Page 2 of 5 <12345>
Topic Options
#34861 - 01/31/10 09:26 AM Re: Don't fear the reaper... [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
Like MawhrinSkel, I don’t believe in a literal Satan/Set. There was a time when I did, just like there was a time when I believed in God. But after giving the matter careful consideration, I concluded that both were figments of my imagination.

I have nothing against believers except when they attempt to push their beliefs on me or make statements to the effect of, I’m blind and/or afraid of “the truth” because I don’t share their beliefs.

Ultimately, I don’t concern myself much with the possible existence of metaphysical entities. I'd rather concern myself with what I know, and what I know is that I have the power to change my own life. I see tangible proof of this on a daily basis. Therefore I focus my efforts on myself, on making my life better by making smart decisions. It’s simple, and it works.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

Top
#34862 - 01/31/10 10:22 AM Re: Don't fear the reaper... [Re: William Wright]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Yeah. Scared to death myself. Invisible friends make me really fearful and shake in "trembling awe."

I deal in realities. Things that make me feel fearful are few and damned far in between, and some "god" or "being" or "vibration" or any other such intangible just isn't going to do it.

I really don't care what others believe in, because what ever gets them through the night is what they need in their lives. But the need to project that same need on others is absolutely no different than the Bible-thumping Christian who damns all that don't believe that Jesus is the son of God and you are doomed if you don't believe. It's the same need that you can see in any schoolyard bully to impose his will upon others.

I generally tended to ignore bullshit from schoolyard bullies too.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#34864 - 01/31/10 11:05 AM Re: Force in Nature - Powers of Darkness [Re: GodIsAMyth]
Baron dHolbach Offline
member


Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
Re-reading some pages in The Satanic Bible, I found these sentences I had forgotten about:

"Most Satanists do not accept Satan as an anthropomorphic being with cloven hooves, a barbed tail, and horns. He merely represents a force in nature - the powers of darkness which have
been named just that because no religion has taken these forces out of the darkness."

[Book of Lucifer - Hell, the Devil, and How to Sell your Soul - The Infernal Names.]

That works for me. A force in nature - the powers of darkness. Not someone you could have a conversation with, except as part of a ritual, or a dream, or an acid trip, any of which could be potent in your life, but all of which would be creations of your brain under special conditions.

One way (but not the only way) to think of that force in nature - the powers of darkness would be as the seven vital principles (deadly sins): vanity, envy, lust, gluttony, greed, malice, sloth. Ritual magic would then be a tool for kindling those principles, fanning the flames, basking in the heat, and igniting one's arrows to be shot at the closed gates in one's life, the better to break through them.
_________________________
The baboon is the soul of man.



Top
#34868 - 01/31/10 03:12 PM Re: Force in Nature - Powers of Darkness [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
On the subject of "the dark force in nature" the Dark Doctrines Crew have written a lot about it. It isn't LaVeyan but LaVey himself appreciated their writings and even gave some of them high degrees within his church (even though the main people, Jantsang and Marsh, weren't even members). I highly recomend these writings. Stay out of the ranting that Tani Jantsang does from time to time though. The stuff you can buy is the best ones but there are good stuff for free as well on the http://apodion.com/vad/ website.
Top
#34870 - 01/31/10 04:08 PM Step right up! [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2576
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
It seems that this statement of mine:

 Originally Posted By: M.A.A.
To persons unable to perceive Set, it is least troubling to dismiss him [and the other neteru] as mere figments of imagination. I don't mind that. What are dangerous are those who can't see, but are afraid of those they suspect do.

in Valor's post above has attracted yet another chorus of anxious satanatheism. Relax, people; you fit into the "I don't mind that" part of the quote. "Set" is just the ancient Egyptian representation of the Principle according to which each one of us possesses and exercises a unique sense of isolate self consciousness and the perspective & discretion which inherently follow from that. Setians call that the Gift of Set. The 1966-75 Church of Satan called it the Black Flame. The Greeks called it the Promethean Fire. JudæoChristians call it the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. You can call it anything or nothing as pleases you, as long as you don't scare the cats.

The second part of my quote refers to those (of whom I have met more than a few over the years) who suspect that I might actually be onto something, and for complex reasons are very afraid of seeing it in themselves. The usual solution is to silence, discredit, distort, defame, or kill me. The irony, of course, is that this would not change a thing. The Gift of Set exists in each sentient consciousness; the only way to destroy it is by drinking the Kheft.

I will admit [and this is part of the reason I have visited 600C more than I originally anticipated] that I am fascinated by the "satanatheist paradox": Here are many atheists/materialists who pounce furiously on the merest whiff of anything supernatural, yet just as adamantly can't seem to fulfill themselves without clutching at Satan, the eminently-supernatural J/C Devil, whom they scurry to rationalize into metaphor as adroitly as the Mask resculptures balloons.

In this satanatheists differ from Judæo/Islamic/Christians only [and certainly fortunately] in that the latter feel compelled to pray, flagellate, penance, mutilate, or otherwise crush "It" out of themselves. I'd rather watch the talented and ingenious balloon-artistry anyday.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#34872 - 01/31/10 05:01 PM Re: Step right up! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Quote:
The second part of my quote refers to those (of whom I have met more than a few over the years) who suspect that I might actually be onto something, and for complex reasons are very afraid of seeing it in themselves.

So... Are you?


As for having lived for this quite short time (20years) I know I became aware of many phallacies and lies everyone likes to swallow. It has always been part of my nature to laugh away the statements of others whom were purely based on pure emotions and "feelings".

This part of my nature is the main reason why I look down on all things with a scent of "god".
As you said "Satanatheist paradox". A more general reason for this "Atheist paradox" is that the most sane thing to do is looking reality straight into the face, taking the sum of all things which can be seen/measured and which are known.
Atheist or theist, in the end, is but a set of mind.
And with a little bit of trickery, everything can be turned backwards or be justified.. on the condition the will and/or minds agree.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#34873 - 01/31/10 05:42 PM Re: Step right up! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3895
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

I am fascinated by the "satanatheist paradox": Here are many atheists/materialists who pounce furiously on the merest whiff of anything supernatural, yet just as adamantly can't seem to fulfill themselves without clutching at Satan

You seem to be hung up on some sort of mental false bifurcation you have constructed for yourself. You divide everyone into two classifications, that of theist and Atheist,assume those are both bedrock and meaningful designations, and further you seem to infer preset behaviors and beliefs 'atheists' should hold. There is nothing new about any of this, as in my experience these views are typical of a theistic mindset.

The hitch is that 'Atheist' is a meaningless designation. The word only has any relevance when viewed in contrast to a supernatural belief of some sort. As the non believer generally relegates such a belief to a passing side note, defining oneself in contrast to it seems a bit silly at best.

With that said, the Satanist is only an 'athiest in black robes'
to one who holds theistic beliefs as relevant or important. I certainly do not.

I could follow this with yet another explanation of the relevance of the Satan/adversary figure, how it relates to 'us', and the many reasons why people like myself and others have claimed it as our own, but frankly I see no benefit in doing so.

It is blatantly obvious to those of the right sort, and completely alien to others.

_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#34875 - 01/31/10 06:37 PM Re: Step right up! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Apion Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 18
Hi Dr. Aquino,

Here are a few issues I got tied up on regarding Set's conscious independence. How does a personality operate without a "lens" (such as the physical body) to focus it into consensus reality? Sensory deprivation comes to mind on how the mind stops working smoothly without sensory input. "Where" is Set's mind located (as an extension to that question)?

The best explanation (which you've touched on) seems to equate Him with that ever present Witness that experiences all other objects in the universe (including the bodymind), that is to say the authentic Identity of all sentient beings. On track?

Top
#34877 - 01/31/10 06:48 PM Re: Step right up! [Re: Apion]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I'm going to have to agree with Dan here. This shit is starting to get real old. Aquino, you are nothing but a shit disturber. You ass is still chapped about something that happened over 20 years ago. GET OVER IT. Maybe you are just scared of being forgotten so you are trying to convince people that you still hold any relevance. I must say that I am not sure that you ever did. You continue to blatantly mock members of this site - hiding behind your smileys and Star Wars references because you really have nothing to say. If anyone else were to continually mock "us" the way you do you can bet your ass they would be shown the door. Apparently people seem to think you are special and therefore allowed certain privileges. I, for one, do not agree. And if this post gets me in "trouble" then so be it; a man can only take so much.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#34878 - 01/31/10 06:57 PM Re: Step right up! [Re: Dan_Dread]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1738
Loc: New York
I’m not sure which of Dr. Aquino’s categories I might fall under, since I tend to side 98 percent with Atheistic Satanism. That other 2 percent is a cautious curiosity of sorts.

The reason being, if anyone other then Dr. Aquino was making the statements that he makes, I would be able to dismiss them totally.
However, I find him to be of very high intelligence, and someone who has achieved considerable success in life. That “mustard seed” of curiosity therefore was implanted by the personal character of the one who makes a claim that I find so far outside of reality. I have no qualms in expressing that he has achieved in both personal success and learning much more then I.
Yet in no way do I fear him, “Set,” or any of his or Setian ideas.

On the other hand, there are people who follow the RHP, who I believe to be also highly intelligent, and successful, yet when it comes to their “Spiritual” beliefs, I can easily dismiss those beliefs, because they register in my brain as so “far out there,” while at the same time I still have the ability to respect their tangible achievements, and intelligence in areas outside of their spiritual beliefs.

The only concern that I am aware of having, is that the organic material that I am working with (my brain) does NOT easily dismiss him. I am aware of how a brain can be influenced by the ideas of other brains and I am always on guard against some malfunction in my software.

I strongly believe that there is no way that I would ever believe the claims of “Setiens,” or any other Theistic individuals, but I cannot dismiss the idea that they might be onto something that perhaps even they are only scratching the surface of. Things which some day might have a scientific explanation.

I also don’t believe that rituals of any kind can have an affect outside ones own mind, but using the same reasoning as above, I cannot completely dismiss the claims of those here whom I respect who’s names mostly appear in blue, that claim that they have achieved some results from rituals.

Although I consider myself pretty close to Atheistic as one can get, I also continue to question everything, which includes my Atheism.

So perhaps Dr. Aquino is right after all, about the fear that ‘Set’ can inflict on someone who is an Atheist, because although I do not fear the ideas, I do fear in a sense that my “software” can still be influenced to some degree by ideas which on a higher conscious level I dismiss.

Not sure if any of this makes sense, frankly I’m still trying to work it out myself.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#34887 - 01/31/10 10:17 PM Re: Step right up! [Re: Asmedious]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
6Satan6Archist6, I strongly doubt your post will get you in trouble. In fact, I commend you for it. It takes balls for you to say what you said. I sensed nothing cynical or trollish in your post. I suspect that you said what many others wanted to say. Well done.

As a former Setian, I find it unfortunate that Setian philosophy is so often reduced to LHP theism. Many Setians do not believe in Set. They do, however, believe in the concept of Xeper – which, as I understand it, is the idea that all of us have the power within ourselves to change our lives, for better or worse.

Some, such as Dr. Aquino, see Xeper as the Word of Set. I see it as simply a word that makes sense in the context of my life, like Beer and Pussy. I think it would be productive to move past the tired “Crisis of 1975” and explore the possibilities of 2010. A pipe dream, I suppose…
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

Top
#34888 - 01/31/10 10:53 PM Re: Xeper (Self-Making) [Re: Asmedious]
Baron dHolbach Offline
member


Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
I’m not sure which of Dr. Aquino’s categories I might fall under, since I tend to side 98 percent with Atheistic Satanism. That other 2 percent is a cautious curiosity of sorts.

The reason being, if anyone other then Dr. Aquino was making the statements that he makes, I would be able to dismiss them totally.


That line of reasoning approximates my rationale for visiting the Temple of Set official site and spending some time there.

Something that still draws me is the concept of Xeper - "I have become" - which constitutes the Word uttered by Doctor Aquino in establishing the Temple of Set, and which I interpret for myself as self-making.

 Quote:
Yet in no way do I fear him, “Set,” or any of his or Setian ideas.


I wouldn't know how to fear an idea, nor a person who is unlikely to stand in front of me with a gun aimed at me.

 Quote:
I strongly believe that there is no way that I would ever believe the claims of “Setiens,” or any other Theistic individuals, but I cannot dismiss the idea that they might be onto something that perhaps even they are only scratching the surface of. Things which some day might have a scientific explanation.


The deciding factor is one's theory of knowledge, one's epistemology.

Believer: I had a conversation with Belial last night.
Unbeliever: In a dream?
Believer: No, it really happened.
Unbeliever: How do I falsify your claim?
Believer: Huh? You don't. You can't.
Unbeliever: Gesundheit.
Believer: Huh?
Unbeliever: You sneezed. Or might as well have. Belched. Coughed. That's as much sense as my epistemology can make of your claim.

But in the above, it was the part about really happening that derailed the conversation. It could have gone like this instead:

Believer: I had a conversation with Belial last night.
Unbeliever: In a dream?
Believer: Yup.
Unbeliever: Cool! Did you learn something?
Believer: Yup.
Unbeliever: Neat! Tell me about it.

If we allow a dream to remain a dream, something that happened strictly on the Subjective, created entirely by the brain, epistemology doesn't get in the way, and a fruitful dialogue can commence. The claim about having had a dream can't be falsified, but in practice most empiricists are willing to accept such claims so long as the claimant has proven reliable about factual assertions in the past. After all, if you tell me you're a conscious entity, I can't falsify that claim either. Any philosophical stance, taken too far, becomes absurd, even empiricism.

 Quote:

I also don’t believe that rituals of any kind can have an affect outside ones own mind, but using the same reasoning as above, I cannot completely dismiss the claims of those here whom I respect who’s names mostly appear in blue, that claim that they have achieved some results from rituals.


Scenario One:
Joe Blow does a ritual to get some woman he has never met to call him on the phone. He doesn't do anything else. He doesn't introduce himself to the woman. He doesn't enlist the aid of a mutual friend to draw the woman's attention his way. He doesn't take some public action that would catch the woman's attention. He does nothing but the ritual.

Will that ritual work? No. Even if someone tells me that such a ritual worked, I will consider the person to be mistaken at best or possibly (hopefully not) a liar. If the woman called Joe on the phone, some causal action outside the ritual chamber had to have occurred, even if Joe doesn't know about it. Maybe the mutual friend acted behind Joe's back after Joe expressed an interest in the woman.

Scenario Two:
Joe Blow does a ritual to get some woman he has never met to go out on a date with him. He then enlists the aid of a mutual friend to introduce him to the woman. He is charming, amusing, confident, intellectually stimulating, strong. After the initial meeting he finds excuses to encounter the woman a few more times, and each time he exemplifies the same list of virtues as previously. Finally he asks the woman on a date. She accepts.

Did the ritual work? Yes. Would I have expected it to work, given Jos's assertion to me that he planned to take the above actions? Yes. Was the ritual a relevant factor? Probably. Almost certainly. The ritual hit the target (the true target) dead center. Who/what was the true target? Joe! Not the woman. Joe.

Speaking metaphorically, Satan helps those who help themselves. In this scenario, the dark forces of lust and vanity were triggered and they did their work. Joe became powerful in his goals. His darkness became engulfing and when he reached out, it engulfed the object of his desires. But he had to reach out. He had to get off his ass and do things outside the ritual chamber.
_________________________
The baboon is the soul of man.



Top
#34889 - 01/31/10 11:08 PM Re: Step right up! [Re: William Wright]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Kinda debating how to start this reply.

There is some stuff I do not agree with Aquino, and there is some stuff I do agree with.

I don't like the bashing of members because they don't follow TOS stuff, or his personal definition of Satanism. I don't go the TOS site and call anyone posers because they choose Set over Isis. Various members have expressed this as well. I just don't see the need to get into a pissing match over it. It appears the various sides will never meet and a mutual respect should continue if the posting of intelligent exchanges can continue.

I don't think the Black Flame or "The Gift of Set" exists in all men. If it's in you, it's in you. I don't think you can destroy it, maybe deny it, but not destroy it. Just like how if it's not in you, no amount of study will bring that flame to life.

People always hate, or try to destroy what they do not understand and fear.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#34891 - 02/01/10 12:00 AM "Reality" [Re: Dimitri]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2576
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Originally Posted By: M.A.A.
The second part of my quote refers to those (of whom I have met more than a few over the years) who suspect that I might actually be onto something, and for complex reasons are very afraid of seeing it in themselves.

So... Are you?

Authentic initiation is at once a thrilling and a scary experience - rather like this.

 Quote:
A more general reason for this "atheist paradox" is that the most sane thing to do is looking reality straight into the face, taking the sum of all things which can be seen/measured and which are known. Atheist or theist, in the end, is but a set of mind. And with a little bit of trickery, everything can be turned backwards or be justified.. on the condition the will and/or minds agree.

Good, now all you have to do is to establish the actual limits of "reality" and how you can detect them. More often this is an arbitrary, self-limiting attitude. That's not a put-down; indeed for most people it's psychologically necessary:

 Originally Posted By: HPL, The Call of Cthulhu
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
#34892 - 02/01/10 12:16 AM Rite you are. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2576
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
 Originally Posted By: M.A.A.

I am fascinated by the "satanatheist paradox": Here are many atheists/materialists who pounce furiously on the merest whiff of anything supernatural, yet just as adamantly can't seem to fulfill themselves without clutching at Satan ...

You seem to be hung up on some sort of mental false bifurcation you have constructed for yourself. You divide everyone into two classifications, that of theist and atheist, assume those are both bedrock and meaningful designations, and further you seem to infer preset behaviors and beliefs 'atheists' should hold. There is nothing new about any of this, as in my experience these views are typical of a theistic mindset.

Well, you either believe in gods/dæmons or you don't, right? That makes you, by non-balloon-twisting use of the English language, either a theist or an Atheist [and I wish this board would stop forcing capitals onto terms where they are misleading].

 Quote:
With that said, the Satanist is only an 'athiest in black robes'
to one who holds theistic beliefs as relevant or important. I certainly do not.

If you're an Atheist who dresses up in black robes, waves a sword at a [Baphomet] symbol of someone whom he doesn't believe exists, and chants to that same nonexistent person in a ritual ... well, you're an Atheist who enjoys, or needs, to do that. That's certainly your prerogative.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

Top
Page 2 of 5 <12345>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.029 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.