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#34030 - 01/15/10 08:03 AM Ubuntu (the philosophy)
Baron dHolbach Offline
member


Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
Ubuntu is an African cultural concept described by Nelson Mandela as follows:

"A traveler through a country would stop at a village and he didn't have to ask for food or for water. Once he stops, the people give him food, entertain him. That is one aspect of Ubuntu but it will have various aspects. Ubuntu does not mean that people should not enrich themselves. The question therefore is: Are you going to do so in order to enable the community around you to be able to improve?"

Because Ubuntu is usually explained and lauded by RHP types, the language used may irritate the sensibilities of the Satanist. But I would say Ubuntu can be adapted to the LHP.

First, it is entirely compatible with Atheism, as evidenced by the above quote, which never mentions God or religion or the afterlife. You will find Christians such as Bishop Desmond Tutu lauding Ubuntu, but that doesn't make Ubuntu a Christian concept. It isn't. Nor is it Muslim, nor Hindu.

Second, Ubuntu is entirely compatible with amorality, with a beyond good and evil orientation. You will find Ubuntu described in the context of moral goodness, because the speaker or author is RHP, but Ubuntu can be interpreted from the perspective of enlightened self-interest. The goal isn't righteousness, but rather, mutual benefit.

Game theorists have been telling us for years that the biggest prize doesn't always go to the biggest bastard. Success in life isn't always zero-sum. Cooperating with others can be a winning strategy. Lex Talionis can be pre-emptive and benign. If I'm fairly certain you would invite me into your home for dinner if I showed up at your doorstep hungry, then I may choose to invite you into my own home for dinner. Helping someone who is likely to help you some time in the future can be very smart.

Ubuntu fits in nicely with the mindset I suspect the Satanist soldier or sailor maintains, expressed in such sentiments as, "No one gets left behind." If I'm fairly certain that, if I were wounded, you would carry me on your back while running to a better battlefield position, then I may well decide to carry you on mine, at considerable risk to my own safety. This is Ubuntu.
_________________________
The baboon is the soul of man.



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#34036 - 01/15/10 08:52 AM Re: Ubuntu (the philosophy) [Re: Baron dHolbach]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
In general, I would say that 'we' take care of 'our' kind. This is a basic human reaction that stems from our evolved tribal survival strategy. In modern times it boils down to Social Contract Theory. If I get hurt or otherwise find my self in need, you will help me and I agree to do the same if you are in need.

This works fabulously in small social groups. It pretty much falls apart as a form of collectivist national govt or large religious order. Scale is the enemy of Social Contract Theory, as individuals can hide among the numbers and only take from the social group giving little back in return. Leaders of large collectives quickly find themselves isolated from the membership and also take more than their fair share as they feather their own nests at the expense of the collective.

In the case of Ubuntu, you will find similar hospitality practices in most any tribal society. Again, people are hardwired to behave this way. It is a vestige of our evolutionary process. I have seen this first hand among the Pashtun people in Afghanistan. Even people who might otherwise kill you will welcome you in for tea.

Among our little clan, I think most here would break bread with any member in good standing. I believe this is the point of our club - to vett people online for live networking in the future.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#36133 - 03/06/10 09:32 PM Re: Ubuntu (the philosophy) [Re: Fist]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
I generally go out of my way to be nice to people (as long as it doesn’t involve giving them money). I do this for selfish reasons. If I treat others well, they’re more likely to treat me well. Also, consistently treating others well over time helps me to establish a good reputation. Most importantly, treating others well creates within me a sense of well-being that puts me in the right frame of mind to make good things happen for myself.

I don’t turn the other cheek or otherwise tolerate assholery. However, I’ve found that being a decent chap towards other decent chaps tends to work well for me.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#36137 - 03/07/10 05:41 AM Re: Ubuntu (the philosophy) [Re: Fist]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
I definitely can see myself helping out, and even welcoming a traveler who is need of food, water, and a temporary place to rest, even without thinking about how I might be given the same consideration in the future by someone else.

On the other hand, I do differentiate between a “traveler,” and a “bum,” looking for a handout. Someone who is traveling is likely following some kind of a goal that they have set for themselves, either that of reaching a place, or just seeing the sights. If it is within my power, and I don’t lose a great deal in the effort, I am in favor of assisting someone else in reaching their goal.
A bum on the other hand just leeches off of the inherent generosity of others.

As “Fist” stated, it is likely that this helpful attitude is somewhere in our genes for the purposes he stated. To assist in the survival of the species.
The only part that I might possibly question is the “Quid pro Quo,” idea, in other words the idea of doing it for the possible future benefit of the one helping out. Although I can also see how that may be debatable if one looks at the larger picture, as in perhaps being repaid in kind through future generations.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#36138 - 03/07/10 03:02 PM Re: Ubuntu (the philosophy) [Re: Asmedious]
Adversary Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 93
I agree with the Asmodious on depositing a generous act in hopes of a future withdraw. It just seems so disingenuous. Almost has the feel of a vampire to me. I have been helped before in the past in order to attain a somewhat self-satisfactory goal by people who would not (at least directly) have benefited. I tend to exercise appreciation by sharing. But like you said, 'bum' and traveler are two different animals. I find if a bum put the hours they invest in 'spanging' into actually aiming for steady work they would be better off.
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