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#3300 - 01/10/08 12:22 PM A slice of American culture
Rainy Offline
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Registered: 01/05/08
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Loc: US Florida Tampa Bay
(I am stealing this blog post from my husband, with some minor editing)

My son Devin Nero was born November 25th. Alot of questions arise when you have a child that you would love to keep out of the influence of the herd. one of our questions was...

what about circumcision?

I never really had the need to give it much thought. I decided to do a bit of googleing and came up with some interesting tid-bits.

The Origin of Non-Religious Circumcision
by Mary G. Ray 1997,

Circumcision itself began as a religious ritual or puberty rite as long as 6000 years ago.
"It started as an ancient Egyptian custom and there are wall carvings to prove it. It seems to have its origin in snake worship. The Egyptians believed that when the snake shed its skin, and emerged shiny and new again, it was undergoing rebirth. They reasoned that if, by shedding skin, the snake could become apparently immortal, then humans should follow suit. They made the simple equation: snakeskin = foreskin, and the operation began. From there it spread to many Semetic peoples, both Arabs and Jews adopting it and converting it into an act of religious faith. As the centuries passed, it became popular in other regions of the world for moral, medical, or hygenic reasons. " From the book, Babywatching by Desmond Morris.

Non-religious circumcision began in England inthe late 1800s and it became extremely popular in English-speaking countries between 1920 and 1950. England introduced the practice to the U.S. At the time, it was believed that masturbation caused a host of different illnesses. Masturbation was considered extremely immoral and many children, both male and female, have been circumcised throughout the years because parents discovered them "in the act." To this day, who doesn't remember the threat associated with masturbation that "you'll go blind?"

It was known even in the late 1800s that the removal of the foreskin (the only moveable part of the penis) would reduce sexual sensitivity and restrict movement of the penile shaft.
A noted Jewish sage, Rabbi Moses Maimonides inhis Guide to the Perplexed, expressed the following:

"...people believe that circumcision is to remove a defect in man's formation... How can products of nature be deficient so as to require external completion, especially as the use of the foreskin to that organ is evident. This commandment has not been enjoined as a complement to a deficient physical creation, but as a means for perfecting man's moral short comings. ...Circumcision simply counteracts excessive lust; for thereis no doubt that circumcision weakens the power of sexual excitement,and sometimes lessens the natural enjoyment..."

It was believed that masturbation caused blindness, mental illness, alcoholism, epilepsy and a host of other ills. It thereforemade sense to some physicians that genital surgery would stop masturbationand prevent the onset of these illnesses.

"A remedy [for masturbation] which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision..." The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anesthetic, as the pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment..." John Harvey Kellog, M.D., Treatmentfor Self-Abuse and Its Effects, Plain Facts for Old and Young, Burlington,Iowa; F. Segner & Co., 1888.

When it was finally realized that masturbation did not cause illnesses, the foreskin became the blame for penile and cervical cancers, urinary tract infections and sexually transmitted diseases.

All of the medical reasons for circumcision have been eliminated by experts. Circumcised men are not immune to suffering from these diseases. The surgery offers no warranty.

"It may well be that society's greatest madness seems normal to itself."
Allan Bloom, The Closing of the American Mind

There are 23 medically advanced nations. The U.S. is the only nation which routinely circumcises nearly 63% of its newborn males. Our country represents less than 1/20th of the world population, yet it performs more than half of all infant circumcisions worldwide. If the foreskin is so prone to problems, why haven't other advanced nations adopted routine circumcision? One can't help but wonder why the U.S. is the only medically advanced nation that performs routine infant circumcisions without any medical indication.

Routine Infant Circumcision is limited to English speaking countries. The practice was intoduced to the U.S. through England, but they abandoned it nearly 50 years ago, practicing it now at the rate of only 1%. The rate is 3% in New Zealand, 10% in Australia and 20% to 25% in Canada. RIC is not offered in most non-English speaking countries. It never caught on in Europe, Asia, South or Central America. If the majority of men elsewhere in the world were having medical problems because their penises were left intact, wouldn't these countries begin the practice?

As far as I can tell, there are no pro-circumcision organisations, but a multitue of anti. I just thought I would share this information with people, as I was surprised at what I learned. So do any of you have thoughts on this subject? If you have a son and are in America, what choice did you make and why?

Discuss!
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#3303 - 01/10/08 02:07 PM Re: A slice of American culture [Re: Rainy]
x.emo.danny.x Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 40
If sexual feelings are stronger with his penis intact, let him keep it! I am circumsised and think not only is it retarded that it was done but also that my penis would look better with forskin.
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#3308 - 01/10/08 04:40 PM Re: A slice of American culture [Re: x.emo.danny.x]
Happy Birthday Asmedious Moderator Offline
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LOL, well I'm sure glad I was born in Europe AFTER 1950.

I haven't had any problems either, and can keep "it" as clean and sparkly as the next guy.

Somehow, I think my post might qualify for the "Too much information" award.
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#3309 - 01/10/08 05:03 PM Re: A slice of American culture [Re: Asmedious]
Rainy Offline
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Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 11
Loc: US Florida Tampa Bay
Yes, I realize that this conversational topic may require a person to divulge some personal information. But we are all mature adults...right?

I was just so glad that I did some research before making the decision. So many people I know have just done it solely on the word-of-mouth belief that it has some sort of real health benefits.

A cure for masturbation!?! Decreased sexual pleasure!?! I would surely hate to limit my sons enjoyment of one of lifes most enjoyable activities.
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#3314 - 01/10/08 06:48 PM Re: A slice of American culture [Re: Rainy]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Hello Rainy,

I have a 21 month old son. He is not circumsized. My husband and I spoke about it in much detail also, but decided that cleanliness really was the only issue, and as Asmedious has pointed out, it's not that hard to keep it as clean and sparkly as the next guy (pun intended).

As a women I prefer the look of a circumsized penis when soft, but when they are hard, there is very little difference and lets face it, everything looks better hard.

Zephyrgirl
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#3317 - 01/10/08 08:22 PM Re: A slice of American culture [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
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IMHO, the circumcised penis is much more aesthetically pleasing.
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#3318 - 01/10/08 09:41 PM Re: A slice of American culture [Re: Fist]
Rainy Offline
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Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 11
Loc: US Florida Tampa Bay
But what is it that makes it more aesthetically pleasing? Is is just because it is what we in America are used to seeing?

If my son had an abnormally large nose, or perhaps a eleventh finger, or even a small stub of a tail, should I choose to have surgery done (without anaesthesia, as is the norm for circumcision) to let other people be more pleased with his apperance? Or should I let him decide when he is mature enough to be bothered with his differences, and also old enough to be given proper pain relief?
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#3319 - 01/10/08 09:43 PM Re: A slice of American culture [Re: Fist]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
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I think that's why the tradition is carried on through the generations. It's really about how it looks. The mother of the child knows that she likes the look of a circumcised penis, so maybe she's assuming that her child will be sort of "left out" of a social norm, and that future women in her son's life might be "grossed out" by the look of an uncircumcised penis. The father feels that hey, he's had it done, his son should get the procedure done as well.

Circumcision is most certainly not medically hygenic or any such thing, except it takes an extra 5 seconds longer in the shower to pull the foreskin back, give the head a good scrub, and bam, you're all "clean and sparkly" as Asmedious put it .
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#3320 - 01/10/08 10:35 PM Re: A slice of American culture [Re: Nemesis]
Happy Birthday Asmedious Moderator Offline
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 Quote:
except it takes an extra 5 seconds longer in the shower to pull the foreskin back, give the head a good scrub, and bam, you're all "clean and sparkly" as Asmedious put it .


Quite right. And to prove it, let me just upload this picture right here...

Umm, let's see now......"cut"
"Paste, and.........here we go....


EDIT: Damn, "Image to huge to upload to internet"


Edited by Asmedious (01/10/08 10:36 PM)
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#3321 - 01/10/08 10:59 PM Re: A slice of American culture [Re: Asmedious]
x.emo.danny.x Offline
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Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 40
Maybe you should take the picture again. It was the picture that was too big and not your penis. I might add that I was going to do the same thing I just couldnt get back far enough to get the whole thing in the picture! just kidding :}
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#3326 - 01/11/08 06:58 AM Re: A slice of American culture [Re: x.emo.danny.x]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Oh boys....you're killin' me!
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#3354 - 01/11/08 04:51 PM Re: A slice of American culture [Re: x.emo.danny.x]
Happy Birthday Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York
 Quote:
I might add that I was going to do the same thing I just couldnt get back far enough to get the whole thing in the picture! just kidding :}


no no no, you were supposed to upload a picture of your PENIS, not your back side LMAO. ;\)
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