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#35369 - 02/09/10 10:31 PM Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men
MelanosDivinity Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/08/10
Posts: 29
Loc: Port Gibson, Mississippi
Why must anyone strive to seek approval of their fellow men? Why should I want to seek your approval? Is who I am not enough? As a newbie I would hope that other newbies would not go those extra lengths to seek approval from those they do not know, this is not the objective. The objective in my opinion is not to seek approval from your fellow men but to first seek approval within yourself. Without inner approval their is no external approval. I have taken the liberty of deciding that who I am is enough for me and if it is not enough for others then I guess they will have to just cry me a river.

To summarize, my prerogative is not to judge others, but to first judge myself, who I am will automatically confer judgement upon others.



Edited by MelanosDivinity (02/09/10 10:32 PM)
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Take your OWN pen, draw your OWN path.-denmark

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#35406 - 02/10/10 11:27 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: MelanosDivinity]
Noctuary Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/01/10
Posts: 92
Hmm. I like judging. Both me and others. I am one judgmental woman. I guess I don't see anything wrong with it. I judge if the milk is good by the smell. And I judge a person I meet by their meeting of my eyes and their hand shakes.

Though I get not wanting or caring about approval of others. If that were totally true.. I wouldn't put makeup on in the morning. I want others to not only approve me..but to be completely taken by me.


Yeah, this post went nowhere. Sorry about that.
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Devils speak of the way in which she'll manifest

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#35412 - 02/10/10 11:43 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: MelanosDivinity]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
You have the ability to judge yourself, but the human mind is self-delusional in nature and it takes a great amount of will to have the right mindset to see yourself as you are trough others eyes.

The question is not if you, or another person, should seek approval. The question is how to represent yourself and to carry the fruits of it. It can be seen as "seeking approval", but when it boils down to personal level, it becomes nothing more then presentation and "feeling" of the self.

Knowing who you are and approving the standards you have laid upon yourself are not always enough. It might be a great way to stand firm when personal attacks are given, but it will not help you to maintain the same position when it comes to events or positions wherein approval of others is needed (ex: bussiness/work).

A person can claim not to follow up to other persons standards for various reasons, yet there will always be situations in which you will need to match up and to be approved if you want to have it easy and/or comfortable.


Edited by Dimitri (02/10/10 11:45 AM)
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#35419 - 02/10/10 12:49 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: MelanosDivinity]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Quote:
Why must anyone strive to seek approval of their fellow men? Why should I want to seek your approval?


If you desire or are required to work with another person, or a loosely-bound group of people, gaining their approval makes for a better relationship. This translates to less effort on your part. Approval is usually not *required* in this case, but it usually make things easier. Choose as you wish.

Groups that are tightly-bound usually have their approval as a prerequisite to joining the group (whatever "joining" equates to for them). If you want in, you need the approval. Again, choose as you wish.

Other than that, you don't need their approval.

 Quote:
Is who I am not enough?


No, from their point of view. Remember that almost everyone will judge you according to themselves. See above.

Yes, from your point of view. Know thyself, and either be content with who you are or change yourself. In the end, you are the only one you need to make happy.

 Quote:
I have taken the liberty of deciding that who I am is enough for me and if it is not enough for others then I guess they will have to just cry me a river.


Self-pity is pointless. They will not cry for you - they will ignore you.

You are your own god. Understand both sides of that statement.
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An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

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#35447 - 02/10/10 08:55 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: MelanosDivinity]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



The smart people (in my view) are always discriminating, judging and discerning others in order to size them up; to see how they tick; to see what use they can have, and whether they can be friends, allies, innocent bystanders or potential enemies.

It would seem that inner approval means that you have a sense of self awareness and self acceptance for who you are?

To seek the approval of others or not? Let the specific situation dictate the approach.

I would agree with Dimitri that acquiring genuine self – awareness can be a difficult, but essential to your success.

You determine your strategy because you know who you are and what will work, given who you are and the target to be acquired.

I want approval as Noctuary states. I want to command the right viewer to look and to be held in place and to be convinced and be ready to agree with me and act in accordance with my will.

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#36671 - 03/17/10 09:40 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: MelanosDivinity]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
I choose who I need approval from. If they have something I desire I'll show them a little of what they want.

As far as people that serve me no purpose it doesn't matter if they approve of me or not.

And when I get all I can get out of someone they get to see my true colors if they so deserve it.
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Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36764 - 03/19/10 03:20 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Miss May Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 66
Loc: sebastopol, CA
Seeking approval is useless for those who seek unconditional love. They will simply continue to pine for something without putting the effort in to get what they want.

An individual will continue to mold themselves and put effort into achieving their goals.

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#37597 - 04/14/10 10:35 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: MelanosDivinity]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
I seek the approval of others every day – at work, at home, with my friends, etc. I seek their approval because if they approve of me, they’re more likely to give me what I want. Seeking approval is an essential component of lesser magic. It’s how I shape the world around me to conform to my wishes.

This is, of course, quite different from seeking approval for self validation. If others don’t approve of me, I shouldn’t consider that a reflection of my self worth. However, it might be worth my time to consider why they don’t approve of me and if there’s something I should do about it. It all comes down to what’s in my best interest.
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#38156 - 04/28/10 03:30 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: William Wright]
Caliga Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 16
I judge and discriminate all the time. In fact, I find I get in trouble the most when I ignore or refute my own instincts about a given person.

As for judging myself, I evaluate continuously. Only by checking "where I am at" can I determine the most effective path to progress how I desire.

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#38187 - 04/29/10 10:03 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Caliga]
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I am far less worried about acceptance than I am respect. I care not if people approve of who or what they believe me to be, as long as I hold their respect. There is at least one guy I know at work that is down right scared of me, but I ask him to do something he does it without delay. In fact, I've learned he's made keeping me happy an extremely high priority because he found out I was a Satanist and is afraid to piss me off. I don't hold a position of authority, not everyone there likes me, but almost every single one of them listens carefully when I have something to say.

However, different situations do give cause for different tactics. If I'm at a club or a party, meeting somebody for the very first time, or doing an job interview, I may focus much more on acceptance to ease the creation of whatever type of relationship I may desire from the person. Yet at work and everyday life, I have found respect far more important. Acceptance, for me at least, is almost a non-issue until I choose to win their acceptance to achieve a certain goal.
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Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself. Mickey Mouse

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#38206 - 05/01/10 10:36 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
There have been several times when doing business that I could not make a deal because the client did not like my beliefs. Satanism scares people. Sometimes I will tuck my pendant under my shirt. There are other times when I don't like the situation anyway, so I don't care what the other person thinks. Also, just because someone is a pagan or a Thelemite or a Satanist doesn't mean that I am going to like them. If I don't like someone, I might not tell it to their face, but I will avoid them. Life is too short.
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#38253 - 05/03/10 06:52 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Lucifer Rising]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
Lucifer Rising, I think you may be confusing respect with intimidation. Don’t get me wrong, intimidation can be an important tool in one’s arsenal. However, people who respect you will stand by you when the going gets tough. I have a feeling that if the going got tough for you, your fellow workers would shit all over you. Intimidation breeds resentment, and it can bite you in the ass if you’re not careful.

As for telling those at work that you are a Satanist, I think you’re playing with fire. I would thoroughly assess the situation before revealing that. Good luck.
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#38262 - 05/03/10 10:57 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: William Wright]
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Don't worry William. I'm not going around declaring my Satanism. The only person intimidated by me in that sort of fashion is the one I spoke of. He only knows because a coworker was over at my house and saw my Satanic literature and he told him. It is more of a rumor at this point except for a few who bothered to ask. I am not confusing respect for intimidation. They respect me for my intelligence and my abilities and have long before any of them have heard anything of my Satanism. Some of these people are deeply rooted in my social network already and I already know I am able to count on them from experience. The point is most people there trust me enough to stand behind me. I just kind of laugh at the one that's actually intimidated by me. I even hung out with him a bit this weekend over at a friend's house because he just showed up. He was all jumpy and nervous. I thought it was funny. Most of the people at work I see around all the time because we mostly all have mutual friends somewhere. These are not people completely unfamiliar with the way I think.
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Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself. Mickey Mouse

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#38396 - 05/09/10 09:01 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Lucifer Rising]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
LR, you may want to consider taking the jumpy one in, so to speak, as a kind of project. Find out what makes him this way. Is he only jumpy around you, or is he jumpy in general? Perhaps deep down he is fascinated by you, but this fascination manifests itself rather awkwardly as jumpiness. Is he a smart guy, perhaps a bit nerdy, or is he dull?

I suggest this project not as an act of benevolence toward him but as a learning experience for you. I’ve found that those who have a strong emotional reaction to me often turn out to be a valuable resource as a friend/enemy. Might there be something gained by a relationship with him? Maybe there’s more to him than meets the eye. Just a thought.
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#38405 - 05/09/10 02:58 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: William Wright]
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Thanks Will. I've been trying to do this a little bit already. He's funny as shit and actually kind of cool to hang out with. He seems like one of those people that just naturally tries to make sure everyone likes him. Or maybe he actually is trying really hard. He does seem a bit aware of this, tho I do not think he's fully conscious of it. I am fairly certain he identifies himself as Christian, yet I can't say that with total conviction. So I'm thinking, once he found out about my Satanism, his Christian beliefs started conflicting with his natural tendencies. It does seem he's letting his guard down a bit. As I seem to be correct about his desire to be accepted, it shouldn't be too difficult.
_________________________
Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself. Mickey Mouse

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#40290 - 07/15/10 12:51 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
Since I am at odds most of the time with the people around me, it would be foolish to seek their approval. It took me a few years to learn this lesson. I was raised to be a good horsewhipped Catholic, after all. I swallowed whole all that peace love hippy crap during the 60's and 70's. Reality is that people are opportunistic and when it comes to things that are desirable, they will use every trick in the book to get them. Let's face it, the good stuff is in short supply and if you are not quick enough, brutal enough, or cunning enough, you will be fighting over the scraps. Worse case scenario, you will get nothing but injuries. There are points at which absolutely no one else can be trusted.
Do I seek approval? Sure I do, when I want something in return.
Am I perfect in my ascertaining situations of profit and gain? No, I'm not. I can get stung. Am I a vindictive son of a bitch? You better believe it.

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#42598 - 08/28/10 04:59 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Satansfarm]
XBlackXScorpionX Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 24
Loc: Arizona
Approval can be a powerful and readily obtainable tool. Because of my likeable personality I gain it and maintain it easily. I use my good approval ratings to get a lot out of people; for example, tools, knowledge, special privileges, promotions, “those photos her husband and my wife will never know about” the list is goes on. Add it to the arsenal if it’s something you can do well. You never know when it’ll be advantageous for someone to have a good opinion of you.
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#42620 - 08/29/10 06:06 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: XBlackXScorpionX]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
I am Initiated to a sublime life of humility, labor, service, gratitude, and practice. What each of these five axioms signify would entail elaboration greater than is needed. So, I'm not going to bother with detailing how each principle unfolded into the manifoldness which is summarized as just merely One. Each provided maxims to synthesize a unique life, one without regret as to how I live it. After intense supra-mental feats which span five years to date (but have been going on for my entire life), extraneous matter as well as spiritual is replete to a corollary position or status. Hence, all suprafluous outflowings are no longer a threat or occupy concern in my well-Being which is of primary importance to myself. This conscious-force is a sustaining vigor which is Absolute Existence to my integral, continual life. My Intelligence, Bliss, Will, Knowledge, and Action have gone through a metamorphisis which is self-realized as a restoration of spatio-temporal sensations of movement and change. I am spang (completed).

There are a plethora of people to thank for placing me in a trenchant terminus that was-is-will be evolving and involving a Monistic life that is at this place in time and will be torpid to all of my percipient senses. The right, other kind of individuals are a moot point which does not involve any processing beyond themselves as humans.

Ciao
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tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#42621 - 08/29/10 06:34 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: paolo sette]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: paolo sette
I am Initiated to a sublime life of humility, labor, service, gratitude, and practice ...


That all sounds suspiciously RHP. Or like the philosophy version of the Dilbert mission statement generator.

Hm, maybe I could write a perl version, with high-falutin' words and complicated metaphors ...

Oh, and:

 Originally Posted By: paolo sette
I am spang (completed).


you misspelled "spam".
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An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

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#42634 - 08/30/10 08:35 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: paolo sette]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: paolo sette
I am Initiated to a sublime life of humility, labor, service, gratitude, and practice. What each of these five axioms signify would entail elaboration greater than is needed. So, I'm not going to bother with detailing how each principle unfolded into the manifoldness which is summarized as just merely One. Each provided maxims to synthesize a unique life, one without regret as to how I live it. After intense supra-mental feats which span five years to date (but have been going on for my entire life), extraneous matter as well as spiritual is replete to a corollary position or status. Hence, all suprafluous outflowings are no longer a threat or occupy concern in my well-Being which is of primary importance to myself. This conscious-force is a sustaining vigor which is Absolute Existence to my integral, continual life. My Intelligence, Bliss, Will, Knowledge, and Action have gone through a metamorphisis which is self-realized as a restoration of spatio-temporal sensations of movement and change. I am spang (completed).

There are a plethora of people to thank for placing me in a trenchant terminus that was-is-will be evolving and involving a Monistic life that is at this place in time and will be torpid to all of my percipient senses. The right, other kind of individuals are a moot point which does not involve any processing beyond themselves as humans.

Ciao


I know we're not suppose to use one-liners, so I'll try to extend this as far as possible.
I have but one question for you Paolo Sette.
Do you talk like this in real life? I hope for the sake of the people around you that you don't.
If you were looking for acceptance by using a plethora of elaborate words that actually stated absolutely nothing about the topic....
Well...
Oh........Never mind.
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If only just for today.....

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#42635 - 08/30/10 10:59 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Nyte]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
He has been banned before for such behaviour. Some just don't want to learn I guess.
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#42729 - 09/03/10 03:27 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Autodidact]
Euronymous Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 46
Loc: san diego, ca
I concur. People will always judge others and deem them "acceptable" or "not acceptable" according to whatever "standards" they have put forth. As Your own God, You choose - with a discriminating eye ;\) - to gain the approval of whomever you decide as it benefits you as an individual. We all judge and seek approval in given circumstances, but I would like to think that the Satanist does this from a stand point of "lesser magic" for His or Her own personal gain.
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" And in the secret caves of my wisdom, it is known that there is no God but Me. "

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#42733 - 09/03/10 01:55 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Euronymous]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
It's one thing to judge. But a lot of people do it without looking into the person or subject they're judging. People tend to judge based on face value - no pun - or by heresay from others. Before a person judges, research what or who it is you're judging. Turn it inside out. Look at it from every possible angle. Then, after you've exhausted every possibility, form your judgement.
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"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

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#42734 - 09/03/10 01:56 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Euronymous]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I agree that it is necessary that people approve of you in certain situations.

I do contract work so I do have to play the game and subtly manipulate people into liking me. Although being able to do your job is essential, being liked by the ones hiring you, or those you work with, is more important than most people realize. You can be an ace at what you do, if people think you are a pain to interact with, they will prefer someone else, either directly or when hiring for the next job.

Generally, if you want something from people, it is way easier when they like you.

D.

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#42735 - 09/03/10 03:03 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Euronymous]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Euronymous
We all judge and seek approval in given circumstances, but I would like to think that the Satanist does this from a stand point of "lesser magic" for His or Her own personal gain.


And that's really the key. Humans probably use first impressions and snap judgements because evolutionarily it paid to react faster than it took to "think things through" (whatever that means for our hairy ancestors), and also because it takes less time and energy. I try to be discriminating in what I spend my time and energy thinking about, but most people don't.

For yourself, discriminate, and don't feel bad about snap judgements on things you don't care that much about.

But be mindful that others are more fickle. For instance, the best way to get promoted is to be trusted by your boss, and your boss's boss, regardless of actual job performance ... and they will probably base that trust purely on how well you help them accomplish *their* goals. Leverage for LBM, use as desired.
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#42756 - 09/04/10 04:24 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Syn_Holliday Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 25
Loc: West Covina, CA
On the flip side, I've known some who call themselves Satanists who seek to gain the disapproval of others in the belief that they will gain approval from Satanists. Others might do it with the belief that they will appear tough. Some because it gives them the sense of rebellion. Some will consciously try to gain disapproval from the religious, either for martyrdom or to prove some point.

I remember walking around Hollywood with a bunch of other Satanists, and one of them getting really excited, with a big smile say to me, "Did you see the looks on those people's faces? They totally disapprove of us!" And all I could think was, what a dork.

Seeking disapproval for the sake of gaining approval. Hmm.

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#42836 - 09/06/10 03:11 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Syn_Holliday]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
 Originally Posted By: Syn_Holliday
On the flip side, I've known some who call themselves Satanists who seek to gain the disapproval of others in the belief that they will gain approval from Satanists. Others might do it with the belief that they will appear tough. Some because it gives them the sense of rebellion. Some will consciously try to gain disapproval from the religious, either for martyrdom or to prove some point.

I remember walking around Hollywood with a bunch of other Satanists, and one of them getting really excited, with a big smile say to me, "Did you see the looks on those people's faces? They totally disapprove of us!" And all I could think was, what a dork.

Seeking disapproval for the sake of gaining approval. Hmm.


Disdainful actions are always a one edged sword. The most you go and do is make a mockery of yourself.

In response to the main part of the thread though, I must say that approval to others is an essential part of life in general. Yes, we pick and choose our battles but in life, there are just some people you HAVE to play nicely with from time to time. For example, I gain approval from my boss by my work ethic so I am able to obtain more. I gain approval from most of the parents that have children around my childrens' ages so that they might not suffer from misunderstanding at such a young age.

We seek approval, by choice, to obtain things or to avoid things. A young Satanist may deter a conversation with an adult about his involvement with Satanism as to avoid the extra hardship. Granted, the extra hardship may be something he will need to go through eventually, but why add more stress to your life?

This striving for approval becomes a problem when you pretend you are something you are not. If a person goes out of their way to avoid the topic of Satanism just simply to not have to deal with the headache that comes with discussing it with certain people, I cannot see a problem with this. If a person, in the same attempts claim to be something other than a Satanist (like a christian) this becomes a problem. (However, they wouldn't be much of a Satanist then anyhow would they? xD)

But I digress as I am heading into another subject entirely.

I restate though, that approval is nice when it comes to certain aspects of my life. I am as judgmental as the next person that comes around but I do not expect anything more from them than I would from myself.
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#42914 - 09/10/10 12:36 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: MelanosDivinity]
mountaingoat Offline
member


Registered: 05/08/10
Posts: 471
Loc: Colorado
Starting a thread about not wanting approval is a very transparent way to get approval from people who you perceive to be something superior to yourself. Responding to this probably feeds you more than you deserve. Figure it out for yourself and you don't need to ask.
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“The human race is unimportant. It is the self that must not be betrayed."

-John Fowles

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#43063 - 09/16/10 08:40 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: mountaingoat]
Sirsee Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 10
Loc: Montreal
To quote the sage words of Dave & Max Fleischer's profound character:
"I am what I am, I'm Popeye the Sailor man, toot, toot."


Edited by Sirsee (09/16/10 08:41 PM)
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Using No Way As a Way : Having No Limitation as Limitation.
------ Mad Gods ------
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#43065 - 09/16/10 08:55 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Sirsee]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Or even:


I am what I am
I am my own special creation
So come take a look
Give me the hook
Or the ovation
It's my world
That I want to have a little pride
My world
And it's not a place I have to hide in
Life's not worth a dam
Till I can say
I am what I am!

I am what I am
I don't want praise I don't want pity
I bang my own drum
Some think it's noise I think it's pretty
And so what if I love each sparkle and each bangle
Why not see things from a different angle
Your life is a sham
Till you can shout out I am what I am!


I am what I am
And what I am needs no excuses
I deal my own deck
Sometimes the aces sometimes the deuces
It's one life and there's no return and no deposit
One life so it's time to open up your closet
Life's not worth a dam till you can shout out
I am what I am!

- Gloria Gaynor.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#43079 - 09/17/10 07:29 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: felixgarnet]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
P.S. Sorry for any spelling mistakes I missed in this Cut and Paste!
Life is, of course, "Not worth a DAMN" (until you can shout, etc) and I want to have a little pride IN it. ;\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#44178 - 11/18/10 03:25 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: MelanosDivinity]
DaVayne Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Arizona, USA
You have touched upon a sensitive (and important) aspect of Satanic thought, especially as it applies to lesser magic. To consider what others think of you is a twofold concern: either you consider how others perceive you in a passive way, or you consider how others perceive you in an active way.

To alter your appearance, attitude, voice, or whatever, to simply appease others around you would be a passive form of considering how they think about you. This is a form of slavery. On the other hand, if you were to cultivate an appearance, attitude, voice, or whatever, in order to control how others perceive you -- that would be an active form of considering how others think about you. This, more active, approach gives you a self-defined and self-aware form of leverage: a tool or a weapon in any given situation.

In the world at large, we seek the approval of our fellow men so that we might walk among them undetected. We speak their words, agree with their bullshit, and become something of demagogues in order to gain leverage over them. This concept, if used in a rational and aware state of mind, becomes our tool and our weapon. It is not done to satisfy the "scared little child" in us who seeks the approval of others. Rather, it is done in an awakened state, with control in mind. But when it comes to others of our kind, a modicum of respect must be initiated. You must, indeed, know yourself -- and you needn't seek my approval (or that of anyone else in this forum). Those newbies who define themselves by "kissing ass" will be discarded as chaff, and are hardly your (or anyone else's) concern.

Now, for you to decide not to "judge others" is itself a judgement upon those who do judge others; and since you cannot stand outside yourself, you've not the objective clarity to pass judgement upon yourself. Who you are is who you define yourself to be . . . and that confers nothing upon anyone else, either here or in the outside world.
_________________________
I think not of those who think not of me . . .

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#44179 - 11/18/10 03:39 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Syn_Holliday]
DaVayne Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Arizona, USA
 Originally Posted By: Syn_Holliday
I remember walking around Hollywood with a bunch of other Satanists, and one of them getting really excited, with a big smile say to me, "Did you see the looks on those people's faces? They totally disapprove of us!" And all I could think was, what a dork.

Seeking disapproval for the sake of gaining approval. Hmm.


Well put, my friend. It's the irony factor in action!
_________________________
I think not of those who think not of me . . .

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#44626 - 12/05/10 04:11 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Diavolo]
Master Magick Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 63
Loc: New York, USA
Exactly right and this is what 'the herd' and often many Satanists never realize. There is a difference between seeking approval and gaining approval.

If you are seeking approval because you are weak and unsure of yourself or have a slave-like relationship with others, you are likely already lost to the herd.
If on the other hand, you are gaining approval of others when you need it for your own benefit (work, lust, power, etc.), there is nothing to be worried about or ashamed of. In fact, some of the most powerful people in every walk of life are the very best at doing just that, gaining your approval.

I'll quote an extremely successful approval getter here to make a point about questions like this, "If you have to ask, then you probably can’t afford it” J. P. Morgan
_________________________
Magick

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#46773 - 01/14/11 01:46 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Lucifer Rising]
mr.x Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 13
I plead to the fifth on all the comments you all posted on here.Sorry,I have to disagree with every one of your silly statements.The stupidest most unintellegent thing an individual could do is seek approval from another human being,especially if tha human being is lower than him.In my Satanic Organization,[I wish not to reveal the name here]everybody is equal and nobody thinks they are better than anybody.We beleive strongly in UNITY not the other way around.We beleive in Satan as a real DEITY.I dont know what Satanic organizations you people belong to,and I dont care to know.All Ive seen and read in these posts on here in the last 3 months is cyberbulling.Sorry to say I grew out of that stage years ago and I think some of you people need to grow up,thats if you are really true satanists as you say you are. Ave Satanas.

Edited by mr.x (01/14/11 01:54 PM)
_________________________
I will not bow down to no blond hair blue eyed jesus. Muhammad Ali

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#46774 - 01/14/11 01:49 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: mr.x]
mr.x Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 13
Another thing I may like to add to is I dont have a problem with Satanists bashing other religons or christianity.I have a problem with Satanists bashing other Satanists.I just thought I would throw that in there too.
_________________________
I will not bow down to no blond hair blue eyed jesus. Muhammad Ali

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#46777 - 01/14/11 02:22 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: mr.x]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ mr.x
Asking Satanists to get along and be nice with each other is like asking a bunch of lions to only eat vegetarian rather than meat. It is in the nature of a Satanist as one recent guy put it "you are either a predator or prey".

Big egos, predation and being adversarial is all part and parcel of being a Satanist, all qualities that will cause conflict, and it requires a tough policy like which 600Club has to keep Satanists organisations from ripping themselves to pieces in war.

600Club is mainly made up of Laveyan Satanists, nobody is equal and few of the membership worship entities. Here Satanists eat you after they have had a little play.

I agree that it gets tiresome seeing all the conflict between Satanists, all the drama, bitching and stupidity. Satanic International Network is a joke when it comes to the infighting, but 600Club has it under control.

As a Luciferian, I have seen not one fight between Luciferians, which is rather amazing. We have a different outlook to life to the Satanist.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#46782 - 01/14/11 02:46 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: mabon2010]
mr.x Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 13
I am not a Laveyan Satanist but I respect your opinion.I have read all of Anton Laveys books and if it werent for the Satanic Bible I probabaly would have never found Satanism.I am in a different organization which has been around thousands of years and we study the ancient ways.We have been criticised as I might say Dungeons and Dragon roleplayers.Lavey was not the first to discover Satanism but to expose it to the public.Many were fascinated at the time and some were just downright pissed off.Ask yourself where do you think Lavey got all his traditions,rituals etc. from.And no,Im not saying all Satanists should be nice to each other.Everybody has got thier own opinion and views. Ave Satanas
_________________________
I will not bow down to no blond hair blue eyed jesus. Muhammad Ali

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#46784 - 01/14/11 03:00 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: mabon2010]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010


600Club is mainly made up of Laveyan Satanists, nobody is equal and few of the membership worship entities. Here Satanists eat you after they have had a little play.


I've seen this said here and elsewhere, and while many here have been INFLUENCED by Anton LaVey and The Satanic Bible, it would be wrong to label the vast majority of people here as "LaVeyan" Satanists. They are simply individuals that have found they are in agreement with SOME of the ideas of Anton LaVey, and from that very tenuous standpoint, go off in wildly divergent directions.

The term itself is a misnomer, since when LaVey codified Satanism under The Church of Satan, there were no "SATANIC" groups around. There were of course those who used the name Satan, but mostly from what we would today term "theistic" angle... Father Satan, vs "Satan as one's brother... part of oneself."

Those who were in the Pre-Bartonian/Gilmorian/Nadramian Church of Satan are a whole different animal than those who have come since.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#46786 - 01/14/11 03:05 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Jake999]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Edit: This is, of course, addressed to Mr.X and not Jake.

 Quote:
In my Satanic Organization,[I wish not to reveal the name here]everybody is equal and nobody thinks they are better than anybody.We beleive strongly in UNITY not the other way around


 Quote:
I dont have a problem with Satanists bashing other religons or christianity.I have a problem with Satanists bashing other Satanists.


 Quote:
.And no,Im not saying all Satanists should be nice to each other.


Doesn't talking in circles like that make you dizzy?


Edited by 6Satan6Archist6 (01/14/11 03:06 PM)
Edit Reason: marked
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#46791 - 01/14/11 03:17 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
mr.x Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 13
What I meant was Other Satanists dont have to be nice to each other on this site.In the organization Im with everybody respects everybody elses values and opinion and we are all brothers and sisters[not on this forum].
_________________________
I will not bow down to no blond hair blue eyed jesus. Muhammad Ali

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#46792 - 01/14/11 03:24 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: mr.x]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
So your organization is made up of family members? Wow. I could probably get my sister to read TSB but I doubt she would take it any further that. My mother probably wouldn't even open the book. Certainly neither one would join a Satanic organization.

So you think that "other Satanists dont have to be nice to each other on this site" while at the same time saying "I think some of you people need to grow up..." specifically with regards to "cyberbulling"?

So which is it? Either we don't have to be nice to each other or we should "grow up" and stop "cyberbulling".

Maybe if people stop being cyberetarded they wont need their cyberhead cyberkickedin.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#47869 - 02/02/11 07:37 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: MelanosDivinity]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
It's well and good to not need the approval of others. But it's not where most humans come from, and I must insist you look again to see if your question is a legitimate query as its very posting seems to belie a care of what others think.

Humiliation would simply not be possible for the person who truly did not care what others thought, so if you believe that describes yourself I invite you to spend a day at the mall with no pants.

I personally feel I have made some progress in this. Not so much I'll dare the mall with no pants. But a circumstance that I cannot help, perhaps my only winter coat has an ugly tear making it unpresentable - I can and will understand the best I can do is blameless and therefore have no shame however other people judge me for it.

For myself, the insight is that to whatever extent I am concerned how other people judge me, they exist in the world likely more worried about how I judge them.

In the case of being a 'newbie' at any endeavor - the others with experience are not just any people, they are the people that know more than you do about the very thing you are interested in. Caring what they think may be useful and practical in allowing you to progress at that thing you are interested in.

I would counsel that any form of occult is perhaps an exception, many people have spent a great deal of time growing egos with no results to point to, such a person can only teach you to be like themselves.

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#47870 - 02/02/11 07:44 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: myk5]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
Cyberbullying is a show of weakness, it's reason-d'etre is to camouflage shame with attacks.

It's why almost all people that harass Gay people are gay themselves and far more likely to kill themselves if anyone targeted them for similar harassment.

If you need to bully me, I know I can destroy you.

The way an internet posting can endue in time, cyber bullying can destroy the bully simply by existing online as an enduring record of pettiness and intolerance. It alone can destroy the bullies entire life as prospective employers check backgrounds online and elect to hire prospects that can work well with others....


Edited by myk5 (02/02/11 07:49 AM)

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#47871 - 02/02/11 08:11 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: myk5]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
The lesser magic of manipulating other's perception with presentation - this already exists in the world as principles of fashion. The tv show "What not to wear" and various makeover shows offer basic education in social standards that otherwise may be unconscious.

The mere fact of the 'glamour' of Satanism, means that many attracted to it are already committed to counterculture and may have tattoos and a black wardrobe to match.

Tattoos can prove appealing over an entire lifetime, but generally if your look doesn't become more conservative as you age you will begin to look like a clown. The 18 year old punk rocker in a leather jacket festooned with spikes and chains may look endearing or fun, but a 45 year old man in the exact same look projects 'pathetic' and 'loser'.

I've spent most my life 'blending' while having friends that commit themselves to the counterculture with distended ear lobes and daring piercings. My blending has allowed me to hold straight jobs, be an effective salesman and so forth.

Now that I've been downsized, the jobs I have simply don't require blending and my best shot to succeed is to start my own business as an artist, web developer perhaps silkscreen printer. In that role I have more freedom and I'm considering a new look. Perhaps a business suit festooned with spikes as if it were a young punks leather jacket...? It would mess with perceptions in such a way as to give me a visual brand. I imagine being an artist gives me license to consider this and maybe get away with it.

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#48711 - 02/11/11 08:02 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: MelanosDivinity]
Dark Beauty Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 13
I agree with the OP in deeming the necessity of seeking approval useless.

From personal experiences, I've never sought the approval of my parents, which perhaps, set me at odds with them, and others, my entire life. In relationships and friendships, I was the dominant force so others sought my approval. In career matters, I worked jobs long enough until I could no longer stand slaving away without enjoyment while building someone else's empire. Now, I travel and live in the country I choose, dress as I wish, and work only if I can express myself. Those whom I would have had to gain some sort of approval in normal circumstances would still not necessarily be detrimental to my life, as there are many ways to achieve one's aims in this life.

I, too, wear makeup, but it is only because I do not approve of the condition of my skin so I refuse to go without it. It is not for bewitching men. For my vanity whispers: If I can arouse myself, I can arouse another.

Superficially, we seek approval to obtain jobs or for some sort of power, but this can be seen as more of a flaw of character when shown in other aspects of life.


I have considered myself an outcast my entire life, the black sheep in every way. I never expect to gain someone's approval, and if so, I know it is only temporary and for some selfish or exploitative reason. You must approve of yourself before others will approve of you. To seek approval is to give away power and self-confidence. Humans smell fear and weakness like animals in the wild smell the blood of their wounded prey. But if you choose not to, be wise enough to use this to your advantage instead of for the mere sake of ego greasing, blind conformity, or a stupid desire to belong. For all sheep are eventually led to the slaughter.
_________________________
"I'm not who you think I am, nor what you think I should be."

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#51920 - 03/29/11 11:32 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I only get on with other males in a gym atmosphere. This is because aggression is high and competitiveness is bolstered by encouragement on all sides to better ourselves, for others to better themselves and genuinely make progression all around.

When aggression is repressed such as in nightclubs this is when anxiety and paranoia atmospheres catalyse violence as there is no way to prove to females that you are a suitable mate.

In a gym atmosphere, every male can display and assert his strength, his humour and in a relaxed non exaggerated way, in the presence of equally healthy females, this does not need to come to sexual gratification but actually vents those feelings and creates a relaxed atmosphere of naturalness free from tension. In my experience anyway, there are no negative vibes in gyms, there is healthy aggression and humour between competitive males. Many many females to avoid any kind of petty squabbles over female attention with professionalism all around instead.

Christian people, Muslim people, and even me, all set those things aside when in a positive atmosphere with positive people.
_________________________


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#51921 - 03/29/11 11:51 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Lucifer I Am Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/10
Posts: 9
Loc: Texas
I've come to find through research and my own experiences that as a Luciferian and an ex-Christian, I no longer have this guilt hanging over me when I do something that would be considered wrong by mainstream religions. I hold myself accountable now and I do what I want without fear of some religious scorn. That is the beauty of the LHP, accountability to oneself, self-discipline.
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#51965 - 03/31/11 08:21 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Lucifer I Am]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Lucifer I Am. The two defining definitions of LHP:
1. to be your own god.
2. to rebel against the flow of conformity to become your own god.

Part of the process is to undo the brainwashing of RHP dogma, a sometimes painful unlearning process, and many backward steps before the empowering journey begins in Luciferianism to becoming your own god in your own life by expressing your potentiality in all its forms.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#51969 - 03/31/11 02:08 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: mabon2010]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
What is Apotheosis if it is not turning man's primitive aggression in on himself — sublimated into self-control?

Is there self worship here? Are joy and happiness the fruits of amassed power? And what is power if it is not the actualisation of what has been overcome?

What is taking place is destruction! A total devaluation! Break down all concepts and qualities by which man takes pleasure to reveal principles in which no one takes pleasure. In this we see in the latter the origin of the former.

I am a God? Surely not. I would think me not an idol of worship but always a lower form of being to perpetually overcome. And in every living creature — Will to Power.
_________________________


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#51973 - 03/31/11 03:19 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Hegesias]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Hegesias
I am a God? Surely not. I would think me not an idol of worship but always a lower form of being to perpetually overcome. And in every living creature — Will to Power.


It is indeed all about to overcome; transcending. Being our own god sounds nice and dandy and it is surely reactionary against religion but in the end, it simply means the Self is the center.

It is not as much about removing the RHP dogma, which is quite easy, but about removing all chains and defining one's own values in life. While growing up, we are trained as a Hive-Mind; all about us is them, and when awakening, one can start liberating oneself, carefully analyzing our previous training program and add, delete and rewrite what is needed. We slowly move from a Hive-Mind into a Self-Mind, constantly improving our current state; becoming what we are.

Calling ourselves gods might be good for the ego but it hardly matches reality.

D.

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#51979 - 03/31/11 04:03 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo
But that is what Satanism is partly about, expressing ego, being the beast. You refer to yourself as a Satanist, you are Satan. In effect Satan is God and the God is You, and you are the greatest thing in your life, the sun to which the whole world revolves around.

@ Hegesias
Why do you need to turn anything against yourself? Those that turn against themselves do so because of a conflict between their own internal potentiality and an external enslaving element (example a religion).

Nor do you become less, but greater in the Left Hand Path through the empowerment of self, the breaking of chains on your way to become god in your own life.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#51983 - 03/31/11 04:12 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It is expressing Will to Power above all. Of course I'm satan and of course I'm god and except strawberry ice-cream, I am indeed the greatest thing in my life but these are all words which sound quite cool and might indeed feed the ego.

In the end, I'm nothing but a work in progress and inevitably my body or brain will fail at one point, turning this all into yet another unfinished work. The only difference between us and them is that, at least, we are painting ourselves.

D.

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#51988 - 03/31/11 05:13 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
There are so many people who just don't understand the concept of "being one's own god" that I wish that Dr. LaVey had just kept it to himself sometimes... of course, even when it's spelled out, the inherent egomania of some make it a futile effort.

Yes. You ARE in charge of your own life. Yes, you DO take responsibility for your own actions. In accordance with the 11 Rules, you do not complain about those things to which you need not subject yourself. You do, at your own hand, control whether you live or die.

But in a world of gods, interactions do take place and Satanic gods, being creatures of flesh, blood and need, rather than the sterile gossamer of spirit, must at times compromise and must at times consider the flesh, blood and need of other gods as well. You may be an island unto yourself, but unless you're growing your own crops, milling your own clothes and in a love affair with your own hand, others will come into the picture, and like it or not, they too need you to a point and will also be on the path of compromise to fulfill their needs as well.

So, in a world of gods, one remains circumspect. You interact when you can or must, and you make those compromises that you can without losing your sense of self. Will to Power... yeah... sounds good, doesn't it? But WILL negates WILL without common sense and stalemate occurs, in which nothing gets done, and the "gods" become reduced to arguments on trivialities; how many angels can fit on the head of a pin? Who's a Satanist? Does this construct make my ass look fat?

Being one's own god means controlling oneself. Being one's own god means that you place yourself above the trivialities of the trolling, arguing masses, sure of what one believes to be right for his own life, and joyous in that knowledge. If others can see and enjoy it with him, so much the better, but if not, a GOD is just as happy to go it alone. Being one's own god means being in the world, but not OF it. Being one's own god means being that island unto itself, a sovereign country of one, beholden to none, but interacting with others when need or circumstance arises, yet always looking inward to one's own intuition for personal truths, rather than outward to some spiritual pipe dream or some ancient wisdom applicable to ancient times.

Being one's own god is truly entering one's own house justified.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#51990 - 03/31/11 05:21 PM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
But of course Jake, in life, there are others and if you act as a "god" and expect them all to conform according your needs, you either end up with a paper hat or very, very needy.

There is that what is applied to transcending personally and that what is done, out there, because it needs to be done, and when needed, gods have to swallow their godly pride and adapt because that serves their goals better than trying to shoot thunderbolts from their arse at everything not going as planned.

D.

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#52011 - 04/01/11 12:22 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: mabon2010]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
@ Diavolo
But that is what Satanism is partly about, expressing ego, being the beast. You refer to yourself as a Satanist, you are Satan. In effect Satan is God and the God is You, and you are the greatest thing in your life, the sun to which the whole world revolves around.

@ Hegesias
Why do you need to turn anything against yourself? Those that turn against themselves do so because of a conflict between their own internal potentiality and an external enslaving element (example a religion).

Nor do you become less, but greater in the Left Hand Path through the empowerment of self, the breaking of chains on your way to become god in your own life.


Turn on myself Mabon? Ask: how can I think if I am obsessed with an idea?

Intellectual crisis is about this place of mind. As the sovereign individual, I have want to experience problems. I present both a warm conclusion and perhaps the coldest conclusion from the same premises. You will hear two voices speaking; one asserts the other objects. This is the ugliest self-sufficiency of man in the immoralist shadow — the free-thinker overcoming inexorable nihilism. The controlling tendencies of my thoughts are nihilist and contrive contrasting emotions, I will come as commentator and critic of my own ideas because these are all I have from my experience and experience of nothing else.
_________________________


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#52012 - 04/01/11 06:56 AM Re: Seeking Approval Of Fellow Men [Re: mabon2010]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
The expression "being ones own god" is slightly, not to say very much, overrated. It simply means of having your act together, to know what you are doing why you are doing it (or why it is being done) and the possible knowledge/fruits you will gain from it. And even the last part isn't really a must.

There is a sentence I read on facebook from a good friend of mine. I don't know if it is from a famous author, philosopher or even a lyric from a certain artist.
"When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained."
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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