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#34131 - 01/17/10 03:32 PM Re: Atheistic Paganism [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Baron dHolbach Offline
member


Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
Satan was originally invented so as to be prohibitive from a RHP perspective. Taking on the title of Satanist, of course you would see Satan as a positive. It's all a matter of opposing a life-denying faith. I wouldn't even call Satan normative, but that's a matter of opinion.


In my case, I took up the Satan symbol because LaVey did. It wasn't, for me, so much a movement away from Christianity, as a movement toward LaVey. The Satanic Bible shook my world. I didn't immediately take it all on board as my own, but it haunted me, and over time it became my dominant philosophical framework. If LaVey had used Loki instead, I'd be calling myself a Lokian. If he had used Ahriman, I'd be an Ahrimanian. Really I'm a LaVeyan.

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In viking-era Scandinavia the trickster archetype was as valid a deity as any other. Notions of good and evil were less interesting than 'successful' and 'unsuccessful'. You prayed to the deity who would assist you in your endeavours, and by praying you subconsciously attuned yourself to the traits associated with it. There are numerous sagas where the hero does things which in any contemporary story would make him the villain. The worship of the Norse pantheon could be compared to modern Satanism only in terms of rejecting good and evil as valid qualities. Other than that, we're still dealing with a RHP religion, whereby you prostrate yourself before the divine.


The Asatruar don't prostrate themselves. What they do is more of a business deal. I scratch your back, you scratch mine. But even that is more than I would do, since I don't consider the deities to have any kind of existence on the Objective.

If I feared memetic contamination, I wouldn't use the Satan symbol. Consider its full memetic import if all of it is taken on board. Satan tempts people to sin so God will be pissed and consign these sinners to everlasting damnation in a torture pit. Does that have anything at all to do with LaVeyan Satanism? No. LaVey decontaminated the symbol. This is what I do with any symbol I use. I decontaminate it. For me, Thor is warrior prowess and fighting spirit, period. He is potential within myself, because I say so, which is all that matters when I am doing GBM.

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Just because the Åsatru means you subscribe to blood vengeance does not mean it's LHP. It means you *accept*. I'm not saying you do these things, but bear in mind that these are man-made deities, which each had an express purpose.


This is why I didn't, and don't, call myself an Asatruar. It would be false of me to call myself that. I take on the symbols whenever I wish, but I don't take on the religion. The religion is RHP. The symbols themselves are neutral, neither RHP nor LHP. The handedness of the path is determined by the use to which the symbol is put.

I could create an analogue to LaVey's philosophy, founded on all the very same principles, one hundred percent LHP, one hundred percent Atheist, one hundred percent amoral, one hundred percent hedonist, one hundred percent anti-stupidity, and I could do this while employing an Odinist symbology. Odin, in fact, makes a great symbol for empiricism, and empiricism is the root of all else. From the root of empiricism grows a stem of materialism, a branch of Atheism, a fruit of amorality. If LaVey had written from the perspective I am imagining in this paragraph, and had titled his book The Odinic Bible, I would be calling myself an Odinist right now, and by that I would really mean, LaVeyan.

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Is masturbation really worthwhile to you, or is it a valve to siphon off pressure?


It is worthwhile because it is a valve to siphon off pressure.

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The arts of seduction and manipulation are worthwhile, and those orgasms are worthwhile. Shaking hands with the governor of love is pleasing, but hardly rewarding in a greater sense.


I think you're saying masturbation is less worthwhile for me than, say, karate. I would agree with that. I have a hierarchy of pleasures. Kicking the heavy bag with explosive force so the thing dances - that is more pleasing to me than masturbation. But one thing being less worthwhile than another doesn't make the first worthless. Smaller worth isn't the same as zero worth.

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As for mastering/avoiding/submitting to memes, I have a simple rule in this regard: I don't care for My Little Pony. It may be fun for my daughter, but I find it tedious. I could use names or expressions from that show to manipulate my daughter into eating her greens or cleaning up her mess, but the meme is as annoying to me as ever. Never would I use that meme as a means to my own betterment.


Neither would I. Annoying memes are, well, annoying!

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Now, imagine that all theism is as relevant to me as My Little Pony. Except more annoying.

Why would I want to master such a meme?


You wouldn't. Nor would I. If you go back and re-read the last sentence of my original post, you'll see that I anticipated this line of reasoning.

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I have invented religions for kicks, and there was always an idiot ready to believe in it. It could be a tool for mass control, but who in their right mind would want to be king of the sheep?


Well, not me, but if someone wanted to be king of the sheep, then LBM would be the way to do it, and if My Little Pony was the most efficient strategy, then ride, pony, ride! But only if it wasn't annoying.

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Letting such notions into your head makes you susceptible to them.


That's your main argument, I think. You want to avoid memetic contamination. That's a legitimate position. I just don't hold to it, because I view myself as fortified against the dangers by virtue of my Atheism, and by virtue of what I actually do with the symbols. I neither pray, nor kneel, nor sacrifice, nor obey. I use the symbol as an imaginative container for my own ritualistic apotheosis.
_________________________
The baboon is the soul of man.



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#34132 - 01/17/10 03:43 PM Re: Atheistic Paganism [Re: Morgan]
Baron dHolbach Offline
member


Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
It would seem that your use of various myths during rites is closer to chaos magic.


What I share with chaos magicians is my willingness to use and do whatever works, because it works. If dressing up like Big Bird would accomplish my purpose, then I would do it.

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Most Satanist's associate pagan beliefs with the wiccian hippie culture.


I've noticed that, yes. I don't have that association with respect to Norse myths because I've always been a fan of them. If anything, I associate Norse myths with Marvel Comics, and the godly super-hero Thor.

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Do whatever works for you during rites,


Good advice for anyone, I think.

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but if it is a matter of a sustained belief in "god type figures" then you are more along the lines of back to worshiping some god on your knees.


I agree. Fortunately I split reality into Objective and Subjective, and I relegate deity symbols, indeed any symbols, including Satan and the inverted Pentagram and the face of Baphomet, to the Subjective exclusively. They exist in my imagination and they do what I tell them to do, because I tell them to do it, because it's all happening in my imagination, where I am the sole authority.
_________________________
The baboon is the soul of man.



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