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#3266 - 01/09/08 06:46 PM Satanism and Sexuality?
Evil Lucy Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 9
Loc: La Mesa, California, USA
As a bi-sexual Satanist, I have often wondered if all Satanists regardless of their sexual orientation have used nude female altars as a focal point?- There is nothing on this Earth that arouses me like a beautiful woman, lying naked, symbolizing carnal desire, and the machinations of the flesh- But what if for example the attending group were gay men, would they use a female to focus their lust upon?, I highly doubt it, I think if I should conduct any rite, ritual whatever you should call it, that I would have to take into consideration the mass sexuality of the attendants. What allures a straight woman/gay man, studies have shown that phermones are what attracts us to people. Would a Homosexual Man use a male as his altar, and if so, would this be wrong? I don't think it would be wrong, seeing as this *homosexual male* is attracted to men, therefore his bio-electrical energies will be focused on his male altar insighting lust- And in some cases, Altars are just altars and not people at all- Any thoughts?

Edited by Evil Lucy (01/09/08 06:47 PM)
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To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heaven
-Evil Lucy



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#3267 - 01/09/08 06:52 PM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: Evil Lucy]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 561
Loc: just visiting
I have never felt the need to use an altar as a focal point. Actually,
I use complete sensory deprivation a my focal point. The more distractions I can eliminate from my magick, the better. This includes sexual magick.
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So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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#3276 - 01/09/08 08:16 PM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: Octavius]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I actually have a rather strange way of performing rituals. My rituals are all in song, I feel my emotions are best expressed in song so rather than use someone elses rituals written for them I created my own, after all, this is supposed to be self worship after all.

I sing along, quite loadly and passionately, with whatever song captivates my feelings. The song changes frequently and I use different songs for different rituals.

The most recent I've used.

Pulp - Do You Remember The First Time?

This was for a destruction ritual against my ex. It was more a destruction of the feelings I had for her, and I feel it's works honestly. I can pinpoint the minute, I was sitting playing Xbox at 11:26pm and I said to myself "Holy Shit! I don't love Hannah anymore. For the first time since I met her I don't love her, I feel nothing for her."... strange moment of realisation.

Avril Lavigne - Hot

Lust Ritual to get rid of but also spike my sexual tensions, give me some control. I find this one quite calming... despite it being a girls voice, oddly I find I sing along to female vocals more often than male vocals.

I could mention more but I won't bother.... It's strange though. I don't choose the songs, they just tend to happen. It'll be something I hear randomly on TV or the Radio and then 'bam' I'm using that song for the next 2-3 weeks.

But no, I've never used naked woman as a focus for any ritual beyond the primary passtime of all single guys in there early 20's with unlimited internet access.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#3298 - 01/10/08 12:06 PM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: TornadoCreator]
birdstrike Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
I'm going to have to agree with Octavius (as I usually do). I've never found group ritual to be anything but a distraction. How do you focus on anything but nailing the naked chick? The last thing on my mind when there is a naked woman in front of me is magic ritual.

LaVey I feel was like most charismatic cult leaders. Starting a cult was a great way to get laid. Even a better way if the cult revolved its "magic" around sexual practices. LaVey was about power, sex, and money, and really could care less about his followers. He as much as said so! He was an excellent magician in that he made his desires come true, aside from that however he really was merely a charlatan after the same thing we all are. One of the first and foremost things being sex! That was the reasoning behind his satanic "altar". It had nothing whatsoever to do with magic focus! It had to do with him getting laid after the "ceremony"!
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Isn't being a Satanist against the ideas of Satanism?

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#3302 - 01/10/08 01:59 PM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: birdstrike]
x.emo.danny.x Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 40
Does that mean LaVey Satanism is bullshit because some guy created it just to get laid? Correct me if I am wrong but isnt Satanism about more than just filling desires and doing what you want? I understand what I believe is called credo but Im pretty sure your wrong about LaVey.
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#3306 - 01/10/08 03:14 PM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: birdstrike]
Soluna666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Canada
Satanism IS about power, sex, money, and all the good things that make life worth living. It celebrates the carnal. Lust is a valuable energy in magickal ritual, if it is harnessed and directed at the proper moment. So LaVey was able to manifest his desires. How do you figure he was a charlatan? Manifestation of desire is the whole point of Satanic magick...or any magick, for that matter. If one is honest about it, and doesn't hide behind some psuedo-christian "white magic" bullshit, magick is about the acquisition of power...period.
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#3310 - 01/10/08 05:48 PM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: Soluna666]
birdstrike Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
LaVey formed a cult in San Fransisco in the 60's. Though maybe some good came out of it for the odd person, the man spent a life as a confidence artist. It really doesn't take much research into the man to see that. The funniest part to myself is the way he openly proclaimed it.

The Satanic Bible talks openly about using lesser magic to dupe those around you into doing what you will. It scorns the "weak minded" yet promotes a "for profit church". Why would a strong minded person need to pay to have someone spell the answers out to them? That sounds frighteningly like any other religion doesn't it? That sort of goes against his own preaching doesn't it? His own priests thought so. Thats why the church fragmented in the mid 70's. Don't just read his books people, research the man as well.

Hey Soluna666 I agree with you and stated in my original post that he did in fact use lesser magic to attain his goals. Thank you for the dissertation on the meaning of Satanism and Satanic magic though. I am no longer a Satanist. It sure was a nice memory though!
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Isn't being a Satanist against the ideas of Satanism?

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#3316 - 01/10/08 08:19 PM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: x.emo.danny.x]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
Does that mean LaVey satanism is bullshit because some guy created it just to get laid?


No.

But any hierarchical organization is going to have followers, brown nosers, boot lickers, apple polishers and other assorted people who are trying to suck up to the powers that be.

Some people get off on this sort of thing. I have know any number of women who just want to be 'used' by a group of men. Come on, this cannot be news to anyone!
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#3324 - 01/11/08 01:43 AM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: Fist]
hellbent666
Unregistered



More slanderers of LaVey. LaVey founded an awesome religion if you can call it that and also gave a lot of people a starting point or a base philosophy to build on. LaVey never duped anyone that wasn't a willing participant, people have this little thing called the ability to make up their own minds. And if he did it wasn't out of malicious intent to like harm the person in any way, maybe superficial duping... His organization is still alive and flourishing. The reason people think his organization is stagnant is because the Church really hasn't done much but the members themselves are always doing stuff for the betterment of their lives. Satanism is a highly individualistic religion/philosophy.

Satanism was not used as strictly just a means to get laid and have orgies, it is a belief structure with real merit. Our second main instinct is to procreate and procreation involves sex so do it to it! If sex is all you're after then by all means indulge just be responsible about it. Who cares if LaVey or his lackeys wanted to fuck all the time. We are only human after all.

Oh, and LaVey formed a documented, federally recognized RELIGION. It is not a cult. Cults usually involve men claiming to be Jesus the second coming or they think that UFO's are attached to comets and that sex is dirty (purple shrouds and Nike's people). Those are cults.

I'm sticking up for LaVey because he's not able to do it himself, bad mouthing the dead....Tis a shame. Would you want someone to bad mouth you when you were dead and weren't able to defend yourself?

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#3325 - 01/11/08 04:41 AM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: ]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 561
Loc: just visiting
If you think LaVey was the first person to recognize and promote the ability to manifest his own desires in the name of self-empowerment and self-aggrandizement, you are sorely mistaken, Hellbent666. Giving Uncle Anton the credit for creating the Satanic mindset and philosophies is just plain incorrect. He was merely the first to label them "Satanic."

Dead or not, I'm sure Anton doesn't need the likes of you to defend him.
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So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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#3328 - 01/11/08 08:22 AM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: Octavius]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
LaVey duped plenty of people.... and by doing so proved his point. Self worship. The whole point of Satanism is YOU come first, so why should LaVey give a flying fuck about anyone but himself. Only reason I can see is because it benefits him and I respect him for being blatent about this.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#3386 - 01/12/08 03:59 AM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: TornadoCreator]
hellbent666
Unregistered



Good point Octavius, and well taken. He used Lesser Magic to get what he wanted from other people and I realize that but it was not screwing other people over in any way. I thought it was rational self interest? I'm reading The Satanic Bible again for like the 15th time and I know he says something about rational self interest. I maybe misinterpreted what bird strike was trying to convey. He/she (I don't know your gender, please forgive me) made it sound like the people around LaVey were being mislead in some kind of way. This is furthest from the truth because LaVey only associated with intelligent adults that were capable of thinking for themselves. It is true that us Satanists are first and foremost concerened with ourselves, but Satanism (LaVeyan) does not give you the license to screw people over because you are wanting to gain something for yourself. Nor does it give you a license to be an ass to people unless they are deserving. It is a selfish religion but we do have family and firends that sometimes require our assistance before our own self interest. We must not forget these things lest we lose track of what it is to be a respectable person in this society that we live in.
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#3389 - 01/12/08 12:17 PM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: ]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
People assume selfishness is a bad thing. I selfishly help people because I want to, I get happiness from seeing them happy, form doing them some good and on top of that they tend to help me when I need it too. This is why Satanism works for me. It's about putting oneself first but often for me that means helping others as well.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#4455 - 02/22/08 10:31 AM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: TornadoCreator]
Oboids Offline
lurker


Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Manila, Philippines
I'm new here but I feel that hellbent666's opinion on familial interests/relationships contradicts LaVey's stand on the value of selfishness. There shouldn't be anything higher than oneself and one's interest, and the need of family/friends (or anyone) should never be above one's needs. As a selfish religion, no one should "require our assistance before our own self interest"

I think that the people who see selfishness as something bad are all liars who will never admit to themselves that their selfless acts are nothing but selfish needs - the selfish need stemming out from "need for recognition", and they take pleasure in it. It is a pity that these people doesn't see it.

ON TOPIC: I think it all boils down to preference. :-)

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#4464 - 02/22/08 04:28 PM Re: Satanism and Sexuality? [Re: Oboids]
PansGirl_v2.3 Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/18/08
Posts: 30
Loc: TX U.S.
 Quote:
There shouldn't be anything higher than oneself and one's interest, and the need of family/friends (or anyone) should never be above one's needs


Does that still apply if one's main interest IS the family and friends? I do not agree that there NEVER should be anyone higher than oneself. If one loves, but loves selfishly is it not fulfilling one's needs and putting someone else higher at the same time. It is a paradox, surely, to never have anything higher than one's self. Satanism is a selfish philosophy, but in being selfish, sometimes we are also being selfless in contradictory to being selfless to be selfish.

Do I make myself clear? If not, I apologize, I someimes find myself going off on a tangent and I admit, I might have gotten the wrong idea from your post.
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The love of many is the envy of all.

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