#32437 - 12/01/09 07:36 AM
Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack
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coelentrate
member
Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
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It was the last place I would have expected to see this. I was in Geneva and things are pretty tense. The dominant political party is conservative and staunchly anti-immigration. They sponsored a poster that is up all over the country:
They got over 100,000 signatures on a petition and forced the government into a referendum to ban the building of minarets. They voted last weekend and the measure passed at 57%. It's now illegal to build mosques with minarets anywhere in Switzerland. The country is 5% Muslim.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8385069.stm
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#32442 - 12/01/09 10:29 AM
Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack
[Re: felixgarnet]
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6Satan6Archist6
stalker
Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2511
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After reading this story I wondered what the deal with the minarets are so I looked it up and here is a little of what I have found:
The Egerkinger committee is made up of members of the Swiss People's Party and the Federal Democratic Union. The committee opines that the interests of residents, who are disturbed by specific kinds of religious land uses, are to be taken seriously. Moreover, it argues that Swiss residents should be able to block unwanted and unusual projects such as the erection of Islamic minarets. The committee alleges, inter alia, that "the construction of a minaret has no religious meaning. Neither in the Qur'an, nor in any other holy scripture of Islam is the minaret expressly mentioned at any rate. The minaret is far more a symbol of religious-political power claim [...]." The initiators justify their point of view by stating parts of later Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan's 1997 speech, which holds: "Mosques are our barracks, domes our helmets, minarets our bayonets, believers our soldiers. This holy army guards my religion." Ulrich Schluer, who is one of the Egerkinger committee’s most prominent exponents, states in this respect: "A minaret has nothing to do with religion: It just symbolises a place where Islamic law is established."
Since the minarets really have nothing to do with the religious beliefs, people can't really call it religious discrimination. I also see nothing racist about this. What I do see is a country tryng to keep a vile and foreign religion from getting it in a strangle hold. With Islam's current track record I can't say I blame them (the Swiss) for instituting this ban. I wouldn't want any symbols of Islamic law where I live either.
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No gods. No masters.
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#32457 - 12/01/09 09:11 PM
Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack
[Re: CJB]
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Morgan
stalker
Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
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Fuck them all.
You move to another country, adapt to the current laws or don't move there.
The same with the language. You move to a foreign country learn the language or don't go.
What is so hard to understand. It's not racist, it fucking common sense. As Nem pointed out, you have to draw a line.
The radicals are the ones that have issues with everyone else. The other people are just willing to live and let live. The radicals of any group, gays, muslims, christians, or jews all think their individual rights and point of view is better than everyone elses. When the fact is, like the south park episode pointed out, they aren't attracting good attention, they are just thought about as a bunch of douches, who refuse to respect others peoples rights to live as they want.
I am waiting to see what France does next, I read that the biggest Mosque in all of Europe is being built there. Hmm, maybe a replay of Nazi Germany except with different clothes/uniforms.
Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear Fuck em if they can't take a joke Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass
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#32459 - 12/01/09 09:37 PM
Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack
[Re: CJB]
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Woland
Seasoned
active member
Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 766
Loc: Oslo, Norway
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The middle east is indeed packed with shit-holes. But so is the rest of the "civilized" world. Buttfuck, Indiana comes to mind... As do Surnadal in my own country.
I would no more fuck Islam, than work my way up the tight-arsed cavities of Xianity. Much prefer to wallow in the inner workings of voluptuous redheads, but that's me.
The Swiss? I do not like them much. Sanctimonious leeches of the worst kind. An example of earlier political battles in Switzerland might be sensible to peek at.
As to religious architecture; bring it on, says I. Best things to ever emerge out of the Monotheistic religions. I see no problem with it as long as local building regulations are followed.
An important argument against Minarets are the irritating (for Xian and Closet-Xian ears) calls for prayer. Give me a fucking break... I would like to see the western city authorities who would allow amplified noise pollution at sunrise, noon, day, sundown, and evening. I for one would welcome regulations on church-bells as well. I do not like LOUD religions, nor their (unholy) practices to be forced upon me.
Freedom of religion anyone?
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Woland
Contra Mundum!
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#32495 - 12/03/09 06:57 AM
Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack
[Re: Samuel Hain]
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Woland
Seasoned
active member
Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 766
Loc: Oslo, Norway
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Seriously, who really gives a fuck if a bunch of psychotic desert dwellers are offended. The West needs to show a little courage! What is it about living in a desert environment that makes people want to blow up other people, or go live in the wilderness eating nothing but wild locusts and honey?
So utter biblical of you Samuel... Evangelical schooling? Never miss mass?
As usual; I cant help but noticing gaps in your somewhat simple reasoning. Blowing up other people is a craft perfected by the "Western World". The desert dwellers are merely providing a bleak and imperfect imitation.
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Woland
Contra Mundum!
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#34404 - 01/22/10 09:27 PM
Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack
[Re: GillesdeRais]
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William Wright
active member
Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 921
Loc: Nashville
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I agree that with immigration must come a degree of assimilation. One cannot reasonably move to another country without having a basic knowledge/respect for that country’s laws and culture. However, in a country considered developed, such as the US or UK, individual liberties must be taken into account.
The line to be drawn, in my view, is, “Does someone’s individual liberties impinge on the liberties of society?” Basically, it’s the idea that one shouldn’t yell “fire!” (or a call to prayer) in a crowded theater.
It gets complicated when free speech gets entangled with calls to arms. Charles Manson, for instance, never killed anyone (as far as we know), and yet he is in prison (rightfully so, I think) for persuading others to kill for him. Certainly, governments should be vigilant when it comes to security. However, I think it is a mistake to enact laws punishing the many for the unlawful actions of a few.
It’s messy living in a free (or freer than most) society. We cannot give everyone 50 lashes and be done with it. We have to actually think. What a concept.
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#34407 - 01/22/10 10:03 PM
Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack
[Re: coelentrate]
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Baron dHolbach
member
Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
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They sponsored a poster that is up all over the country:
The artist did an excellent job of getting me to see missiles when I was looking at minarets. This in turn is a clever way to play on people's fear of radical muslim power run amok. I very much enjoy propaganda posters as examples of art and science in coitus, LBM mass produced and persistently impactful until taken down. I have no doubt that these posters were a major factor in the way the vote played out.
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The baboon is the soul of man.
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#34414 - 01/22/10 11:10 PM
Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack
[Re: William Wright]
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liebowitz
stranger
Registered: 12/17/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Victorville, California, USA
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There are plenty of examples as to why a country should not let outsiders decide what language and culture is practiced.
One of the best known is the fall of the Western Roman Impire, and we are allowing the same thing here. Besides I would rather be under NAZI rule than under the islamic laws, at least I could have the things that are indulgences that are enjoyable, such as music, women, porn, non political books, and liquor.
Anaheim California and other close by cities have mosques, and the number is alarming. Also I can't see how a person can be considered peaceful when they kill others because of a cartoon picture.
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#34417 - 01/23/10 05:17 AM
Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack
[Re: liebowitz]
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Baron dHolbach
member
Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
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There are plenty of examples as to why a country should not let outsiders decide what language and culture is practiced.
One of the best known is the fall of the Western Roman Impire
First, I enjoyed your accidental typo, "Impire," which put me in mind immediately of a great title for what could well be a great fantasy novel about imps taking over the world! 
But where Rome was concerned, one secret of their early success was precisely their willingness to let conquered peoples retain their original cultures, so long as tribute was paid and military assistance provided. As to why Rome eventually fell, hypotheses abound, but the one I favor is that they over-extended themselves in trying to administer a domain too large for existing communication and transportation technologies to cope with.
Besides I would rather be under NAZI rule than under the islamic laws, at least I could have the things that are indulgences that are enjoyable, such as music, women, porn, non political books, and liquor.
While I have no desire to live under Nazi rule, I too would prefer that to Islamic rule, or any theocratic rule, Christian or otherwise. Nazi rule would provide a jungle I could survive and prosper in, I think, albeit in some ways an unpleasant one. The worst part would be the Fuhrer worship, which I would loathe, but would probably be able to grin and bear, since I would be pretty sure that any Fuhrer who proved a liability to the nation would eventually die at the hands of one of his lieutenants. Still, I am happiest right where I am, here in the United States as it currently stands.
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The baboon is the soul of man.
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#34751 - 01/28/10 06:36 PM
Re: Switzerland is cruising for a terrorist attack
[Re: Baron dHolbach]
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The Zebu
senior member
Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
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I understand their concern over Islam and radicalism spreading in their country, but banning minarets isn't going to do shit. Floods of Muslims will still pour into their country, and all their efforts will do is piss them off an alienate them from the western world even more.
But where Rome was concerned, one secret of their early success was precisely their willingness to let conquered peoples retain their original cultures, so long as tribute was paid and military assistance provided.
I thoroughly agree. The minaret band is a step in the completely opposite direction- trying to stamp out culture while making them resent the ruling government and society at the same time. No good can come of it.
Although it should be noted that the idea of "National Identity" is tossed around too much, as if the culture that has been prevalent in a geographic area for the past century or so constitutes some kind of "sacred cow" that should be preserved at all costs. It's moronic.
If the spread of Islam does turn out to become a "genuine threat" to Western Civilization as people make it out to be, no amount of half-baked legal persecution can stop it. If the west is truly "at war with Islam", I would expect them to start building tanks and preparing concentration camps.
Otherwise they should just stop bitching.
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