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#34616 - 01/26/10 01:52 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Apion]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
Seriously? So you mean the message board isnt for discussion? How weird when they have a section called " General Satanism Discussions" for example.

I woul also like to question what kind of elite these people think they are part of. Im sure some have good credentials but they sure as hell dont show them a whole lot. A serious, deep and reflective discussion on lttd is very rare.

I dont understand why the so called elite would choose to go to a message board, not have intellectual discussions there and basically be there just to repeat themselves over and over again. The first thread I went to just a couple of minutes ago proved my point:

http://www.satannet.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=404789#Post404789

 Quote:
You are in the wrong place.

If Satanism doesn't resonate with you, it isn't for you. Simple as that. Your own path lies elsewhere.

But these boards are for those people who have already read The Satanic Bible and found themselves within its pages.

There really is no need to even go any further and address any more of your questions - you simply don't get it. Good luck, though, in finding your own personal fulfillment.


If they hate dicussions so much why not make this an auto reply and they wouldnt have to waste their valuable elite time?

Seriously, the majority of posts in the Satanism section seems to be variations on the post I quoted above.

Gotta say though that like the good Bible thumping christian they sure do know how to quote TSB back on the lttd forums :P

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#34617 - 01/26/10 02:34 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
 Quote:
Seriously? So you mean the message board isnt for discussion? How weird when they have a section called " General Satanism Discussions" for example.

The discussions are limited to general banter and flattery towards the CoS administration and present Magisters, Priests and other members.
While there are some things worth reading I wouldn't try to even start a discussion. While some might have "deserved" their title they have their heads way up their asses for what they in reality represent. Go ahead and write something which needs a bit of "thinking outside of the box" and you'll notice how many will actually refrain or are in the impossibility to write a coherent and decent response. They will instead refer to the writings of others as a "decent answer".

 Quote:
I dont understand why the so called elite would choose to go to a message board, not have intellectual discussions there and basically be there just to repeat themselves over and over again.

Elite? If xear decides to put the term "elite" in the description of this forum, makes a few more boards private for the blue suits and "approved members", will you consider it elite enough? It's just a word, they might as well talk about the underpants Ventrue or Nemo are wearing in those private places... Learn to distinguish reality from "posturing".


Current CoS is taking Satanism way to serious. The philosophy in itself represents illuminating thoughts, it stands for quality and it shows reality in it's most raw and purest form.
The true elite doesn't give a flying fuck about this institute ( at least, not anymore), it is busy organising their daily life and actually living it.


Edited by Dimitri (01/26/10 02:40 PM)
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#34624 - 01/26/10 04:50 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Dimitri]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
Dimitri, we agree on this topic it seems so why the hostile tone? It sounds like you think I differ in opinion from you.

I think you read my post the wrong way. For example I was using the term "elite" with a touch of sarcasm as a response to what Apion wrote (hence the "").

I am with you all the way in what you write above about how the CoS people at LttD have their heads to far up their own asses and that even if they deserve their titles in the CoS (as a symbol of wordly accomplishments) they sure as hell do a good job at hiding whatever it is that they are good at.

If you re-read my posts in this thread again you should see that we arent far away from each others opinions on the topic at hand.

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#34628 - 01/26/10 05:21 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane

I gotta say I'm not sure these are the right observations but this is the feeling I get from Gilmore.


Well, if they're valid for you then they are valid to the discussion since I asked. You make some good points in your post. I like the way Gilmore presents himself to the public (as a learned academic) so I didn't find anything wrong with his message on the whole. I think you may have something though about the way he seems to distance the church en toto from the importance of the symbol of Satan. I always just assumed he was playing nice for the media, and that may be the case, but I do remember hearing him say that the church has nothing to do with Satan. Of course, I know he means with a literal Satan but I could see people might be bugged by that. Dr. Aquino might even call it an embarrassment :0)

 Quote:

I also dislike that he somehow tries to say that because Satanists are individualist there is no satanic community.

Quite right there too. It's hard to make a call to arms when you've no one to call. If your cause is to forward Satanic thought and understanding to like minded sentient beings then you must understand that a group or community must exist to receive your message, otherwise it'd be a supreme waste of effort.

I still do like the parts of the book I called out in my earlier post and I still like Gilmore. I do appreciate your answer though, you've given me some insight I didn't have before.
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#34631 - 01/26/10 07:46 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3928
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
This thread, if nothing else at least serves to distinguish the clear and pronounced line between Satanists and followers of Satanism.

Certainly different animals!

I personally could not give a fuck what LaVey, or his family, or any damn one outside of my circle did or does or has secretly thought about doing. It doesn't matter to me, or Satanism as it pertains to me;which is the only damn context Satanism has any sort of meaning anyway. It's one of those things you either get or you don't
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#34719 - 01/28/10 09:11 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Dan_Dread]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
I understand your point 100% and a lot of the things we discuss are in fact... trivial..... Zeenas betrayal of her father, other people that could have been a better high priest, etc.... really have no REAL impact on our lives. But at the same time, although What LaVey thought or did, may not have an effect on what you feel or how you live your life now--- it in fact, DOES. Because had LaVey never founded the CoS or written TSB, then you would likely not have identified with Satanism in a modern sense.... Yes, you would most likely still be the same person and have the same views, but you would not be on a site like this today.

A lot of people fail to see the importance of the past. And although a lot of the things we say are just "blowing hot air", they do matter on some level. Gilmores ego has harmed Satanism overall.... maybe not in your life, or my life. But he has shaped or rather reshaped Satanism in a negative way. And long after you, or I, or Jake, or Dr. Aquino are gone, THAT will continue to evolve.

Just as people have long since forgotten the racial views of Lincoln and only remember the Emancipation Proclamation, or just as people have now forgotten MLK's personal life full of adultery, prostitutes and other flaws and only remember "I Have A Dream....", in the future, many people may not remember what the CoS was supposed to be about or what it was created to be.

And that is a shame, and YES, I am sorry to disagree, but I think it matters and I think that sites like this, that create chatter about these topics at least make an alternative view point accessible to those who might not otherwise ever venture from current CoS dogma.

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#34721 - 01/28/10 09:30 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: 111Cal]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
 Quote:
But at the same time, although What LaVey thought or did, may not have an effect on what you feel or how you live your life now--- it in fact, DOES. Because had LaVey never founded the COS or written TSB, then you would likely not have identified with Satanism in a modern sense.... Yes, you would most likely still be the same person and have the same views, but you would not be on a site like this today.

You are creating "what if" situations.
LaVey in reality DID define Satanism, he DID write the SB and he founded the CoS. A what if situation is out of question and only for importance to those who have nothing else to do.

Grow up, welcome to reality and learn to live with it.

 Quote:
Gilmores ego has harmed Satanism overall.... maybe not in your life, or my life. But he has shaped or rather reshaped Satanism in a negative way. And long after you, or I, or Jake, or Dr. Aquino are gone, THAT will continue to evolve.

And since you already (should) know that I and others don't give a fuck about, why bitch about it? Don't like the way things are going? Write a letter to him, I guess he'll love it.

 Quote:
Just as people have long since forgotten the racial views of Lincoln and only remember the Emancipation Proclamation, or just as people have now forgotten MLK's personal life full of adultery, prostitutes and other flaws and only remember "I Have A Dream....", in the future, many people may not remember what the COS was supposed to be about or what it was created to be.

To forget past events is a part of evolution. You can always reflect on those good ol' times, yet they will never and shall never happen again. You are feeling bad for having missed certain events? Shit happens, get over it.

And yes I am acting as an arrogant bastard, but I'm getting slightly sick of your worthless banter.
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#34724 - 01/28/10 09:41 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Dimitri]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
Actually I have spoken with Peter Gilmore at various times over the years. I used to advertise in The Black Flame and we've always been cordial and I have in fact, expressed my views to him that the direction he is moving things is not the correct one. And of course, his ego will not allow him to even consider that he might be mistaken.

And I don't think you are an arrogant bastard at all. Nor do I think that any banter is worthless on these subjects. You would not believe how many emails I have gotten from people with similar views (many of them who are active in the current CoS today) and others who are new to Satanism and are glad that conversations like this take place... so that they realize that they are not alone with these questions and concerns.

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#34855 - 01/31/10 03:04 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
EvilDjinn Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 31
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane

Seriously, the majority of posts in the Satanism section seems to be variations on the post I quoted above.


I'm curious to know then if you have in fact been all through the LttD site? On all the forums? I ask because there's 25 forums showing, but the box at the bottom of the LttD page says that there are 73. No I don't imagine they do want to have long drawn out discussions with ever idiot in the world and put up a wall of Unwelcome to keep them out.

People want to discuss things with opposing viewpoints, want to argue, want to meet all these people that they don't necessarily agree with. That's fine, I engage in enough of that myself. But I think the intention of the LttD site is to discuss things in a purely Satanic context (Satanic as they define it, but Satanic nonetheless). Magic, books, art, whatever.

Honestly, I don't see why a Satanist wouldn't expel people that annoy them from their website. It's not like things that happen on the internet really matter that much. Why whine about it for the next twelve years?

To the starter of this thread, I think you missed the point on Gilmore's chapter on Fascism.

I think that Gilmore's book had certain gems in it worth noting, even if some of it was verbose rehashing of some material. The Music chapter was mentioned. The material written about New York (I enjoyed the account of the black out particularly). Watching old horror movies on TV. Of course he has a whole section on Magic (and an interesting chapter addressing the Satan) which are worth reading.

It's worth reading at the very least. Even if you disagree with it, at least it presents an opposing viewpoint.

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#34858 - 01/31/10 03:46 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: EvilDjinn]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
EvilDjinn:

I have mostly visited "general Satanism discussion" and the "CoS" part of the forum (The parts directly dealing with Satanism and Satanic philosophy. In there I rarely see any sort of discussion because they seem to value thinking alike as opposed to actually disagreeing on certain things and debate about them.

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#34894 - 02/01/10 12:43 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
EvilDjinn Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 31
So not to the fifty forums open only to CoS members?

Yes I quite agree that most of the stuff on the more immediately accessible parts of the forums seem to be less open for discussion (at least where members of the CoS hierarchy are concerned). But then most of the "discussions" that see this kind of response are usually some sort of basic idea. In fact, I think it happens quite a lot. Which is why I think there is a number of forums open only to discussion with members. I've never been on it, naturally, but it does suggest that there's more going on then we know.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on that site or the CoS in general. I don't really care what anybody does or thinks. But the reasoning is flawed and it's worth pointing out.

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#34905 - 02/01/10 03:05 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: EvilDjinn]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: EvilDjinn
So not to the fifty forums open only to CoS members?


Of course not. I am not a member. However if they can't debate Satanism philosophy or different interpretatons of it in the public forusm I actully think they can't in the private sections either. It's pretty much the sign of Gilmores church nowadays that one should agree with him and the higher up in every important question in regards to satanic philosophy. If not ne is banned (from the foum) or expelled (from the church).

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#34938 - 02/01/10 02:36 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
From what I have absorbed from Satanism and Anton LaVey, it is clear to me that I should be moving on to study other schools of thought. I am not going to limit myself to anyone else's set of rules. I take from Lavey, the Temple of Set, John Allee, anyone who strikes my fancy.
I found the section on music in the Satanic Scriptures interesting. Peter Gilmore sure does know his classical music, doesn't he. I like all kinds of music. I am a little disturbed about the "Iron Youth" thing. I was handed the Satanic Bible by my grandmother, but in no way did she say that this was the only way I should go. "Read it and make up your own mind" is all she said to me. Gilmore does admit that more numbers means more political clout. Guess what. I could not care less about politics. Also, raising kids at this point is the furthest thing from my mind.
Don Webb said in his book THE ESSENTIAL GUIDE TO THE LHP that the most important thing to the magician is freedom. I wholeheartedly agree with this. If someone starts pushing their rules on me, their names are crossed out of my cool book. I don't even like it when someone aggressively asserts something with me that I happen to agree with.
The Satanic Scriptures sure does look rather neat. I like the cover, I bought the hard bound edition. Currently I am taking a stab at Aleister Crowley's MAGIC IN THEORY AND PRACTICE. I also recently acquired THE WITCHES BIBLE By Janet and Stewart Farrar.
These books are not quick reads, I consider them to be more like reference books than anything else.

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#57978 - 08/05/11 12:59 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Satansfarm]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
-general reply using quick post-

I noticed the other thread which was locked and pointed to this thread... I went looking and the Book is now available for $9.43 via amazon ... I'm going to pick it up and give it a once over. I will then be able to contribute more afterwards other than a price drop.
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Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

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#57996 - 08/06/11 09:34 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Wicked Satanist]
Goliath Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 93
It's not a bad book. In fact, overall, I thought the quality of the essays in The Satanic Scriptures was higher than the quality of the essays in LaVey's Satan Speaks. And it certainly is handsome.

But I've only read it once, and nothing Gilmore says really sticks out in my mind. The worst thing I could say about it is that there didn't seem to be anything new therein.

What's more, this absence of novelty seems to be inherent in Gilmore's whole project. From what I understand, Gilmore sees Satanism as a closed system. Anton LaVey said everything that needed to be said, and Gilmore's job as High Priest is simply to clarify, to recapitulate, and to defend CoS orthodoxy.

Of course, his actual role is much more interventionist than that. All meaning is attributed, and Gilmore's interpretation of LaVey's writings is just one possibility among many. But his own position and authority seem to depend heavily on presenting himself as the faithful disciple of the Master, and the accurate interpreter of LaVey's words--the true Satanic Scriptures.

As a result, Gilmore's own book might have been more accurately titled The Satanic Talmud. It's commentary--nothing more.
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