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#34384 - 01/22/10 07:36 AM Re: What's Obama's Economic Policy [Re: Fnord]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I'm not entirely blaming it on Bush. Just like Obama has become the shooting target taking the brunt of criticism about the Health Reform Bill (which may be scrapped!), Bush was just the figurehead. The so-called "lawmakers" were indeed the ones who were also pushing for a target to unleash our anger upon.

What I find interesting is that, after 9/11, Americans were justifiably outraged and going to war in Afghanistan was a logical step. But when Bush turned his eye towards Iraq and moved the bulk of operations to that country, everyone was in an uproar.

Now that Obama is finally down scaling the troops in Iraq and shifting them over to our original target, the American public cries, "No!".

The mob is a fickle beast.
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#34392 - 01/22/10 09:44 AM Re: What's Obama's Economic Policy [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
Yeah, I hear that! There is a ton of vital intelligence to be evaluated by the CiC and his advisors in connection to the war on terror. We don't hear a tenth of it, or even a hundredth. It would mean releasing highly classified information to the public, which would sort of defeat the purpose.


Most people take a hard position on this sort of thing without taking exactly that into consideration. I'm always wary of people who are so certain of things while lacking large pieces of information. For one thing it shows that they've bought into the false dichotomy of the opposing political parties in the US. It's wise to be skeptical, as you've shown.


 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
Since there is oil in Iraq, the US must be after oil, right? All the circumstantial evidence is there, and even a few bits and pieces that are downright damning.
Those operations would most likely still have been taking place no matter the name tag on the President's chair.

That certainly could have been an original intent. However with so much focus on that potential motive there was no way to realize it without alienating most of the world. It's no secret that when a US president says something about protecting US interests what they mean to say is that they wish to do all in their power to ensure that the US maintains cheap and replenishable fuel. Without that the US economy would fail. Back in the 80's the Russians and the Afghans were at war for reasons deemed 'indeterminable'. Of course there's the usual religious conflict that seems to underlie most of the trouble but why two superpowers got involved isn't something that's entirely clear. *I* suspect that Russia was going to try to emulate the US's cheap fuel model by dropping a pipeline across Afghanistan and tapping into the abundance of oil to the south. Russia + cheap fuel would not have boded well for US interests at the time.

 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
.... they needed to be concluded unambiguously. This is proving to be more tricky than anticipated.

Always assuming the intents/motives behind them would withstand the light of day. They certainly had an ambiguous beginning to those who don't just believe what the media says (Us). Tricky, indeed! Oh what tangled webs we weave!
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#35590 - 02/13/10 12:33 AM Re: What's Obama's Economic Policy [Re: ]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Give this a listen if you have an hour to spare; I think it will be available as an archive for at least another few days.

KPFA is our local Pacifica station, which means slightly to the left of Karl Marx, and "Guns & Butter" is one of its conspiracy-theory shows. Nevertheless I'm impressed by Hudson's piecing together of the macropuzzle, and I'll be interested to hear what people here think.
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#35662 - 02/14/10 11:00 PM Re: What's Obama's Economic Policy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Thanks for this link Dr. Aquino.

Unfortunately my computer is playing silly buggers at the moment and I can't listen to it.

Sorry could you give a quick re - cap of it?

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#35813 - 02/19/10 11:03 AM Re: What's Obama's Economic Policy [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
Thanks for posting this link Dr. Aquino.

I'd started educating myself on how the Federal Reserve works by reading Ron Paul's book End the Fed which came to me by way of watching the Zeitgeist film on the federal reserve (available on youtube starting HERE).

I'd started becoming interested in the workings of the Federal Reserve when I started becoming suspicious that the US is not a Democracy, but rather an Oligarchy.

This interview really ties up the loose ends for me. In practice, I had noticed that the 'housing bust' was representative of less than 1 billion dollars in the economy. It made no sense to me that it took nearly 300 billion to fix a 1 billion dollar problem until I heard this interview. NOW I finally get it. I'm sure the info is available elsewhere, or probably it had been right in front of my face all along, but the way Dr. Hudson explained it all made it finally click into place.

The interview proved to me that I had been on the right track. I think the elections that we have in this country (the ones that matter) are largely fanfare and are false at the core. I think any "choice" presented to the voters are pre-screened and pre-approved by this shadowy Oligarchy to maintain the status quo. This means, of course, that the richest will stay that way, the poorest will largely stay that way and the middle class will foot the bill no matter what party the suit in office claims to belong to. The party system is straight out of Sun Tzu's Art of War and the ever clarifying sides in this war are us (We the People) against them (the controlling standard, whomever they may be). One public face of the "Them" side is clearly the Federal Reserve and another public face is Wall Street.

I think the only way out of all of this for the normal person is to become as autonomous as possible. Stockpile cash, learn to garden, buy land and don't depend on banks or government for anything.




Diabolical(humorous)Aside:
We could start revolting in Legion. Ta2zz could hook us all up with the mark of the beast and we could start making Revelation 13 a reality ;D
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Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#35816 - 02/19/10 12:01 PM Re: What's Obama's Economic Policy [Re: Fnord]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
I'd started becoming interested in the workings of the Federal Reserve when I started becoming suspicious that the US is not a Democracy, but rather an Oligarchy.


Right. So, given that reality, the real question then becomes "Now what?".

To which, I would respond read this book. Your next course of action should then be somewhat obvious.
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#35817 - 02/19/10 12:06 PM Re: What's Obama's Economic Policy [Re: Fist]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
Yessir, have that one under my belt already (with a few re-reads).

I do admit to doubting its applicability, in part, in modern society. I'm coming to realize that it was my own coloring of reality that was slightly off kilter in the equation. I'd taken to giving people the benefit of the doubt more often than not... much to my own peril.

Sound advice, thank you sir.
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Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#35818 - 02/19/10 12:25 PM Re: What's Obama's Economic Policy [Re: Fnord]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:

I do admit to doubting its applicability, in part, in modern society.


?

Only if you lack imagination. What do you think taxes are? What about the bank bailouts, TARP, and 'The Stimulus.' Quite simply, this was all an act of theft.

Our rulers know the game is up. At this point they are simply trying to horde as much loot as they can before total collapse.

Again, the only real question is when do you get yours?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#35819 - 02/19/10 12:40 PM Re: What's Obama's Economic Policy [Re: Fist]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Fist

?

Only if you lack imagination.


Nope, just wired into the practicalities of making a living and raising a family and all that it entails.

I didn't recognize the value of some of the information I already had.

Guilty of that.

The rest of your statement I agree with.


Edited by Fnord (02/19/10 12:52 PM)
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#35823 - 02/19/10 03:23 PM Re: What's Obama's Economic Policy [Re: Fnord]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
Random replies to random bits of this thread:

 Quote:
War was declared in Iraq under Bush Sr.


Probably a technicality, but war was not declared - there was an authorization of military force (H.J. Res. 114, October 16, 2002).

 Quote:
I'm not entirely blaming it on Bush.


I am. He was the Commander in Chief, responsible for the armed forces, and he backed the Bush Doctrine of preemptive strikes, which is what got us into Iraq.

 Quote:
What I find interesting is that, after 9/11, Americans were justifiably outraged and going to war in Afghanistan was a logical step. But when Bush turned his eye towards Iraq and moved the bulk of operations to that country, everyone was in an uproar.


Afghanistan was easy to understand - they were accomplices, harboring fugitives. That maps directly in most people's minds. Iraq did not make sense to people, and was justified not under the "accomplice" motif, but as preemptive, with vague goals.

Note that I'm not necessarily against it - what I am against is that it was half-assed, which really pisses me off. If you're going to undertake something significant, especially when it involves sending citizens to die, you'd better fucking have your ducks in a row.

 Quote:
Since there is oil in Iraq, the US must be after oil, right? All the circumstantial evidence is there, and even a few bits and pieces that are downright damning.


My understanding is that this is not circumstantial, it was actual national security policy that the US would fight to protect access to that oil. I'll see if I can dig up something solid on this.

 Quote:
I'd started becoming interested in the workings of the Federal Reserve when I started becoming suspicious that the US is not a Democracy, but rather an Oligarchy.


The US has never been a democracy - we are a democratic republic.

 Quote:
It made no sense to me that it took nearly 300 billion to fix a 1 billion dollar problem until I heard this interview.


Try this one, too: http://crisisofcredit.com/
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An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

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#35824 - 02/19/10 04:27 PM Re: What's Obama's Economic Policy [Re: Autodidact]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Autodidact


The US has never been a democracy - we are a democratic republic.


That, like all of the rest of it, is up for debate as well. Some say the very reason for penning the Constitution was to squelch a Democracy in favor of a Republic (so the wealthy could stay that way) which bodes well for your argument. There are a couple of Supreme Court cases that deal with the specific use of the word 'Republic' with regard to its application to the US. The gist of those is that all citizens should have equal rights and that all should have the right to choose their government which makes what we have a Representative Democracy.

Either way I was wrong to use the word 'democracy' alone. I do that casually and probably shouldn't.

Also, based on all available evidence to date, whether it's a Representative Democracy or a Democratic Republic on paper it's still an Oligarchy in practice.
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