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#34576 - 01/25/10 10:58 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Morgan]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
Morgan and I dont see eye to eye on many things... BUT she is 100% correct on that. The CoS has little patience and/or tolerance if you dont follow their instructions 100%.

If you are on this site, there is a good chance you will be kicked from the CoS. Why? Because of many things....

1. The CoS has a ZERO Tolerance for Dr. Michael Aquino and the Temple of Set and since he is an active member here, they dont want CoS members interacting at all.

2. Peter Gilmore has repeatedly insulted Zeena and Karla LaVey on a personal level, and flat out called them both unintelligent. (now Zeena has a long list of flaws.... but stupidity is not one of them, and Karla has done nothing against the CoS except to have some personal issues with Blanche Barton) and since Karla LaVey is discussed on this site, and advertises on it... they want you to stay away...

BASICALLY Peter Gilmore and Blanche Barton, want you to stay away from ANY satanic discussions and views that they cannot 100% control and censor. They cannot control this site, and dont want CoS members to hear anything that contradicts their points of view!

Check out the CoS boards! If you bring up LaVeys personal life (his REAL personal life, not the myth he liked to tell) they will close the thread, end the discussion and boot you. If you speak against the TOV, you are in trouble. If you discuss Karla, Zeena, Stanton or Aquino, you are in trouble. If you are critical of the CoS in any way, you are gone....

Its a real shame, because Gilmore is a bright man.... just not bright enough to deal with any views that are not reflections of his own.

And for the book? Anyone who really thinks its a good book, should just really look into it deeper. Most of the good material, did not originate from Gilmore, and most of his material, is reprinted from older stuff. He pretty much tossed in some old essays and writings he did, and a lot of LaVey material that wasnt in book form, and called it a new book. Its not awful, its just pointless... other than the fact that it looks nice.

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#34581 - 01/26/10 12:49 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: 111Cal]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
I am another one who either got banned or got a hostile welcome at the CoS boards (can't remeber which - it was a long time ago and before my 600club account).

In my case I wanted to deep of a disussion and I actually wanted to question things (you know part of the most important principle in Satanism).

At that board they seem to be happy to answer the same newbie questions over and over again but as soon as anyone differ in opinion to Gilmore, if they question to much or if they show signs or starting an intellectual discussion they are banned.

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#34582 - 01/26/10 12:58 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
Apion Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 18
LttD is Ventrue's own production, essentially for entertainment. So if he doesn't like you or what you have to say, you're out. I think interactions on there is giving most folks the image that the C/S is a heavily censored organization.

Morgan,

Do you have examples?

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#34585 - 01/26/10 01:32 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Apion]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: "111cal"

Check out the CoS boards! If you bring up LaVeys personal life (his REAL personal life, not the myth he liked to tell) they will close the thread, end the discussion and boot you.

I am certainly no big supporter of the CoS, but the fact that they don't want to see a dead mans name dragged through the mud seems to me indicative of class. Heard of it?
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#34593 - 01/26/10 07:34 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Dan_Dread]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
1. Noone is talking about dragging LaVey through the mud. ANY discussion of anything that doesnt "follow the mythical line" is killed at once. If you discuss LaVeys REAL history, they can you. Admitting that his life wasnt the Tall Tale that he told, is not dragging him through the mud. Discussing Dr. Aquino is not dragging him through the mud. Discussing either of his daughters (Whom he loved dearly, EVEN after Zeena betrayed him) is not dragging him through the mud. Gilmore has created a revisionist history of the CoS and if anyone questions it, you are banned.

Ive seen people banned for mentioning his birth name! Or for even mentioning that Karla LaVey has a church. Its just silly and it falls into the same sort of self-righteous hypocrisy that Gilmore loves to complain about "Mainstream" religons have!

Sort of like Christians protesting a movie they dont like, or Muslims wanting to kill Salman Rushdie for a book they dont like....

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#34596 - 01/26/10 08:35 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
I am not sure which reply you are responding to, but I will jump in. Its not simply that Gilmore doesnt want to question LaVeys history, its ANY point of view that he doesnt agree with! If you even mention Karla LaVey or Michael Aquino, they will kick you from the site!

If you were to admit that you actually emailed Dr. Aquino on a site like this? you would have your pretty red card revoked at once! If you even mention ANY OPPOSING POINTS OF VIEW in Satanism, they will kick you out. He is NOT trying to preserve LaVeys "legacy" he is trying to censor any type of OPEN and HONEST Satanic discussion, debates or dialog.

The CoS wants you to think that the CoS is the ONLY valid point of view in Satanism.... that Aquino is a nutjob, that Karla LaVey is a stupid spoiled brat, that Diane LaVey was of NO importance, that LaVey believed EXACTLY as Gilmore now says he does (without any regard to what LaVey actual believed!) and that is what I object to.

Gilmore and Barton to a lesser degree, have attempted to rewrite history... picking and choosing what to change. They contradict some of LaVeys viewpoints to fit their own agenda. They have "pet project" grottos that are pretty much vampire-goth-fetishists, that they adore because of personal friendships.

The current CoS is almost unrecognizable to anyone who was around when LaVey was alive.

As for the history of LaVey? Its a valid topic to discuss. And YES, anyone who is a satanist, will naturally have an interest in his life... just as a Christian would be interested in the life of one of the apostles, or a catholic would be interested in the life of Pope John Paul II. I do not think it diminishes LaVeys accomplishments to look at his "Real" life at all. The myths he created about himself are amusing and fun and all, but TRUTH Is the highest goal, and its far more interesting to know the truth.

Gilmore is not a bad guy, he just has an ego the size of Europe and surrounds himself with Yes men, who tell him how great he is.

Satanism should be an open and honest "religon" as opposed to the hipocrsy of the mainstream religons. Satanists should not be herded like sheep and told what to think and not think, and what we can and cannot discuss, and who we can and cannot interact with. The CoS has morphed into what it was created to be opposed to! They have become nothing more than another religon that tries to control its members with threats, fear and lies!

And that is a shame....

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#34597 - 01/26/10 08:36 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: 111Cal]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
PS and how would it alter Satanism in any way???? Well the free flow of ideas and discussions with opposing points of view, helps to enlighten us all and expose us to new ways of thinking and that is how we learn and evolve.

Satanism should have choices... and more than 1 voice should be allowed to be heard.

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#34601 - 01/26/10 09:20 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
Its not a question of "what do I need" from the CoS at all... its simply a matter of the CoS now being morphed into the exact opposite of what it was intended to be. And that matters.

Do I need to use the CoS and its boards to learn about LaVey? Of course not, but thats not the point. The point is that by handling things the way they do, they dishonor the legacy of LaVey. Its not the truth about his life that cheapens his memory, its people like Gilmore trying to rewrite history to feed his ego and agenda that cheapens Laveys memory.

And I think that matters. Gilmore is not a bad guy, in fact in our limited contacts he has always been polite and friendly and gracious. But he simply is doing harm to the CoS, and making a mess that might never be able to be cleaned up in the process.

So, I guess you are right in a way... it really doesnt matter... EXCEPT for the fact that its "un-satanic" in the strictest sense of the word and that that type of censorship and strict "commandments" are against everything LaVey worked to build.

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#34604 - 01/26/10 09:29 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Maw, it pretty much boils down to the idea that many people have that it's their right to stick their noses into anything. Even things that are none of their business.

The same thing that makes people fascinated by The Batchelor or The Bad Girl's Club or Celebrity Gossip on TV. They need to feel like they're somehow involved in whatever goes on, so they can kvetch about things instead of actually doing something USEFUL with their lives.

Hell... why should Lady Diane or Karla come on and subject themselves to a scrutiny by some faceless name on a computer screen. Do people think that they're really that desperate to become part of the freak show that surrounds the whole thing? Do people really think that they have the right to invade the privacy of people simply to satisfy their own maudlin curiosities? Both of these ladies have better things to do... and so SHOULD the dolts who would be pulling them into their own sleazy world.

Hell... scandals happen. Divorces happen. Life happens. GET OVER IT! Dr. Aquino can tell you for a fact how utterly stupid people can get demanding to know about your personal life because of the very real problems he's had with people doing the exact same thing. Forty years on, people are still hashing it out on the web.

I know! Let's get Lilith in here to dig into the dirt. Let's see if she ever had sex with the mascot of a major sports franchise! Let's ask her if she and her hubby ever do x, y, or z with vegetables.

Kind of ridiculous, isn't it? Of course it is. But there ARE scandals that he could be asked about. You notice that I don't ask him. Why? Because it's none of my fucking business. If nothing else, I prefer not to contribute to the declasse societal condition that would even suggest it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. "Some people's actions prove Lenin was right when he said we are heading towards a classless society, because people definitely can show that they have no class."
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#34605 - 01/26/10 09:35 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Jake999]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
Actually... I started this thread as a review of the Satanic Scriptures book... and have no idea how we ended up here... ha ha ha
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#34606 - 01/26/10 09:36 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
Hey, you're not alone in your thoughts regarding the church, but life is too short to bother. You know he established something great. That's all that matters. If the rest of the world, and particularly the C/S, chooses to disregard what he intended, let them at it. There is no way it changes the truth. If Gilmore is a revisionist, let him at it. He could say Anton had three penises and a tail and I still wouldn't believe him.

All that matters is that you cleave to what you know and what you find out. There's nothing the C/S can to do change that.


And in a way you are right.... but the sad truth is, that the CoS has always attracted young people, who may not be aware that Peter Gilmore is 90% full of hot air, and I just hate to see those "newbies" being spoonfed so much crapola under the guise of "LaVeyan" Satanism.

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#34610 - 01/26/10 10:00 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Apion]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"LttD is Ventrue's own production, essentially for entertainment. So if he doesn't like you or what you have to say, you're out. I think interactions on there is giving most folks the image that the C/S is a heavily censored organization."

It's the message board for the CoS, so its kinda past just being/belonging to Ventrue.

You are kinda naive, and that's okay.
Time is a great teacher.
The more time you spend here, reading and learning, you will see many more people were banned too.

An example of why I was banned?
Hell, it was greater than 7 years ago but less than 12?
I don't honestly remember the details anymore, except I disagreed with some idiot.

Oh, and I found out later on that banning carried over to the TOV as well.

I am kinda curious about you, and how you defend them.
Have you been around long?
How long have you been involved with/curious about Satanism?

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#34611 - 01/26/10 10:49 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Morgan]
Apion Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 18
Not defending them, the C/S isn't my cup of tea -- I've had personal contact with a few of their heirarcy and know a little bit of how it's run. LttD is not an official C/S organ and therefore being banned there doesn't afftect membership: it's solely Ventrue's service.

Still Morgan, do you have examples of folks losing their membership due to which forums they join? The C/S doesn't censor a member at all contrary to LttD, but you may get harrassed, shunned, or banned by other members.

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#34613 - 01/26/10 11:05 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Apion]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Apion
Not defending them, the C/S isn't my cup of tea -- I've had personal contact with a few of their heirarcy and know a little bit of how it's run. LttD is not an official C/S organ and therefore being banned there doesn't afftect membership: it's solely Ventrue's service.

Still Morgan, do you have examples of folks losing their membership due to which forums they join? The C/S doesn't censor a member at all contrary to LttD, but you may get harrassed, shunned, or banned by other members.


I have seen several examples of people affiliated with or wanting to talk about the Temple of Set being banned. One being Eric Kauchen (sp?). He used to have a note on his website about it even but I was lurking around and saw it happen. He did nothing wrong but to be from the "wrong organisation".


Edit: The main problem I have with "letters to the devil" is that it has the form of a discussion forum but discussion isnt encouraged. They could just as well have an extensive FAQ up and it would provide the curious surfer the exact information they always give in the threads over there.


Edited by TheInsane (01/26/10 11:40 AM)

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#34615 - 01/26/10 01:31 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
Apion Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 18
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane

I have seen several examples of people affiliated with or wanting to talk about the Temple of Set being banned. One being Eric Kauchen (sp?). He used to have a note on his website about it even but I was lurking around and saw it happen. He did nothing wrong but to be from the "wrong organisation".


Satannet is Ventrue's social networking site and he is in charge of who stays and who goes. With the C/S's large membership base it may be better to assess it in terms of its different cliques and not project a generalization to the entire body. You can get shunned and banned by other members and not necessarily reflect official membership status. I remember Eric on there: to his disadvantage he did display his KHPR banner and was essentially advertising his T/S affiliation on a C/S dominated board. Not a few C/S members still have rifts with the T/S -- not smart.


 Quote:
Edit: The main problem I have with "letters to the devil" is that it has the form of a discussion forum but discussion isnt encouraged. They could just as well have an extensive FAQ up and it would provide the curious surfer the exact information they always give in the threads over there.


If you go to LttD in its header it reads: "...where the elite come to play." LttD is a casual board for (mostly) C/S members, not one for debate and serious discussions (although they may arise from time to time).

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