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#34322 - 01/21/10 09:21 AM Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift....
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
OK, For the holidays I was given Peter Gilmores "The Satanic Scriptures" as a gift by a well meaning relative who knew of my beliefs and tried hard to get an appropriate gift. Although the book has been out for some time, I have purposely NOT purchased it as I really have no interest in the current direction that Peter Gilmore has moved the CoS.

That said---- I tried to read it with an open mind. The first thing that I noticed was that there are LOT of typos and misspellings in the book. How can this be???? Dont they have editors how review books before they go to press???? And doesnt Gilmore himself, pride himself on how "smart" he is??? Anyhow, maybe thats a pet peeve.

The book, LOOKS good. Has a nice cover and is visually appealing to flip through. Some parts are actually ok (The Satanic Wedding, funeral, Rites of Ragnarok) BUT when it comes to those, I do not know how much of that was Gilmores doing, or simply putting OTHER PEOPLES ideas and words to paper by his hand. (I suspect a LOT of it is)

The portions that are Gilmores entirely are a bit pretentious and pointless. Sort of like the articles he would write for the Black Flame magazine. (perhaps they are reprinted from that? not sure) and the whole thing seems forced.

Some parts are simply not true. Such as the portion about Facism where Gilmore claims the current CoS is NOT facist, while everything else he has said and done in the last decade points otherwise!

By in large, the book was pretty much as I expected it. There was no reason for the book to be written or printed, other than the fact that Gilmore wants people to know that, YES YES YES YES, he is High Priest now. (LOOK AT ME FOLKS- IM THE HIGH PRIEST!) and he seems to really enjoy the sound of his own voice.

Its not a bad book, just not a memorable one at all. I would never have bought it on my own, but I wont toss it out either....

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#34350 - 01/21/10 08:22 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: 111Cal]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Yes, I have purchased and read this book by Peter Gilmore as well.

I noticed a number of spelling mistakes, but also noted that it was a rather beautiful looking book with the glossy cover and inside cover artwork.

I would note that any mistakes in the book may not be Peter Gilmore’s fault. The fault may lay with the editors or the publisher or the printer of the book etc.

I have been critical of High Priest Gilmore and the current hierarchy of the Church of Satan in the past. I have stated certain opinions in past threads. I have also viewed certain media articles and other information about the will and estate of Dr. LaVey and the succession etc.

I have said my piece on these issues and will now follow Jake’s advice and just get over it. It is what it is and it was what it was.

I will read and listen to anybody who can teach me something truthful, useful and interesting about the Satanic philosophy and any organisations, which has grown out of that philosophy, and those sources of knowledge should and will include Magus Gilmore, Magistra Nadramia, Magister Nemo and other members of the current hierarchy.

I don’t give a damn about the politics of it all to be honest and I don’t want to. It’s none of my business and should never have been in the first place. I don’t know these people personally.

I did learn some interesting things about the current position of the Church and the philosophy of Dr. LaVey from this book by High Priest Gilmore.

A number of these essays seem to me to be rather clear statements on the way the Church currently views the philosophy of Dr. LaVey. Others may dispute this conclusion. If they do, then they should say so and in a way that I and other members can understand.

I cannot comment on the supposed fascist orientation of The Church, if some person wishes to comment on this than I would appreciate that.

A comment has been made here that the book is not a memorable one, or that High Priest Gilmore is just repeating other people’s ideas, or regurgitating conventional pieties. This may be true.

I think Gilmore and the current hierarchy see themselves as the protectors and caretakers of The Church and the guardians of Dr. LaVey’s philosophy in the face of lairs like this one.

To each their own, I like this lair and that’s that as far as I am concerned. It’s much better, in my opinion, to have variety of opinion and free speech, rather than none at all or a very limited range of opinion and accepted speech.

I found The Satanic Scriptures overall to be a useful book – dry, but historically important with clearly written essays, which a novice or beginner could learn a lot from. I personally recommend it.

If you disagree with this than say so and state your reasons so I and others can understand.

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#34354 - 01/21/10 10:09 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: ]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"I will read and listen to anybody who can teach me something truthful, useful and interesting about the Satanic philosophy and any organisations, which has grown out of that philosophy, and those sources of knowledge should and will include Magus Gilmore, Magistra Nadramia, Magister Nemo and other members of the current hierarchy."

Go forth with an open mind. Be aware they don't like to be questioned. If you join and send them money, be aware they will ban you because you are a member and post here.

Truth is an idea which can manipulated. Just do your own research and be aware that people will try to manipulate you.

Current hierarchy, who cares. They don't pay my bills or affect my life or my beliefs. If you need outside validation about who you are or what to believe in, Satanism may not be for you. In that case, you are just behaving like a sheep, looking for someone to lead you by the nose. Besides, if you want to get technical Jake processed Gilmore and Peggy's paperwork when they were first joining the church, back when he took care of stuff.

Any group of individuals who do not want to be questioned or challenged on ideas are stagnant and locked into a time frame with no future goals. That puts them into the same head space as the Catholic church in Rome. "Don't question, just accept because we told you so."

"I found The Satanic Scriptures overall to be a useful book – dry, but historically important with clearly written essays, which a novice or beginner could learn a lot from. I personally recommend it."

If a newbie can't learn from the Satanic Bible or understand it, nothing else matters. I don't view it as historically important at all.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#34357 - 01/21/10 10:51 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Morgan]
babyflex Offline
lurker


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1
Loc: san jose,ca
hey morgan have you read the devils notebook? thats the way i grew up in my years. if you want to discuss it message me, im open.! bye
_________________________
pics on myspace search by e-mail snoopy408@yahoo.com or my cell4087063335 i live the devils notebook

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#34360 - 01/21/10 11:30 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Morgan]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Thanks for your point of view Morgan. It is appreciated and pertinent as always.

Yes, I will not be some mindless sheep and will always keep an open mind about what is presented to me. You can take that to the bank.

I am always applying critical thinking to everything which is presented to me.

The reason I like this particular place is because of the variety of views about a whole range of issues.

I have noted some authoritarian sorts of views when I have lurked around LTTD, but have learnt some additional things about the philosophy and The Church.

I am a great believer in freedom of speech. I will not join The Church at this stage.

I am interested in LHP scholarship and like to draw on a wide a range of material as possible.

Study always focuses my mind for all the tasks I engage in.

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#34379 - 01/22/10 07:08 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: ]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
Yes, it seems we are all pretty much in a similar position on this book.... I gave it a chance, and some of the LaVey stuff is worthwhile (the older stuff put in print) but as usual, Gilmore seems more interested in self promotion than real discussion.
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#34485 - 01/24/10 05:53 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: 111Cal]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Okay, I just want to clarify again.

I recommend High Priest Gilmore’s book The Satanic Scriptures to all readers. I highly recommend it to beginners or novices.

After having read Peter Gilmore’s book a number of times, I feel that Peter Gilmore is not into self promotion.

Peter Gilmore and the current hierarchy are the leadership and caretakers of the current C.O.S and they see themselves as working for the continued existence of the C.O.S and the integrity and cohesion of LaVey’s work.

I see nothing wrong with the above, as somebody has to get in there and do the job. In fact I say well done to them (Responsibility to the Responsible).

I disagree with High Priest Gilmore and the hierarchy, only in regards to his criticism of lairs like the 600 Club, which I regard to be an excellent website.

I personally like the diversity of opinion in this place.

The Church of course has standards which it believes must be maintained and this is their goal, but they may need to see that they are now only one fish in a large pond.

I will continue to study works produced by high ranking members of The Church and no doubt will get a great deal of information and knowledge out of them, just as I do when I study Dr. LaVey and Dr. Aquino’s works.

I am not a member of The Church at this time, but may become a member in the future.

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#34492 - 01/24/10 09:26 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: ]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
You know, I saw a copy of the book going for over 40 bucks on ebay.

There is a sucker born every minute.....

Once again, keep in mind if you join the CoS they will ban you and cancel your membership because you post here. So you will have wasted like $200 for the membership and a red card.

Whatever Dude, its your money....

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#34513 - 01/25/10 06:20 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Morgan]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
You know, I saw a copy of the book going for over 40 bucks on ebay.

I saw a few PDF versions of the Satanic Scriptures floating around the net. I'm guessing Gilmore can't stop people from getting their hands on it for nothing.

Then again, if a book's sufficiently evil-looking, with a black cover and with a title like that, there will always be people willing to pay ;\)

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#34541 - 01/25/10 10:06 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: 111Cal]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
I like a lot of what Gilmore writes and I also like listening to him speak. He certainly doesn't carry the same commanding sort of presence that his predecessor carried but he is quite interesting to listen to as he's well versed in both the history of the C/S and the history of religion in general.

Personally I wasn't much impressed with this book either. I think better examples of his writing can be found right on the C/S web site without the $20 price tag. I also get the impression that a large portion of the book consists of reprinted articles but I don't have source material to compare to, so I can't be certain of that.

Of particular interest to me was the extended chapter on music in or about the middle of the book. Gilmore is an accomplished musician and certainly knows his stuff in that arena. His waxing eloquent on that subject was, in my opinion, the most worthwhile part of the book.

On a bit of a side note, I've tried a few of the post LaVey heirarchy's books. Most of what I've read seems to be reprinted articles of one kind or another with much focus on aesthetics, movies, personal meetings etc. I'm certainly not saying that there isn't value there... there is. I was looking for deeper insight though than most of what was in the books. The one I have not read, and am looking most forward to, is Magister Svengali's 'Essays in Satanism'. Svengali's blog is chock full of Satanic wisdom and he makes no bones about exactly how he feels about things and what his opinions are about how things effect and are effected by Satanism.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#34545 - 01/25/10 11:40 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Fnord]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
From what I understand the whole book or the vast majority of it is reprinted articles that he already published elsewhere. Which is quite funny since the book was delayed for years and years and I thought it was Gilmore who hadnt finished it and was just being lazy. It must have been something else.

I however do not like Gilmore. He is so full of himself and i tend to disregard any satanist that tries to play the "true Satanism vs pseudo Satanism" card. Its just something no satanic "tradition" can really do and to me it signals that the person really doesnt know shit about the history of movements, much less the word Satanism.

Furthermore I find that Gilmore is only a sheep in that all he ever seem to do is to praise Anton LaVey. He never really strives to create something new for himself but keeps going on and on about Antons favorite subjects and his opinions rather than create his own thing.

And still he seems to neglect certain parts of what LaVey wrote and tries to ignore it or downplay it.

And because of all this he is repetative. In every interview Ive heard him in I think he has mentions that "Satanism is just show-business".

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#34546 - 01/25/10 12:01 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane


And still he seems to neglect certain parts of what LaVey wrote and tries to ignore it or downplay it.


Not challenging you... just curious what you had in mind, specifically, when you wrote this?
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#34552 - 01/25/10 03:26 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Fnord]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane


And still he seems to neglect certain parts of what LaVey wrote and tries to ignore it or downplay it.


Not challenging you... just curious what you had in mind, specifically, when you wrote this?


I gotta say I'm not sure these are the right observations but this is the feeling I get from Gilmore. To me he seems to not neglect the magic portion of Anton LaVeys philosophy but maybe how it works or how seriously one should take it. Anton saw alot of importance in it. Heck one half of TSB is dedicated to it.

Then its the classical debate on Satan's place in Satanism. I realize that for LaVey the concepts was something he'd rather not talk alot about the older he got but he still had the foundation that The Church of Satan was actually build on something called Satan. Now I don't believe LaVey necissarilly believed in Satan as a sentient being but I do believe that he was way more open to personal interpretation (in the early stages at least) and whatever he regarded Satan to be the very concept was of extreme importance. Gilmore on the other hand always seem to claim that "Satanism has nothing to do with Satan" or "We don't believe in Satan". To me he comes across as if he doesn't really care about the symbol of Satan either. He seems to think it is disconnected somehow from the world-view of Satanism. Although I might give Gilmore to much credit for this - it might be his fan boys that hold this closer to heart (I have been debating with a few of them throughout the years).

On a personal note I despise the Gilmore regime because its static. It does nothing new for Satanism. There are no new ideas or even a thought to dwelve deeper into already existing concepts. There have been no attempt to write any books on relevant historical connection Satanism has with Hindu tantra or Crowley or Nietzsche or Rand etc. No dwelling deep into its philosophy but only scratching the surface and repeating some of the buzzwords over and over again.

I also dislike that he somehow tries to say that because Satanists are individualist there is no satanic community. I think it is a bs notion since individualism itself doesn't actually go against the community thought (it can benefit the individual to spend time with like-minded for example). For someone who uses alot of big words and praise about true human nature he seems to forget that despite (or maybe because of) mans egoism we are a herd animal – needing, feeding and thriving in social groups. Of course this anti-community thought also renders The Church of Satan as completely worthless as an existing organisation since it serves no purpose whatsoever.

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#34560 - 01/25/10 06:02 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Morgan]
Apion Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 18
Morgan, I don't know what the deal is with the hostile tone but the only reason for expulsion in the C/S is mucking around someway in illegal activity. Unless the 600 club is an illegal networking site a C/S member is just fine. It's a very "do your own thing" mentality with a low expulsion rate. I'm not a member yet I have some contact with them.
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#34571 - 01/25/10 09:53 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Apion]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Apion, you will see and learn.
It has happened to members here before, and will happen to members here again.

It's not actually hostile, its actually forarming individuals to be aware of what they write, that way, hopefully at the very least, they use a different user name.

Oh, and btw, I was banned from their site for questioning them.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#34576 - 01/25/10 10:58 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Morgan]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
Morgan and I dont see eye to eye on many things... BUT she is 100% correct on that. The CoS has little patience and/or tolerance if you dont follow their instructions 100%.

If you are on this site, there is a good chance you will be kicked from the CoS. Why? Because of many things....

1. The CoS has a ZERO Tolerance for Dr. Michael Aquino and the Temple of Set and since he is an active member here, they dont want CoS members interacting at all.

2. Peter Gilmore has repeatedly insulted Zeena and Karla LaVey on a personal level, and flat out called them both unintelligent. (now Zeena has a long list of flaws.... but stupidity is not one of them, and Karla has done nothing against the CoS except to have some personal issues with Blanche Barton) and since Karla LaVey is discussed on this site, and advertises on it... they want you to stay away...

BASICALLY Peter Gilmore and Blanche Barton, want you to stay away from ANY satanic discussions and views that they cannot 100% control and censor. They cannot control this site, and dont want CoS members to hear anything that contradicts their points of view!

Check out the CoS boards! If you bring up LaVeys personal life (his REAL personal life, not the myth he liked to tell) they will close the thread, end the discussion and boot you. If you speak against the TOV, you are in trouble. If you discuss Karla, Zeena, Stanton or Aquino, you are in trouble. If you are critical of the CoS in any way, you are gone....

Its a real shame, because Gilmore is a bright man.... just not bright enough to deal with any views that are not reflections of his own.

And for the book? Anyone who really thinks its a good book, should just really look into it deeper. Most of the good material, did not originate from Gilmore, and most of his material, is reprinted from older stuff. He pretty much tossed in some old essays and writings he did, and a lot of LaVey material that wasnt in book form, and called it a new book. Its not awful, its just pointless... other than the fact that it looks nice.

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#34581 - 01/26/10 12:49 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: 111Cal]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
I am another one who either got banned or got a hostile welcome at the CoS boards (can't remeber which - it was a long time ago and before my 600club account).

In my case I wanted to deep of a disussion and I actually wanted to question things (you know part of the most important principle in Satanism).

At that board they seem to be happy to answer the same newbie questions over and over again but as soon as anyone differ in opinion to Gilmore, if they question to much or if they show signs or starting an intellectual discussion they are banned.

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#34582 - 01/26/10 12:58 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
Apion Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 18
LttD is Ventrue's own production, essentially for entertainment. So if he doesn't like you or what you have to say, you're out. I think interactions on there is giving most folks the image that the C/S is a heavily censored organization.

Morgan,

Do you have examples?

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#34585 - 01/26/10 01:32 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Apion]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: "111cal"

Check out the CoS boards! If you bring up LaVeys personal life (his REAL personal life, not the myth he liked to tell) they will close the thread, end the discussion and boot you.

I am certainly no big supporter of the CoS, but the fact that they don't want to see a dead mans name dragged through the mud seems to me indicative of class. Heard of it?
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#34593 - 01/26/10 07:34 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Dan_Dread]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
1. Noone is talking about dragging LaVey through the mud. ANY discussion of anything that doesnt "follow the mythical line" is killed at once. If you discuss LaVeys REAL history, they can you. Admitting that his life wasnt the Tall Tale that he told, is not dragging him through the mud. Discussing Dr. Aquino is not dragging him through the mud. Discussing either of his daughters (Whom he loved dearly, EVEN after Zeena betrayed him) is not dragging him through the mud. Gilmore has created a revisionist history of the CoS and if anyone questions it, you are banned.

Ive seen people banned for mentioning his birth name! Or for even mentioning that Karla LaVey has a church. Its just silly and it falls into the same sort of self-righteous hypocrisy that Gilmore loves to complain about "Mainstream" religons have!

Sort of like Christians protesting a movie they dont like, or Muslims wanting to kill Salman Rushdie for a book they dont like....

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#34596 - 01/26/10 08:35 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
I am not sure which reply you are responding to, but I will jump in. Its not simply that Gilmore doesnt want to question LaVeys history, its ANY point of view that he doesnt agree with! If you even mention Karla LaVey or Michael Aquino, they will kick you from the site!

If you were to admit that you actually emailed Dr. Aquino on a site like this? you would have your pretty red card revoked at once! If you even mention ANY OPPOSING POINTS OF VIEW in Satanism, they will kick you out. He is NOT trying to preserve LaVeys "legacy" he is trying to censor any type of OPEN and HONEST Satanic discussion, debates or dialog.

The CoS wants you to think that the CoS is the ONLY valid point of view in Satanism.... that Aquino is a nutjob, that Karla LaVey is a stupid spoiled brat, that Diane LaVey was of NO importance, that LaVey believed EXACTLY as Gilmore now says he does (without any regard to what LaVey actual believed!) and that is what I object to.

Gilmore and Barton to a lesser degree, have attempted to rewrite history... picking and choosing what to change. They contradict some of LaVeys viewpoints to fit their own agenda. They have "pet project" grottos that are pretty much vampire-goth-fetishists, that they adore because of personal friendships.

The current CoS is almost unrecognizable to anyone who was around when LaVey was alive.

As for the history of LaVey? Its a valid topic to discuss. And YES, anyone who is a satanist, will naturally have an interest in his life... just as a Christian would be interested in the life of one of the apostles, or a catholic would be interested in the life of Pope John Paul II. I do not think it diminishes LaVeys accomplishments to look at his "Real" life at all. The myths he created about himself are amusing and fun and all, but TRUTH Is the highest goal, and its far more interesting to know the truth.

Gilmore is not a bad guy, he just has an ego the size of Europe and surrounds himself with Yes men, who tell him how great he is.

Satanism should be an open and honest "religon" as opposed to the hipocrsy of the mainstream religons. Satanists should not be herded like sheep and told what to think and not think, and what we can and cannot discuss, and who we can and cannot interact with. The CoS has morphed into what it was created to be opposed to! They have become nothing more than another religon that tries to control its members with threats, fear and lies!

And that is a shame....

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#34597 - 01/26/10 08:36 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: 111Cal]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
PS and how would it alter Satanism in any way???? Well the free flow of ideas and discussions with opposing points of view, helps to enlighten us all and expose us to new ways of thinking and that is how we learn and evolve.

Satanism should have choices... and more than 1 voice should be allowed to be heard.

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#34601 - 01/26/10 09:20 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
Its not a question of "what do I need" from the CoS at all... its simply a matter of the CoS now being morphed into the exact opposite of what it was intended to be. And that matters.

Do I need to use the CoS and its boards to learn about LaVey? Of course not, but thats not the point. The point is that by handling things the way they do, they dishonor the legacy of LaVey. Its not the truth about his life that cheapens his memory, its people like Gilmore trying to rewrite history to feed his ego and agenda that cheapens Laveys memory.

And I think that matters. Gilmore is not a bad guy, in fact in our limited contacts he has always been polite and friendly and gracious. But he simply is doing harm to the CoS, and making a mess that might never be able to be cleaned up in the process.

So, I guess you are right in a way... it really doesnt matter... EXCEPT for the fact that its "un-satanic" in the strictest sense of the word and that that type of censorship and strict "commandments" are against everything LaVey worked to build.

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#34604 - 01/26/10 09:29 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Maw, it pretty much boils down to the idea that many people have that it's their right to stick their noses into anything. Even things that are none of their business.

The same thing that makes people fascinated by The Batchelor or The Bad Girl's Club or Celebrity Gossip on TV. They need to feel like they're somehow involved in whatever goes on, so they can kvetch about things instead of actually doing something USEFUL with their lives.

Hell... why should Lady Diane or Karla come on and subject themselves to a scrutiny by some faceless name on a computer screen. Do people think that they're really that desperate to become part of the freak show that surrounds the whole thing? Do people really think that they have the right to invade the privacy of people simply to satisfy their own maudlin curiosities? Both of these ladies have better things to do... and so SHOULD the dolts who would be pulling them into their own sleazy world.

Hell... scandals happen. Divorces happen. Life happens. GET OVER IT! Dr. Aquino can tell you for a fact how utterly stupid people can get demanding to know about your personal life because of the very real problems he's had with people doing the exact same thing. Forty years on, people are still hashing it out on the web.

I know! Let's get Lilith in here to dig into the dirt. Let's see if she ever had sex with the mascot of a major sports franchise! Let's ask her if she and her hubby ever do x, y, or z with vegetables.

Kind of ridiculous, isn't it? Of course it is. But there ARE scandals that he could be asked about. You notice that I don't ask him. Why? Because it's none of my fucking business. If nothing else, I prefer not to contribute to the declasse societal condition that would even suggest it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. "Some people's actions prove Lenin was right when he said we are heading towards a classless society, because people definitely can show that they have no class."
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#34605 - 01/26/10 09:35 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Jake999]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
Actually... I started this thread as a review of the Satanic Scriptures book... and have no idea how we ended up here... ha ha ha
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#34606 - 01/26/10 09:36 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
Hey, you're not alone in your thoughts regarding the church, but life is too short to bother. You know he established something great. That's all that matters. If the rest of the world, and particularly the C/S, chooses to disregard what he intended, let them at it. There is no way it changes the truth. If Gilmore is a revisionist, let him at it. He could say Anton had three penises and a tail and I still wouldn't believe him.

All that matters is that you cleave to what you know and what you find out. There's nothing the C/S can to do change that.


And in a way you are right.... but the sad truth is, that the CoS has always attracted young people, who may not be aware that Peter Gilmore is 90% full of hot air, and I just hate to see those "newbies" being spoonfed so much crapola under the guise of "LaVeyan" Satanism.

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#34610 - 01/26/10 10:00 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Apion]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"LttD is Ventrue's own production, essentially for entertainment. So if he doesn't like you or what you have to say, you're out. I think interactions on there is giving most folks the image that the C/S is a heavily censored organization."

It's the message board for the CoS, so its kinda past just being/belonging to Ventrue.

You are kinda naive, and that's okay.
Time is a great teacher.
The more time you spend here, reading and learning, you will see many more people were banned too.

An example of why I was banned?
Hell, it was greater than 7 years ago but less than 12?
I don't honestly remember the details anymore, except I disagreed with some idiot.

Oh, and I found out later on that banning carried over to the TOV as well.

I am kinda curious about you, and how you defend them.
Have you been around long?
How long have you been involved with/curious about Satanism?

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#34611 - 01/26/10 10:49 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Morgan]
Apion Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 18
Not defending them, the C/S isn't my cup of tea -- I've had personal contact with a few of their heirarcy and know a little bit of how it's run. LttD is not an official C/S organ and therefore being banned there doesn't afftect membership: it's solely Ventrue's service.

Still Morgan, do you have examples of folks losing their membership due to which forums they join? The C/S doesn't censor a member at all contrary to LttD, but you may get harrassed, shunned, or banned by other members.

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#34613 - 01/26/10 11:05 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Apion]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Apion
Not defending them, the C/S isn't my cup of tea -- I've had personal contact with a few of their heirarcy and know a little bit of how it's run. LttD is not an official C/S organ and therefore being banned there doesn't afftect membership: it's solely Ventrue's service.

Still Morgan, do you have examples of folks losing their membership due to which forums they join? The C/S doesn't censor a member at all contrary to LttD, but you may get harrassed, shunned, or banned by other members.


I have seen several examples of people affiliated with or wanting to talk about the Temple of Set being banned. One being Eric Kauchen (sp?). He used to have a note on his website about it even but I was lurking around and saw it happen. He did nothing wrong but to be from the "wrong organisation".


Edit: The main problem I have with "letters to the devil" is that it has the form of a discussion forum but discussion isnt encouraged. They could just as well have an extensive FAQ up and it would provide the curious surfer the exact information they always give in the threads over there.


Edited by TheInsane (01/26/10 11:40 AM)

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#34615 - 01/26/10 01:31 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
Apion Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 18
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane

I have seen several examples of people affiliated with or wanting to talk about the Temple of Set being banned. One being Eric Kauchen (sp?). He used to have a note on his website about it even but I was lurking around and saw it happen. He did nothing wrong but to be from the "wrong organisation".


Satannet is Ventrue's social networking site and he is in charge of who stays and who goes. With the C/S's large membership base it may be better to assess it in terms of its different cliques and not project a generalization to the entire body. You can get shunned and banned by other members and not necessarily reflect official membership status. I remember Eric on there: to his disadvantage he did display his KHPR banner and was essentially advertising his T/S affiliation on a C/S dominated board. Not a few C/S members still have rifts with the T/S -- not smart.


 Quote:
Edit: The main problem I have with "letters to the devil" is that it has the form of a discussion forum but discussion isnt encouraged. They could just as well have an extensive FAQ up and it would provide the curious surfer the exact information they always give in the threads over there.


If you go to LttD in its header it reads: "...where the elite come to play." LttD is a casual board for (mostly) C/S members, not one for debate and serious discussions (although they may arise from time to time).

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#34616 - 01/26/10 01:52 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Apion]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
Seriously? So you mean the message board isnt for discussion? How weird when they have a section called " General Satanism Discussions" for example.

I woul also like to question what kind of elite these people think they are part of. Im sure some have good credentials but they sure as hell dont show them a whole lot. A serious, deep and reflective discussion on lttd is very rare.

I dont understand why the so called elite would choose to go to a message board, not have intellectual discussions there and basically be there just to repeat themselves over and over again. The first thread I went to just a couple of minutes ago proved my point:

http://www.satannet.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=404789#Post404789

 Quote:
You are in the wrong place.

If Satanism doesn't resonate with you, it isn't for you. Simple as that. Your own path lies elsewhere.

But these boards are for those people who have already read The Satanic Bible and found themselves within its pages.

There really is no need to even go any further and address any more of your questions - you simply don't get it. Good luck, though, in finding your own personal fulfillment.


If they hate dicussions so much why not make this an auto reply and they wouldnt have to waste their valuable elite time?

Seriously, the majority of posts in the Satanism section seems to be variations on the post I quoted above.

Gotta say though that like the good Bible thumping christian they sure do know how to quote TSB back on the lttd forums :P

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#34617 - 01/26/10 02:34 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
Seriously? So you mean the message board isnt for discussion? How weird when they have a section called " General Satanism Discussions" for example.

The discussions are limited to general banter and flattery towards the CoS administration and present Magisters, Priests and other members.
While there are some things worth reading I wouldn't try to even start a discussion. While some might have "deserved" their title they have their heads way up their asses for what they in reality represent. Go ahead and write something which needs a bit of "thinking outside of the box" and you'll notice how many will actually refrain or are in the impossibility to write a coherent and decent response. They will instead refer to the writings of others as a "decent answer".

 Quote:
I dont understand why the so called elite would choose to go to a message board, not have intellectual discussions there and basically be there just to repeat themselves over and over again.

Elite? If xear decides to put the term "elite" in the description of this forum, makes a few more boards private for the blue suits and "approved members", will you consider it elite enough? It's just a word, they might as well talk about the underpants Ventrue or Nemo are wearing in those private places... Learn to distinguish reality from "posturing".


Current CoS is taking Satanism way to serious. The philosophy in itself represents illuminating thoughts, it stands for quality and it shows reality in it's most raw and purest form.
The true elite doesn't give a flying fuck about this institute ( at least, not anymore), it is busy organising their daily life and actually living it.


Edited by Dimitri (01/26/10 02:40 PM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#34624 - 01/26/10 04:50 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Dimitri]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
Dimitri, we agree on this topic it seems so why the hostile tone? It sounds like you think I differ in opinion from you.

I think you read my post the wrong way. For example I was using the term "elite" with a touch of sarcasm as a response to what Apion wrote (hence the "").

I am with you all the way in what you write above about how the CoS people at LttD have their heads to far up their own asses and that even if they deserve their titles in the CoS (as a symbol of wordly accomplishments) they sure as hell do a good job at hiding whatever it is that they are good at.

If you re-read my posts in this thread again you should see that we arent far away from each others opinions on the topic at hand.

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#34628 - 01/26/10 05:21 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane

I gotta say I'm not sure these are the right observations but this is the feeling I get from Gilmore.


Well, if they're valid for you then they are valid to the discussion since I asked. You make some good points in your post. I like the way Gilmore presents himself to the public (as a learned academic) so I didn't find anything wrong with his message on the whole. I think you may have something though about the way he seems to distance the church en toto from the importance of the symbol of Satan. I always just assumed he was playing nice for the media, and that may be the case, but I do remember hearing him say that the church has nothing to do with Satan. Of course, I know he means with a literal Satan but I could see people might be bugged by that. Dr. Aquino might even call it an embarrassment :0)

 Quote:

I also dislike that he somehow tries to say that because Satanists are individualist there is no satanic community.

Quite right there too. It's hard to make a call to arms when you've no one to call. If your cause is to forward Satanic thought and understanding to like minded sentient beings then you must understand that a group or community must exist to receive your message, otherwise it'd be a supreme waste of effort.

I still do like the parts of the book I called out in my earlier post and I still like Gilmore. I do appreciate your answer though, you've given me some insight I didn't have before.
_________________________
Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#34631 - 01/26/10 07:46 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
This thread, if nothing else at least serves to distinguish the clear and pronounced line between Satanists and followers of Satanism.

Certainly different animals!

I personally could not give a fuck what LaVey, or his family, or any damn one outside of my circle did or does or has secretly thought about doing. It doesn't matter to me, or Satanism as it pertains to me;which is the only damn context Satanism has any sort of meaning anyway. It's one of those things you either get or you don't
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#34719 - 01/28/10 09:11 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Dan_Dread]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
I understand your point 100% and a lot of the things we discuss are in fact... trivial..... Zeenas betrayal of her father, other people that could have been a better high priest, etc.... really have no REAL impact on our lives. But at the same time, although What LaVey thought or did, may not have an effect on what you feel or how you live your life now--- it in fact, DOES. Because had LaVey never founded the CoS or written TSB, then you would likely not have identified with Satanism in a modern sense.... Yes, you would most likely still be the same person and have the same views, but you would not be on a site like this today.

A lot of people fail to see the importance of the past. And although a lot of the things we say are just "blowing hot air", they do matter on some level. Gilmores ego has harmed Satanism overall.... maybe not in your life, or my life. But he has shaped or rather reshaped Satanism in a negative way. And long after you, or I, or Jake, or Dr. Aquino are gone, THAT will continue to evolve.

Just as people have long since forgotten the racial views of Lincoln and only remember the Emancipation Proclamation, or just as people have now forgotten MLK's personal life full of adultery, prostitutes and other flaws and only remember "I Have A Dream....", in the future, many people may not remember what the CoS was supposed to be about or what it was created to be.

And that is a shame, and YES, I am sorry to disagree, but I think it matters and I think that sites like this, that create chatter about these topics at least make an alternative view point accessible to those who might not otherwise ever venture from current CoS dogma.

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#34721 - 01/28/10 09:30 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: 111Cal]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
But at the same time, although What LaVey thought or did, may not have an effect on what you feel or how you live your life now--- it in fact, DOES. Because had LaVey never founded the COS or written TSB, then you would likely not have identified with Satanism in a modern sense.... Yes, you would most likely still be the same person and have the same views, but you would not be on a site like this today.

You are creating "what if" situations.
LaVey in reality DID define Satanism, he DID write the SB and he founded the CoS. A what if situation is out of question and only for importance to those who have nothing else to do.

Grow up, welcome to reality and learn to live with it.

 Quote:
Gilmores ego has harmed Satanism overall.... maybe not in your life, or my life. But he has shaped or rather reshaped Satanism in a negative way. And long after you, or I, or Jake, or Dr. Aquino are gone, THAT will continue to evolve.

And since you already (should) know that I and others don't give a fuck about, why bitch about it? Don't like the way things are going? Write a letter to him, I guess he'll love it.

 Quote:
Just as people have long since forgotten the racial views of Lincoln and only remember the Emancipation Proclamation, or just as people have now forgotten MLK's personal life full of adultery, prostitutes and other flaws and only remember "I Have A Dream....", in the future, many people may not remember what the COS was supposed to be about or what it was created to be.

To forget past events is a part of evolution. You can always reflect on those good ol' times, yet they will never and shall never happen again. You are feeling bad for having missed certain events? Shit happens, get over it.

And yes I am acting as an arrogant bastard, but I'm getting slightly sick of your worthless banter.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#34724 - 01/28/10 09:41 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Dimitri]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
Actually I have spoken with Peter Gilmore at various times over the years. I used to advertise in The Black Flame and we've always been cordial and I have in fact, expressed my views to him that the direction he is moving things is not the correct one. And of course, his ego will not allow him to even consider that he might be mistaken.

And I don't think you are an arrogant bastard at all. Nor do I think that any banter is worthless on these subjects. You would not believe how many emails I have gotten from people with similar views (many of them who are active in the current CoS today) and others who are new to Satanism and are glad that conversations like this take place... so that they realize that they are not alone with these questions and concerns.

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#34855 - 01/31/10 03:04 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
EvilDjinn Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 31
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane

Seriously, the majority of posts in the Satanism section seems to be variations on the post I quoted above.


I'm curious to know then if you have in fact been all through the LttD site? On all the forums? I ask because there's 25 forums showing, but the box at the bottom of the LttD page says that there are 73. No I don't imagine they do want to have long drawn out discussions with ever idiot in the world and put up a wall of Unwelcome to keep them out.

People want to discuss things with opposing viewpoints, want to argue, want to meet all these people that they don't necessarily agree with. That's fine, I engage in enough of that myself. But I think the intention of the LttD site is to discuss things in a purely Satanic context (Satanic as they define it, but Satanic nonetheless). Magic, books, art, whatever.

Honestly, I don't see why a Satanist wouldn't expel people that annoy them from their website. It's not like things that happen on the internet really matter that much. Why whine about it for the next twelve years?

To the starter of this thread, I think you missed the point on Gilmore's chapter on Fascism.

I think that Gilmore's book had certain gems in it worth noting, even if some of it was verbose rehashing of some material. The Music chapter was mentioned. The material written about New York (I enjoyed the account of the black out particularly). Watching old horror movies on TV. Of course he has a whole section on Magic (and an interesting chapter addressing the Satan) which are worth reading.

It's worth reading at the very least. Even if you disagree with it, at least it presents an opposing viewpoint.

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#34858 - 01/31/10 03:46 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: EvilDjinn]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
EvilDjinn:

I have mostly visited "general Satanism discussion" and the "CoS" part of the forum (The parts directly dealing with Satanism and Satanic philosophy. In there I rarely see any sort of discussion because they seem to value thinking alike as opposed to actually disagreeing on certain things and debate about them.

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#34894 - 02/01/10 12:43 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
EvilDjinn Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 31
So not to the fifty forums open only to CoS members?

Yes I quite agree that most of the stuff on the more immediately accessible parts of the forums seem to be less open for discussion (at least where members of the CoS hierarchy are concerned). But then most of the "discussions" that see this kind of response are usually some sort of basic idea. In fact, I think it happens quite a lot. Which is why I think there is a number of forums open only to discussion with members. I've never been on it, naturally, but it does suggest that there's more going on then we know.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on that site or the CoS in general. I don't really care what anybody does or thinks. But the reasoning is flawed and it's worth pointing out.

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#34905 - 02/01/10 03:05 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: EvilDjinn]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: EvilDjinn
So not to the fifty forums open only to CoS members?


Of course not. I am not a member. However if they can't debate Satanism philosophy or different interpretatons of it in the public forusm I actully think they can't in the private sections either. It's pretty much the sign of Gilmores church nowadays that one should agree with him and the higher up in every important question in regards to satanic philosophy. If not ne is banned (from the foum) or expelled (from the church).

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#34938 - 02/01/10 02:36 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: TheInsane]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
From what I have absorbed from Satanism and Anton LaVey, it is clear to me that I should be moving on to study other schools of thought. I am not going to limit myself to anyone else's set of rules. I take from Lavey, the Temple of Set, John Allee, anyone who strikes my fancy.
I found the section on music in the Satanic Scriptures interesting. Peter Gilmore sure does know his classical music, doesn't he. I like all kinds of music. I am a little disturbed about the "Iron Youth" thing. I was handed the Satanic Bible by my grandmother, but in no way did she say that this was the only way I should go. "Read it and make up your own mind" is all she said to me. Gilmore does admit that more numbers means more political clout. Guess what. I could not care less about politics. Also, raising kids at this point is the furthest thing from my mind.
Don Webb said in his book THE ESSENTIAL GUIDE TO THE LHP that the most important thing to the magician is freedom. I wholeheartedly agree with this. If someone starts pushing their rules on me, their names are crossed out of my cool book. I don't even like it when someone aggressively asserts something with me that I happen to agree with.
The Satanic Scriptures sure does look rather neat. I like the cover, I bought the hard bound edition. Currently I am taking a stab at Aleister Crowley's MAGIC IN THEORY AND PRACTICE. I also recently acquired THE WITCHES BIBLE By Janet and Stewart Farrar.
These books are not quick reads, I consider them to be more like reference books than anything else.

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#57978 - 08/05/11 12:59 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Satansfarm]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
-general reply using quick post-

I noticed the other thread which was locked and pointed to this thread... I went looking and the Book is now available for $9.43 via amazon ... I'm going to pick it up and give it a once over. I will then be able to contribute more afterwards other than a price drop.
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

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#57996 - 08/06/11 09:34 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Wicked Satanist]
Goliath Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 93
It's not a bad book. In fact, overall, I thought the quality of the essays in The Satanic Scriptures was higher than the quality of the essays in LaVey's Satan Speaks. And it certainly is handsome.

But I've only read it once, and nothing Gilmore says really sticks out in my mind. The worst thing I could say about it is that there didn't seem to be anything new therein.

What's more, this absence of novelty seems to be inherent in Gilmore's whole project. From what I understand, Gilmore sees Satanism as a closed system. Anton LaVey said everything that needed to be said, and Gilmore's job as High Priest is simply to clarify, to recapitulate, and to defend CoS orthodoxy.

Of course, his actual role is much more interventionist than that. All meaning is attributed, and Gilmore's interpretation of LaVey's writings is just one possibility among many. But his own position and authority seem to depend heavily on presenting himself as the faithful disciple of the Master, and the accurate interpreter of LaVey's words--the true Satanic Scriptures.

As a result, Gilmore's own book might have been more accurately titled The Satanic Talmud. It's commentary--nothing more.
_________________________
An illusion--with intelligence! A malignant vision, with a will of pure evil!

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#58681 - 08/28/11 06:12 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Goliath]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
I reread Satanic Scriptures two times from cover to cover and many times some essays (chapters). I found this book not only good for beginners.

I recommend Satanic Scriptures for everyone!

The book was useful for me to develop my satanic stance and I never read it legalistic! It means - I accept useful thoughts.

When we are beginners of some philosophy we accept everything or reject everything. When my children were young I gave nuts with shells, they putted them in mouth without thinking... and they thought – nuts are bad and nothing good is there. They even told their friends that nuts are terrible and none can eat them… Now we have in Latvia hazelnut season. We go in wood and pick up nuts and before eating they crash nuts and get great core... They don’t think badly of hazelnuts. Satanism is individualistic philosophy. We can take from 'Satanic Scriptures' delicious core!
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

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#70974 - 09/18/12 05:02 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Latvian]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
To The OP: The goal of a book review is to give a fair reading and analysis of the text. I still plan to review this book at a later date, but what I just read was pretty pitiful. Several posters tried to salvage it, but you continued to focus on matters of family privacy. I have read the book. It ain't in it. I'll scrutinize the text, but this is bullshit.
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

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#71016 - 09/18/12 11:07 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: 111Cal]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
I never have read the Satanic Scriptures either. And for the same reason. It never interested me. Gilmore is like Anton's mini me. Just kinda goes around trying to look and sound like Anton. I flipped through it in a PDF file. And I saw nothing to hold my interest.
_________________________
http://satanicinternationalnetwork.com/

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#71766 - 10/11/12 03:52 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: Zach_Black]
aerial_dc Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 79
I definitely have something to say about the Fascist aspect of the Satanic Scriptures.

I'm reading the book now. I was just reading "The Fascism Question" and like other parts in the book so far, it made me want to set the thing on fire.

Yet again Gilmore lets me know that he doesn't want to be "Required to pay for wastrels who want a free ride". He calls the "Satanic elite" a "political pipedream". He mentions the Founding Fathers of America and how they "did not grant freedom to everyone" mentioning the slaves. He says more about democratic "mob rule" being "intolerable", then says "We Satanists" have the same opinion of the masses as the "Founding Fathers". He says all this on the same page as he says the Church of Satan is "Not Political".

Then I was reading all the posts in this thread and FUCK! He will revoke your red card for being on a message board?
I'm hardly political but something is very wrong here.

I APPRECIATE the work he's put into making Anton LaVey's ideas available, and represented in mainstream media. I do appreciate that there IS an organization promoting Satanism in a major way so people have more access to it. Peter Gilmore does do good work which is why I was so interested in his ideas. I will say this book represents his ideas well.
_________________________
Not about to see your light.

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#71783 - 10/11/12 03:38 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: aerial_dc]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
Fascism is a political theory and praxis. It is a way of ordering government and society. It cannot logically apply to private organizations (unless they specifically state this as an exoteric goal). Gilmore expresses what I would describe as a libertarian viewpoint of government and society. The rules for association and disassociation from a private organization are given a lot of latitude (under both his views and even current law for the most part). There are plenty of reasons to not associate with this specific organization. Calling them "fascists" is simply inaccurate. They are not a political organization. Their members can be of any political persuasion. Gilmore seems to admonish his members not to fall into "political pipedreams" ie he doesn't see a satanic vanguard coming to power.

Edited by Le Deluge (10/11/12 04:03 PM)
Edit Reason: Grammatical Torture! Caffeine Drip Required!
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

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#71809 - 10/11/12 10:18 PM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: aerial_dc]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1146
Loc: Amarillo, TX
 Originally Posted By: aerial_dc
He calls the "Satanic elite" a "political pipedream".

Only insofar as those "Satanic elite" are envisioned to be the masters of political workings.

 Originally Posted By: aerial_dc
Yet again Gilmore lets me know that he doesn't want to be "Required to pay for wastrels who want a free ride".

Oh noes! The horror! The horror!

 Originally Posted By: aerial_dc
He mentions the Founding Fathers of America and how they "did not grant freedom to everyone" mentioning the slaves. He says more about democratic "mob rule" being "intolerable", then says "We Satanists" have the same opinion of the masses as the "Founding Fathers".

The general gist is that both the Founding Fathers and Satanists shared a "low opinion of the masses," as represented by a desire for a Republic over a direct democracy. This isn't endorsing slavery, just elitism.

The principle behind a Republic was "majority rule with minority rights protected." Democracy cuts minority rights straight out of the equation. The lowest common denominator reflexively desires to destroy the different. One who openly identifies as Satanist is likely to wish to avoid the lynch mob by enacting a political system that respected individual rights.

In short,
 Originally Posted By: Gilmore
So we come ‘round at last to that question: “Is Satanism fascism?” The answer depends upon your definition of that term. If fascism is understood to be the totalitarian system of government enslaving its subjects to serve the state in drab conformity, then the answer is a resounding “NO!” However, if fascism is merely a loose epithet tossed at those who do uphold standards for excellence in human achievement in all arenas of endeavor, then we’ll wear THAT as a badge of honor. We, who embrace Satan as our emblem, don’t need no stinking good guy badges!

I'm not seeing a problem. I'm not exactly Gilmore's biggest fan, but I don't take umbrage at that.
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#71818 - 10/12/12 01:41 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: XiaoGui17]
aerial_dc Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/01/12
Posts: 79
XiaoGui17,
The writings of Peter Gilmore are too elitist for my taste. His opinions give me the impression that he's never experienced poverty, which is fine, except that when he mentions it he appears sheltered. It actually does seem as though he feels literal slaves deserve there place in life(as I interpret his writings) and I don't agree at all. If it's true he would ban a CoS member for being on this website, that's to elitist for me as well. I also feel this goes against LaVey's ideas about Satanists being nonconformists.

I'm not here to trash Peter Gilmore though, or talk about Politics. I was simply responding to the original topic. I've already voiced my opinion on this and don't wish to go on about it.
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#71832 - 10/12/12 05:01 AM Re: Got Gilmores SATANIC SCRIPTURES as a gift.... [Re: aerial_dc]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
Elitism is part of the gig as far as LaVeyan Satanism goes. There really is no way around it. I can't say I know (or care) what the author's background is. He did put in some effort to get to where he wanted to be. He holds advanced degrees in music composition and theory from NYU. I suppose this is how I would relate to him. The section on music is fantastic. I saw nothing in the text to suggest an actual approval of slavery. This would also be inconsistent with the overall social and political views being proffered. There are plenty of reasons not to join this organization. They are not related to this unusual textual interpretation.
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