Page all of 10 12345>Last »
Topic Options
#3292 - 01/10/08 06:08 AM Transgenderism.
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I was wondering what the opinion of people here is of transgenderism. Not anything on a sexual basis but simply the idea that people feel they identify enough with the opposite sex that they believe they should have been born as the opposite sex.

I've spent a little time looking into this over the past to day (I tend to pick a random subject that interests me and research it for a few days for fun) and I've noticed that there are 3 main groups in this: The people who insist they are the oposite gender to what they actually are, even down to the point of expecting people to use the pronouns they prefer. There are the people who go all out and get the sex change, good for them. And then there is the third unknown group, they want to be the opposite sex but rarely act upon it, these people are often called tomboyish or metrosexual (uuuggghhh, aweful phrase).

So opinions. Comments.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#3301 - 01/10/08 12:40 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
This is an incredibly intricate topic. The issue differs from person to person just like Satanism does. If you're truly interested in one person's experience with Transgenderism, I HIGHLY suggest picking up the film VENUS OF MARS. It details the life of local a Minneapolis musician through childhood, adolescence, marriage, and adulthood with in-depth interviews of family members and friends. I've had the pleasure of meeting Steve/Venus several times and have found her to be one of the most unique and interesting people I've met.

http://www.hwpics.com/venusofmars/index.html

_________________________
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Top
#3307 - 01/10/08 03:45 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Octavius]
x.emo.danny.x Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 40
All my life when people meet me they ask if I am gay. I am not and I generally express that heavilly. At one point my girlfriend at the time said that the reason people think I am gay is because I am metrosexual. Well I don't know whether or not I actually am or not but I guess I do have some more feminine charectoristics in my personality. I loathe the term metrosexual. And just to add I think I would live just the same male or female but if I could've chosen before birth I would have chosen female.
Top
#3327 - 01/11/08 07:59 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: x.emo.danny.x]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Ironically I have been having similar experiences myself, few people think I'm gay though. (in fact I'm bisexual, and the real kind of bisexual as in I've actually had relationships with BOTH genders and find members of both genders sexually attractive, not the fake kind that think kissing someone of the same sex makes them bi).

I have notices I tend to resent woman alot, mainly for things I can do. I love womens fasion, some of the sexy things they wear are wonderful and I hate the fact that reguardless of what the event is, women have a choice of many different outfits. Men just dress up like fucking penguins.

Men don't have sexy bodies or grace either. Few men are sexy. Some are attractive, but almost never sexy. Woman can wear a multitude of different things, corsets for a start... DAMN!

On top of that, woman are much more social creatres, they are capible of levels of manipulation that I envy quite a lot. I know what they use to get there own way, I just don't have what they had... if only I was a 17 year old girl I'd be able to milk the damn world for anything I wanted just with a flash of ass and a cute giggle.

The grace is the thing I envy most. All woman are graceful. It's the main reason I play elves in video games, I like grace. However I'm a 230lb, 6'6" guy... I'm the hulking mass that bumps into everything, I hate that.

In many ways I'm stereotypically male so I doubt I'm truely transgendered but I'm much more feminine than I let on and I'm considerably more feminine than the guys I know... makes me wonder from time to time if genetics fucked up somewhere.

The thing is I also have a lot less respect for woman in that they seem incapable of honesty, integrity, logical thought or dissociating their emotions. Granted I am generalising but still, women in my experience seem to lack stability and I've quickly learned to not trust them.

Maybe it's just me. I'm in my early 20's I have time yet to "discover myself", although I think it's more discovering my emotions and tethering them down that I need to do. But enough of the self absorbed bullshit, we were discussing transgenderism....
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#3401 - 01/12/08 06:20 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
You almost sound like a misogynist. Something I've noticed is quite rampant within the gay and fringe community.

 Originally Posted By: tornadocreator
The thing is I also have a lot less respect for woman in that they seem incapable of honesty, integrity, logical thought or dissociating their emotions. Granted I am generalising but still, women in my experience seem to lack stability and I've quickly learned to not trust them.


Boy that sure is a generalisation. IF women are less capable of these qualities (which I don't actually agree with) I would say it's because society (eg men) have seen these qualities in women as unattractive. Therefore, women have from birth been taught to be dishonest about everything to maintain a stereotype of attractiveness.

As soon as a women is outspoken, self supportive, logical and emotionally dissasociated they are often labelled a lesbian, dyke, bitch or myriad of unflattering names. Staunchness in a women is rarely valued by society.

 Quote:
Few men are sexy.
I find alot of men to be very sexy. But then what I find sexy may well be different to what you do.

Anyway, I have known transgendered people on both sides of the fence, men that have had the operation to make themselves female and females that have turned male. It is the latter that is much less talked about or understood. I actually think there would be less of it, if being a standup person was considered more of a human trait rather than just a male one.

I don't think of metrosexuals as frustrated women (well not until now anyway), I just think of them as men in touch with their feminine side. Same with tomboys. I've always been a bit of a tomboy, yet I've never wanted to change sex to be a man. For one, although I've experimented and had sex with women and men, I really am straight and am attracted to men sexually. If I was to become a man, I'd then be wanting to have sex with other men, which would make me a straight women in a gay mans body. LOL or something like that.

Like Octavious said, it's a personal thing, it's going to be completely different for each person. Are you wanting to become a women?

Zephyrgirl
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


Top
#3408 - 01/12/08 10:55 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I'm not wanting to become a woman no, I just feel I exhibit traits and have feelings and tendancies that are too feminine. I would love to wear pink, pink is gorgeous, but damn does it look aweful on a man.... that's not normal for a guy to say or even think.

I am male. Gender is not a democracy. Pronouns are not negotiable, HOWEVER! I also feel that there are some people who would fit in to society better as a member of the opposite sex. I think I don't fit in either, I feel equally male and female tendancies and I am bisexual as well. I'm the untimate middleground. I would however be having exactly the same convosation if I was a woman, wanting to have the strength, power and stature of a man as apposed to the grace and beauty of a woman.

As for me being a misogynist. I like to think I'm not personally. I'm more of a masculanist, (which is like a feminist but opposite and with an actual issue to conbat, unlike todays feminists who alreay have everything and more).
I worry if I'm allowing certain people to tarnish my veiw of a gender but then I realise it's not just certain people. They have worsened the case, but I have seen the traits I hate in almost all those I've met and I think that those who don't show these traits are simply the exception to the rule. Sorry if that comes across as pretentious.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#3410 - 01/12/08 11:17 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
I wear my pink (and I mean PINK) shoes to work every day! I get compliments from both coworkers and customers all day long regardless of their gender or orientation! Pink is just a color. If you assign more meaning to it, then it will mean something. This goes into the same concept as "can you pull off that outfit?" I wear my pink shoes, cuffed blue jeans and dickies shirts with pride and style. Your avatar paints you as a snappy dresser...I'm a bit surprised to hear you have issues based on color!

Wear what makes you feel good. And make it look good!
_________________________
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Top
#3411 - 01/13/08 12:05 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Octavius]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I consider myself to be a snappy dreser actually and I do where what I like however it's still not the cultural norm, I never said I conformed to the cultural norm, just that it's a slight concern of mine.

Personally I think pink looks gaudy on most men, some can look good in it, most I feel don't. However I think differing shades of red look wonderful on a man. They can really bring out his shape and make him more demanding and agressive without it being threatening like black or white frequently is. Mixing black and red can give an air of danger and confidence whilst mixing white an red can give an aura of dignity and elegance.

Colour can say a lot about a person, colour can express a persons innermost feeling and effects most people on a profound primal level. Yet at the same time it could just be what that person had clean left in the wardrobe.

Fashion is something I find intruiging really.

My main concern is that I don't want to gradiually become this....


Start watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq6yRo4IsBI
at 4:56 in and you'll see a much better example of what I mean, the picture is not very good.


Edited by TornadoCreator (01/13/08 12:07 AM)
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#3450 - 01/14/08 12:12 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
birdstrike Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
I think that through life each person has to become different people. It is important to explore every different aspect of ones personality. I will say this though: I don't believe that anybody was "born the wrong sex". At the same time though I think that if one feels the urge to explore then it will only benefit ones personality to do so.

On the other hand it is still a freak show to me when I see a man dressed as woman. I still take the opportunity to exercise my superior morality, and take on life, by laughing at them. After all anything different to me is still a threat. I am an animal!
_________________________
Isn't being a Satanist against the ideas of Satanism?

Top
#3457 - 01/14/08 01:12 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
I am fascinated with transgenders as they will themselves to change to a very specific metamorphasis. I think it's a lesson in lesser magic. They alter their appearence, their mannerisms, their speech patterns and tone. They use chemicals and surgery towards these ends. The results range from embarrassing to a completely convincing illusion. It is a human trait to desire to alter one's surroundings and even one's self. Changing one's sex is more challenging than say, changing one's shoes.
Fascinating.

Top
#3466 - 01/14/08 04:20 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
I understand what you are saying about pink and men, when it comees to colours like fuscia, but there are many varying shades of pink, enough that there should be one to suit anyone. Maybe a nice shade of pale red would suit you better. LOL
I recently attended an event where 13000 put on hot pink ponchos and formed the shape of a pink lady on a football oval. My ex-husband and daughter attended it with me and we have a wonderful photo of the three of us at it. However, the pink wasn't really a very nice shade and none of us looked particularly good in it, although I think my ex came out the worst. Everyone who has seen it has made some sort of sarcaastic comment about a gay grim reaper. LOL

 Originally Posted By: tornadocreator
which is like a feminist but opposite and with an actual issue to conbat, unlike todays feminists who alreay have everything and more


Whilst the feminine movement has made great gains in some ways, it is debateable to say that there is no longer an issue to combat. On the old site there was a thread about Hilary Clinton that turned into a debate about feminism, which highlighted (to me anyway) the fact that feminism is a very misunderstood term, often used as an insult these days. I'm not saying that you are wrong to be a masculinist, it's just a pet peave of mine.

About that though, you sound like you want to be true to yourself, and show all those wonderful feminine qualities you possess, but are afraid to be seen in that light. True masculinity isn't afraid to wear pink or be graceful. Gender is what it is and there will always be people that are androgenous or overtly gender challanged should we say. I don't think it matters one iota, unless you lack confidence in the person that you are. Don't think that being a woman would make your life easier, that just isn't true. Both sexes have advantages and disadvantages to deal with.
They are not equal, but neither is better than the other either, they are just different for the most part.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


Top
#3474 - 01/14/08 10:39 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I understand entirely ZephyrGirl, I'm more man than woman by far, in manerisms and opinions however I feel much more feminine than other men I see around me and that concerns me, after all, becoming a social outcast can really put barriers up for people and although my friends would likely either not notice or not care about me showing more feminine traits the rest of the world will likely react bad. This is the same world I need to function in, get a job in, etc. That's why it's a concern for me. Sometimes, for a few minutes I wonder what it would be like to be female and I have often wished I was, for only moments. I however know I would likely have even more problems if I was female than I do now.

As for feminism, I feel it's done it's job. Women now, in this country at least, have the right to vote, the right to work, and the right to equal pay. It went to far when they where given the right to 18 months payed maternaty leave, get preferensial treatment in child custody cases on the grounds that "children need there mothers" and can cause civil suit cases because the queue to use the womans toilets in a mall is 3 times longer that the men toilets (mainly because men piss and get out of there, women spend half an hour chatting, reappling make-up, ajusting there bra/wig/fake nails and always seem to go in FUCKING PAIRS). Masculinists want this to change, we want fair hearings in custody battles, paternaty leave equal to that of the womans maternaty leave if the mothers job is more vital and less gender expectations... if woman want to be equal in that they can work, vote and have equal pay, they should buy there own drinks at a nightclub, split the cost of a meal and pay for there own god damn cinema ticket. That's my stance.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#3486 - 01/15/08 07:35 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I'm with you on many points, TC, and I myself have many "masculine" traits, despite my being female. I'm aggressive (not physically so, but wow I curse--ever since 4th grade I've had a mouth), I prefer working and hanging out with men, because of their sick humor, they don't gripe and gossip and undercut each other the way women do (I just can't understand that about women, you know?). I love sex, and fantasize about it all the time. I was quite a tomboy as a child, going fishing with my dad, helping him do yard work, going with him and participating in RC boat shows around Florida, etc. But I still played with my dolls. Granted, I may have shaved their heads and had them raped or put on the rack by Ken or other Barbies, but still

On the flip side, I do like to dress up, wear jewelry, paint my toenails (I can't wear nail polish--I use with solvents at work which takes it right off), keep my nails looking decent, I'm picky about my hair, but keep it short to have away from my face.

As for the whole feminism issue, yes, it's gotten a bit out of hand. But that happens when someone/group has been under the yoke of domination for eons...they get a little carried away at first, but eventually it'll calm down and balance out. Women have only been "liberated" for less than 100 years. Give them time to get comfortable with their situation, and learn how to exist in their redefined roles (which are still in an upheaval), and it'll get better for both sexes.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#3488 - 01/15/08 12:06 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Nemesis]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Well it's nice to know I'm not the only one experiencing a little gender-role confusion here.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#3490 - 01/15/08 01:32 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Stag Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 84
Transhumanist blogger, George P. Dvorsky recently wrote a thought-provoking blog essay on 'postgenderism':

Overcoming Gender

Stag

Top
#3771 - 02/02/08 02:11 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
I was wondering what the opinion of people here is of transgenderism. Not anything on a sexual basis but simply the idea that people feel they identify enough with the opposite sex that they believe they should have been born as the opposite sex.

I've spent a little time looking into this over the past to day (I tend to pick a random subject that interests me and research it for a few days for fun) and I've noticed that there are 3 main groups in this: The people who insist they are the oposite gender to what they actually are, even down to the point of expecting people to use the pronouns they prefer. There are the people who go all out and get the sex change, good for them. And then there is the third unknown group, they want to be the opposite sex but rarely act upon it, these people are often called tomboyish or metrosexual (uuuggghhh, aweful phrase).

So opinions. Comments.


I don't hate, I give respect where its due, and some of those Newhalf Thai TGirls are freaking hot! I'd bang one. But then you get those TGirls that don't even try to look pretty - like the bikers in the moomoo with the lipstick on and the hairy legs sitting next to you at your Transgender support group meeting. I have several books on the subject of "transgenderism."

From what I've researched XY chromosome baring people tend to suffer from Gender Disphoria more often than XX girls because of certain factors that come into play while the XY fetus is in the womb?

Certain stress hormones that the mother's body produces are molecularly similar to estrogen. Hypothetically if the mother were in a situation where famine, war, struggle, puts a large amount of stress on her, these hormones floods the fetus's developing body and attaches onto the receptors. The receptors is fooled into thinking that it has estrogen in its grip, but these hormones don't cause the fetal body to undergo change. It only affects the more liquid or amorphous brain by making the fetus's "Bed Nucleus of the Stria Terminalis" bigger than that of a male's brain. The Bed Nucleus is the seat of one's subjective gender identity. In men it is smaller. The baby in this situation is born "Lordotic" a term transgender shrinks use. Lordosis is when a rat or cat in sexual heat places herself in front of a male, points her rear to him and arches her back. These Lordotic boys grow up either attracted to other boys as bottoms or are born with female brains and a male body and would not initiate mating or breeding with a female. This, according to some studies is a reactionary measure to keep the number of a tribe or group of people low as a reaction to the harsh stressful conditions. Some rat mothers were put into very stressful living conditions to test this hypothesis and many of the male rats grew up lordotic and kept on trying to get guy rats to mount them LOL.

Whatever it is I personally don't think it should have anything to do with a person being able to be a Satanist?


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (02/02/08 02:15 PM)
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


Top
#3788 - 02/02/08 08:21 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
The only problem that I see with what you are saying luciferific is that it doesn't explain the amount of women who beleive they are in 'mens' bodies. There are no XY girls.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


Top
#3794 - 02/02/08 08:45 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: ZephyrGirl]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: ZephyrGirl
The only problem that I see with what you are saying luciferific is that it doesn't explain the amount of women who beleive they are in 'mens' bodies. There are no XY girls.

Zeph

I know, that's a good point. Most of the books I've read on Transgenderism and the specialists that study this can't scientifically explain what could cause a girl to feel like she is a man; but from personal experience I have a girl cousin who since she learned to talk swore she was a boy and she refuses till this day to wear dresses. Studies do show thoe in the brains of females that have gone thru Sexual Reassignment (after they died they gave their broains to science) that their Bed Nucleus is smaller than a normal XX female's and is about the same size as a man's but no one know why. So I refrained from saying anything.
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


Top
#3821 - 02/03/08 04:02 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
An excerpt from an article I found about the subject at hand:

"Researchers in the Netherlands have discovered that a region of the hypothalamus, located at the floor of the brain, is about 50 percent larger in men than in women, and almost 60 percent larger in men than in male-to-female transsexuals. If smallness of this brain structure is at all correlated with the feeling of being a woman, the results raise tantalizing possibilities that transsexuals may in a sense be more female than females."

"In heterosexual and homosexual men, the bed nucleus measures about 2.6 cubic millimeters, about the size of the colorful, spherical head of a pushpin. In women, it averages 1.73 millimeters, and in transsexuals the average figure is 1.3. Some scientists cautioned that the estrogen treatment the transsexuals took as part of their sex-change therapy might have affected the size of their hypothalamus; but the Dutch researchers tried to rule out that factor by including brains of transsexuals who had stopped estrogen years earlier, as well as brains of men and women with varying hormonal conditions. In no case did the size of the bed nucleus appear to be influenced by adult hormone levels."
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#3872 - 02/05/08 05:25 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Stag]
puk Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 21
Loc: richmond, va
im a guy, but i have many feminine qualities. i personally think that everyone has male and female characteristics, its jsut a matter of how much, and the amount of embracing one does.
_________________________
'wuznt me

Top
#3888 - 02/05/08 10:56 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: puk]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
I took herbal estrogen pills for 12 months as an experiement. I kept a log of how things went on a daily basis, like how I felt, you know. Then I stopped cuz my nipples were getting all tender and starting to look like they were swollen; I was shaving and nairing every thing I could shave and nair... and then I found myself shopping at Macy's in the womens section; then I said, Fuck, this is sooo unsatanic. Estrogen is a trip man. Its an upper for men. It slowly...subtly... and gradually changes the way you feel, see things, and act. I'll never do that again. But the plus side is my skin is really soft now!

Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (02/05/08 11:00 PM)
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


Top
#4947 - 03/07/08 06:01 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
If they do not feel comfortable within themselves and feel the urge to change their physical appearance; then let them do it.
_________________________
"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky

Top
#26960 - 07/08/09 07:36 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Stag]
Lucifershal0 Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 18
Loc: Mt.Pleasant, SC
i was going through a ''transition'' a few years ago and when i tried to tell my friends, family and current gf i was ridiculed, and lost alot of friends. my dad thought i was gay but im only attracted to females. im close to being obsessed with womens fashion. my current gf cant stand the way i feel about myself. it makes it worse with a baby on the way but i cant help the way i feel. i was soooo close to getting estrogen hormones to reverse my testosterone. when i get dressed up you cant tell im a male. having naturally long hair helps. so ya its odd i found this post!!! kudos for discussing!!!


j.d.

Top
#26974 - 07/09/09 05:09 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Lucifershal0]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Even with out reading through all this thread has to offer, I have an opinion on the subject. (Suprise suprise ;\) )

I am a fan of she-male porn (say what you want, but some of those "chicks" are hot and you know it) and because of that I am all for people undergoing a sex change operation. Whether or not they understand the implications of such a procedure is of no consequence to me because I am not the one undergoing said procedure.

My cousin went through a sex change operation, and because of that, my uncle, AKA his father, did not want him at the family Thanksgiving dinner. I found this quite funny because I was made to stand in the corner at 5 years old, by him (my uncle) for turning Bob Saget's name into a homosexual epithet. I would hope that I do not have to elaborate on that any further.

My point being that it is pretty ridiculous that he would stand up for the "good name" of this total stranger, but not his own flesh and blood.

Oh, and it bears mentioning that I am no longer allowed at the yearly Thanksgiving dinner for standing up for my cousin. Makes me glad I am "estranged" from that side of the family.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#26984 - 07/09/09 12:59 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Happy Birthday Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York
Being about 20 percent Bi, I have to admit, that on some level, I also find some of those transexuals quite hot. Although many who are just plain cross dressers are on the nasty side.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#26996 - 07/10/09 01:59 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Asmedious]
hellbent666
Unregistered



I'm not in the least bit bi, but holy shit! I saw covers for transexual porn and I was like, "Nah, that can't be a dude! No fucking way!" Smokin hot! Some of these men turning into women look better than a ton of women I know! LOL! What is wrong with me?
Top
#27000 - 07/10/09 05:13 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: ]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Why would there have to be something wrong with you? Maybe there is a side of you that you haven't accepted. Sex is sex and fun is fun. Enjoy it while you can because this is the only shot you get.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#27002 - 07/10/09 05:51 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Having lived for so long in the San Francisco Bay Area, I suppose the shock value of transgenderism wore off after about the 10th person I met. And I've seen a lot of shemales that are interesting to say the least. But the one thing that I found is that they seem to get female right from the down and dirty gut-instincts of most healthy men. They tend to go a bit over the top and hit that fantasy lever that we all have in the backs of our heads... the ones that make us look at Marilyn, Jayne Mansfield, Mamie VanDoren, and other "extreme" stereotypes, nod our heads and know that all is right with the world.

And you're right. Some of them can make you doubt your own senses, KNOWING that they're male, at least from birth, but beautiful as any woman ever born. If you're ever in the San Francisco area, just take a trip through the Polk/Turk Street areas or drive through the Castro and you'll be amazed. Of course, there are THE OTHERS... the ones that Frank Zappa wrote about in Broken Hearts Are For Assholes...

"And dagmar
(Without a doubt, the ugliest sonofabitch I ever saw in my life)
Was his name...
(One two three four!)
The whiskers sticking out from underneath of his
Pancake make-up
(And yet he was a beautiful lady)
Nearly drove you insane"
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#27031 - 07/11/09 10:43 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Jake999]
hellbent666
Unregistered



What is wrong with me is I'm attracted to men that turned into women! That isn't right! I like WOMEN!!! But honestly if you put half of these beautiful transgendered women next to equally stimulating genuine women, I would be hard pressed to be able to tell which one was which. I'm not bi, but I am able to appreciate beauty when I see it. I'm an aspiring body builder so don't even get me started on physiques! I see a well sculpted physique on anyone, and I'm damn muh fucker, your hard work is paying off! So most hetero men would say, "So are you gay or something?" and my reply is always, "No dude. Just as straight as you are but I have a deeper appreciation for the beauty in people than you do." No one understands this. If there are any body builders on this forum they'll almost unanimously say the same thing, "We aspire to have the body that men envy, and women cream themselves looking at." Unless of course said body builder is gay ;\)

I don't like a lot of the HGH freaky looking female figure competitors though. Bigger arms and lats than me is a huge turn off... But women that look like women that were once men? Hot but I wouldn't touch it with my worst enemies dick! LOL!

My token transgendered friend is a sweetie though. I really respect her a great deal, as she gives hope to others with similar struggles. She doesn't look like a woman though, pretty manish in the face. Still, mad props! Be you and be proud!

Top
#27137 - 07/15/09 04:08 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: ]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
There's nothing wrong with thinking that some "traps" are hot. In fact, there's something wrong with you if you DON'T. The Thai ones are especially pretty.

If you want to turn yourself into a ladyboy, go right ahead and do your thing. But my problem is when people do it WRONG, ie, they don't get it until they're too old, or they simply DON'T have the type of body for it, and as a result they look like monstrosities.

Seriously, if you don't already look feminine, DON'T get an operation; it will only make you look worse. And keep your dick, too- it may look out of place, but it's better than castrating yourself and having to miss out on sex the rest of your life.

On that note, I suspect that I'm actually a lesbian trapped in a man's body...


Edited by The Zebu (07/15/09 04:09 PM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#28935 - 08/27/09 03:29 AM Testosterone & Estrogen [Re: TornadoCreator]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
I will probably get in trouble for saying this, but a lot of supposed "gender confusion" is just the result, very simply so, of your body's natural production/balance of testosterone & estrogen being out of whack. Both males and females produce & need both, but in different levels and balances; and much of this is age-related.

Go here and listen to the 8/25/09 broadcast on "Testosterone". If you don't see it on the main page, check the Archives.

This is important not just where your sexual feelings and attitudes are concerned, but also with your health generally, particularly as you age.

I am a case in point. When I mentioned to my doctor some months ago that I seemed to be getting exhausted much sooner than I used to, he had my testosterone levels tested (a simple blood test). They turned out to be very low, so he prescribed AndroGel, which is a daily skin dose [to bypass the liver]. [It also happens to be covered by insurance.] Within about a month of getting back up to the normal range, I became much more alert and energetic, muscletone began to increase [e.g. trips to the gym began to show results instead of just being tedious], and I don't have to worry about falling asleep at the wheel on the freeway anymore (!).

I should mention that the idea is to bring the body's failing natural production back up to a normal/ideal level, not to turn you into a libido-crazed werewolf. Nor is this a beefcake trip; the goal here is simply good health. Listen to that program, then - particularly if you are midlife(+), ask your doctor to test you.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#35520 - 02/12/10 04:11 AM Re: Testosterone & Estrogen [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Shadow Dragon Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 95
I agree with MawhrinSkel. People have to right to mold or modify their body however they want to. Though I admit, that I'm probably a little bias in this (well more so than the average person) since I am transgendered... kind of.

Mentally, I'm in the grey area between male and female, though I'm closer to female. And I plan to take some steps in feminizing my body (mainly to get rid of body and facial hair).
_________________________
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." - Socrates
Cogito ergo sum.

Top
#35527 - 02/12/10 08:44 AM Re: Testosterone & Estrogen [Re: Shadow Dragon]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Good for you, Shadow Dragon! I'm transgender as well and I promise to make a fuller response to this when I have time to get my thoughts sufficiently in order to make a readable post. \:\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#35577 - 02/12/10 09:28 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
The Blackangel Offline
member


Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Missouri
I am also transgendered as well as bisexual. Since early childhood I always thought something was wrong with me. I thought I should have been a girl. These days I am open about it somewhat, my wife knows and doesn't mind that I lean more into a female personality than male. She even calls me by a female name.

Also as it sits I am currently working on a website for transgendered/homosexual people. It should be up sometime this summer.
_________________________
Don't dance with the Devil if you don't know the steps.

Top
#35831 - 02/19/10 06:30 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Stag]
contragenic Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/10/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Phoenix,Az
For all those who keep regurgitating the word "think" in posting on this thread, it is not and never will be about what You think.
I have friends on both sides of the gender variant spectrum and in order to truly be a friend one must agree to their terms.Meeting people where they are at means that all of the societal rules that we are programmed with Must be suspended in order to be a true friend. He says he is a she, she says she is a he, so what.It is not for me or anyone else to define someones truth through my lens, my only choice as a friend is to accept whatever they say as the truth. Gender has absolutely nothing to do with biology/anatomy and it is a very fluid thing, meaning that what is true today may be different tomorrow. That does not change the heart of a person, they will always be the person I love and respect. Most days I wear all black, occasionally I wear some color,this practice is about what makes Me comfortable in my skin and in the world, and it does not change who I am.
There is entirely too much voyeurism involved in this thread and not enough introspection. Many of the posts seem to be asking the same question, "who or what do you have sex with" which is nobodys business. Picking a subject at random and researching it in order to understand is admirable,but people are not here to entertain us,they are just trying to live and be happy in spite of this uber ugly world. Looking at people who are different and focusing on the difference is counter productive, the whole person must be embraced not just bits and pieces.
I am a crusty bastard, and I don't pull any punches either with friends or strangers.If I am having my lunch with chopsticks and someone shows too much interest in how adept I am at using them they will leave after I insult them. I am just trying to eat my fucking lunch ok, you want to be entertained go turn on your stupid tv. Grow Up.

Top
#37402 - 04/05/10 09:17 PM Re: Testosterone & Estrogen [Re: felixgarnet]
Shadow Dragon Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 95
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet
Good for you, Shadow Dragon! I'm transgender as well and I promise to make a fuller response to this when I have time to get my thoughts sufficiently in order to make a readable post. \:\)

*poke* Hey Felix, have you managed to think of a fuller responce yet? I'm curious as to your full thoughts on the matter.

Mods, I apologize in advance if this post is deemed too short.
_________________________
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." - Socrates
Cogito ergo sum.

Top
#37443 - 04/07/10 08:16 PM Re: Testosterone & Estrogen [Re: Shadow Dragon]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Thank you for giving me the kick in the pants I needed, Shadow Dragon! Just to start with, I'll post a copy of my reply to the question, "Felix - when did you first realise you were not destined to follow the life that convention usually dictates?" from another board:


OK, well I probably decided that as soon as my neurones started firing but didn't have the language to express how I would be willing to live until much later. I was never a child who insisted that I was "the other" sex - I just felt, and still feel, no particular identity with either. In my 40's lots of stuff, including chronic illness that gave me way too much time to be introvert, colluded to make me attempt to clarify who and what I was. Male came out as the closest option; I "knew" I wasn't a woman (not a masculine woman, that's another type of person) but bodily I could see every day that I wasn't a man. So . . .
Eventually, after my father's death and when my hair began to grey and when I realised the pregnancy I never wanted was no longer an option, I came to the double-whammy realisation that a) I was beginning to feel better and stronger and b) I had had more than half my life and sleep-walked through it.
After quite a few years activism with the trans community and a lot of soul-searching I met up with like-minded folk and we set up a social and support group whose establishment took place in my 50th year. I decided this would be my Golden Year and set to work exploring what changes were possible and how to make them. So far I have legally changed my name and title, have had blood tests and am waiting for assessment for hormones. I feel that I have never "grown up" and am curious to experience body/mind/soul congruence in so far as anyone can.


Quite a bit has happened since then (about a year ago). I do now take male hormones under professional supervision and am waiting for assessment for breast reduction/chest construction surgery.
My Gender Odyssey, or whatever you want to call it, is essential to my Satanic development. I'll be starting a fresh thread on this subject very soon. \:\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#37497 - 04/10/10 07:45 PM Re: Testosterone & Estrogen [Re: felixgarnet]
Babylonian Dream Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 43
Loc: Upstate New York
I've always felt a little like a girl, but always mostly like a guy. While I'm not transgender, at least I don't think I fit the definition, I can identify with it a little. I think that if someone wants to modify their body, more power to them. You're body is all yours, enjoy!

Though I like to look halfway in between male and female just by keeping my hair long, and cherishing that I don't yet have facial hair. I like that I can confuse people, because freaking people out a little can be fun.
_________________________
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" Sagan

Top
#37542 - 04/12/10 12:37 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Damis Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 60
Loc: England
To me it seems that one of the biggest potential problems when being transgendered is the prospect and inevitable need to deal with ones own immediate family. Granted some people may be lucky enough to have parents who accept and will support such things, but for a lot of people who feel they are 'Transgendered', reactions from their family can range from shock to being outright disowned. At least for me it seems the most daunting step that I will maybe one day have to take. Running a close second would be friends, but for the fact that different friends can be gained (easier said than done granted), either by finding new people or moving to a new location, however with your immediate family this is not the case.

Although personally I have never approached my own parents on the subject and have kept it hidden. Considering they are very racist and homophobic, I don't think Transgenderism would go down well with them and so for now, keeping it out of sight would seem to be the best course of action for me personally.

In fact, I can see a link between Transgenderism and Religion when the family is concerned, to take an example of a popular thread from this forum, "Satanism and the Family", by not conforming with the values or expectations of ones family, you run the risk of negative consequences. Similarly with both, there is the decision one must make between being ones true self or conforming for the sake of peace. However in the scenario of Satanism and the family, Satanism has the benefit of being able to be concealed from unwanted attention whilst still functioning, whilst Transgenderism involves changing oneself to how you feel is your proper state gender wise and cannot be concealed due to the aesthetic and behavioural changes involved.
_________________________
Leben ist krieg.

Top
#37613 - 04/14/10 11:01 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Damis]
Babylonian Dream Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 43
Loc: Upstate New York
For me, I have nothing to lose familywise. I never talked to my parents to begin with, though I live with them. They might as well be on the opposite side of the country, I have little to nothing to do with them.

I came out to my friends, I was lucky in that they were accepting. Turns out, I found out why they accepted me and others didn't, most of my friends turned out to be in similar shoes while others thought I was gay.

For me, I knew that in telling people at school I ran the risk of saying something, being abused by people in the school, and not having anyone to turn to for help. Though I just figured that I would just take whatever came, as I always do, and just deal with it.

I don't plan on telling my parents. By the time they can find out, I would've already moved on with my life elsewhere.
_________________________
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" Sagan

Top
#39533 - 06/23/10 08:18 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Babylonian Dream]
Clicks Offline
member


Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 114
Loc: New Orleans
Just a little bit of a personal story here.

I was on deployment to thailand for a training exercise back in February. We were stationed in Khorat doing the exercise, but seeing as my MOS really doesn't have much to do on a deployment, I was able to talk some people into letting me get on a non-approved tour down to Pattaya along with a couple of my buds. I don't know if anyone here has been to Pattaya, but there is a street there, maybe a mile long called walking street, and it's for the most part go-go bars and whores. Well, me and my buds were sitting at this little outside bar that was part of a little row of similar bars at the side of the street after you first get there. All the little bars there were staffed by whores. I noticed one there at the one we were at that looked a little dudular. I called her over and started talking to her. With in a few minutes of subtly confirming through converstation, I realised that this chick was indeed a dude. I had asked how long she had been a girl, and she told me she always had. To me that signified that she had never felt she was a man, even when she was, and always identified with the female persona. Turns out about 10% of the whores out there in Pattaya were transgendered. Not quite so many up in Khorat, but still a decent amount. It's much more acceptable in thailand be be transgendered. I don't know if it's because the children aren't taught so stringently that homosexuality is wrong or what, but it got me thinking: whithout such a Christian influence on everything in the United States, I'm pretty sure something similar would happen. Without being ridiculed for acting how they feel, children would become more comfortable with themselves and the ones that choose so and feel so would be more free to get a sex change and not have to worry about social reprecussions.

Just my 2 cents.
_________________________
Join your local Wizards' Association today!

Top
#39639 - 06/28/10 04:39 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Clicks]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
I am actually currently working with a person who has had a sex change. Now I havent actually spoken to her about it but from what I gather from other topics we have discussed she did not have an easy childhood, or at least looks back at it that way, and tends to think its because she was different.

I can absolutely see why. When I first started working with her I didnt know what to make of it. Here is this tall person, with a manly voice, small breasts and hair thats medium length but not in an obvious male nor female hair style. The body language was very feminine but the body itself looks more masculine. Its just a very weird feeling not being able to place someone on a male/female scale.

Of course as I got to know her (formerly him) I realized that she was a woman but had been a man. But its still weird for me to use the word "she" when talking about her.

She is very well read and we actually had a great conversation about the concept of time and about its existence or non-existence as an objective reality just the other day.

I wouldnt like the word "bothered" but there is still something I find very weird about the body language in relation to the body actually showing it. But I do have a problem in general with people who are overly animated and this person is very feminine in body language but very masculine in body type and voice. It creates a weird contrast.

Still, I dont mind if people have sex-changes if thats what they want. And I can still be friends with someone who has had it so I dont really have any moral problems with it.

Top
#39715 - 06/30/10 10:54 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TheInsane]
Clicks Offline
member


Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 114
Loc: New Orleans
I can see where you're coming from with people being overly animated. In homosexuals or transgenders it seems a lot of the time that they try to act more feminine than they feel, trying to make a people to other people that they are indeed a little different. I can understand wanting recognition, especially when you're lifestyle is looked down upon by a large number of others, but when you make a point of acting a way that you're not, or exagerating yourself, to me thats acting as someone else, your not being yourself, and I can't respect that. I'm not saying that all gays or trannies are this way (and I'm certainly not saying at all that I don't approve of them, to each their own), but portraying yourself as something you're not whilst seeking out attention just isn't something I like. There were a couple whores up in thailand that would come and sit next to me in a bar, that I wouldn't have known otherwise whether or not that they were transgendered had it not been for the overly feminine way they acted. They really do some great work with the surgery up there though. Shit's legit. I had a hilarious experience one night when I ended up brining one back to my hotel room. However, that is a story for another time.
_________________________
Join your local Wizards' Association today!

Top
#39719 - 07/01/10 12:33 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Clicks]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Well, I don't imagine I come over as particularly over-animated or feminine ;\) - there are female-to-male transgender people, you know! I'll come back to this thread when I've more time but felt it necessary to chime in.
Meanwhile - anyone who wants to ask a question, please prepare it and I'll do my utmost to answer. \:\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#39757 - 07/01/10 09:13 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
Shadow Dragon Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 95
There's two big reasons why many transwomen (ie male to females) often act in a hyper feminine, over animated manner.

First off, it's because many of them had to repress their feminine sides for a long time. Think of it like a shaken up soda. Once the cap is removed, the pressure causes the soda to come flying out.

Secondly, they are doing it to fit in. They go all out with their girlyness to try to get people to accept that they're women. A natural born woman will hardly ever get questioned on her femaleness. Even if she acts in a tomboyish manner. However if a transwoman shows any signs of masculinity, then she won't be accepted as being female by many and will simply be seen as a man in a dress, so to speak.

Obviously, this doesn't go for all ftm transwomen. Some are simply very feminine by nature. Others won't act in a feminine manner, even though they are transitioning.
_________________________
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." - Socrates
Cogito ergo sum.

Top
#39857 - 07/03/10 11:51 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Shadow Dragon]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
You might be on to something there but its still annoying and since a person who has had a sex change almost never seems to be able to truly act like one f the other sex its creates a weird appearance where one isnt sure of what they actually are. At least thats how I see it. As I said before I have nothing against it but in some ways it feels forced.

On a related note I discussed the gay culture with a femlae friend of mine and this is roughly what she had to say. She has nothing against homosexuals, she has even been in relationships with women (although she claims it was a phase and not really homosexual or bisexual). She also has gay friends which she used to have no problem with. She says that suddenly alot of them start to wear pink, act feminine, get fake tans only watch "gay movies" and look down upon people who has more traditional gender roles as if they were wrong. She feels that with more freedom for homosexual people the more some of them try to reverse the structure so to speak. If a "man is a man" he'sconsidered a macho swine and if a "woman is a woman" she is considered a bimbo.

I guess its like when one was a teen a some pople started to move into various subcultures and start to change alot (I was probably one of those people to be honest). Others couldnt understand the change and relations gets messed up because the change might not feel sincere for people who knew you before.

Top
#39864 - 07/03/10 12:52 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TheInsane]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
"Obviously, this doesn't go for all ftm transwomen. Some are simply very feminine by nature. Others won't act in a feminine manner, even though they are transitioning." Shadow Dragon.

Some good points there but ftms are FEMALE-TO-MALE transsexuals like me! \:\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#39985 - 07/05/10 04:44 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
Shadow Dragon Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 95
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet
"Obviously, this doesn't go for all ftm transwomen. Some are simply very feminine by nature. Others won't act in a feminine manner, even though they are transitioning." Shadow Dragon.

Some good points there but ftms are FEMALE-TO-MALE transsexuals like me! \:\)

Ha, my mistake. I meant mtf, not ftm. Though I wouldn't be surprised if some ftm transmen acted in an hyper-masculine manner when they first start transitioning.
_________________________
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." - Socrates
Cogito ergo sum.

Top
#39994 - 07/05/10 12:01 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Shadow Dragon]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Heh, some do, yes! The metaphorical "pissing contest" is quite a prevalent phenomenon amongst transmen. As is the hairier chest/ legs/face competition. Eventually, things settle down though and we just fall into being ourselves - whatever that may be. I know academics, van drivers, drag artists, photographers and local government officers, as diverse a group as any other.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#39997 - 07/05/10 08:00 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet
Heh, some do, yes! The metaphorical "pissing contest" is quite a prevalent phenomenon amongst transmen. As is the hairier chest/ legs/face competition. Eventually, things settle down though and we just fall into being ourselves - whatever that may be. I know academics, van drivers, drag artists, photographers and local government officers, as diverse a group as any other.

Throughout this entire thread I keep having flashbacks to an old "Little Annie Fanny" episode in Playboy in which our hapless heroine found herself in the middle of, and completely confused by, an LGBT social affair. One memorable quote: "My girdle's killing me - so's my jock!"

Is this a great country or what?
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#39999 - 07/05/10 08:53 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
If you take a drive through San Francisco's "gay areas," you'll see just about every variation of homosexual from the people you'd have no idea for sure, to the trannys who could give some models a run for their money to guys who've opted for ultra feminine from Marilyn to Jessica Rabblt. Same thing for the female to male crowd as well. It's all pretty much just a matter of coming to grips with who and what they are in their mind, and making it show on the outside as best they can. It's seldom trying to BE.

I worked with a preop before I retired, and we were fairly close friends, as friends go. We'd have coffee near the office, share a joke or talk about some of the things going on in his/her life. SHE was in the full dressing and living as a woman phase by about 6 months before I left. You could tell the end result would be a handsome woman... probably not gorgeous, but definitely attractive. One day over lunch came the question. "Jake, once I get the surgery and am finally a woman, would YOU ever have sex with me?" I chugged down a swallow of my drug of choice (Diet Coke) and said, "That would be like doin' my own sister."

The question hadn't crossed my mind. We'd always just been friends, and good ones at that. I don't usually have sex with my friends, but I had to think about my personal comfort levels with a male/female transgender postop. For all intent and purpose, they are female at that point, although incapable of breeding... a plus in my book. I knew postop transexuals that I had a casual relationship with, and while we might joke, a serious liaison never came into question.

I still don't know how I would definitely answer that question, even today. I see them as female and support them in whatever gets them through the night. But having sex with them would probably fall into the same logic that I have when considering sex with a biological female. I'd have to WANT to, and I would have to find something in them that MAKES me want to. As for whether my head could wrap around it psychologically if it came down to it, I suppose that would be something that would have to be figured out in the harsh light of reality.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#40007 - 07/05/10 11:44 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Jake999]
Clicks Offline
member


Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 114
Loc: New Orleans
Well I guess now is time for my Pattaya story. So basically how it goes is me and my 3 buds were on this tour up there from Khorat, and we get in there about 1 am, rules are we aren't allowed outside the hotel after midnight, but all 40 of us that were there said "fuck it!" and started leaving. We had a pretty good time being molested at all the bars and basically just walking around being menaces. Eventually, at like 4 am, we head back to the hotel and one of my buddies says, "Awright, now, I wanted to get laid tonight, so Miles and Stilwell, you guys go out and bring back some girls for us." So, me and Stilwell head out back to walking street. As soon as we get there this obvious transgender walks up to me saying something about 'sexy man' (I was lied to a lot there). Now Stilwell had it in is head that he had to do something great and bring back a bunch of lady boys to the other guys. I didn't realise his plan until this one particular one and 2 of her friends walked over to us. I was still trying to get legitimately laid though, so when this other girl came walking over from a different bar a little ways down the street I said "Ok Ima go with that one." So, at this point I think what we have is 3 lady boys and 1 legit female. So we head back to the hotel, I take mine upstairs, and the other 3 go with Stilwell to the other guys' room. I get upstairs, and this should have set off my sensors immediately, she just wanted to chill and have beers for a minute. So, we get around to doing what we were going to do, and when it finally comes time I slip it in and realise something is wrong. "Sorry bro, you gotta leave," I say, and she/he gets dressed and leaves. Then I go to the other room, and get a great story about what had happened in there. Stilwell delivered the trannies to the room. One of my buds wears glasses, but apparently could tell right away without them that they girls were dudes. So Stilwell pushes them inside and goes downstairs to smoke while he waits for me to finish. Now, upstairs, my buds were refusing to pay, so one of them, one of my current room mates, leaves the room, with poor Blooms left to fend for himself. Apparently when he still refused to pay them, two of them held him on the bed while the 3rd tries to force oral on him in an attempt to still get him to pay. Now blooms is a big enough guy, so even while drunk, he still manages to break free and escape out the window in his boxers onto a little eve. The lady boys are still waiting inside. Blooms realises that he has a taser that he bought from a 10 year old in the Philippines. So he goes back in the room, grabs it from his nightstand and tases them out of the room. They leave downstairs and demand money from Stilell, claiming that Blooms had sex with all of them. Eventually they leave, and a few minutes later Blooms comes downstairs and tases Stilwell in the outdoor lobby. Then they all head back upstairs and that's when I walk in. Later we got breakfast.

The point of the story, other than being hilarious, is that they do good enough work to be able to trick me, at least until I can get inside, and that I'm not comfortable having sex with a mtf transgender. To me, it's still a dude. And I'm not homophobic, but as soon as I realised, I lost all desire. I don't consider it a bad experience, it was what it was, which was funny as all hell.
_________________________
Join your local Wizards' Association today!

Top
#40013 - 07/06/10 01:15 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Clicks]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
LOL! Not to start sharing military stories about transgenders and GIs... but when I was TDY to Iraklion, Crete, my group went out on the town to down a few and relax after a hard day's work. I dunno what the hell we were drinking, but it tasted something like Turkish RAKI and had a kick like a mule. After a while, we were all dancing with the women and laughing. Before we left, one of the guys was dancing really slow and close with a GORGEOUS woman. The music was soft and the lights were low, and we all sat there at the bar, watching our friend dance with the woman. Soon, we saw his hand go between them at crotch level... he stopped dancing, stood there with a look on his face that was something like a surprised Curley from The Three Stooges. The woman leaned over and whispered something in his ear, then kissed him on the cheek, and they finished off the dance. Afterward, be joined us at the bar and slammed his drink.

We asked, "What the hell was that all about?"
He said, "I decided to feel her up and she had a bigger dick than mine."
We asked, "What did she whisper in your ear?"
He said, "'Don't embarrass me. Just finish the dance and I'll leave.' And I AM a gentleman, so I did."
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#40017 - 07/06/10 09:04 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Jake999]
Clicks Offline
member


Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 114
Loc: New Orleans
The way I described the transgender I was with later in the morning to my buds was as "the sexiest man I'd ever seen." I wasn't drunk at all, and everything looked and felt real on the surface. I'm sure a lot of people that this happens to think, "Why couldn't they tell me beforehand?" But then that would be to them like having never changed at all. Instead of now being a women, they would instead be this man in drag.
_________________________
Join your local Wizards' Association today!

Top
#41555 - 08/07/10 09:22 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Clicks]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
This what I woke up to this morning on FaceBook. A message from a Christian friend of 28 years standing:

Thanks for your greetings Felix. The reason I haven't written to you is very complex. We have been friends together for such a long time and we have both made changes and life changing decisions and respected one another's right to choice and change. But your decision not to be woman anymore has challenged me more than I can say. After years of standing up for our rights as women I cannot accept your decision not to embrace fully your female persona and because of this I don't feel I can be your friend any more because it would be dishonest of me. I do not have many male friends because I do not fundamentally like the male ego or presence. My husband is a very female person and my few male friends I keep at a friendly distance preferring to share my thoughts with women who are supporting women's issues. Of course I know you are not rejecting women's rights and you are still fighting for women's issues but that you are rejecting your personal womanhood means I do not want to talk about any issues because fundamentally you do not want to be part of womankind anymore. So I am sorry that our friendship is ending, it is because I cannot accept a male/transgender friend who is not proud of being a woman.

Well, there's agape in action.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#41556 - 08/07/10 09:56 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Felix, all I can say is that it's HER LOSS. You've got a place at my table any time. Obviously, your former "friend" has the insurmountable issues and a pretty profound lack of understanding.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#41558 - 08/07/10 11:13 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Jake999]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1126
Loc: Amarillo, TX
Your friend's comment reminds me of the essay Feminist on Testosterone. Some women get the idea in their heads that FTM's are traitors to their sex, as though their sex were supposed to be this guiding bastion of loyalty more important than one's own personal identity.

In Vamps and Tramps, commenting on gays protesting voluntary "correctional" therapy, Camille Paglia noted, "Is gay identity so fragile that it cannot bear the thought that some people may not wish to be gay?" I think the same applies to women who consider FTM's traitors to womanhood. Such a woman must be really insecure in her femininity if she needs all other women to celebrate their XX-ness to constantly affirm to her how beautiful a thing it is to be a woman.

As for the fact that new MTF's sometimes go over the top in expressing their femininity, just as newly "out" gay men sometimes become flamboyantly flaming, Dan Savage explained it best. It's a way of solidifying and confirming a new identity.

He noted that there are heterosexual men who are obnoxious in their expression of their sexual identity, too. Ever been to a frat party? It's a bunch of chest-thumping, ass-smacking, beer guzzling "my dick's bigger than your dick" nonsense. Same thing, different orientation. I think a person acting over the top with his/her sexual identity is preferable to condemning others who don't share it.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
#41569 - 08/07/10 05:05 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Wow, Felix. All I can say is "WHAT THE FUCK????"

What a shitty thing to wake up to, that your friend can't support you in such a fundamental way, and for such a petty reason. Does she not think lesser of men who undergo surgery to become a woman? That's under the 'traitor' category too, isn't it? Or perhaps because they're joining "her" side, it must be ok. Damn.

Pay her no mind, man. Like Jake said, it's HER loss!
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#41572 - 08/07/10 05:17 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Sounds like a feminist with a very large amount of sand in her vagina. Possibly a lesbian in denial too; as she takes the time to point out the effeminate nature of her husband and her dislike of "the male ego or presence".

I don't know about you but I wouldn't want to be friends with someone like that anyways. In your position I would say "good riddance".
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#41587 - 08/07/10 09:48 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
XiaGui - thank you so, so much for that link. I've saved the article to my documents as an invaluable resource. I've been meaning to drop a line to Raven Kaldera for some time now and this may be the ideal excuse! Honestly, this piece is just what people need thrusting under their noses when they start kicking off about FTMs being "traitors" (to what, exactly?) while simultaneously calling MTFs too bad to burn as penis-wielding oppressors. 6 - you're right, this person is a feminist (fine) and may be suppressing lesbian feelings (OK) but for her to use me as a Shadow-Self to punch is not fine or OK. I honestly thought she had more intelligence and integrity than that.
Back to Kaldera - he describes himself along the lines of a "shape-shifting, whiplashinglover of the hermaphrodeities avenger of the transgender dead" which is pretty damn original. His Baphomet Ritual I find especially engaging, for a multiplicity of personal reasons. ;\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#41608 - 08/08/10 05:20 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Oh but I never said it was okay for her to use you in that matter. In fact, I find it quite despicable. My point was simply to illustrate that a person with such a character is probably not the type of person you would want to see as being a friend.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#41616 - 08/08/10 07:53 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Oh, 6 I never said that you said that, LOL! Sorry if it looked like I implied it \:\)
Yes, I agree that maintaining a friendship under those circumstances may not be in my best interests (and they are, after all what counts) but this person needs educating. Do I want to be bothered being her unpaid tutor, though? Not if she doesn't want to listen.
On a somewhat lighter (?) note I plan - when sufficiently inspired ;\) - to offer a thread on gender transition and authenticity in the Subjective/Objective world matrix. It will more than likely include extremely subjective ramblings on the evolution of the Self and references to Levi's Baphomet and the Kabbalah. I hope that people reading this will give me some feedback as to whether this is something they might like to glance over or whether they would rather tear their eyes out with a wire coat hanger and rinse the sockets with bleach. \:\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#41738 - 08/10/10 08:21 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Nemesis]
Shadow Dragon Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 95
Sorry that you had to go through that Felix. Unfortunetly radical feminists (like other radical groups) don't tend to think things through. They prefer knee jerk reactions.

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
What a shitty thing to wake up to, that your friend can't support you in such a fundamental way, and for such a petty reason. Does she not think lesser of men who undergo surgery to become a woman? That's under the 'traitor' category too, isn't it? Or perhaps because they're joining "her" side, it must be ok. Damn.

Oh, a lot of the radical feminists also greatly dislike mtf transgendered people as well. For instance, just look at this blog entry:

 Quote:
Should we assume/believe that the male’s urge/behavior to rape women is going to disappear simply because his penis is removed? Incidentally, I don’t think as many men actually surgically transition as they would like people to believe. Therefore, the dick is still there in many cases, waiting, just waiting for a reason to penetrate something or somebody.

http://aroomofourown.wordpress.com/2009/06/22/itisalwayswhatwomencandoformen/
_________________________
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." - Socrates
Cogito ergo sum.

Top
#50352 - 03/02/11 06:17 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: birdstrike]
humanAreSlime Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 6
Loc: Ohio
The first paragraph, wow total truth. Fucking good shit to contemplate. I've been feeling like I'm a male trapped in a female's body for about five years now. But man, you open my eyes. The seccond paragraph: what the hell? I disagree.

Dog Fashion Disco kicks ass.
_________________________
Bred of blaspheme.

Top
#50357 - 03/02/11 07:03 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
rites Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/19/10
Posts: 23
My partner is a transsexual and we've been together for nearly twelve years now. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
Top
#50358 - 03/02/11 07:21 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: rites]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Nice to see some new posts in this thread! I'll look forward to further input, rites and humanAreSlime and offer some of my own when I have a little more time. \:\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#50543 - 03/07/11 03:54 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
I personally feel that going the way of drugs & scalpel is a tragic form of conformism.

Through the years I have known many a transvestite (sorry for the term, I'm helplessly old-school).
Dabbled a bit there myself as any true child of the 80s .

More or less reached a conclusion in my late 20s.
The rigidity of gender-affiliation in Judeo/Xian culture makes for bewilderment and loss of identity.
I have seen many examples (myself included) of individuals recognizing that they are not THE ONE, so they (somewhat desperately) tries to be THE OTHER.

This is IMO the result of misapplied logic.
I do not think that balance, and thus "happiness" are reached by slicing and/or fucking up your body & mind with chemicals.

It is a matter of coming to terms with your true identity, which of course is a individual mishmash of he/she.

Be what you will...
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

Top
#50548 - 03/07/11 07:15 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Woland]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
member


Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
I don't get the obsession with being a certain sex to begin with. If by some magic spell I woke up tomorrow a woman I can't imaging I'd have a crisis about it. Just because I'm a man doesn't mean I have the need to be a man. I'd be me, just as I am, perhaps emotionally influenced by different hormones.

But I don't think of who I am in terms of sex. Yes I like my genitals (in fact I'm rather attached to them) but I wouldn't be heartbroken over the trade. Assuming those hormones don't make me switch teams I'd just be the lesbian version of myself and comfortable with that.

If somebody zapped me with a gay-ray and I suddenly had a hardon for other men. That might confuse the hell out of me for a while but the idea only seems undesirable and unwanted to me because I'm straight.

If it's about being able to act and look like the opposite sex then I don't understand why you feel you have to "be" that sex to do so. It's only a transition as long as you allow societies norms to define what you think of as "being" a man or woman.

The question is what is it to "be" a man or woman. I strip it down to base facts: XX or XY. The belief that having one set of genitals or the other determines who you are is a mistake.

Top
#50550 - 03/07/11 08:40 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TV is God]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't know about others but I am without doubt a male. One can say gender does not define what they are but I'd disagree with that. No matter what those flashy female magazines like to write; we males think, feel and act differently. And that is, want it or not, because of our biology.

We are two distinct species for sure and as such, I do understand why some prefer to switch containers, should they, by who knows what reason, have the other biological setup in the wrong type of body.

D.

Top
#50561 - 03/07/11 02:32 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Damis Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 60
Loc: England
I'll throw my two pence in here seeing as my personal circumstances have led me to do research into this issue.

A lot of confusion begins with the term 'Transgender' in itself. The term itself is an umbrella term that encompasses a range of behaviours and conditions which 'deviate' from the considered gender norm. This includes Gender-Transients, people who feel their gender identity or physical sex is the opposite of the one they were assigned at birth and even people who consider themselves gender neutral e.g Christie Elan-Cane.

Both the medical and social sciences have been looking into the issues since the first half of the twentieth century but the real research into it really only started in the 1960s with notable people such as Dr Harry Benjamin. Professional attitudes have developed from viewing transgender as a deviation to be corrected and often associated to be a symptom of homosexuality to being seen as a mental condition in which the person feels a profound discomfort, dissatisfaction or misplacement with their current identity which is assigned to them at birth, in reference to their biological sex. Now you may say that the change in attitude is an outcome of steadily liberalised attitudes within society however the case is rather that all the attempts to 'cure' the issue through psychiatric therapy (including applied psychoanalysis and physical treatments such as shock therapy) proved ineffective, in fact it just inflicted damage and stress, this is where Dr.Benjamin made great strides in promoting help that seeks to bring the person inline with the gender identity they feel they are. The point is valid however that as far as I am aware, there is no commonly accepted theory as to the cause of trasgenderism itself, common theories range from the purely psychological to theories of hormonal affects upon the brain of the foetus and studies of differences and similarities of the brains of transgender identified people.

This leads me on to the concept of gender. Modern social sciences tend to view gender nowadays as something apart from the biological state of a body which is seen as the 'sex'. Gender is usually seen as a binary system of masculine and feminine and sex as male and female. Gender being the mainly socially constructed role and behaviour that makes a person a man or a woman, and sex as the physical configuration ultimately designed for the purpose of reproduction. I think that this is a vital distinction which lends credibility to the validity of a person's desire to change their gender identification. Although you could say it's a score one for the psychological side against the physical theory. Or you could even then try and portray it as an issue caused by social constraints around gender and sex relations.

As you can see the lack of information on the causes and the multitude of plausible theories in the face of the diversity of how transgenderism manifests, makes for a fucking minefield of confusion and there are a lot of factors which make finding one comprehensive theory very difficult. A good example is the disparate ratio of MTF (Male to female) to FTM (Female to Male) which is roughly around 3:1. Which I guess is important when it comes to the physical theories of transgenderism. Both sides however report similar feelings and experiences with the issue.

I think the concept of gender as a relative none sex locked sense of identity actually raises an important question. Which is:

If gender is as mentioned above, then it would stand to reason that by simply aligning ones gender to the preferred mode, including style of dress, behaviour and activities, one could remedy the issue, why then is surgery that alters biological characteristics felt needed by many transgender identified people? Does this not question the notion of gender as a relative and instead support the notion of being 'born in the wrong body'?

Well many transgender people see surgery such as breast implants, vaginoplasty, phalloplasty, mastectomy, orchiectomy as a means of bringing themselves inline with their gender identification. You could say that whilst gender isn't essentially locked to biology, it's generally associated with it and for social conformist reasons or personal preference, many undertake these procedures. However then there are some who insist on the full monty of surgical intervention in order to realise themselves in their gender. Without trying to shy away from the question in fear of finding out something I hope not to see, I'll admit that there isn't enough information that I am aware of in order to reconcile the difference in extent to which different people take surgical intervention to redress their discomfort. (In the interest of not appearing as if I'm speaking for anyone who is transgender identified on here, I'd like to add that some object and revile the view of a gender issue as a 'problem' to be 'corrected' and see it as a medicalisation and demonising). Although the sheer difference in knowledge and opinions of the transgender people themselves may play a part in the lack of a total one size fits all regimen of steps to alleviate the negative effects that transgederism has on the people who experience it. Some may take a more pragmatic stance as I've shown above with gender, whilst some may agree with the essentialist opinion of gender bar the opinion of 'wrong body' assignment as false.

Now previously I've covered the concept of gender in relation to the 'treatment' of transgenderism and I briefly brushed on the historical attitudes towards it. So I think it's fitting to provide some social context as well. Whilst there was media coverage of early transgneder people changing their gender (and sex if you equate surgery with the changing of it) such as Christine Jorgensen. They were usually explained in the context of different aspects of the time, Christine herself was said to have been allowed surgical intervention (which if memory serves correctly consisted of her travelling to Denmark for castration) on the grounds of 'him' being a homosexual. The 60's saw the beginnings of a new attitude in treatment like I mentioned above, however it was the 1970s and 1980s which saw transgenderism in it's early form (I'll come back to this) become known as an issue that affected people.
The theme of cross dressing and transvestism during these two decades was unfairly but understandably in my opinion associated with the issue of transgender particularly within the realm of sociological research. The relevance of this upon transgender issues however is that many who had these feelings facing the lack of information on gender issues, either turned to cross dressing as an attempt to alleviate the distress they felt or mistakenly thought themselves to be simply cross dressers. Furthermore cross dressers, transvestites and transgender people often frequented the same social clubs and private societies (Beaumont Society etc). Although in fairness, either way the wearing of clothes associated with the 'opposite gender' is a means of realising and identifying with the target gender anyway, and the cross-dressing aspect can therefore more correctly be associated socially with transgenderism during that time period by on one hand the lack of knowledge or availability of methods for which the trans people could realise how they felt about their identities. And on the other hand, the sheer visual similarities that cross-dressers and transgender people shared in relation to gender. (Wearing clothes associated with the other gender, presenting in a feminine/masculine manner). This blurred distinction can be seen in the pre 21st century works of Richard Ekins.

Coming back to my earlier remark of transgenderism in it's 'early form'. During the late 90s and the 2000s there was a marked change in how transgender was viewed. The awareness of the subtle distinctions of all the categories of people under the term 'transgender' came around, as well as the term itself for that matter. This is known as the 'Paradigm shift'. My guess is that it was a result of the steadily increasing resources of information on the subject together with the changes in the medical profession towards treating trasgenderism. The internet has been a powerful tool in developing the awareness even more through communication and the access to information that helps people to realise how they feel. The transgender archive witnessed a huge explosion of resources during the 90s and 2000s from around 400 or so publications to around 5,000 or more. It seems therefore that information and common communication of people with similar feelings led to the clarification of the social dimension to the issue.

I'd have liked to continue with an explanation of the common medical steps taken when facing the issue of transgenderism and the effects it can have on the lives of people. However this post is racking up length fast and I think the information I've provided is constructive enough for my contribution to the discussion. Hopefully i've been objective in describing the different sides to the matter and the common beliefs on the subject.

Here are some directions for those who would like to look closer into it:

http://www.amazon.com/Transgender-Phenom...99525924&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Male-Femaling-grou...99525998&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Blending-Genders-A...99526028&sr=1-5

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/pages/introduction.aspx

Stupid pricing on the books; I expect they can be found cheaper elsewhere.
_________________________
Leben ist krieg.

Top
#50566 - 03/07/11 03:51 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TV is God]
Shadow Dragon Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 95
 Originally Posted By: TV is God
I don't get the obsession with being a certain sex to begin with. If by some magic spell I woke up tomorrow a woman I can't imaging I'd have a crisis about it. Just because I'm a man doesn't mean I have the need to be a man. I'd be me, just as I am, perhaps emotionally influenced by different hormones.

But I don't think of who I am in terms of sex. Yes I like my genitals (in fact I'm rather attached to them) but I wouldn't be heartbroken over the trade. Assuming those hormones don't make me switch teams I'd just be the lesbian version of myself and comfortable with that.

It's easy to say this, without actually having experienced it. Even if you take out the social aspect (such as how others perceive you, which job opportunities are open to you, etc) there are many things in your life that are dictated by your sex (how your body reacts to stimuli, the ways that hormones affect your behavior, the way your body moves, your ability to add muscle mass, your center of gravity, the sensitivity of your skin, the way your hair grows, your scent, your voice, et cetera ad infinitum). Believe it or not, your sex plays a huge role in you life. Most humans would fine being in the body of the opposite sex to be very uncomfortable and would actively try to find a way to change back.

Transsexuals want all (or at least the vast majority) of the things that come with being the opposite sex. It it far more than just changing your genitals.

If somebody zapped me with a gay-ray and I suddenly had a hardon for other men. That might confuse the hell out of me for a while but the idea only seems undesirable and unwanted to me because I'm straight.

 Originally Posted By: TV is God
If it's about being able to act and look like the opposite sex then I don't understand why you feel you have to "be" that sex to do so. It's only a transition as long as you allow societies norms to define what you think of as "being" a man or woman.

If one acts like and looks like a woman pretty much all the time, then one is a woman, or vice versa. It's simply about being who you believe yourself to be.

As for the usage of the word transition, it's because it does greatly change your life over time, in terms of your physical being and your social status. It's a transition in the same way that puberty is a transition.

 Originally Posted By: TV is God
The question is what is it to "be" a man or woman. I strip it down to base facts: XX or XY. The belief that having one set of genitals or the other determines who you are is a mistake.

The problem with this belief is that there are XY women. As in, they were declared female at birth, they have periods and can give birth. And, while it may be a bit rarer, there are also XX males, who are males in every sense of the word except for their chromosomes. Generally, what hormones you're exposed to in the womb plays a larger role in determining physical sex, than the chromosomes do.
_________________________
"There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance." - Socrates
Cogito ergo sum.

Top
#50570 - 03/07/11 06:33 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Woland]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1126
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Woland
I personally feel that going the way of drugs & scalpel is a tragic form of conformism...
I have seen many examples (myself included) of individuals recognizing that they are not THE ONE, so they (somewhat desperately) tries to be THE OTHER.

This is IMO the result of misapplied logic.

It's probably true that, for some, it's a matter of identity crisis and a need to fit into a distinct category. There are androgyny/gender-queer movements that are promoting comfort with something in between or just something different.

But I also know those who have described their desire to change as a desire specifically for physiological differences and not necessarily a change in identity, role, or social perception.

I've posted Raven Kaldera's link before, but this quote I think is particularly relevant:
 Originally Posted By: Raven Kaldera
Top Nine Things I Hated About Being A Woman:

1. Menstruation. Having to shed blood and have nasty cramps for 25% of my adult life - one week out of four. No way.

2. PMS. Yes, it's real, I had it, and I hated it.

3. Having a cycle - up, down, up, down. I like being steady-state, or as much as my hormone delivery system will let me. No more lunar cycles; I Sing The Body Solar-Electric.

4. Having to worry about getting pregnant when I slept with most penis-people. I did go through pregnancy once, and it was awful. I'm grateful for my daughter, but I'd far rather that someone else could have done that job for me.

5. Having breasts. Now, breasts are great things - again - on other people. Mine just got in the way, bounced when I tried to run, made my clothes fit poorly, and forced me to wear a bra or suffer pain. The only time I was grateful for them was the fourteen months I breast-fed my daughter. After that, I became completely sterile and they were useless. They gave me far less sexual satisfaction than they did trouble, so I got rid of them...because I could.

6. Being short. Well, this one I just have to live with.

7. Not being able to put on enough muscle. Before testosterone, no matter how hard I worked, I could only bind so much muscle to my body. I'm a farmer, and I like having the strength to do the heavy work around my farm.

8. Not having enough body hair. This sounds strange, but I really like having facial and body hair. It's soft and fuzzy and neat to touch. I was always hairy for a woman, and at first I was ashamed of that and plucked out my beard, shaved my body. Then my wife convinced me to just let it grow, and I did. And I wanted more of it. After T, it thickened even more, grew in all over my body like a halo of blond fur, an animal's pelt. I know that right now beards and fur aren't fashionable; that even straight men are starting to shave their chests, but it's what I want on my body.

9. Not having a penis. Why did I want a dick? Why, to have sex with, of course. Sure, you can strap on, but it's not the same as having something with nerve endings that you can penetrate your lovers with. Of course, phalloplasty being the not-very-satisfying experiment that it is, I have to deal with what I have.....which is more dicklike than what I started with, at least.

It seems to me that hormones are a reasonable means to the desired end, in this case.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
#50598 - 03/08/11 04:41 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Diavolo]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Quote:
No matter what those flashy female magazines like to write; we males think, feel and act differently. And that is, want it or not, because of our biology.

Interestingly you say so. I read an article about the psychological impacts of passage rites. The article compared culture with "strong" rites of passage (from boy to man) with cultures without (or weak) rituals for a boy to become a man. One of their conclusions was that the culture where the boy didn't had a rite of passage could better anticipate on the feelings and ideas of a women. This was achieved by having the boys in isolation and have to rely on their own intellect, endurance and/or other skills to make "the transition". The psychological impact of such rites (both by belief and social view) triggered a stronger difference in thinking between man/woman.

(Can't seem to recover the article, my apologies).

Further reading:
http://www.johnvdavis.com/wild/wrop.htm
http://artofmanliness.com/2010/02/21/male-rites-of-passage-from-around-the-world/
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#50605 - 03/08/11 06:13 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I'm familiar with that study, it was linked in the article I posted while replying on rites of passage. ;\)

There are quite some differences, on average, between females and males; not implying the physical but at the level of their brains and how they function. Of course, when looking at individual aspects or specific behavior or reactions, how we respond or interpret is an individual issue and certain males might be more feminine in that while certain females might be more masculine.

Culture has impact too but the question is if it is as much cultural impact as it had been some sort from of selective breeding towards a certain preference. There is a new hotbox awaiting science which might explore if certain traits, like a disposition to violence as an example, has become a cultural common because it was a preferred requisite beneficial to the "tribe". There are hints suggesting into that direction but after the race/IQ of the past, very few feel comfortably opening Pandora's box again.

As such, in the non-rites tribe, the empathy might not as much be triggered by having no rites of passage as by reproducing with males that were more empathic than others.

D.

Top
#50606 - 03/08/11 06:30 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Diavolo]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1126
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
As such, in the non-rites tribe, the empathy might not as much be triggered by having no rites of passage as by reproducing with males that were more empathic than others.


I have to wonder if empathy reflects the sensitivity of someone who has suffered less. Wisenberg's essay "Holocaust Girls/Lemon" goes into this a little bit; she describes privileged, American-born girls who love to read about suffering (such as the Holocaust) because they have never suffered. It's usually those who live comfortably who have bleeding hearts; those who have suffered themselves are more likely to have an attitude of "psssh, you think that's bad?"

I think it makes sense, from an evolutionary standpoint, that those who are well off can afford to feel sorry for others, but those who have been through tough times are less likely to pity.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
#50607 - 03/08/11 06:38 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: XiaoGui17]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
What affects empathy most seems to be the level of testosterone one has, which explains why most males are so great at it. There seems to be a correlation in the size difference between your ring and index finger, the longer your ring-finger compared to the index, the more testosterone you have, or were exposed to while being in the womb.

Of course empathy is culturally stimulated too or even socially required and as such, often mimicked while not actually being there. It is a language one can learn even when it is not their natural one. In many groups it is considered bon ton to suffer along. Those that don't are watched with suspicion.

D.

Top
#50668 - 03/08/11 11:40 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Diavolo]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
There seems to be a correlation in the size difference between your ring and index finger, the longer your ring-finger compared to the index, the more testosterone you have, or were exposed to while being in the womb.

Makes perfect sense, just as hair growing in the palms of your hands indicates ...
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#50677 - 03/09/11 03:46 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Quote:
In the Sex ID test we asked people about their index and ring finger measurements. Some scientists believe that the ratio of index finger length to ring finger length indicates how much testosterone we were exposed to in our mother's womb.

Higher testosterone exposure is thought to lead to a longer ring finger. This is determined as early as 14 weeks into a pregnancy.

On average, women's index and ring fingers are almost equal in length because they are exposed to less testosterone. In men, the ring finger tends to be longer because they have higher testosterone levels. In general, women exposed to more testosterone have more 'masculine hands' – ie longer ring fingers.

Sex ID


The "secrets of the sexes" series is quite interesting to watch; it's out there someone on google video.

Oh, and considering your unbelief, may I assume you got a really short ring finger? ;\)

D.

Top
#50682 - 03/09/11 06:01 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Damis]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Damis
As you can see the lack of information on the causes and the multitude of plausible theories in the face of the diversity of how transgenderism manifests, makes for a fucking minefield of confusion and there are a lot of factors which make finding one comprehensive theory very difficult. A good example is the disparate ratio of MTF (Male to female) to FTM (Female to Male) which is roughly around 3:1. Which I guess is important when it comes to the physical theories of transgenderism. Both sides however report similar feelings and experiences with the issue.


 Originally Posted By: Damis
Well many transgender people see surgery such as breast implants, vaginoplasty, phalloplasty, mastectomy, orchiectomy as a means of bringing themselves inline with their gender identification. You could say that whilst gender isn't essentially locked to biology, it's generally associated with it and for social conformist reasons or personal preference, many undertake these procedures. However then there are some who insist on the full monty of surgical intervention in order to realise themselves in their gender. Without trying to shy away from the question in fear of finding out something I hope not to see, I'll admit that there isn't enough information that I am aware of in order to reconcile the difference in extent to which different people take surgical intervention to redress their discomfort. (In the interest of not appearing as if I'm speaking for anyone who is transgender identified on here, I'd like to add that some object and revile the view of a gender issue as a 'problem' to be 'corrected' and see it as a medicalisation and demonising). Although the sheer difference in knowledge and opinions of the transgender people themselves may play a part in the lack of a total one size fits all regimen of steps to alleviate the negative effects that transgederism has on the people who experience it. Some may take a more pragmatic stance as I've shown above with gender, whilst some may agree with the essentialist opinion of gender bar the opinion of 'wrong body' assignment as false.



Dear Damis.
Thank you for a very enlightening and interesting post.

It's as always a pleasure to see the scientific material "exposed" by a questioning mind.
The one ting we can be certain of is; the scientific community does not know dick shit (pussy shit?) about this subject either...

The scientific approach when it comes to matters of the mind is pure assumption.
Symptoms are displayed? Bring forth drugs & dagger!
Lobotomy gets them home!

Now; if anyone wants to pay for self-mutilation; be my guest.
(Should I as a tax-payer front cash for it? I think not...)

Instead of admitting to the simple approach;

Can we do it?
Yes we can!
(Therefore we just do it...),

both subject and shaman (psychiatric science) insists that it be a matter of correcting nature.
Now; if this were to be a physical condition; where might evolutionary theory enter the equation?

When proving a point, going to extremes will do nicely...
Around 20 years ago, I saw a picture of my first "smoothie".
(Ehhh... Not the soft-drink, the soft-drink I truly detest.)

No; male & female individuals who had their outer (maybe inner as well, I do not know) genitals and gender-specific extremes surgically removed, in order to reach gender/sex neutrality.
That's bodymods for yah, indeed; but maybe not a primary sign of a sound mind and sociological balance?

One other extreme would be Body integrity identity disorder. (Pardon the wiki...)

We, as a society, are driven towards conforming to a socially acceptable identities.
And the individual reaction to this state of affairs, the feelings of estrangement and displacement, can be hurtful and morbid indeed.

It's not my fault!
It's my condition!

We seek diagnosis, always...
We seek the pill who can fix us, always...

White mans burden.
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

Top
#50703 - 03/09/11 01:54 PM I Show You Mine ... [Re: Diavolo]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Oh, and considering your unbelief, may I assume you got a really short ring finger? ;\)

I have a funny feeling that we may be seeing the beginning of the 21st century version of the "mine is bigger than yours" comparison, although I expect this comparison is less likely to be censored by Middle America.

Anyway:



[I had to scan the back, because for some mysterious reason there's so much hair on the front that it obscures my fingertips.]

O.K, Diavolo, let's see yours.

From a purely-scientific standpoint, I think that calloused knuckles (from constant dragging along the floor) would be a more accurate indicator of excess T than one's ring finger ...
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#50707 - 03/09/11 02:34 PM Re: I Show You Mine ... [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
lol, close but not enough. I have no scanner to prove the ape is still roaming inside me, but even without that evidence, I will admit my defeat oh Sensei.

At first the idea appeared ridiculous, like phrenology and especially when knowing the big nose or big feet jokes but when I started to explore the "science of the finger"; digit ratio, there seems to be more behind it.

Of course it doesn't imply that within a couple of decades it's another of those scientific strolls in quite the wrong direction.

D.

Top
#50715 - 03/09/11 03:11 PM Re: I Show You Mine ... [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Well... all I can say is that I got a long ring finger, size 10 shoes and hair for days. And I am like milk... I come in QUARTS!!!

Yep. I'm a MANLY MAN....

"I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok..."
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#50716 - 03/09/11 03:17 PM Re: I Show You Mine ... [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The most amusing thing about men is, that no matter what, they're always comparing "dicks" in any form possible.

I once wrote that when someone would stick a pencil up his ass, within a short amount of time another will grab a beer bottle.

We are truly a different species.

D.

Top
#50721 - 03/09/11 04:26 PM Re: I Show You Mine ... [Re: Jake999]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Well... all I can say is that I got a long ring finger, size 10 shoes and hair for days. And I am like milk... I come in QUARTS!!!

Yep. I'm a MANLY MAN....

"I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok..."


According to Manswers, that's the least excreted male body fluid, where snot is the most (and the Medical College of Wisconsin)! The ONLY time I watched Manswers with the males in this household and that WAS the one that was on!

"According to the journal of fertility and sterility, a guy busts off 1/10 of an ounce of gunk from his junk per funk session."

Right around 5:42 in the show....
http://www.livedash.com/transcript/manswers/7038/SPIKEP/Monday_February_7_2011/558238/

Sorry Jake..... \:\/
_________________________
If only just for today.....

Top
#50722 - 03/09/11 04:49 PM Re: I Show You Mine ... [Re: Nyte]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I'll post more profound stuff on here when I've time. ;\)

Meanwhile . . . my index and ring fingers are almost the same length but the ring finger is a fraction shorter, like most natal females but not as pronounced. I like to think of my hands as hermaphrodite (almost). \:\)
Just for the hell of it a few years ago, those of us running a Transgender Arts Festival malarky over here decided to ask people to make a print of their hand on the way in and note a) what sex they were assigned at birth and b) if they identify any differently now. EVERY natal male, even the ones who now lived as female had a "male" hand BUT so did those born female and now living as male, even if they had had no testosterone treatment! At least 30 female-to-male transssexual folk turned up and EVERY ONE had a a long ring finger! I must be the exception that proves the rule - whatever that means. \:D
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#50728 - 03/09/11 07:23 PM Re: I Show You Mine ... [Re: felixgarnet]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
Following this logic apparently my right hand got more ~T~ than my left. What was this thread about again? Oh yes transgendered people.

Not really on topic but not far off I had to pick up my sister and her wife due to car trouble they get in the car and start making fun of the transgendered guy in the store. I listened for a few minutes before pointing out to them that they are not very different living the alternative lifestyle they do.

Ok more than one line.

~T~ (for testosterone) lol
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#50729 - 03/09/11 07:42 PM Re: I Show You Mine ... [Re: Diavolo]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I once wrote that when someone would stick a pencil up his ass, within a short amount of time another will grab a beer bottle.

Truer words were never spoken ...

 Quote:
"DAVIS PARTY PERFORMER SAYS HE'S SATANIC PRIEST"
- by Don Lattin, Chronicle Religion Writer
San Francisco Chronicle
May 8, 1997

San Francisco's civic sideshow got even stranger yesterday when the performance artist whose S&M act headlined a political birthday bash revealed himself as a Satanic priest.

Rev. Steven Johnson Leyba, an ordained priest in the San Francisco-based Church of Satan, had a satanic Pentagram carved on his back as part of the entertainment at political consultant Jack Davis' 50th birthday party Saturday night.

Davis' evening of debauchery was attended by many of the city's leading politicos and the top brass for the 49ers - the same folks who've hired Davis to convince San Francisco voters that the city needs a new football stadium.

Leyba, who leads a performance troupe called the United Satanic Apache Front, is upset that amid all the uproar over last week's party no one has explained why he goes onstage to be sodomized with a Jack Daniels bottle by a woman who dresses up like Pocahontas.

"The act is a literal metaphor for how alcohol was forced upon my people," said Leyba, who is one-quarter Mescalero Apache.

Leyba sees himself in the Native American tradition of the trickster - a clown of contrariness who seeks to "sabotage complacency".

Yesterday the trick was on Davis and local politicians trying to convince city voters to approve a June 3 bond measure to build a new 49er stadium and shopping mall. "No new stadium," said Leyba, explaining that he's against the measure because he used to get beat up by football players at his high school in Camden, Arkansas.

Leyba said he was ordained two years ago by the notorious Anton LaVey, who founded the Church of Satan in San Francisco in 1966.

Assisting Leyba in Saturday night's act - playing the part of Pocahontas - was Danielle Willis, a San Francisco performance artist, poet, and author.

Leyba calls his self-styled ritual the "Apache Whiskey Rite". It includes having a satanic Pentagram carved in his back, and being urinated on by other members of his troupe.

Yesterday, as several amazed customers looked on, Leyba sat in a San Francisco coffee house and proudly displayed his satanic scars to a Chronicle reporter and photographer.

"We were the main part of the show," Leyba said, referring to the birthday party. "Everyone said the strippers got naked, but they didn't. They were just go-go dancing. The only other person beside me who was naked was someone called 'The Diesel Dyke'."

Asked who hired him to perform at Davis' party, Leyba replied, "I'm not at liberty to discuss that. My lawyer told me not to discuss that."

LaVey, the Church of Satan leader, could not be reached for comment yesterday. And representatives of the Mescalero Apache tribe in New Mexico said they never heard of Leyba or the "Apache Whiskey Rite".
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#50735 - 03/09/11 09:11 PM Re: I Show You Mine ... [Re: ta2zz]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1126
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
Following this logic apparently my right hand got more ~T~ than my left.


Same here, only in reverse. On my left hand my ring finger is longer than my index finger, but on my right hand my index finger is longer than my ring finger.



This could be the new salad dressing test...
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
#50739 - 03/09/11 10:27 PM Re: I Show You Mine ... [Re: XiaoGui17]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
LOL! OK... I STILL like Bleu Cheese on occasion. But then I was always persnickity that way. \:\)
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#57885 - 08/01/11 06:45 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Stag]
Ophelia Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 9
Loc: Portland, ME
Gender is a social construction based on our sexual organs. When we're born we're placed in either category, boy/man or girl/woman. We humans create roles to play in social relationships. Gender is a loaded word. It can mean many things to many people. Gender to me is how you act, dress, eat, how you react to certain stimuli, etc. You may be genderqueer, someone who is neither feminine or masculine but both.
As for feminism, it is neither about hating men nor women trying to act like men. It is a movement aimed at ending sexism either towards women or men be them trans, bi, Muslim, queer, etc. The movement is called feminism because of the history behind the term. Originally feminism can from France (with Christine de Pizan: querellas des femmes: the woman question).
_________________________
Yahweh is the only god I would have a party with.

Top
#59475 - 09/25/11 04:17 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Ashley Corinne Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Utah
As a woman trapped in a man's body, I have a lot to say on this topic. But I won't say too much.

I'm a queer sort of individual (no pun intended) because I'm physically male, psychologically female, but I'm a tomboy who likes girls. So I'm basically a straight man. Weird. Even on the rare occasion that I've told people about my gender identity they usually don't believe me. If God does exist, I guess he has a sense of humor.

But I'm making light of a serious topic. Transgendered people like me have an abnormally high suicide rate, and we are also targeted for "hillbilly justice" - that is, violence (beatings, rape, murder, etc.)

Transgendered people represent a small fraction of humanity, and thus we are a greatly under-represented community. It's very sad and I don't want to get too depressed about it.
_________________________
~Ashley

Top
#59479 - 09/25/11 10:29 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Ashley Corinne]
RAIDER Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
I've heard reports of men in Jamaica performing 'corrective rape' on lesbian woman in their communities.......once the women 'come out of the closet' they aren't safe.
This shit....the 'hillbilly justice' fucking burns me up.
There were times in human history when homosexuals and transgendered folks were not only accepted, but even thought of as special, having both masculine and feminine qualities....of course this predates the major religions.
_________________________
DARK WOLF

Top
#59515 - 09/26/11 03:26 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Ashley Corinne]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
I'm a queer sort of individual (no pun intended) because I'm physically male, psychologically female, but I'm a tomboy who likes girls. So I'm basically a straight man. Weird.


Weird indeed. Having never been a female, how can you say you are psychologically female? Especially since you admit to liking girls and saying you are "basically a straight man."
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#59529 - 09/26/11 11:35 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
This is actually rather common; most trans guys I've met are "straight".

I think it's more of a body image thing. Trans men don't feel comfortable in male bodies; they feel like when they look in the mirror they should see a woman. If getting a gender change makes them feel better; more power to them. To me, it's no stranger than getting a tattoo, piercing, or other sort of body mod.

That's just my opinion as an outsider.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#59530 - 09/27/11 12:08 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: The Zebu]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Oh, don't get me wrong, I have no problem with transgender people, the way this was explained just seemed odd to me is all.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#59562 - 09/27/11 06:26 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
RAIDER Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
As an outsider also............my take is that gender identification and sexual orientation are two entirely different matters. I'm male and identify as male......being male feels natural to me. I am attracted to men primarily....I identify as gay ( societies label, but anyone who speaks English gets it).
Gender and orientation aren't always as 'black and white' as society would like to pretend.
The Kinsey Report demonstrates this very well, at least for orientation.
_________________________
DARK WOLF

Top
#59579 - 09/27/11 09:45 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: RAIDER]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
As an insider ;\) I'll get back to you on this in more detail later.
Raider - you're right. 6Satan - you make very valid points and they are ones that many transpeople tie ourselves into knots over, too!
Ashley - I know what you mean by the "straight man" thing! Many people assume I'm lesbian or from a lesbian background but I'm not. The majority of my partners have been male; my fiancee is a transwoman and father of two.
Zebu - by the way, transmen are people like me (female to male), whereas male to female people are transwomen. \:\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#59592 - 09/28/11 11:52 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
felix, I would be most interrested in reading what you have to say on the subject.

As for me, I am a straight male, I live with my girlfriend of 6 years, and enjoy many aspects of sex that might even be labeled as gay... foot fetish, bondage, especially anal play, etc. But I find these things fascinating.

I do work with a guy who is a pre-op and other than the fact that he talks to fucking much, he's awesome. Fun to be around, very intelligent, and charismatic. Everyone we work with thinks he is gay, but it's not the case. He doesn't get into details with most people at work because it's none of their business. But he is a woman inside and it shows. I think he even hates his genitalia and is looking forward to having it removed.

I want to just better understand this topic... it's my reason for the reply.
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

Top
#59912 - 10/11/11 03:13 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Impure Ayucaba Offline
lurker


Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 4
Loc: Florida
Although, I haven't fully spent the time to read all the replies towards your post, recently I wrote a short research psychology essay on transgenderism and sexually neutral environments for those "certain" transgendered children and Id to share a little bit of what I researched.

First and foremost rarely is there a female "transgendered" child even from the toddler stages, "true" transgenderism is mainly seen in young male children. And for the most part they rarely have problems with their genetalia, unless symbiotic discourse is to blame-usually with the mother and i.e. object associations within detrimental environments.

From the research I have gathered this in my opinion contingent upon working experts data this is the only true "form" of transgenderism, everything else is catagorized as homosexual, bisexual and so on. Concerning "transsexuals" there are the "no-hos" trans and the "post-op" transexuals i.e no-hos means no hormones.

Perhaphs it is simple to denote what an homosexual is due to gender variance opposed to a child that already has naturally derived at "their" intended sexual orientation.

If you had a child, transgendered or not how would you raise this children charged to gender roles through traditional societal inference with an appeal for a possible scope on gender neutrality?
_________________________
The dark path does not claim to be for all. -Thomas Karlsson

Top
#59915 - 10/11/11 04:41 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Impure Ayucaba]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
 Originally Posted By: Impure Ayucaba
Although, I haven't fully spent the time to read all the replies towards your post, recently I wrote a short research psychology essay on transgenderism and sexually neutral environments for those "certain" transgendered children and Id to share a little bit of what I researched.

First and foremost rarely is there a female "transgendered" child even from the toddler stages, "true" transgenderism is mainly seen in young male children. And for the most part they rarely have problems with their genetalia, unless symbiotic discourse is to blame-usually with the mother and i.e. object associations within detrimental environments.

From the research I have gathered this in my opinion contingent upon working experts data this is the only true "form" of transgenderism, everything else is catagorized as homosexual, bisexual and so on. Concerning "transsexuals" there are the "no-hos" trans and the "post-op" transexuals i.e no-hos means no hormones.

Perhaphs it is simple to denote what an homosexual is due to gender variance opposed to a child that already has naturally derived at "their" intended sexual orientation.

If you had a child, transgendered or not how would you raise this children charged to gender roles through traditional societal inference with an appeal for a possible scope on gender neutrality?


As someone who has lived with a transgender identity (born female) for almost 60 years and has an MA in Gender, Sexuality and Culture I feel it incumbent upon me to point out why I find your post extremely problematic.

You seem to confuse sexuality (sexual orientation - hetero, gay, etc) with gender identity. The two are completely separate; someone who has transitioned their gender (made certain changes to live as the sex they feel themselves to be) may be attracted to members of that same sex, or the "opposite", or both or nobody. Transgender people are not extreme examples of gay people exhibiting cross-gender behaviour (for example, a cross-dressing, feminine gay man).

It is simply not true that "true transgender" folk (where on earth did you get that term?) are usually male children. Calculating the number of people who personally identify as a gender other than the one they are assigned at birth is an impossible task because such a personal situation may remain hidden from data-gatherers and is also culturally bound. It is neither the concern nor the business of researchers to say who is "truly" transgender, any more than it is mine to decide whose experience is authentic. Unlike the self-styled "experts" you have read (and I very much assume one of them to be Michael Bailey) we respect the identity and struggle of others and don't attempt to classify them with names which they may feel inappropriate.

Neither is it accurate to say they "rarely have problems with their genitalia"; many do have a loathing of them while others make the best of what they were born with so long as they can endure this.

"No-ho" means nothing out of context. People may seek hormonal therapy and be denied it due to ignorant doctors, poverty, insurance which does not cover it or because of pre-exiating medical conditions.

"Post op" means little, too. To which "ops", exactly is this supposed to refer? Many laypeople will assume it to mean that which goes on below the waist. In fact, many transmen do not have any modification made of their genitals as it is a very dangerous, long-winded and expensive process which can take up to two years.

As to your reference to child-rearing, this again conflates gender and sexuality.

"Perhaphs it is simple to denote what an homosexual is due to gender variance opposed to a child that already has naturally derived at "their" intended sexual orientation."

This makes no sense, even grammatically.

I don't have children but my partner, a transgender woman, does. She raises them to be the best they can be and if they declare themselves to be other then their current birth certificates say then I am sure she and their mother will offer support as required and not assume the end of the world is nigh.

I'd advise you to conduct any further research by reading the work of scholars who actually know what they are talking about. Suggested authers: Kate Bornstein, Leslie Feinberg, Stephen Whittle, Jamieson Green, Julia Serano.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#59939 - 10/11/11 02:46 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
Impure Ayucaba Offline
lurker


Registered: 10/11/11
Posts: 4
Loc: Florida
Well, as it was a paper on gender neutral environments which i didn't fully elaborate on was my fault and for your remainder of the reply you sent me all I can say is that the "Scientific Method" is still steadfast in all avenues of the sciences. I'm sure people will identify with all sorts of assertions even with expertise but when it comes down to it no one is right.
_________________________
The dark path does not claim to be for all. -Thomas Karlsson

Top
#59960 - 10/11/11 04:54 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Impure Ayucaba]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
A research paper on gender neutral environments would have to have access to these for its samples and, so far as I know, attempts at creating them are very few and far between. What exactly was the purpose behind the paper? If it was to study the gender identity of children raised in an environment which aimed for gender neutrality then fair enough. However, no humane environment could possibly exclude all modern media - unless that was also part of the plan - so there would be "gendered" material accessible to children, such as television and newspapers which would inevitably impact on their perception of themselves.

The two families I know of personally where the children are raised to decide for themselves who and what they are and how best to express it have found that the latter are largely indifferent to the boy/girl toy market but understand that most people work within a binary sex model.

You are correct to say no one is right when it comes to science and its attempts to unravel human identity. Transgender and intersex people have a very negative experience with Science for the most part as it has been used to put them in mental institutions, sterilize them and operate on their genitalia a few hours after birth without informed consent.

I would like researchers to re-focus their attention away from trans people's personal lives and turn their attention to just why so many people feel the need to affirm as men or women and protect this to the point of violence. There is not, and never has been, any scientifically verifiable proof that sex as a category actually exists, including that of chromosomology. Genitals, XX and XY, pre-natal development, brain sampling - none of this offers the answer to what sex or gender identity is. I must reiterate for any scientists who may be reading, "Nothing about us without us", please. We have worked at this a lot longer and harder than anyone else.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#60163 - 10/17/11 11:01 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
I'm hardly one to argue that gender doesn't exist, but an open-minded person should never expect an individual to conform to whatever arbitrary cultural standards mandate for gender "identity". In my opinion it's on the same level as other labels such as "race"- to conform means little more than to adhere to stereotypes. Anyone with the slightest shred of individuality realizes that such phenomena are merely constructs.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#60164 - 10/17/11 11:18 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: The Zebu]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Yes, exactly.
There's often confusion when someone uses the term "transgender" because it is incorrectly assumed to mean an ultra-masculine woman or an ultra-feminine man (in the conservative senses of those descriptors). However, it is not about gendered performance but is, in the UK, usually used as an alternative word for transsexual, because the latter suggests a sexual orientation or practice rather than a core identity with another sex.

Many transsexual/transgender people are not conservative in their gendered behaviour or heterosexual in preference. I'm not "masculine" in the "typical" (?) sense and my partner is a male to female transsexual who is pretty butch and tough and rips motorbikes to bits as a hobby. She is also father to two children (not mine) but cannot live happily as a man; neither do I feel complete as a woman. \:\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#64887 - 02/25/12 03:18 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
namingthestars Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/21/12
Posts: 14
Several of my friends (including one who I respect more than almost anyone else) are FtM or MtF transsexuals, and I'm completely supportive of them, as well as very protective (people better not insult them when I'm around). I'm very sympathetic towards how hard it is to be transgender, so I admire their strength to go through that. I also have two friends who claim to be genderless, and while I'm kind of skeptical, I still respect their feelings on that.

As for the third group, I could almost fit into that, though I don't consider myself transgender. There have been plenty of times when I wished to be the opposite sex, but in general, I just consider myself a girl with an extremely masculine spirit. I usually prefer to be a girl and I don't dress butch or anything like that, though it would be fun to try being a guy if there was a way to instantly switch back and forth.

Top
#64916 - 02/26/12 12:37 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: namingthestars]
RAIDER Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
I really like this topic as it challenges the very notion of what 'normal' is. It would seem that transgenderism, by it's very existence, would be the antithesis of biological reality....but any study of transgenderism in the animal kingdom proves otherwise....it's fucking fascinating...ie.-fish that can change their gender, animals that can diguise themselves as their 'opposite' gender......these are NATURAL occurnces.
_________________________
DARK WOLF

Top
#64926 - 02/26/12 04:21 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: RAIDER]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
You can't compare the ability of specific animals to change gender with humans trying to change their gender.

That's like me saying that surgically adding horns to my skull is very natural because goats and cows have them too.

That's a comparison that just does not make sense.

D.

Top
#64930 - 02/26/12 07:26 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Diavolo]
RAIDER Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
I'm not comparing them, humans are obviously a different species ...and, as such, express a shift in gender in a different manner. Also, one does not have to have surgury to consider oneself transgendered.
_________________________
DARK WOLF

Top
#64931 - 02/26/12 07:27 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: RAIDER]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
 Originally Posted By: RAIDER
I really like this topic as it challenges the very notion of what 'normal' is. It would seem that transgenderism, by it's very existence, would be the antithesis of biological reality....but any study of transgenderism in the animal kingdom proves otherwise....it's fucking fascinating...ie.-fish that can change their gender, animals that can diguise themselves as their 'opposite' gender......these are NATURAL occurnces.


Yes, I find these stories fascinating and personally valuable, too. \:\)
Diavolo makes a good point, though. Even though we are all in a continual state of change so far as hormones go, we can use artificial means to create the physical body which most closely mirrors our innate sense of "self".
I now have the testosterone levels of a genetic male and this automatically causes redistribution of fat away from the hips, deeper voice, a shift in the skull plates to a more masculine face, firmer musculature and increased body hair.
It also makes your pee smell, your appetite ravenous and produces the urge to fiddle about with your genitalia (which also grows considerably) at any opportunity. Or encourage someone else to. \:D


Edited by felixgarnet (02/26/12 07:40 PM)
Edit Reason: Incorrect name!
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#64932 - 02/26/12 07:58 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: RAIDER]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: RAIDER
I'm not comparing them, humans are obviously a different species ...and, as such, express a shift in gender in a different manner. Also, one does not have to have surgury to consider oneself transgendered.


It's not about different species, it's that to desire another gender, you need to have a notion of self. Without this, you don't have a notion of your sex either. This rules out the majority of animals and explains why you won't see a chicken stick feathers up its ass in an attempt to be a rooster.

Gender change in animals is of a completely different nature and evolved because it improved the odds of their survival. But at no point, it is related to individuality.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (02/26/12 08:39 PM)

Top
#64933 - 02/26/12 10:09 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Diavolo]
RAIDER Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
Diavolo........I agree that gender change in different animals is different. This is a species specific thing. Some species physically become the other gender, some imitate the other gender without a physical transformation, and humans ( with some help, as felix explains) can do both.
Yes, the motivation for species other than human would be survival.
My intention was to present information, I think you're confusing comparing with contrasting.
_________________________
DARK WOLF

Top
#72339 - 10/31/12 10:43 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: RAIDER]
Naama Offline
member


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 318
Loc: NewYork
I am theoretically fascinated with the idea of transgenderism.
From what I've read about shaman culture ... gender transformation was considered to be one of the best achievements that a shaman can do.

Having lesbian sex with beautiful MtoF sounds irresistible...
_________________________
http://i57.tinypic.com/2j498ih.jpg

Top
#76129 - 04/26/13 08:46 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: felixgarnet]
IGNVSA Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 7
Loc: Manchester, Maryland
Ive been looking for ways to tie my Satanism into my transition, as well as intriguing reads on both subjects. I think its a hice idea.
_________________________
I am I

Top
#76137 - 04/27/13 02:08 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: IGNVSA]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Quote:
Ive been looking for ways to tie my Satanism into my transition, as well as intriguing reads on both subjects. I think its a hice idea.

How about viewing it as the transition of the dominant male approach of Satanism, through the use of archetype and symbols, towards the more feminine approach where there is a striving to embody the virtues of a Satanic witch/goddess Baphomet?

To understand the primarly male-oriented approach I refer to the "classics": Satanic Bible, Devils notebook, PostModernSatanism...
For the more female orientated approaches I refer to:
This (shameless self-promotion) and this one (PDF)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#76179 - 04/29/13 01:42 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Dimitri]
IGNVSA Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 7
Loc: Manchester, Maryland
I find it intriguing that you would suggest such a perspective, and follow it with a link containing comparisons between Baphomet and Freyja. These thoughts had actually been cropping up in my own mind, over the past several months; but seperately.
Oddly enough, the thought to combine them had never occured. Thank you for that insight.
_________________________
I am I

Top
#76425 - 05/18/13 10:49 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6673
Loc: Virginia
It's a fascinating topic. A recent news report which may be of interest to you: Couple sues state over Surgery The Crawford's adopted child (now 8) was assigned a gender by removing ambiguous genitalia. They claim at this stage the child identifies as male, seeks to look male and dress in boy's clothing.

This case is unique in that the child has both reproductive structures internally, so it wasn't just the removal of a superficial penis.

What most Clinicians have opined about the issue is that gender identity develops over time vs. a genetic predisposition for gender-identity.

In my personal observation, the sense of self is nurtured over time and the sum total of influences and experiences. This notion of 'Born This Way', I remain skeptical of.

In my personal dealings with friends and associates that are transgendered, it seems to be a social issue vs. one of biology. I think it makes some people happy to go through the motions of transforming their gender from one to another or in some cases none at all, such as gender-neutral. Others seem to go through a constant state of internal conflict and that emanates from every pore of their being. Pretty tragic if you ask me.

I know of a young high school girl (a friend of my BF's younger sister) who was born with no internal reproductive organs or genitalia. A surgery had to be performed for her to be able to defecate. She's an extremely pretty girl, but she's tried to commit suicide a number of times and has been in and out of Mental Hospitals for years (as well as heavily medicated).

As far as Clinical Gender goes, they've basically used the Genetic markers to sex her, but ideally she has no sex. She's been reassured that later in her live (post maturity) she can seek to construct genitalia for normalcy. I remain skeptical that this child will ever feel normal, no matter what hope she's offered for the future.

The condition is rare, but it's a birth defect that people prefer to keep private. I recall a news report of a woman born in Norway that made headlines. She was more or less a subject of ridicule and perhaps an oddity of fascination more than anything else. ( article here )

Socially, the issue of gender will always be part of our cultural strata. With gender-roles and law that seeks to protect people from... Well, other people. How can it not be?

As a woman, I don't sit around contemplating my gender. Even when faced with obvious sexism, I just find it telling of a person's mind and the correlations they make.

As a mother of a male child, I can tell you people make a big deal about gender when your raising offspring. When my son was just an infant, I feel pretty confident that he viewed me as God. He sought to emulate everything I said and did and looked upon me with such awe and admiration. It's surreal when you're a young mother. One of his favorite things to do was to watch me apply make-up. He wanted to emulate that, so I gave him empty make-up containers so he could pretend. When his father saw him patting his nose with a powder compact, I thought he was going to explode. He lambasted me on the dangers of turning him into a Queer. Naturally, I'd respond to this from a critical stance rather than react to his antics. He'd been programmed as a man, and his sense of self seemed to stem from what others told him he was, and should be. He was (is) always concerned with other people thought or would think. I didn't allow him to have such influence over my child, but you can't shelter them from everything.

No matter what you do or say, every person is subjected to influence. Whether by care-givers, television, peers, or the systems within any given society.


I've also seen my fair share of how children turn out being raised by Single parents (we weren't married long). Some women/men replace adult male companionship with that of their children, and turn their kids into perplexed human beings that often suffer an identity crisis.

It's all rather complex as each person is an individual, but generally speaking I still feel pretty firmly that gender identity is a social mechanism vs. a biological one.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#76621 - 05/24/13 12:51 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: SIN3]
IGNVSA Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 7
Loc: Manchester, Maryland
I suppose "fascinating" may be the best way to describe the subject of gender, in my mind. I only began my research about a year ago, on a genderqueer site (genderqueerid), but I spent the first three days and nights enthralled in the discussions I read.

Ive also found the subject of intersex to be something amazing; though, I'm so caught up in my transition I've been focusing more on that.

"Born this way": this is something that I'm not particularly crazy about; honestly, I feel like I had little choice in my gender, but if someone chose to be male, female, GQ, etc. there should be no shame in that either. While justifying being trans* (something I feel needs no justification) with "it's not a choice", we may be harming those who have chosen (if anyone does choose). Not to mention, the brain is plastic, and changes over our lives; therefore gender, a part of how we see ourSelves, may well be plastic too.
Im using a PS3, and it limits how much I can type, so Ill probably have to stop typing now.


Edited by IGNVSA (05/24/13 12:56 AM)
_________________________
I am I

Top
#76622 - 05/24/13 12:56 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: SIN3]
IGNVSA Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 7
Loc: Manchester, Maryland
I suppose "fascinating" may be the best way to describe the subject of gender, in my mind. I only began my research about a year ago, on a genderqueer site (genderqueerid), but I spent the first three days and nights enthralled in the discussions I read.

Ive also found the subject of intersex to be something amazing, though, I'm so caught up in my transition I've been focusing more on that.

"Born this way": this is something that I'm not particularly crazy about; honestly, I feel like I had little choice in my gender, but if someone chose to be male, female, GQ, etc. there should be no shame in that either. While justifying being trans* (something I feel needs no justification) with "it's not a choice", we may be harming those who have chosen (if any does choose). Not to mention, the brain is plastic, and changes over our lives; therefore gender, a part of how we see ourSelves, may well be plastic too.
Im using a PS3, and it limits how much I can type, so Ill probably have to stop typing now.
_________________________
I am I

Top
#76624 - 05/24/13 06:58 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: IGNVSA]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6673
Loc: Virginia
My thoughts on shaming, is that the person who identifies is the person attached to shame. For example, if a person did choose to change their gender through physical manipulation, any opinion about that shouldn't incite shame in a person unless they personally feel ashamed. If they do, they may want to reflect on that. People usually do the most harm to themselves.

I agree, in terms of the 'self'. That perception can change many times over a lifetime; however I'm not entirely certain that the core does.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#101058 - 06/25/15 04:07 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: x.emo.danny.x]
Blood Cleric Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/28/15
Posts: 39
Loc: California
I would for the sake of your own sanity veer away from gender stereotypes. They are often more harmful than not. If you seem to be drifting towards a new gender identity than go with the flow but at the very least understand the procedures that will make a more complete you before going through with them fully; basically research the hell out of your options before making steps.

All the best of luck in your self searching.


Edited by Blood Cleric (06/25/15 04:07 AM)
_________________________
Just another cosmic adversary

Top
#101060 - 06/25/15 04:44 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Blood Cleric]
Gattamelata Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 44
_________________________
Society : an inferno of saviors. —Emil Cioran

Top
#101061 - 06/25/15 05:32 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Gattamelata]
Blood Cleric Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/28/15
Posts: 39
Loc: California
ah great segway into race; definitely being comfortable in your own skin is never limited to gender... I hope in social politics were can eradicate one day these "natural" limiting boundaries and push ourselves further into personal contentment. If I feel like a wolf I shall become the wolf because I feel stronger in doing so.
_________________________
Just another cosmic adversary

Top
#101075 - 06/25/15 12:30 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Blood Cleric]
MReynolds Offline
Permanently Banned Troll
member


Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 282
Our struggle is your struggle!?

Seriously!?

Mister Wrong Skin, Godfrey, and his ilk need a major reality-check if they think that their "struggle" is my "struggle".

That's nothing new though, I saw talk-shows in the 90's, when I was a kid that showcased such persons. Identity crisis, persistent, and markedly disturbed indeed, but a part of me does wonder if there's an actual science behind it. ?

As for transgenderism.. what a joke that mess has become, but it's entertaining none-the-less. I myself was strongly suspected of having GID (Gender Identity Disorder) in my younger years. During puberty, I did experience a sex/gender conflict/crisis after all, and did have that sinking feeling of.. shit, I'm a female trapped in a male's body. That's not how I feel now-a-days, nor is it how I've felt in the last several years, or more actually. Perhaps gender-queer is appropriate, but.. fuck it, I'm just me. Sometimes I'm 'one of the boys', and other times I'm 'one of the girls'.



Edited by MReynolds (06/25/15 12:31 PM)
_________________________
-Matty \:\)

Top
#101079 - 06/25/15 12:51 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: MReynolds]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1145
Loc: San Diego, CA
On 'wrong skin'...

Say what you will, but the proof there is seriously something to feeling 'trapped' in the wrong body is found in all those men out there walking around wearing a bra and panties, and not for comfort. Androgen levels upon a spectrum, man/woman.

Top
#101081 - 06/25/15 01:13 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: MReynolds]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
 Originally Posted By: MR
I did experience a sex/gender conflict/crisis after all, and did have that sinking feeling of.. shit, I'm a female trapped in a male's body
I'm basically a lesbian in a man's body - but I like having a man's body, so not "trapped".

Having a donker is so much more convenient, I'm built like Apollo, I don't get all emotional once a month, chances are 75 - 80% I could kick any given person's ass in a fair-one (should it come to that), yet I have a nurturing side. Just look at the Baphomet - tits and a dick - it explains it all. I actually DO give a shit.

the only difference between you and I, is that I dig women. You can only fuck about, maybe an hour a day (unless you're into some seriously fun chemicals) and as it has been said before

"you fall in love with a person, not a gender"

You're not "fucked up" you're just honest.
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

Top
#101106 - 06/26/15 03:24 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: MReynolds]
Blood Cleric Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/28/15
Posts: 39
Loc: California
I guess my hopes for this thread is to eventually steer away from the whole gay/straight/bi-sexual preference discussion and delve into gender and racial identity. These are two separate topics but "struggle" wise I guess can be taken as referencing personal freedom.. possibly?
_________________________
Just another cosmic adversary

Top
#101166 - 06/27/15 09:42 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Blood Cleric]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 860
Loc: Nashville
Transgenders have slowly been gaining acceptance in society, but they still have a long way to go. Caitlyn Jenner kicked the door open with her Vanity Fair cover, but I think another recent cover is just as noteworthy. I subscribe to exactly one magazine, Entertainment Weekly, and earlier this month this is what came in the mail:



I couldn’t get over how beautiful she was. I showed the cover to my wife and asked what she thought of it. She remarked that the woman was very pretty. When I told her that the woman had been born male, she couldn’t believe it. I’m sure there are less feminine pics of her floating around online, but that cover is impressive.

I’ve never seen Orange Is the New Black, but now I’m curious (so to speak). I may check it out. Anyone else here seen it?
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

Top
#101175 - 06/27/15 12:14 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: William Wright]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1145
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
I’ve never seen Orange Is the New Black, but now I’m curious (so to speak). I may check it out. Anyone else here seen it?


That show kicks ass. Jenji Kohan (Sex In The City/Weeds) is a great writer, and did a great adaptation of the book (from what I've heard).

Like Weeds, it leaves you with some cliffhangers, and forces you to wait a year to find out if Alex got killed for ratting on the drug kingpin. Goddammit.

Though it's more geared towards women and LGBT considering the various story arcs.

Top
#101182 - 06/27/15 04:37 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: CanisMachina42]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 860
Loc: Nashville
I’m not surprised. I’ve heard a lot of good things about the show. I’ll probably check out Weeds as well. Never cared much for Sex and the City; probably helps if you have a vagina.

I’m OK with cliffhangers. It goes with the territory. The last two serial shows I got into were The Following and Bates Motel. Not surprised that The Following got canceled. First two seasons were fun, but the third season just didn’t work for me. I watched it with my daughter, and (spoiler alert) after Joe was executed (oops, too late) she wanted to watch it nevermore. She loved Joe, even more than Kevin Bacon’s character I think. As for Bates, Norman rocks well and his mom is super fucking hot. Great show.

I’m cool with LGBT stuff, as long as its focus is on the L. Kinda like T’s too (male to female). They’re not really dudes, so it’s not really gay. Just go with me on this.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

Top
#101187 - 06/27/15 09:35 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: William Wright]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
member


Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
Combing back through this thread I found a what-the-fuck-was-I-thinking? post of mine own from a few years ago. Disregard my old bullshit.

Transgenderism is not a black and white thing, but on the most basic level I can say this: It is every lucid person's right to do anything they want with their own body. Whatever anyone else thinks it is not their call.

Yes, I think pretty much all trans people have some issues with identity. Wouldn't you? It's not the cause, it's just the psychological factors that come about from going through transition. For comparison, think of anyone raised strict catholic that gave it up. Old feelings die hard.

Top
#101203 - 06/28/15 07:59 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TV is God]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6673
Loc: Virginia
If one is suffering from an identity crisis, how lucid can they be?

While I agree that your body belongs to you, do you think such conditions are needed to determine who or what has an authority over it?

 Quote:
It's not the cause, it's just the psychological factors that come about from going through transition.


How can you know this? Wouldn't this position act as authority to make such a determination?

It would be like creating an if/then position.

If, a person is lucid then I think they should be left alone to do what they want.

or

If, a person is not lucid then I think someone should step in and disrupt this process.

How about this one?

If you're to be autonomous, then be left to your own governance. Even if you fuck shit up.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#101227 - 06/28/15 07:33 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: SIN3]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
member


Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
Woah, there's a big jump there between issues and crisis.

That's a pretty small detail to get hung up on when we essentially agree.

By lucid I mean lucid. If having a few insecurities neurosis makes you not lucid I'll meet you all in the nuthouse.

Anyone with a reasonable ability to take care of themselves (no dementia, alzheimer's, ect.) should do whatever the fuck they want.

Top
#101238 - 06/29/15 09:45 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TV is God]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6673
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
there's a big jump there between issues and crisis.


Is there? How many Trans folk have you actually met and interact with on a regular basis? Issues looks a lot like Crisis. Perhaps it's become so normalized that men want to hack of their peni in favor of vaginas that it's no longer considered extreme. Sure, let them do what they want to their own bodies but you can still recognize it as a crisis.

Even people suffering from brain abnormalities are known to express thoughts clearly and precisely, even if they are just as batshit.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#101241 - 06/29/15 10:01 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TV is God]
when7iseleven Offline
member


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 187
Loc: High Peak, UK

It is every lucid person's right to do anything they want with their own body.


As long as they are willing to pay for it themsleves then if that's what they want to do then fine........but don't expect the taxpayer to fund it.

Same goes for couples who can't have children....there should only be four options 1) get over it 2) pay for your own IVF 3) adopt 4) get over it again.

Centrally funded Health Systems should be purely that, for health reasons & not for lifestyle choices.


Edited by when7iseleven (06/29/15 10:02 AM)
_________________________
There but for the Grace of I go I

Top
#101254 - 06/29/15 12:00 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: when7iseleven]
Sargeist Offline
member


Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 346
Loc: Chile
When it comes to sex appeal I'm a little fucked. I'm 30 years old yet without a beard I look like 20. I'm also short and fragile looking because of short limbs (my arms are quite thin, unlike my legs) and have a round belly I can't seem to get rid of. In other words I don't look exactly manly. However, I always wanted to look androgynous but the problem is that most women find androgynous men repulsive (specially metalheads) and I don't want to spend the rest of my life girlfriendless.

My point is, people have no issues with homosexuality but when you start playing with the preconceived notions of gender they get all outraged and upset. So much for open-mindedness.
_________________________
Perdition will set you free.

Top
#101258 - 06/29/15 01:29 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Sargeist]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
since you basically sound somewhat legit, and when it comes to helping random strangers, I'm basically "towelie" - just wired as such. Not unlike 'Rem' (if you're familiar with the whole death note saga)

The wifey? does not like it one fucking bit when I grow a beard. It itches when we kiss, and truthfully, I don't even like having one either - I just get lazy sometimes and let it do its thing. Not a problem.

Arms are quite the thing? Hey! If that bothers you so much, turns-out there's these mmm... weights you can curl. They're pretty cheap, too - if the time and energy invested is worth the apprehensions.

And no, people don't get all offended when you tinker with preconceived notions of gender. I'm fairly effeminate, at least in an emotional sense - I have never run into any issues. I care about people I care about - I'm not "24-7 Satan!" BUT... if pushed, yeah! we can step outside for a "chat"

Anyway, you won't spend your life "girlfriendless" if you'd just get the fuck over yourself. That you are posting such apprehensions is symptomatic of the underlying problem.

As if my having a small cock has ever once kept a girl from coming back for more :p

You're over-thinking things, my man. Be you.
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

Top
#101378 - 07/04/15 10:24 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Sargeist]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 860
Loc: Nashville
 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
When it comes to sex appeal I'm a little fucked. I'm 30 years old yet without a beard I look like 20. I'm also short and fragile looking because of short limbs (my arms are quite thin, unlike my legs) and have a round belly I can't seem to get rid of. In other words I don't look exactly manly. However, I always wanted to look androgynous but the problem is that most women find androgynous men repulsive (specially metalheads) and I don't want to spend the rest of my life girlfriendless.

My advice, and I mean this constructively, is for you to end your little pity party, go out there and get yourself a girlfriend. All those things you said are just excuses for inaction. Don’t get all hung up on being short. Short guys get laid all the time. Most girls prefer a clean-shaven guy (at least here in America), so shave. A lot of 30 year olds, men and women, would LIKE to look 20 – own it.

Thin arms, round belly? Sign up for a gym membership and actually go. Eat healthier. Most women find androgynous men repulsive? Since when? Justin Bieber became an international sex symbol looking and singing androgynously. Prince? David Bowie? Again, just another excuse for you to sit around feeling sorry for yourself.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

Top
#101380 - 07/04/15 01:55 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: William Wright]
Sargeist Offline
member


Registered: 02/20/15
Posts: 346
Loc: Chile
Well, I just began doing HIIT cardio and given up on refined sugar and soft drinks. I'm also trying to eat more frequently during the day to keep the metabolism going.

About androgyny, I think it's mostly teenage girls that find androgynous men attractive. At least I've never heard about female headbangers getting horny for that kind of men.
_________________________
Perdition will set you free.

Top
#101381 - 07/04/15 02:22 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Sargeist]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
*chuckles* "Thanks for calling the 600 hotline, we are always glad to be of assistance"

Seriously, though. Yeah, I would tend to agree that it is mostly teenage girls that find the androgynous attractive. And rightfully so. If I had a hymen I'd probably cringe at the idea of breaking it (but what do I know? I'm a "dood")

I really have to ask: "female head bangers"? Here's a hint - they enjoy coke - ALOT (just like the label on that stupid soda can says) there is usually nothing more to it. ;\)

It is quite possible that you are looking for love in all the wrong places.

If you're just not a manly-man you're probably not going to find "her" at any sort of sausage-fest of a concert, and even if you do, you're talking a quite a few sausage-packing competitors with quite the amount of blow to blow (to get blown). Not a good scene. The "female head bangers" - the good ones are few and far between. You may just as well date a stripper.

You've probably run into her a few times already, maybe in school, maybe at the market - you just didn't have the balls were too self-conscious to say "hi" "don't put the pussy on pedestal"

If you don't ask, the answer is always "no" ;\)


Edited by antikarmatomic (07/04/15 02:32 PM)
Edit Reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9ZGN_eAEbA
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

Top
#101385 - 07/05/15 11:08 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Sargeist]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 860
Loc: Nashville
 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
About androgyny, I think it's mostly teenage girls that find androgynous men attractive. At least I've never heard about female headbangers getting horny for that kind of men.

I’d imagine that there are more than a few cougar mom-types who find young androgynous men attractive but regardless, you just gotta get out there and interact. Get over yourself and your “poor me” story, go meet women and be confident. This isn’t rocket science. It's up to you.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

Top
#101397 - 07/06/15 02:08 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: William Wright]
Satanic Princess Offline
member


Registered: 05/04/15
Posts: 204
Loc: New Zealand
A part of me hates being attractive.
I'm 6'2", curvy, with long, toned legs; an athletic build; with long, thick, curly dark brown hair that reaches my hips; dark, clear olive skin and liquid-chocolate brown eyes (like Arabic eyes).
And all guys (and some girls) seem to want from me is sex and will do anything to get it and don't seem to realise that I stay faithful to my boyfriend. Sigh.
Is screaming out "you're in the friendzone, fucking deal with it!" too rude?
_________________________
I'm a Princess. Bow before me!
Chin up tiger \:\)

I plan to live forever.... so far, so good! \:\)

Top
#101406 - 07/07/15 06:57 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Satanic Princess]
MReynolds Offline
Permanently Banned Troll
member


Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 282
Um, you sound un-attractive to me.. and yes, I like females too, so..

Nah, not too rude though.. lol \:\)
_________________________
-Matty \:\)

Top
#101407 - 07/07/15 07:26 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Sargeist]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6673
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
Well, I just began doing HIIT cardio and given up on refined sugar and soft drinks. I'm also trying to eat more frequently during the day to keep the metabolism going.

About androgyny, I think it's mostly teenage girls that find androgynous men attractive. At least I've never heard about female headbangers getting horny for that kind of men.


So really, the point you were making is that gender-identity is something you want to conform to? And here I thought you were trying to demonstrate a challenge to the status quo.

7 Billion people, by the odds, there's someone for everyone. If, you're the type that needs another person to complete you. If it's just primal desire and sex, you can work what you've got with skill (but hey booze and coke help too).

If you lack confidence in your convictions, people smell it on you and it's repulsive. Literally.

How do you feel about a limp handshake?


Edited by SIN3 (07/07/15 07:29 PM)
Edit Reason: Maybe it's a little over 7 now, hell if I know. I had to google it.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#101418 - 07/08/15 10:57 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: MReynolds]
Satanic Princess Offline
member


Registered: 05/04/15
Posts: 204
Loc: New Zealand
 Originally Posted By: MReynolds
Um, you sound un-attractive to me.. and yes, I like females too, so..

Nah, not too rude though.. lol \:\)


Thank you, thankyou Matty ;\)
Hahhahaha; I sure you're equally unattractive :p LOL
_________________________
I'm a Princess. Bow before me!
Chin up tiger \:\)

I plan to live forever.... so far, so good! \:\)

Top
#108600 - 09/11/16 01:47 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Satanic Princess]
Coligula Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/26/15
Posts: 35
Loc: Shithole, Uruguay
Well, I knew a few and stuff. I hadn't the opportunity to see character changes through hormone therapy (something that many say it's true), but I can tell something more:

Character is something that's forged, so becouse transexuals can't have children, they also have similiarities with infertile women (or men). They can't have children, so they don't have the same things preassuring them as with women. They know they can fuck all they want, when they want it, and with anyone.

I've experienced some rage attacks, but I think that was just me. Maybe hormones I don't know. Culture maybe, they have their own culture even though they try to imitate women... for example: You will notice that they have a crapton of transexual friends.


Edited by Coligula (09/11/16 01:55 PM)

Top
#108601 - 09/11/16 03:00 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Coligula]
venomcultist Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/07/16
Posts: 77
you can't love someone who's the same gender, it's not about children although I do enjoy the company of small people. True love is a journey of realisation via the two sides of the universe man vs woman, if you're not willing to strike while the iron is hot, if you're not willing to sacrifice perhaps part or all of yourself, if you're not willing to move heaven and earth for a woman then life for you would be numb, colorless and tedious.
Top
#108613 - 09/11/16 10:56 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Coligula]
Lyscii Offline
lurker


Registered: 04/07/16
Posts: 1
 Originally Posted By: Coligula
Well, I knew a few and stuff. I hadn't the opportunity to see character changes through hormone therapy (something that many say it's true), but I can tell something more:

Character is something that's forged, so becouse transexuals can't have children, they also have similiarities with infertile women (or men). They can't have children, so they don't have the same things preassuring them as with women. They know they can fuck all they want, when they want it, and with anyone.
STDs are still a thing, so I don't fuck everything that moves. Not having to worry about spawning a kid is pretty great though. I wouldn't want one even if I had the ability to create one.

As far as hormones changing character, it does have an effect, though it's not super drastic. My interests and taste in music and food changed a bit, but most of what I liked before I still like. I can be a little more emotional, I do cry every now and then, as opposed to pretty much never. I am overall a happier person, and having a body that's much closer to how I see myself in my head is a pretty big factor in that.

Right around when I first started transitioning, I decided that things would work best if I truly did not care what anyone thought about me. I was fully prepared if my family, friends, and job rejected me. Thankfully, none of that happened. But I believe that thought changed my character at least as much as hormones did, if not more. Instead of feeling like I needed to become a stereotype of femininity, I stayed rather androgynous. I don't really care if someone mis-genders me, and the ones who can't seem to figure me out do provide some amusement.


--
Venom, sexual orientation is different from being transgender. And the fact that I love my girlfriend is enough evidence to shut your silly statement down.

Top
#110270 - 11/14/16 05:37 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Stag]
Dallas101 Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/16
Posts: 15
Loc: USA
Here are my opinions. First be yourself To be honest I myself am bisexual and you know what it's who the heck I am. Also I fully support anyone who identifies with any sexuality or gender identity, and honestly sometimes I feel like a girl on the inside and I'm proud to be who I am so as for you be yourself and you'll always have me and many others and this goes out to everyone your not alone and there are people just like you questioning who they are and I encourage them to explore who they are.
_________________________
Hey Im Dallas, Pm me I always live to chat. \:\)

Top
#110300 - 11/15/16 08:36 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Sargeist]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1126
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: Sargeist
Well, I just began doing HIIT cardio and given up on refined sugar and soft drinks. I'm also trying to eat more frequently during the day to keep the metabolism going.

Cardio is great, but you need to lift to do something about the scrawny arms. Don't just cut sugar, have some protein.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

Top
Page all of 10 12345>Last »


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.146 seconds of which 0.006 seconds were spent on 162 queries. Zlib compression disabled.