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#3292 - 01/10/08 06:08 AM Transgenderism.
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I was wondering what the opinion of people here is of transgenderism. Not anything on a sexual basis but simply the idea that people feel they identify enough with the opposite sex that they believe they should have been born as the opposite sex.

I've spent a little time looking into this over the past to day (I tend to pick a random subject that interests me and research it for a few days for fun) and I've noticed that there are 3 main groups in this: The people who insist they are the oposite gender to what they actually are, even down to the point of expecting people to use the pronouns they prefer. There are the people who go all out and get the sex change, good for them. And then there is the third unknown group, they want to be the opposite sex but rarely act upon it, these people are often called tomboyish or metrosexual (uuuggghhh, aweful phrase).

So opinions. Comments.
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#3301 - 01/10/08 12:40 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
This is an incredibly intricate topic. The issue differs from person to person just like Satanism does. If you're truly interested in one person's experience with Transgenderism, I HIGHLY suggest picking up the film VENUS OF MARS. It details the life of local a Minneapolis musician through childhood, adolescence, marriage, and adulthood with in-depth interviews of family members and friends. I've had the pleasure of meeting Steve/Venus several times and have found her to be one of the most unique and interesting people I've met.

http://www.hwpics.com/venusofmars/index.html

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#3307 - 01/10/08 03:45 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Octavius]
x.emo.danny.x Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 40
All my life when people meet me they ask if I am gay. I am not and I generally express that heavilly. At one point my girlfriend at the time said that the reason people think I am gay is because I am metrosexual. Well I don't know whether or not I actually am or not but I guess I do have some more feminine charectoristics in my personality. I loathe the term metrosexual. And just to add I think I would live just the same male or female but if I could've chosen before birth I would have chosen female.
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#3327 - 01/11/08 07:59 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: x.emo.danny.x]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
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Ironically I have been having similar experiences myself, few people think I'm gay though. (in fact I'm bisexual, and the real kind of bisexual as in I've actually had relationships with BOTH genders and find members of both genders sexually attractive, not the fake kind that think kissing someone of the same sex makes them bi).

I have notices I tend to resent woman alot, mainly for things I can do. I love womens fasion, some of the sexy things they wear are wonderful and I hate the fact that reguardless of what the event is, women have a choice of many different outfits. Men just dress up like fucking penguins.

Men don't have sexy bodies or grace either. Few men are sexy. Some are attractive, but almost never sexy. Woman can wear a multitude of different things, corsets for a start... DAMN!

On top of that, woman are much more social creatres, they are capible of levels of manipulation that I envy quite a lot. I know what they use to get there own way, I just don't have what they had... if only I was a 17 year old girl I'd be able to milk the damn world for anything I wanted just with a flash of ass and a cute giggle.

The grace is the thing I envy most. All woman are graceful. It's the main reason I play elves in video games, I like grace. However I'm a 230lb, 6'6" guy... I'm the hulking mass that bumps into everything, I hate that.

In many ways I'm stereotypically male so I doubt I'm truely transgendered but I'm much more feminine than I let on and I'm considerably more feminine than the guys I know... makes me wonder from time to time if genetics fucked up somewhere.

The thing is I also have a lot less respect for woman in that they seem incapable of honesty, integrity, logical thought or dissociating their emotions. Granted I am generalising but still, women in my experience seem to lack stability and I've quickly learned to not trust them.

Maybe it's just me. I'm in my early 20's I have time yet to "discover myself", although I think it's more discovering my emotions and tethering them down that I need to do. But enough of the self absorbed bullshit, we were discussing transgenderism....
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#3401 - 01/12/08 06:20 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
You almost sound like a misogynist. Something I've noticed is quite rampant within the gay and fringe community.

 Originally Posted By: tornadocreator
The thing is I also have a lot less respect for woman in that they seem incapable of honesty, integrity, logical thought or dissociating their emotions. Granted I am generalising but still, women in my experience seem to lack stability and I've quickly learned to not trust them.


Boy that sure is a generalisation. IF women are less capable of these qualities (which I don't actually agree with) I would say it's because society (eg men) have seen these qualities in women as unattractive. Therefore, women have from birth been taught to be dishonest about everything to maintain a stereotype of attractiveness.

As soon as a women is outspoken, self supportive, logical and emotionally dissasociated they are often labelled a lesbian, dyke, bitch or myriad of unflattering names. Staunchness in a women is rarely valued by society.

 Quote:
Few men are sexy.
I find alot of men to be very sexy. But then what I find sexy may well be different to what you do.

Anyway, I have known transgendered people on both sides of the fence, men that have had the operation to make themselves female and females that have turned male. It is the latter that is much less talked about or understood. I actually think there would be less of it, if being a standup person was considered more of a human trait rather than just a male one.

I don't think of metrosexuals as frustrated women (well not until now anyway), I just think of them as men in touch with their feminine side. Same with tomboys. I've always been a bit of a tomboy, yet I've never wanted to change sex to be a man. For one, although I've experimented and had sex with women and men, I really am straight and am attracted to men sexually. If I was to become a man, I'd then be wanting to have sex with other men, which would make me a straight women in a gay mans body. LOL or something like that.

Like Octavious said, it's a personal thing, it's going to be completely different for each person. Are you wanting to become a women?

Zephyrgirl
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#3408 - 01/12/08 10:55 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I'm not wanting to become a woman no, I just feel I exhibit traits and have feelings and tendancies that are too feminine. I would love to wear pink, pink is gorgeous, but damn does it look aweful on a man.... that's not normal for a guy to say or even think.

I am male. Gender is not a democracy. Pronouns are not negotiable, HOWEVER! I also feel that there are some people who would fit in to society better as a member of the opposite sex. I think I don't fit in either, I feel equally male and female tendancies and I am bisexual as well. I'm the untimate middleground. I would however be having exactly the same convosation if I was a woman, wanting to have the strength, power and stature of a man as apposed to the grace and beauty of a woman.

As for me being a misogynist. I like to think I'm not personally. I'm more of a masculanist, (which is like a feminist but opposite and with an actual issue to conbat, unlike todays feminists who alreay have everything and more).
I worry if I'm allowing certain people to tarnish my veiw of a gender but then I realise it's not just certain people. They have worsened the case, but I have seen the traits I hate in almost all those I've met and I think that those who don't show these traits are simply the exception to the rule. Sorry if that comes across as pretentious.
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#3410 - 01/12/08 11:17 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
I wear my pink (and I mean PINK) shoes to work every day! I get compliments from both coworkers and customers all day long regardless of their gender or orientation! Pink is just a color. If you assign more meaning to it, then it will mean something. This goes into the same concept as "can you pull off that outfit?" I wear my pink shoes, cuffed blue jeans and dickies shirts with pride and style. Your avatar paints you as a snappy dresser...I'm a bit surprised to hear you have issues based on color!

Wear what makes you feel good. And make it look good!
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#3411 - 01/13/08 12:05 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Octavius]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
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I consider myself to be a snappy dreser actually and I do where what I like however it's still not the cultural norm, I never said I conformed to the cultural norm, just that it's a slight concern of mine.

Personally I think pink looks gaudy on most men, some can look good in it, most I feel don't. However I think differing shades of red look wonderful on a man. They can really bring out his shape and make him more demanding and agressive without it being threatening like black or white frequently is. Mixing black and red can give an air of danger and confidence whilst mixing white an red can give an aura of dignity and elegance.

Colour can say a lot about a person, colour can express a persons innermost feeling and effects most people on a profound primal level. Yet at the same time it could just be what that person had clean left in the wardrobe.

Fashion is something I find intruiging really.

My main concern is that I don't want to gradiually become this....


Start watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq6yRo4IsBI
at 4:56 in and you'll see a much better example of what I mean, the picture is not very good.


Edited by TornadoCreator (01/13/08 12:07 AM)
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#3450 - 01/14/08 12:12 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
birdstrike Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
I think that through life each person has to become different people. It is important to explore every different aspect of ones personality. I will say this though: I don't believe that anybody was "born the wrong sex". At the same time though I think that if one feels the urge to explore then it will only benefit ones personality to do so.

On the other hand it is still a freak show to me when I see a man dressed as woman. I still take the opportunity to exercise my superior morality, and take on life, by laughing at them. After all anything different to me is still a threat. I am an animal!
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#3457 - 01/14/08 01:12 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Satansfarm Offline
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Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
I am fascinated with transgenders as they will themselves to change to a very specific metamorphasis. I think it's a lesson in lesser magic. They alter their appearence, their mannerisms, their speech patterns and tone. They use chemicals and surgery towards these ends. The results range from embarrassing to a completely convincing illusion. It is a human trait to desire to alter one's surroundings and even one's self. Changing one's sex is more challenging than say, changing one's shoes.
Fascinating.

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#3466 - 01/14/08 04:20 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
I understand what you are saying about pink and men, when it comees to colours like fuscia, but there are many varying shades of pink, enough that there should be one to suit anyone. Maybe a nice shade of pale red would suit you better. LOL
I recently attended an event where 13000 put on hot pink ponchos and formed the shape of a pink lady on a football oval. My ex-husband and daughter attended it with me and we have a wonderful photo of the three of us at it. However, the pink wasn't really a very nice shade and none of us looked particularly good in it, although I think my ex came out the worst. Everyone who has seen it has made some sort of sarcaastic comment about a gay grim reaper. LOL

 Originally Posted By: tornadocreator
which is like a feminist but opposite and with an actual issue to conbat, unlike todays feminists who alreay have everything and more


Whilst the feminine movement has made great gains in some ways, it is debateable to say that there is no longer an issue to combat. On the old site there was a thread about Hilary Clinton that turned into a debate about feminism, which highlighted (to me anyway) the fact that feminism is a very misunderstood term, often used as an insult these days. I'm not saying that you are wrong to be a masculinist, it's just a pet peave of mine.

About that though, you sound like you want to be true to yourself, and show all those wonderful feminine qualities you possess, but are afraid to be seen in that light. True masculinity isn't afraid to wear pink or be graceful. Gender is what it is and there will always be people that are androgenous or overtly gender challanged should we say. I don't think it matters one iota, unless you lack confidence in the person that you are. Don't think that being a woman would make your life easier, that just isn't true. Both sexes have advantages and disadvantages to deal with.
They are not equal, but neither is better than the other either, they are just different for the most part.

Zeph
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#3474 - 01/14/08 10:39 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I understand entirely ZephyrGirl, I'm more man than woman by far, in manerisms and opinions however I feel much more feminine than other men I see around me and that concerns me, after all, becoming a social outcast can really put barriers up for people and although my friends would likely either not notice or not care about me showing more feminine traits the rest of the world will likely react bad. This is the same world I need to function in, get a job in, etc. That's why it's a concern for me. Sometimes, for a few minutes I wonder what it would be like to be female and I have often wished I was, for only moments. I however know I would likely have even more problems if I was female than I do now.

As for feminism, I feel it's done it's job. Women now, in this country at least, have the right to vote, the right to work, and the right to equal pay. It went to far when they where given the right to 18 months payed maternaty leave, get preferensial treatment in child custody cases on the grounds that "children need there mothers" and can cause civil suit cases because the queue to use the womans toilets in a mall is 3 times longer that the men toilets (mainly because men piss and get out of there, women spend half an hour chatting, reappling make-up, ajusting there bra/wig/fake nails and always seem to go in FUCKING PAIRS). Masculinists want this to change, we want fair hearings in custody battles, paternaty leave equal to that of the womans maternaty leave if the mothers job is more vital and less gender expectations... if woman want to be equal in that they can work, vote and have equal pay, they should buy there own drinks at a nightclub, split the cost of a meal and pay for there own god damn cinema ticket. That's my stance.
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#3486 - 01/15/08 07:35 AM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I'm with you on many points, TC, and I myself have many "masculine" traits, despite my being female. I'm aggressive (not physically so, but wow I curse--ever since 4th grade I've had a mouth), I prefer working and hanging out with men, because of their sick humor, they don't gripe and gossip and undercut each other the way women do (I just can't understand that about women, you know?). I love sex, and fantasize about it all the time. I was quite a tomboy as a child, going fishing with my dad, helping him do yard work, going with him and participating in RC boat shows around Florida, etc. But I still played with my dolls. Granted, I may have shaved their heads and had them raped or put on the rack by Ken or other Barbies, but still

On the flip side, I do like to dress up, wear jewelry, paint my toenails (I can't wear nail polish--I use with solvents at work which takes it right off), keep my nails looking decent, I'm picky about my hair, but keep it short to have away from my face.

As for the whole feminism issue, yes, it's gotten a bit out of hand. But that happens when someone/group has been under the yoke of domination for eons...they get a little carried away at first, but eventually it'll calm down and balance out. Women have only been "liberated" for less than 100 years. Give them time to get comfortable with their situation, and learn how to exist in their redefined roles (which are still in an upheaval), and it'll get better for both sexes.
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#3488 - 01/15/08 12:06 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: Nemesis]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Well it's nice to know I'm not the only one experiencing a little gender-role confusion here.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#3490 - 01/15/08 01:32 PM Re: Transgenderism. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Stag Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 84
Transhumanist blogger, George P. Dvorsky recently wrote a thought-provoking blog essay on 'postgenderism':

Overcoming Gender

Stag

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