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#34977 - 02/01/10 11:15 PM Re: Step right up! [Re: Morgan]
6devil6ish6 Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/16/10
Posts: 16
Loc: australia mate
i think you have worded this response quite beautifully, and you seem to be a fair and just sort of woman, i like that. i wanted to tell you it is because of posts like this i have seen your profile and your website, so keep up the good work!!

it is nice to see a Satanist with faith in humankind.
_________________________
xxdevils.play.thingxx

visit my site
http://www.devilishlydarkculture.com

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#34982 - 02/01/10 11:47 PM Re: Step right up! [Re: 6devil6ish6]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Thank you.

There is just one problem.
I have no faith in humankind.

I see no need for "Satanist's" to get into a pissing match over shit that will never have common ground.

It just becomes a fight/discussion that no one wins and never ends. Whereby people just talk and no one listens.


Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#34988 - 02/02/10 12:51 AM Re: Step right up! [Re: Morgan]
Valor Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/27/10
Posts: 54
Loc: Coast of New England
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Thank you.
It just becomes a fight/discussion that no one wins and never ends. Whereby people just talk and no one listens.


Yes, "There are none so blind as those who will not listen" say's my sig.

When we don't listen we are a tickin' time bomb for failure. Listening is 1 half of communication. Not just a little...but 1 half! I've wisely learned to incorporate "listening" as one of my hobbies. I won't set myself up for failure by ignorance brought on by not paying attention...it's just embarressing.

"Success is going from failure to failure without any loss of enthusiasm." Winston Churchill.
_________________________
~there are none so blind as those who will not listen~

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#34991 - 02/02/10 03:23 AM Re: ... and I'm going to FIND the fucker! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
EvilDjinn Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 31
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino


The one exception to this is Set, as the neter/Form of isolate consciousness itself. In this sense to be aware of your own distinct & separate identity is simultaneously to be aware of Set [or, more primitively, "Satan"]. The only question is whether you're deliberately & sufficiently introspective enough to realize & acknowledge this.


I think the main (and important difference) is that while I recognize myself as an Individual creature, I do not see myself as "outside" of nature. I always get this sense from your writings that Set and consciousness itself is somehow outside of the natural world, that the "Gift of Set" is itself something that makes human beings, for lack of a better word, unnatural. I don't see things this way.

Of course I also don't view Set as a being with his own consciousness (aside from what is constructed inside an individual's mind).

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#34997 - 02/02/10 05:39 AM Re: Baboonopolis [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Baron dHolbach Offline
member


Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
The human mind will often make decisions based on imperatives that do not appear in the animal kingdom. Animals act on necessity (although Nietzsche would have it otherwise; according to Mad Freddy, the goal of animals is the exercise of power - cf. "Beyond Good & Evil") and ascribing animals with human motives and drives is something that should be consigned to Disney flicks.


I think ascribing humans with non-animal motives would be Disney-esque too. To me, everything sifts down to food, reproduction, territory, and dominance. What humans are amazingly productive at is layering straum onto stratum atop the primal foursome, what Freud would call sublimation. This is our glory!

Science? Knowing/discovering what someone else doesn't/hasn't sifts down to dominance. Art appreciation? Being drawn to the beautiful/handsome/fearsome sifts down to reproduction. Space exploration? Boldly going and then claiming the place for one's own sifts down to territory. Education? Endlessly digesting information sifts down to food. What our big brains have done is explode the primal foursome into a cacophony of raucus possibilities no non-human animal could imagine but which every non-human animal might be driven toward, each in its own way, if only their brains were bigger, for the one thing the human has ever been and shall ever be, is an animal. King of beasts! That is man.

Much of what I've posted here thus far has been my attempt to put my finger on the right symbol/metaphor/archetype to energize/animate my ritual magic, as it had become stale. When I go back and re-read some of my key posts, I see the swinging of a pendulum, or rather two: one pendulum swings between indulgence and prudence, the other between pleasure and power. These dichotomies collapse into the primal foursome, food and reproduction and territory and dominance, the baboon within. Now in the fictional universe of my ritual magic I am the Egyptian god Babi.

This newfound clarity informs my signature, obviously, and has also opened up The Satanic Bible for me, and Satan himself, and the seven deadly sins. I'm still the same man I was before (Satanist born) but I'm stronger now because I'm clearer (Satanist self-made). I think you relate to that, MawhrinSkel.


Edited by Baron dHolbach (02/02/10 05:42 AM)
_________________________
The baboon is the soul of man.



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#35023 - 02/02/10 02:43 PM Re: Baboonopolis [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
For the record, I enjoy your TL;DR ramblings... they're neither TL and it's not often I DR them \:\)
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
I know this is starting to sound like theistic nonsense, but really I'm just trying to find the borders of epistemiology. What can we find? What can we *know*?

That's exactly where I am. Every time I think I've found the precipice someone steps up to educate me of my mistake in thinking that.
Since we’re all kind of waxing tangentially here, I remember first learning of the periodic table and how all things in the physical realm are essentially definable by that. We don’t know what’s going on at the sub atomic level, but of what we can identify, I thought it rather astounding that my own body shared elemental components with all things on planet Earth… including my neighbor’s ’87 Yugo. Naturally, I then began to wonder about things that are intangible such as emotion and consciousness. Of what are they made? If all things in the physical realm are essentially comprised of the same components then how can we be certain that we don’t share emotional connections and or other imperceptible connections with things (maybe even non living things) other than us?
It was around then that I found Kierkegaard who completely blew my doors off with things like:

 Originally Posted By: Kierkegaard
The supreme paradox of all thought is the attempt to discover something that thought cannot think. A conscious human knows something and he knows that he knows it (ad infinitum). The paradox of consciousness is not that we are aware of ourselves but of other things as well, including those that do not constitute the 'real world'. Of course, when we 'conceive' or imagine something 'unreal' even our farthest imagination cannot transcend 'known' symbolism, which is why there are some things that defy definition. One of these is 'consciousness' itself.

I’m pretty much at the point where I view ‘reality’ as a Venn diagram of overlapping experience. Of course it’s evident that there is a ‘real ‘ and tangible world (universe) we just don’t know exactly what it is or how big it is. What’s not evident is the sheer volume of ways to experience it as each individual is a unique filter on the universe.
As for linking this all to Satanism I think that people who quest in this manner are daily eating from the tree of knowledge. I often feel myself afraid to look further or to understand the larger implications of what I know and what I don’t know. It would be really easy to ‘drop anchor’, adopt one of the earth’s static religions and simply stop thinking about things because ‘seeing’ can be a curse to those not wired to accept what they find. I know I’ll never stop trying to connect the dots. I know I’m ‘damned’ in my Grail Quest but that’s precisely how I’m wired.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#35042 - 02/02/10 07:12 PM Re: Baboonopolis [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Baron dHolbach Offline
member


Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
I would not claim that humans aren't animals (we are!), but our tendency toward *conscious thought* as a part of our decision-making process is something apparently unique to us. I say 'apparently', since experiments have shown both dolphins and orangoutans to display similar kinds of decision-making abilities and capacity for abstract thinking.


The book Sperm Whales by Hal Whitehead is serious science and ends up hinting pretty strongly that sperm whales may in fact be fully sapient, as that may be the best explanation for some of their behaviors.

 Quote:
Essentially, what I'm getting at is that our intelligence is not really unique in *nature*, but to the best of our knowledge, it is the best-developed version of conscious thought.


That's why we're the king of beasts!

 Quote:
Another yard-stick is required, and the capacity for abstract thought and creativity spring to mind. Problem-solving is also an aspect of this.


Unless sperm whales can do it too, we are the only animals that can create a parallel universe in our heads, and then populate that parallel universe with marvels. We've been doing this for quite a while, too. Myth-making and magical thinking were the earliest forms of it. These evolved into all the arts and all the sciences.

But I want to distinguish between what we do, on the one hand, and why we do it on the other. What we do is far beyond the capabilities of, say, the baboon. But why we do it, in my view, isn't. Even as we probe reality with our microscopes and telescopes, we're looking ultimately for sublimated versions of good food to eat, hotties to fuck, stuff to have, and ways to be better than the next guy. Or else we're looking for the flip side of all that, the goal of the deer or rabbit instead of the wolf or lion, the escape from danger. What is danger? It is something that wants to eat you or fuck you against your will or kick you out of its territory or make you accept your inferiority to it.

 Quote:
My contention is that the entire visualization of the 'needs' pyramid is fundamentally flawed, in that it doesn't taper to a point at the end. Rather, I would say that it branches out to a myriad of explanatory models, since we - when all needs are satisfied - seek to understand, acknowledge and/or control our surroundings by whatever current paradigm we hold.


I think that's similar to what I'm saying. Sublimations expand geometrically outward from the initial core of basic animal drives. The possibilities are open-ended. It's very much analogous to how the physical universe is built up in all its wondrous complexity out of the four fundamental forces, the strong, weak, gravitational, and electromagnetic. Similarly, the human matrix of things to pursue is built up in all its wondrous complexity out of the four fundamental forces in the psyche, the drives for food, reproduction, territory, and dominance, with the flip side of running away from something else that wants to use you for one of those purposes, similar to how electricity has a positive or negative charge.

 Quote:
My main bone of contention with all faith is that it says "Don't Question".


Quoth Saint Augustine: "There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is the disease of curiosity."

I agree that a statement like that is among the most contemptible a religionist could utter.

 Quote:
I have a pretty good idea of my own needs, and they involve some kind of cognitive apotheosis, which may or may not be beyond me. It's rewarding to reach for it, though, so no matter what lies beyond the horizon, it'll be an utter and complete blast to find out. Maybe it'll be soul-destroyingly horrible, but at least I reached for it.


Have you had any successes yet? What would success look/feel like?

 Quote:

I know this is starting to sound like theistic nonsense, but really I'm just trying to find the borders of epistemology. What can we find? What can we *know*? These are questions animals don't feel the need to ask, since they don't have our consciousness.


True. Animals ask questions, of course. But not abstract ones. Except, maybe, sperm whales.

 Quote:
The mind cannot exist without the body, and the body is useless without the mind. To say that the mind has a discrete existence beyond the physical world is true in one sense, false in the other. The mind seems real to us. It seems to live. Re: the soul. Brain surgery shows us that fiddling around with your two pounds of gray matter can have adverse effects upon your mind. The mind is a product of your brain and other physical attributes of your body. This doesn't directly indicate that your mind dies when your body does, but we have little evidence to indicate that it can hold discrete existence.


So all we can do is assume death is final, and make no claims to the contrary. Then, if it turns out that we pass through death to some other form of existence, we will finally have empirical evidence - and no one living will ever know! It'll be like being a newspaper reporter who has the scoop of the millenium and no one will print it! \:\)

By assuming death is final, we live our lives in the best possible way. We live! We eat, fuck, have, conquer, at every level of complexity from the simian to the supreme.
_________________________
The baboon is the soul of man.



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#35044 - 02/02/10 08:00 PM Re: Baboonopolis [Re: Baron dHolbach]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
A number of years ago, I wrote an essay comparing and contrasting Maslows' theory of Self-Actualization with LaVeys' theory of Modern Satanism.

You can find it here at one of my websites:
http://www.morganhell666.com


"One of the great struggles that one encounters in life is the struggle to achieve something more. The inner drive or force of will that separates an individual from the crowd. It is the realization that one is not happy in a simple content existence. It is the recognized inner struggle to progress and proceed forward towards being and accomplishing all that is possible for that individual to achieve. It is also taking this gained knowledge and understanding when is the best possible time to use it. Abraham Maslows' theory of self-actualization states that, "Self-actualization is a never ending process that moves in a dynamic sequence upward through a continuum. The higher the individual processes, the more "profound happiness, serenity, and richness of the inner life" he or she finds"(1). Anton LaVeys' book the Satanic Bible, explains his theories and philosophy of living and succeeding as an individual in todays' world. LaVey states that, "One of the magician's greatest weapons is knowing himself; his talents, abilities, physical attractions and detractions, etc., and when, where, and with whom to utilize them!"(2)........."


I don't like being compared to apes and monkeys. Too many Planet of the Apes movies. What's that line Heston says, "Get your damn paws off me, you damn dirty ape."

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#35064 - 02/03/10 01:05 PM Re: Baboonopolis [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Zorg Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 44
Loc: A Galaxy Far, Far Away
MawhrinSkel...what you are describing I call "walking on water". It is interesting to watch people use all of their resources to tread water or drown while feeling as if you are walking on top of things. Mind set is key. And, as some threads seems to indicate, there is that "extra something" in certain folks. I've always assumed it was a strong will.
_________________________
"The average person thinks he isn’t" Father Lorenzoni

"Plato was a bore."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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#35067 - 02/03/10 02:34 PM Re: Baboonopolis [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Baron dHolbach Offline
member


Registered: 12/29/09
Posts: 162
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
As to the Baron's question of what transcendence looks or feels like, I'd say it makes a world of difference in every aspect of your life. It can literally be seen on your face and in your eyes. It feels like you are at home in your own skin, at least that's how it feels right now. I think it's a combination of feelings commonly considered 'negative' and feelings commonly considered 'positive'. Neither label is correct. Your mind essentially moves beyond good and bad (or good & evil), and you are free to perceive the world as it truly is.


Sounds very Zen. Happiness through clarity. Not what I thought you would say, as I expected apotheosis to be something more bombastic. Nor had I thought to apply the beyond good and evil concept as a solution to the problem of how to achieve calm. Yet I see the path to it. If we accept that all is random, that no deity is pulling the strings of fate, then we cut ourselves free from any expectation that the universe will cater to our whims, and we jettison any possibility of victim mentality. Victim of what? Random chance?
_________________________
The baboon is the soul of man.



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#35070 - 02/03/10 03:26 PM Re: Baboonopolis [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Zorg Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 44
Loc: A Galaxy Far, Far Away
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
Like I said, it's an ongoing process. Claiming this is an end-state would be myopic of me. I can't even tell if any further developments would be subjectively positive or negative, only that they'd matter to me.



Take it from an oldster...there IS no end-state...except death.
Just when you say, "look Ma! No hands!", life throws a big rock your way, and it's tumble city...and time to get back up and learn the new lessons. School ain't NEVER out, in spite of what Alice Cooper thinks. ;\)
_________________________
"The average person thinks he isn’t" Father Lorenzoni

"Plato was a bore."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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#107327 - 06/25/16 12:24 PM Re: I have questions... [Re: GodIsAMyth]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
 Quote:
I read the Satanic Bible (a long time ago). I agreed with all of the Nine Satanic Statements as well as the The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth. I have always felt like I should be a Satanist, but have never committed myself to it.


There's nothing in the Nine Satanic Statements or the 11 Satanic rules of the earth that are inherently satanic. It's like a big floppy dong flapping about in the Satanist's face that no one seems to notice or mind.

What you're dealing with are tropes. Nothing more. Think about this way: Strike out “Satan represents” and replace it with any random thing – “Nationalism represents”, for example. Would you still agree with these statements? Well then congratulations! You're a natural born Nationalist. Screw what nationalism actually means! You've read it in the Nationalist's Bible by Avon publishing, so that's all that matters.
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

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#107328 - 06/25/16 05:54 PM Re: I have questions... [Re: antikarmatomic]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1147
Loc: San Diego, CA
And this topic needed a bump why?

Let's not make the agenda too clear. You say there is nothing inherently Satanic, why not just commit at this point and say:

We're all born in a 'certain' image and Satan represents that which corrupts it."

Still, your point is valid, "(national socialism) represents responsibility to the responsible".

Let the sinister 4th Reich be upon us all.


Edited by CanisMachina42 (06/25/16 06:13 PM)
Edit Reason: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Dgfsi9I7NHI

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#107329 - 06/25/16 06:22 PM Re: I have questions... [Re: CanisMachina42]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
 Originally Posted By: CM
And this topic needed a bump why? 
Yeah, cause that's totally what I do: search for the most relevant topics to bump like how magic outcomes could just be coincidence. Grits and shiggles have nothing at all to do with it.

 Originally Posted By: CM
 You say there is nothing inherently Satanic, why not just commit at this point and say, "we're all born in a certain image and Satan represents that which corrupts it." 
I say? I am tossing out the crazy idea that words have, like, actual meanings.

You still seem to be of the impression that simply because I'm capable of reading a dictionary I must somehow be “opposed” to what the word means in principle - like some sort of oncologist who can't bear to see children suffer. That part's all in your head, dude. A direct approach, no matter how uncomfy its implications may be for you, is still less nonsensical than prancing around all like “I don't like what this word means, I want it to mean something else”
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

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#107330 - 06/25/16 07:29 PM Re: I have questions... [Re: antikarmatomic]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1147
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
I don't like what this word means, I want it to mean something else”


This is true for me, and considerably more so when it's made one of opposing and separate forces.

IMO Satan (as nature) is part of a duality like hot water, A polarization that is an attribute of an equilibrium which only needs itself to exist.

In this analogy would cold water be like god? No, as it has the same molecular structure, just in a less excited state.


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