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#36827 - 03/21/10 12:55 AM Temple of Set General Information Letter [Re: exadust]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: exadust
In the clarifiaction section of said letter it states that some Satanists views are just a synthesis of simple-minded Xitian propaganda and Hollywood movies. My question is: Are you sure your view isn't simple-minded?

I think you have taken the above passage out of its proper context. A discussion of Setian philosophy, including its evolution from the 1966-75 Church of Satan, takes place elsewhere in the General Information Letter.

Here is the passage you cited, in its actual context:

 Quote:
AN IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION

Regretfully there still exist some individuals whose idea of “Satanism” is largely a simple-minded synthesis of Christian propaganda and Hollywood horror movies. The Temple of Set enjoys the colorful legacy of the Black Arts, and we use many forms of historical Satanic imagery for our artistic stimulation and pleasure. But we have not found that any interest or activity which an enlightened, mature intellect would regard as undignified, sadistic, criminal, or depraved is desirable, much less essential to our work.

The Temple of Set is an evolutionary product of human experience. Such experience includes the magical and philosophical work of many occult individuals and organizations which have preceded us. Some of these were socially acceptable by contemporary or modern standards; others were not. Some made brilliant discoveries in one field of interest while blighting their reputations with shocking excesses or tragic failures in others. In examining the secret and suppressed corners of history for valuable and useful material, the Temple insists upon ethical presentation and use of such discoveries as it makes. Setians who are in any doubt as to the ethics involved in any of the fields which we explore should seek counsel from the Priesthood. All Setians are further expected to display a high measure of maturity and common sense in this area.

The Black Arts are dangerous in the same way that working with volatile chemicals is dangerous. This is most emphatically not a field for unstable, immature, or otherwise emotionally or intellectually weak-minded people. Such are a hazard to themselves and to others with whom they come into contact. The Temple endeavors to not admit them to begin with. If such an individual should gain admittance and later be exposed, he will be summarily expelled. In cases of doubt the Temple may be expected to place the burden of proof on the individual, for the sake of all Setians and the Temple’s integrity.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#36828 - 03/21/10 01:09 AM The Neteru and Set [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
Like Meq I was a little confused by the likening of Set to a Platonic Form. So, like Meq, I am going to pose the same question: So is Set an actual anthropomorphic being which has similar emotions to humans (such as dismay and surprise), or an impersonal Platonic Form? Hopefully this time we can get an actual answer.

As just mentioned to Meq, I see no reason to repeat myself, especially within the same thread. I responded to that here, to include a referral to the more extensive discussion of neteru generally and Set specifically in my Temple of Set ebook. Supplementing these are numerous publications as identified in the text, and generally in related categories of the Temple of Set Reading List (included as an appendix of TOS).
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#36830 - 03/21/10 01:17 AM Re: Temple of Set General Information Letter [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
If I took it out of context or not it implies that Satanist's engage in criminal and otherwise counterproductive activities.

And again I can't speak for all Satanists but I don't partake in such activities and anyone who perpetrates in such activities knows nothing about true Satanism in the first place.

It's as ridiculous as blaming Heavy Metal for violence at concerts.

If someone is idiotic enough to do something stupid it is on themselves as an individual and shouldn't be blamed on music or a philosophy that they don't even have the criteria to meet.
_________________________
Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36834 - 03/21/10 03:04 AM Luke, you have stepped into a larger universe. [Re: Meq]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Meq
... The reader sufficiently distracted with enough red herrings, and the fact that many serious points made have been rhetorically dodged is no longer apparent. This immediately shifts the focus away from a dangerous rational critique of Setianism to something a lot safer. Wisecracks, deep-sounding quotes and self-quotes, pop-cultural references (George Lucas provides a veritable goldmine), and perhaps a bit of verse, form a powerful substitute for 'dry' rational debate, and of course to many is far more interesting and appealing. The aim of such a strategy is to "sell" an idea, not act as an unbiased seeker after truth - although it helps to give the illusion of the latter.

And this is "the flight of stairs that wound into the sky" ...

Creative/imaginative expression can be merely entertaining or playful, as in my response above to Morgan and my Madam Mim poke at MawhrinSkel. But in other instances it can be a magical mirror of the psyche: a GBM working of tremendous power. History is replete with such workings and the immortality of the magicians who wrought them - in paint, in stone, in music, in writing, in film, and perhaps in other dimensions we have yet to discover and appreciate.

This was essentially what aroused my curiosity concerning the poetry ban here: because some of the greatest statements and visions of Satanism and Black Magic are to be found therein. Nor, I think, is it wise to discourage the first, often faltering steps of fledgling magicians as they dare to explore these realms. Help them not to stumble, of course. But lock them into that much smaller a universe, no.

Since the subject of Star Wars came up, I might offer my own GBM working with it, The Dark Side, as a case-study in point.

In 1977 I saw in George Lucas' film an essay on a great many traditional and heroic themes, all of which he quite openly acknowledged at the time: damsel in distress, villain, youth seeking his destiny, gunfighter, sage, comedians, chase scenes, and so on. But more to my interest, and not so intentionally preplanned by George, was the macrovision, on a galactic scale, of the interrelationship between political institutions (the Empire and the Rebellion), military establishments, and an initiatory school of magicians (the Jedi).

In 1977 I had a personal involvement in these same three camps: as a Political Scientist, a military officer, and a Setian. Reconciliation of these was a constant challenge, not always or easily achieved. Among my various approaches to this, it occurred to me to use Star Wars as a fictional laboratory, a GBM working in the SU, to explore and test various interactions of this "triangle". And so I began to write The Dark Side, which was a contemplative working extending in fragments over several years.

As mentioned in its Preface, it gradually became a working in which I was more spectator and student than intentional author. The identified, unleashed forces drove events as they demanded, and the characters found themselves more often reactive than active. From my godlike position "above the page", I began to realize what a god could and could not do - unless, as in the myth of the Deluge, I was prepared just to tear up the entire manuscript.

All of which is to say that when here I have occasionally referred respondents to The Dark Side, it is far from being a "dodge". Those who take the time to journey through it will find numerous illustrations, investigations, and experiments echoing those in this galaxy, this planet, today. It was not an odyssey in which everything came out right in the end, or in which all of the issues raised were answered; but then GBM workings rarely are. I found it exhausting, but equally enlightening. Of equal fascination to me has been how many other people - also from one or more points on that triangle - have found it meaningful to them.

"Bow down," said Clark Ashton Smith at the beginning of his The Hashish-Eater, "I am the emperor of dreams." This, if you dare to be a Black Magician, is what you too will be: a god, a creator of universes, Nietzsche's "horizon-builder", and ... someone in evening dress, with your sleeves rolled back.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#36842 - 03/21/10 06:34 AM Re: Set wants your brain. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3113
 Quote:
So is Set an actual anthropomorphic being which has similar emotions to humans (such as dismay and surprise), or an impersonal Platonic Form?

If I can throw in my two cents..

While not being an initiate in Setian philosophy, I think Set isn't an anthromorphic being nor an impersonal Platonic form.
Set is just what it is, Set; a Universal "being"/philosophical mechanism linked with the concept of xeper.

Perhaps Set is not anthromorphic but a plain old pokémon ...
Or maybe it is even more simple and Set just "is" without any feature.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#36860 - 03/21/10 04:05 PM Re: Luke, you have stepped into a larger universe. [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Chandler Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 36
Whether Set is a Platonic Form or a person, I would be curious to learn what the experience of receiving his message was like. It seems that this could go some distance to explain his nature to the layman. It is you, Dr. Aquino, who is supposed to have received the BofCFbyN, right? Could you describe your direct experience, if it is not too privileged?

From what I understand, your cosmology is supposed to be consistent with Crowley's. Should this suggest to me that your experience was similar to his reception of Aiwaz?

Of course, if I am totally out of line to ask such a question I will respectfully retract it.

I certainly hope that others here, regardless of their personal beliefs, would value hearing this story more than getting some Scientologist's autograph.

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#36871 - 03/21/10 09:12 PM The North Solstice X Working [Re: Chandler]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Chandler
Whether Set is a Platonic Form or a person, I would be curious to learn what the experience of receiving his message was like. It seems that this could go some distance to explain his nature to the layman. It is you, Dr. Aquino, who is supposed to have received the BofCFbyN, right? Could you describe your direct experience, if it is not too privileged?

Please see Chapter #2 of my Temple of Set.

 Quote:
From what I understand, your cosmology is supposed to be consistent with Crowley's. Should this suggest to me that your experience was similar to his reception of Aiwaz?

Please see Appendices #3 & #5 of the same TOS.

 Quote:
Of course, if I am totally out of line to ask such a question I will respectfully retract it.

Not in the least, but a thorough response to your questions would be a bit too long for a post here; and this is one of the reasons I'm doing the ebook (which still has a long way to go).
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#36872 - 03/21/10 09:27 PM The Cairo Working [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: MawhrinSkel
Crowley allegedly wrote his text through some kind of religious fit, where the text was dictated to him.

Not exactly; see his account of the Cairo Working in The Confessions, as well as Appendix #5 of my Temple of Set.

 Quote:
As far as I understand Aquino's account, he wrote his text in a completely lucid state.

Yes, that's true.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#36873 - 03/21/10 09:43 PM Re: The North Solstice X Working [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Just to say that, yes I understand what Dr Aquino is saying (at least from the point of view of my own subjective experience). This sort of encounter completely changes one's idea of "reality" for ever and forces one to apprehend new dimensions.
Are the beings from these dimensions objectively "real"? I would suggest that yes, they are within their own environment. When "we" see them the experience is invariably subjective as we are alone, physically and mentally when it happens. No other observer can be appealed to; an amanuensis may be present to write down dictation and observations but they will (probably) not be directly apprehending the phenomenon. What makes the experience so different from, say, meeting a man in a bar is that it leaves a feeling of having been shown that "this" is not all we have. Further confirmation of the validity of the experience will show later in the usual ways - synchronicity and effects on the life of the magician, both interior and exterior. In effect, the encounter is an unsought initiation.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#36876 - 03/21/10 10:33 PM Re: The North Solstice X Working [Re: felixgarnet]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet
Just to say that, yes I understand what Dr Aquino is saying (at least from the point of view of my own subjective experience). This sort of encounter completely changes one's idea of "reality" for ever and forces one to apprehend new dimensions ...

Your points well-taken. As detailed in Chapter #2 of TOS, in addition to my own SU experience, my analysis of same (Appendix #3), and the evident impact of the NS Working on many other Setians both at that time and subsequently to date, I was also interested in the OU apprehension of such phenomena generally, and found a useful analytical framework in Graham Reed's The Psychology of Anomalous Experience. It remains on the Temple Reading List as a valuable asset to GBM workings.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#36895 - 03/22/10 12:33 PM Re: Luke, you have stepped into a larger universe. [Re: Chandler]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Of course, if I am totally out of line to ask such a question I will respectfully retract it.


I lol'ed.

NOTHING is or should be off limits from questioning. Only a fool would take such an account for truth at face value.

I would like to think that this is all a big joke and Aquino is laughing all the way to the bank to everyone who buys into the story but part of me can't help but think that he is delusional and actually believes Set talked to him. Aquino is an intelligent man, I will give him that much, but there is fine line between genius and insanity.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#36900 - 03/22/10 02:55 PM Re: Luke, you have stepped into a larger universe. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Chandler Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 36
 Quote:
Quote:
Of course, if I am totally out of line to ask such a question I will respectfully retract it.


I lol'ed.

NOTHING is or should be off limits from questioning. Only a fool would take such an account for truth at face value.

I see the humor myself. I expected Dr. Aquino to have as big a head as I would if I had amassed a cult of followers who believed I was the "Magus of the Aeon", and believed myself to be as well, even if an Aeon only lasts for most of a century.

 Quote:
I would like to think that this is all a big joke and Aquino is laughing all the way to the bank to everyone who buys into the story but part of me can't help but think that he is delusional and actually believes Set talked to him. Aquino is an intelligent man, I will give him that much, but there is fine line between genius and insanity.

After reading what he suggested to me above, I am convinced that he at least believes TheBofCFbyN to be revealed/inspired/whatever. He doesn't claim to have witnessed anything supernatural, only to have a "sensation" that the information was coming from a higher being. If he had claimed to have seen Aiwaz standing in the corner like Crowley did, I would estimate a higher probability that he was outright lying (and also a higher probability that he was hallucinating).

But it is in this very same reassurance where I find my doubts. For if he didn't witness anything supernatural, why would he himself not doubt his own "sensation". I have not read the Bof CFbyN, but I would be pleasantly surprised if it submitted anything beyond Dr. Aquino's own conceptions.

Crowley claimed to have been revolted by the morality of the Book of the Law, but a brief reference to his own morality shows this to be unlikely.

I draw no conclusions, but if I had to venture a guess, I would say Dr. Aquino is being honest, but mistaken.

Edit: Whereas Crowley may have been laughing all the way to the bank.


Edited by Chandler (03/22/10 02:58 PM)
Edit Reason: wanted to add something.

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#36901 - 03/22/10 03:31 PM "Ejector seat? You're joking!" [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
I would like to think that this is all a big joke ...

I never joke about my work, 007.

 Quote:
... and Aquino is laughing all the way to the bank.

The Temple of Set is a nonprofit California corporation in which the High Priesthood of Set is an unpaid office. Cf. Appendices #7 & #8 of TOS. Nor, as evident on my webpage, are any of my writings for sale. Interviews (when I accepted them, during my High Priesthood) were always unpaid. I have declined all interview requests since my retirement from the HP in 1996.

 Quote:
Aquino is an intelligent man, I will give him that much, but there is fine line between genius and insanity.

"There is no great genius without a mixture of madness." - Aristotle

"Madness in great ones must not unwatched go." - William Shakespeare

"Truly great madness can not be achieved without significant intelligence." - Henrik Tikkanen

"Great wits are sure to madness near allied, and thin partitions do their bounds divide." - John Dryden
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#36902 - 03/22/10 05:25 PM Re: Luke, you have stepped into a larger universe. [Re: Chandler]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
He doesn't claim to have witnessed anything supernatural, only to have a "sensation" that the information was coming from a higher being.


So you don't think that receiving information from a "higher being" counts as supernatural? That sounds pretty supernatural to me. I hear voices in my head too, the thing is, the voice I hear is my own. I don't pretend that what I am hearing is coming from outside my own brain and I certainly don't think it is that of some higher being.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#36903 - 03/22/10 05:27 PM Re: "Ejector seat? You're joking!" [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Okay, so it isn't some scam and you really believe all that stuff. So that means you are not a scam artist, you just bat-shit crazy.

"The world of madness is a lot bigger than the world of the sane." Charles Manson
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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