Page 1 of 2 12>
Topic Options
#32437 - 12/01/09 07:36 AM Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
It was the last place I would have expected to see this. I was in Geneva and things are pretty tense. The dominant political party is conservative and staunchly anti-immigration. They sponsored a poster that is up all over the country:


They got over 100,000 signatures on a petition and forced the government into a referendum to ban the building of minarets. They voted last weekend and the measure passed at 57%. It's now illegal to build mosques with minarets anywhere in Switzerland. The country is 5% Muslim.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8385069.stm

Top
#32439 - 12/01/09 09:09 AM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: coelentrate]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
A knee-jerk reaction, to be sure, but not unexpected. I'd be pissed off too if the minority population in my small country was growing at such an exponential rate. Not to mention immigrants from such a vastly different and alien culture as the Middle East. While banning minarets isn't the most logical decision to combat the growing Muslim population, at least the Swiss are willing to get some balls and risk a "terrorist attack". Unlike the rest of the countries in the EU, who are slowly being strangled by their own overly tolerant foreign policies.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#32440 - 12/01/09 09:26 AM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: Nemesis]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I think this is vile, racist bigotry. I am sick of people using immigrants as scapegoats and I'm speaking from the UK where this is quite prevalent at the moment. Focusing on minarets (??!!) as if a feature of architecture could threaten Switzerland's identity is certainly stirring it, in my opinion. There may be some aspects of Islam that are unpalatable to Western European palettes but the Five Pillars are hardly radical and barely differ from the Judaeo-Christian traditions. Are the Swiss to have a referendum on the building of more Christian churches that display crosses? I doubt it.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#32442 - 12/01/09 10:29 AM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: felixgarnet]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
After reading this story I wondered what the deal with the minarets are so I looked it up and here is a little of what I have found:

 Quote:
The Egerkinger committee is made up of members of the Swiss People's Party and the Federal Democratic Union. The committee opines that the interests of residents, who are disturbed by specific kinds of religious land uses, are to be taken seriously. Moreover, it argues that Swiss residents should be able to block unwanted and unusual projects such as the erection of Islamic minarets. The committee alleges, inter alia, that "the construction of a minaret has no religious meaning. Neither in the Qur'an, nor in any other holy scripture of Islam is the minaret expressly mentioned at any rate. The minaret is far more a symbol of religious-political power claim [...]." The initiators justify their point of view by stating parts of later Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's 1997 speech, which holds: "Mosques are our barracks, domes our helmets, minarets our bayonets, believers our soldiers. This holy army guards my religion." Ulrich Schluer, who is one of the Egerkinger committee’s most prominent exponents, states in this respect: "A minaret has nothing to do with religion: It just symbolises a place where Islamic law is established."


Since the minarets really have nothing to do with the religious beliefs, people can't really call it religious discrimination. I also see nothing racist about this. What I do see is a country tryng to keep a vile and foreign religion from getting it in a strangle hold. With Islam's current track record I can't say I blame them (the Swiss) for instituting this ban. I wouldn't want any symbols of Islamic law where I live either.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#32443 - 12/01/09 02:29 PM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
What a lot of people in support of the ban have said is that a lot of muslims are immigrating in, and when a lot of them arrive, they want Sharia law, and that is contrary to long established Swiss values.

The Muslim leaders in Switzerland have stated that a minaret ban would make them feel unwelcome, and I think that's exactly what the Peoples' party wanted.

Nemesis is right, it pretty much is an immigration issue.

I can understand the sentiment too. My ancestors came to America from Britain in the 1600's and resented every wave of immigration since.

Top
#32445 - 12/01/09 03:39 PM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: felixgarnet]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Doubtless it's the fact that the Swiss want to send a message to current and future Muslim immigrants, "Don't think you can come here and turn Geneva into Tehran or Baghdad." They should just be grateful that they can pray to Allah without fear of retribution.

Each country will have to deal with the flood of Muslim immigrants in their own way. When do you think a country should send a clear message about what will and will not be tolerated? When the Call to Prayer is blaring out from speakers throughout downtown London 5 times a day, starting at 5 am? Or when Muslim ghettos start enforcing Sharia Law upon each other, most of which is in direct conflict with local laws? Why let it get that far in the first place? Where do YOU draw the line? Being all-inclusive is well and good, until one day the sale of pork products is banned and alcohol is on a Prohibition list.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Fuck Islam.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#32452 - 12/01/09 04:59 PM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: Nemesis]
CJB Offline
member


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 125
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
Immigration is fine when the immigrants adopt the local law and custom, or at the very least the majority of it. The whole reason to move to another country is because it's better than the one you left...why would you want to institute a culture that made your home country a shithole in the first place?
Unless, of course, your plan is to move into the other country and turn it into a shithole from the get-go.

And this isn't a racist remark against muslims. Moderate muslims are just as fine in my book as moderate christians or moderate what-have-you. It's only when they get radical and try to change things to fit their own fucked up worldview that they become a nuisance and/or threat.

I think banning minnarets is kind of silly, but the other ways in which to guarantee your country doesn't turn into a shithole would probably require way too much work for the average person to consider.

As a disclaimer: as someone who has been to several middle eastern muslim-ruled shitholes, I fully reserve the right to call these places shitholes. Because they are. And these weren't even the really bad shitholes.
_________________________
~~CJ
"To say 'I love you' one must know first how to say the 'I.'"
-Ayn Rand

Top
#32457 - 12/01/09 09:11 PM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: CJB]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Fuck them all.

You move to another country, adapt to the current laws or don't move there.

The same with the language. You move to a foreign country learn the language or don't go.

What is so hard to understand.
It's not racist, it fucking common sense.
As Nem pointed out, you have to draw a line.

The radicals are the ones that have issues with everyone else.
The other people are just willing to live and let live.
The radicals of any group, gays, muslims, christians, or jews all think their individual rights and point of view is better than everyone elses.
When the fact is, like the south park episode pointed out, they aren't attracting good attention, they are just thought about as a bunch of douches, who refuse to respect others peoples rights to live as they want.

I am waiting to see what France does next, I read that the biggest Mosque in all of Europe is being built there.
Hmm, maybe a replay of Nazi Germany except with different clothes/uniforms.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#32459 - 12/01/09 09:37 PM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: CJB]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
The middle east is indeed packed with shit-holes.
But so is the rest of the "civilized" world.
Buttfuck, Indiana comes to mind...
As do Surnadal in my own country.

I would no more fuck Islam, than work my way up the tight-arsed cavities of Xianity.
Much prefer to wallow in the inner workings of voluptuous redheads, but that's me.

The Swiss? I do not like them much.
Sanctimonious leeches of the worst kind.
An example of earlier political battles in Switzerland might be sensible to peek at.

As to religious architecture; bring it on, says I.
Best things to ever emerge out of the Monotheistic religions.
I see no problem with it as long as local building regulations are followed.

An important argument against Minarets are the irritating (for Xian and Closet-Xian ears) calls for prayer.
Give me a fucking break...
I would like to see the western city authorities who would allow amplified noise pollution at sunrise, noon, day, sundown, and evening.
I for one would welcome regulations on church-bells as well.
I do not like LOUD religions, nor their (unholy) practices to be forced upon me.

Freedom of religion anyone?
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

Top
#32480 - 12/02/09 10:02 PM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: Woland]
Samuel Hain Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 62
Loc: arkansas
Seriously, who really gives a fuck if a bunch of psychotic desert dwellers are offended. The West needs to show a little courage! What is it about living in a desert environment that makes people want to blow up other people, or go live in the wilderness eating nothing but wild locusts and honey?
Top
#32495 - 12/03/09 06:57 AM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: Samuel Hain]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Samuel Hain
Seriously, who really gives a fuck if a bunch of psychotic desert dwellers are offended. The West needs to show a little courage! What is it about living in a desert environment that makes people want to blow up other people, or go live in the wilderness eating nothing but wild locusts and honey?


So utter biblical of you Samuel...
Evangelical schooling?
Never miss mass?

As usual; I cant help but noticing gaps in your somewhat simple reasoning.
Blowing up other people is a craft perfected by the "Western World".
The desert dwellers are merely providing a bleak and imperfect imitation.
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

Top
#32497 - 12/03/09 08:42 AM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: Woland]
GillesdeRais Offline
member


Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 141
 Quote:
Blowing up other people is a craft perfected by the "Western World"


I agree completely. The following link illustrates your point. This is one of the only detonations of a 50 megaton thermonuclear warhead ever filmed. For scale, the Hiroshima and Nagasaki detonations were equal to about 13.4 thousand tons of TNT. This weapon, the "Czar Bomb", was on the order of 50 million tons of TNT.
On a historical side-note, the Soviet Union at that time (early 1960's) experimented with yields of 100+ megatons, but determined the weapons would create too much fallout to be tested above ground. Soviet ICBM's of that era were also regarded as being somewhat inaccurate, so that led to the development of weapons of a far greater magnitude of destructive capability: You might be off the target by a little, but that doesn't matter with an explosion like this.



Edited by GillesdeRais (12/03/09 09:03 AM)
Edit Reason: cat exploded
_________________________
Philosophy, n. A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.

Top
#34404 - 01/22/10 09:27 PM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: GillesdeRais]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 860
Loc: Nashville
I agree that with immigration must come a degree of assimilation. One cannot reasonably move to another country without having a basic knowledge/respect for that country’s laws and culture. However, in a country considered developed, such as the US or UK, individual liberties must be taken into account.

The line to be drawn, in my view, is, “Does someone’s individual liberties impinge on the liberties of society?” Basically, it’s the idea that one shouldn’t yell “fire!” (or a call to prayer) in a crowded theater.

It gets complicated when free speech gets entangled with calls to arms. Charles Manson, for instance, never killed anyone (as far as we know), and yet he is in prison (rightfully so, I think) for persuading others to kill for him. Certainly, governments should be vigilant when it comes to security. However, I think it is a mistake to enact laws punishing the many for the unlawful actions of a few.

It’s messy living in a free (or freer than most) society. We cannot give everyone 50 lashes and be done with it. We have to actually think. What a concept.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

Top
#34407 - 01/22/10 10:03 PM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: coelentrate]
Baron dHolbach Offline
member


Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
 Originally Posted By: coelentrate
They sponsored a poster that is up all over the country:


The artist did an excellent job of getting me to see missiles when I was looking at minarets. This in turn is a clever way to play on people's fear of radical muslim power run amok. I very much enjoy propaganda posters as examples of art and science in coitus, LBM mass produced and persistently impactful until taken down. I have no doubt that these posters were a major factor in the way the vote played out.
_________________________
The baboon is the soul of man.



Top
#34414 - 01/22/10 11:10 PM Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack [Re: William Wright]
liebowitz Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/17/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Victorville, California, USA
There are plenty of examples as to why a country should not let outsiders decide what language and culture is practiced.

One of the best known is the fall of the Western Roman Impire, and we are allowing the same thing here. Besides I would rather be under NAZI rule than under the islamic laws, at least I could have the things that are indulgences that are enjoyable, such as music, women, porn, non political books, and liquor.

Anaheim California and other close by cities have mosques, and the number is alarming. Also I can't see how a person can be considered peaceful when they kill others because of a cartoon picture.

Top
Page 1 of 2 12>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.027 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.