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#3539 - 01/17/08 02:21 AM The Ethics of Living in the Modern World
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Over the last few years I have been delving more and more into the ethics of our lifestyle in the modern westernized world and I am starting to question whether there even is such thing as an ethical life at all anymore.

Sure you don't steal, lie, cheat or murder, but how about all the other unethical choices you make in your day to day lives without even giving it a second thought.

And even if you do give it a second thought, how much of a compromise is made when time, cost and convenience are put into play?

Is it possible to live an ethical prosperous life? Or does every choice we are opted hurt someone, something or the environment?

Does a satanist even care? Does the satanist feel any ethical responsibility to the world they live in? Does being our own Satan releive us of a duty of care when it comes to our world? When does indulgence become over indulgence? Is there such a thing, or more importantly should there be such a thing in Satanism?

Are the only people living truly ethical lives in society the homeless bums that eat out of garbage and give no money to maintaining the selfish wasteful and unsustainable society we live in?

I'd love to hear what others think.

SA_TAN aka Zeph
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#3550 - 01/17/08 10:06 AM Re: The Ethics of Living in the Modern World [Re: ZephyrGirl]
TornadoCreator Offline
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I personally consider standard morallity to be flawed. I live by a set of morals that I have arrived at independantly, believe it or not these are morals that actully closely mirror most of the well know 10 commandments however I don't worry if I'm hurting someone, what I worry is if I'm doing the least hurt overall possible, and normally I am.
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#3553 - 01/17/08 11:35 AM Re: The Ethics of Living in the Modern World [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Octavius Offline
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I've been asked, as a Satanist, what principals or standards should do you live your life by – and does Satanic philosophy give any inspiration or guidance in this respect? Furthermore, how does the (un)common Satanist who is primarily bound by self-centric forces approach the ideas of Social Justice, Morality, Cultural Differences, ecological stewardship, etc?

I think it best to approach this initially from a generalized point of view focused on ethics, which in itself can incorporate the sub-contexts of morality, social justice, racism, etc. In doing so, I ask, “Is there a ‘Satanic Primer’ to begin the discussion?” I could draw from any number of texts. However I think the topic might be better served without using any of these lest this topic disintegrate into interpretations of rehashed philosophical ideas. Rather, I invite the individual contributions of personal thought and current practice. Let’s not begin this by comparing the pre-existing ethics of religion or philosophy. Instead, let’s look at the concept in and of itself and attempt to define it via collective self-centric means as it applies generally to Satanism.

Trying to define external or collective self-centricity and its ensuing paradoxes is quite a challenge…how do we as Satanists collectively practice Satanic ethics while protecting our individual freedom? If we share ethical ideals, are we one step closer to becoming another "herd?" Does it matter? How does one balance a self-centric philosophy when faced with ethical questions that demand an external viewpoint or action? Can one truly live in a state of moral or ethical ambiguity?

Indeed, many of us could cling tightly to the literal pre-conceptions and "sacred" statements of satanic thought in order to dodge this entire issue. Only recently have I come to understand the cowardice in this stance. Within the mind of a Satanist, bearing in mind that he holds himself or his control over his life above almost everything else, how does he reconcile external issues like war, racism, political affiliation, sexuality, environmental issues, etc? In doing so, are there guidelines that follow a specific satanic line of thought or are we all free to act within our own definitions of morality? Does this qualify or discount the concept of Satanism in itself?
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#3561 - 01/17/08 05:57 PM Re: The Ethics of Living in the Modern World [Re: Octavius]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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 Originally Posted By: octavious
Indeed, many of us could cling tightly to the literal pre-conceptions and "sacred" statements of satanic thought in order to dodge this entire issue. Only recently have I come to understand the cowardice in this stance.


Bingo! You've summed up what I was thinking perfectly.

The problem as I see it with dodging the issue by using the literal pre-conceptions and "sacred" statemnts of satanic thought is that they were all written in a time very very different to the present. Is clinging to that past point of view a big ingnorance blunder in and of itself?

What may have been the bigger issues then are certainly not the same ones now. In a world of ever increasing cruelty to farm animals, over population, division of wealth and unsustainable environtment issues, can we actually afford to IGNORE them?

May I ask you Octavious, have you made up your mind yet as to whether it qualifies or discount the concept of Satanism?
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#3586 - 01/18/08 08:02 PM Re: The Ethics of Living in the Modern World [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
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Personally, it has discounted previous Satanic thought for me. LaVey's bible, while a worthwhile read and addition to any library, is stagnant. For the time it was written, it was a sub-cultural revelation. However, as times progress, change is necessary. Books are static and need revision and addition. The CoS has failed to do so. I have found other means to continue the path set forth by the Satanic Bible and its predecessors...
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#3594 - 01/19/08 10:33 PM Re: The Ethics of Living in the Modern World [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Sven Offline
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Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
To be a Satanist means to most as living without having to depreve yourself of the various indulgent acts that most societies believe one should. Yet even for most Satanist there is some sort of moral way of conducting yourself. For example give into your basic animal desires, but you conduct yourself in a way lacking commonsense and intellagence then your usually scorned upon in a Satanic community. So you could say that even Satanist have morals, its just those morals may or maynot counter what society or other various groups deem as moral.

As for morals in our "modern society" what morals become is either a handy why for playing off one mistakes or a way to mentally allow people to commit acts as they see fit. Which is the same way, and at most reasons, morals were used 500 years ago.


Edited by Sven (01/19/08 10:36 PM)
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#7414 - 04/08/08 03:02 AM Re: The Ethics of Living in the Modern World [Re: Sven]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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This has been bugging me for a little while now and I'm not sure exactly why.

One thing I think is because I wanted to start a conversation about ethics, but it was immediately taken as morals.

 Quote:
To be a Satanist means to most as living without having to depreve yourself of the various indulgent acts that most societies believe one should.


Yes, but now with the world becoming as it is, is it ok if that indulgent act impacts on the greater good of the planet, rather than just stepping on a few peoples toes.

I mean, fucking, drinking, swearing and eating too much are all indulgences that don't effect the planet as such (although fucking does have the risk of pregnancy but I'm not going to debate that here), but throwing ciggerette butts out the car window, eating factory farmed food, having 50 different electronic gizmos on hand 24/7 has a wider impact on the whole planet.

So whilst we as Satanists have the right to say, it's all about me, I want to throw that ciggy butt out the window, it becomes a bit of the old cutting of the nose to spite the face.

I also, wasn't really talking about what the rest of society thought about Satanists ethics, or even what we thought of theirs as much as I was wanting to start a conversation about Satanic ethics and whether we could even have them? Octavious understood and vocalized much better than I where I was going I think.
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#7423 - 04/08/08 12:58 PM Re: The Ethics of Living in the Modern World [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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I do at times throw cigarette butts out of the car window, but that’s because it’s only paper and cotton, so it will dissolve in time. Another reason is because I know that it pisses off the anti-smoking people, and they really annoy me, with their preaching.

On the other hand, I am a big believer in “ethics.” Since I believe that “belonging” is a natural human need, and I do not find it beneficial to go against the grain, merely for the sake of showing off my independence. I do care what people think about me, in general, therefore I chose to present myself in a positive light, as long as it is sincere.

To me, being a “Satanist,” not only involves having the will to go against certain beliefs, but just as importantly, allowing myself to embrace common beliefs and practices that I find to be reasonable. For example, although etiquette might appear to many Satanists as sheepish, because it involves being polite, courteous, and diplomatic, I find it to be charming, enjoyable, and beneficial to me.

I do my very best to speak well, using proper grammar, but without sounding as if I was trying “too hard.”

There is nothing “elite” about a person who dresses and speaks like a bum, merely for the affect of trying to be different. Ironically, these days, it seems that in the States, a person who cares about their appearance, and the way that they express themselves are viewed as different, because so many of the “black sheep” feel that being “elite” means simply shoving their presence in the face of the “white sheep.” All they end up doing is making clowns of themselves, and the only people that can take them seriously, are other “black sheep.”

If my beliefs and appearance happen to please the general populace, and I am viewed by them as a conformist, then so be it. I will not become a clown, a “rebel without a cause,” for the mere shock value of it, except occasionally, for the sake of pure self entertainment, when it pleases me.

I find that many people consider ethics to be important, but in reality, very few people truly believe in adhering to any, if it causes them any discomfort. Many will turn on their friends if it makes their life easier.
Furthermore, “ethics” in society change like the wind. If the “powers that be” feed a certain way of thinking to the general populace long enough, anyone who goes against that line of thinking will be viewed as lacking “ethics,” or “immoral.”

As some have stated earlier, I have my own standard when it comes to “ethics.” These standards do not change at the whim of general beliefs, but are my own, and will not change them just because it might go against the fashion of the day. On the other hand, if I find that it is beneficial to me to change, then I will do so, even at the risk of appearing “sheepish.”

I do as I please, even if it just so happens to please everyone else, but NOT for the only reason to please everyone.
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#7429 - 04/08/08 06:12 PM Re: The Ethics of Living in the Modern World [Re: Asmedious]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
I do at times throw cigarette butts out of the car window, but that’s because it’s only paper and cotton, so it will dissolve in time. Another reason is because I know that it pisses off the anti-smoking people, and they really annoy me, with their preaching.


Yeah, anti smoking people are pretty annoying. Having been a smoker myself at times, I can totally relate. However, how do you feel about your part in looking after the state of the planet, even if it means some discomfort for you? Or do you beleive that you as part of the 'elite' should be able to do whatever makes you happy, even if it means that other people will have to 'pick up your slack' so to speak? To clarify, I'm not saying you do this. This is a hypothetical question.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#7430 - 04/08/08 06:42 PM Re: The Ethics of Living in the Modern World [Re: ZephyrGirl]
rob_church Offline
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Registered: 11/02/07
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Loc: alberta , canada
Or do you believe that you as part of the 'elite' should be able to do whatever makes you happy, even if it means that other people will have to 'pick up your slack' so to speak?

i am of that opinion zeph i do what i please,fuck the rest.i have always been about living for me.not the collective.

as for the planet i do not care myself, this world will still be here when i die.and after that who cares.but im a very selfish person.i realize this day in age people like me are a dying breed.the militant non smokers/earth first people are the new breed.
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#7432 - 04/08/08 08:12 PM Re: The Ethics of Living in the Modern World [Re: rob_church]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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 Quote:
Or do you believe that you as part of the 'elite' should be able to do whatever makes you happy, even if it means that other people will have to 'pick up your slack' so to speak?

i am of that opinion zeph i do what i please,fuck the rest.i have always been about living for me.not the collective.

as for the planet i do not care myself, this world will still be here when i die.and after that who cares.but im a very selfish person.i realize this day in age people like me are a dying breed.the militant non smokers/earth first people are the new breed.


I totally agree.
I feel that the "green" people are a bunch of over reacting fanatics. Fuck them.
Oh, and fuck global warming too. I don't beleive in it, and even if I did, I would continue to use spray deoderant \:\)
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#7565 - 04/12/08 06:02 PM Re: The Ethics of Living in the Modern World [Re: ZephyrGirl]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
Qui Bono Zeph. Qui Bono?

To me, ethics, morals, and social codes of behavior are only needed and should be used as tools by the Satanist if it benefits him/her in some way and takes him further in life. There is a time and place for ethics. For example, if i'm poor and i'm hungry - I'm gunna rob your ass for a sandwich. If some girl is ugly and married to a rich guy - I'm gunna screw her husband for his money. But if I'm doing business with this businesswoman, and the deal is a big - I'd respect her and her husband and stuff.

We can't toss out ethics and morals just because every one else is, or just because we're satanists. These are valuable tools.

Kayla
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Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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