a Heaven or a Hell, I think you keep going, until your soul is done, and when it's done, it's just like being eternally asleep
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#3282 - 01/10/08 12:29 AM Re: life after death [Re: Bridgett Leavitt]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
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The enlightened realize that since we are all going to die what does it matter? Worrying about an afterlife now is not worth the time, what can you gain? What would you change? Are those changes worth making now anyway?

Are you afraid that should you renounce your faith that your soul will burn in eternal hellfire? Or do you believe that doing good will get you eternal happiness? Are you struggling to overcome this hurdle of fear?

Think of death being darkness and nothing that way if there is something you will be surprised… I am just hoping that the brain does not stay active on any conscious level through the embalming process or very long after death…

EDIT: Imagine 12 hours of laying there holy shit I am dead… Perhaps that is hell, laying there wanting the things you missed doing…

~T~


Edited by ta2zz (01/10/08 12:32 AM)
Edit Reason: marked
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#3288 - 01/10/08 05:51 AM Re: life after death [Re: ta2zz]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
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Nothing. That's the answer. Nothing happens to the hypothetical "soul". Worry about living your life, making each day worthwhile and enjoying life now and worry about the afterlife if and when you end up standing at those pearly gates.

Plenty of time to think about the soul after your dead, and if there isn't, who the fuck cares? You're dead!
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#3296 - 01/10/08 11:34 AM Re: life after death [Re: TornadoCreator]
birdstrike Offline
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Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
What real difference does it make? There is no way to know so in the end it's whatever helps you sleep at night. Some choose the route of "you die and thats it". Others prefer to believe in an afterlife or reincarnation. I say you'll find out when you get there. No point worrying about it now. Whatever happens is completely inevitable and none of us, nor anybody knows whats next if anything! You sure as hell can't do anything about it whatever the case.
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#3299 - 01/10/08 12:13 PM Re: life after death [Re: birdstrike]
Octavius Offline
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I believe a large degree of agnosticism is needed when dealing with this issue. However, an apathetic stance limits your understanding and knowledge of the world you live in. Answers like "Why bother? Who cares? What difference does it make?" only prove that you're not mentally able to entertain theories beyond your current level of education. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but as soon as you become stagnant in those beliefs, you cheating yourself out of knowledge, power, success, health and more. One need not "worry" about the alleged afterlife in order to entertain the notion.

Edited by Octavius (01/10/08 12:18 PM)
Edit Reason: clarification
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#3312 - 01/10/08 06:13 PM Re: life after death [Re: Octavius]
birdstrike Offline
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Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
I personally see belief as a counter productive entity. I am not saying do not explore. My stance is more to not limit oneself with belief. I find that belief is stagnation. For the average person it is all but impossible to change a belief. In this our ego's get in the way. I find it better to develop ideas than foster beliefs. The idea is less rigid in nature, and can be altered, or even proven false without the negative consequences that come with belief.

I started writing something else here, but as I was, your meaning became very crystal clear. You are absolutely correct. I am unable to comprehend death or afterlife. As a direct result I am apathetic regarding it. I see it in no way effecting my existence. I merely accept it as inevitable and incomprehensible. I just can't see it as consequential to my existence.
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#3313 - 01/10/08 06:38 PM Re: life after death [Re: Octavius]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
For once I agree very much with you Octavious. I have no trouble thinking that my molecules and energy are very likely to go on, but can't see how they could possibly retain all that is 'me' when they do.

I've actually willed my body to science (and since I have a terminal illness it's not a light thing) as I don't think that I'll be attached to it at all by the time I die. Let them chop it up and give it to med students or whatever. Burn the leftovers and keep them in a jar? Or scatter them on a garden, I don't really care. Actually the idea of being crushed and turned into a diamond for my daughters my favourite at this point.

Whilst I'm open to ideas, I have yet to hear one that includes an afterlife that I find ideologically sound.

Zeph
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#3332 - 01/11/08 10:43 AM Re: life after death [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TwistydMorticia Offline
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Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 5
Loc: England, United Kingdom
I believe that we have a soul and I strongly believe it lives on after death in some form or another.

I do not agree with the belief that preservation of the body after death is essential for the "afterlife" like the Egyptians (for example) did, unless someone fancies the idea of cryogenics then obviously you would need it ;\)

I have the same ideas as ZephyrGirl, I would like to sell mine to that German corpse artist, it would look pretty cool with my curvy spine and rib cage or let them experiment / research and find out what caused it.

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#3334 - 01/11/08 11:42 AM Re: life after death [Re: Octavius]
Bridgett Leavitt Offline
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Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 26
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yes, i agree with you here, And to make it clear, i'am NOT worried about the afterlife in any way shape or form. I'am not sure what to believe...really..cuz nobody in this plain of existence knows, and won't till we die. i'am merely just entertaining the ideas of what possibilities lay ahead. And no i have no desire to reliquish my "soul". Iam evil, iam human and i love it. if there is a christian god who frowns on me,.... well he can lick me where i shit!!!!
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#4571 - 02/27/08 06:04 AM Re: life after death [Re: birdstrike]
Rossums Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
Octavius i think i likes you,you big flirt!
What is all this talk of a life after death.Youre being silly,too silly,i wont have anything more to do woth you until youre properly serious!...i am sorry i have just had my third coffee of the morning \:\(

Right!Good ol'life.I dont think there is another one.The idea of there being an afterlife is exausting to me.If there is am afterlife i dbout it would be any different to this life.It would just be us,going about our afterlife,trying to have it off.If there was a paradise we went to it wouldnt stay like that for very long,human nature would see to that.Yes just like animal farm bye bye

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#4583 - 02/27/08 02:07 PM Re: life after death [Re: Rossums]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Y'know, I have the same point of view on the whole afterlife thing, Rossums. Well, what it'd be like, assuming there is one (And how are we to know there is one? Only time will tell....).

As for the whole paradise theory, I find that to be complete cods-wallop. It'd just be like harp-plucking land, and I DEFINITELY do not believe in that.
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#4584 - 02/27/08 02:11 PM Re: life after death [Re: DistroyA]
Rossums Offline
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Registered: 02/26/08
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Loc: Glasgow
you have a kind face,im gona smooch you right up ome of these days! yeha who wants to wear a white robe all day,not me! i would be tooo aware of my nipples,incase they were showing
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#4585 - 02/27/08 02:18 PM Re: life after death [Re: Rossums]
DistroyA Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
Yeah, but nipples are awesome.........*ahem* Moving on.....

Yeah, I'd prefer to lead an afterlife similar to what I do now. Creating art is just too good.

And thank you for the flattery (you minx you.....).
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#4604 - 02/28/08 02:02 AM Re: life after death [Re: birdstrike]
Engel08 Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40
Loc: California
I try in neurological theory to believe in a soul. But my faith' in such a thing fades in and out. I mean if one's brain controls almost everything including religious and euphoric feelings, memories, and goals, then it is the seat of the soul. And if all brain activity ends after death. Then the "soul" dies too.

And frankly I find beliefs in past lives nice and cool when it comes to conversational tools. But completely useless if you forget who you were. I don't believe it is a true transference of "Ego" Or soul. About as useful and comforting as a broken window in a space shuttle.
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#7135 - 04/03/08 02:58 PM Re: life after death [Re: Engel08]
truthseeker2000 Offline
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Registered: 02/12/08
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Loc: Upstate SC
I think that in order to determine if there is "life" after death it is necessary to define what exactly "you" are. That is to say, what is it that makes up or defines you? IMHO, that would be the consciousness, your memories and emotions, all of which are biological processes in the human brain. I recommend Consciousness Explained by Daniel Dennett for a little "light reading" on the subject. In other words, I believe that if we exist after death it is not in a way or form that would be recognizable to us now.
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#7150 - 04/03/08 09:59 PM Re: life after death [Re: Octavius]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: Octavius
I believe a large degree of agnosticism is needed when dealing with this issue. However, an apathetic stance limits your understanding and knowledge of the world you live in. Answers like "Why bother? Who cares? What difference does it make?" only prove that you're not mentally able to entertain theories beyond your current level of education. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but as soon as you become stagnant in those beliefs, you cheating yourself out of knowledge, power, success, health and more. One need not "worry" about the alleged afterlife in order to entertain the notion.


Or perhaps I can entertain the notion of an afterlife and have done, then realised the argument is moot on the ground that it's fundamentally unanswerable so decided to stop exploring it. The afterlife can only be known after we die, it cannot be explored before death unless we can return to tell people about it and as no-one yet has ever managed that in any conclusive manner, (and if people could it would be extremely commonplace surely), I can assume that isn't possible. If we cannot answer any questions on the afterlife until we die and then once we die the questions are all answered rather effortlessly why waste time and effort of them now, on Earth, here in this life. Why don't we use our time more productively and learn of what we have here in life rather that what we hypothetically may or may not have in a place and time that may or may not exist after a point by which we can't return to this life to appreciate what we're ignoring now in order to make these very postulations.
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