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#35674 - 02/15/10 06:26 PM A Quote from a LaVey Interview
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Here is a quote from Dr. LaVey. It is from an interview between LaVey and Leo Martello and comes from a book called Black Magic, Satanism and Voodoo by Martello, which was published in 1972.

I have swiped this from Dr. Aquino's ebook on The Church. It is a part of Appendix 53 (Page 639).

Martello: Since in the popular mind Satanism is usually used as a synonym for evil, do you consider yourself such? If not, why not?

LaVey: The popular mind has never displayed an overabundance of objectivity. The popular mind accepts most data with little or no question, unless it happens to hurt. Then it is rejected. By blaming everything “bad” on the Christian concept of the Devil, theologians had a ready scapegoat for whatever went against their best interests. I don’t blame them; they needed a Devil in order to operate. I’m afraid we’re not that kind of Devil, though. The word “Satan,” which is Hebrew in origin, means the accuser, the adversary, the prosecutor. We question all things that defy logic, although we recognise the importance of subjectivity when the security of the “popular mind” is at stake.
Insofar as my “evil” propensities are concerned, I find the companionship of little children or animals far more inspirational and rejuvenating than the most esoteric magical ceremony and hold them in great reverence. I love good food, hearty drink, music that can bring shivers to my spine or tears to my eyes, works of art that are finely wrought and interesting to gaze upon, sexual fulfilment in accord with the imagery and sensations I find stimulating, a comfortable bed in which to sleep, whatever material possessions I can find the time to enjoy, a body free of pain, and others with whom to share these things who love and respect me as I do them.
I feel that those who thrive on misery should be presented with copious amounts of woe. Those who need doomsdays should be given dire prophecies. Those who would like to see you as miserable as themselves should be exiled with their own kind. I believe that water should be allowed to seek its own level, without interference, insofar as human beings are concerned. I believe in the glorification of the ego. That is a good separation process. A pumped-up, overinflated ego will display a fool’s flaws quickly and put him out of the running, while the worthy will rise to meet the added responsibilities that will accompany their exaltation.
I believe that man is not created equal, and that there are 25-watt people as well as 250-watt people, regardless of ethnic, economic, or religious backgrounds. If these things make me “evil,” then I must plead guilty.

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#35675 - 02/15/10 07:15 PM Re: A Quote from a LaVey Interview [Re: ]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2576
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
This was an interview by correspondence: Leo sent Anton a list of questions, and Anton sent him answers back. As I recall, the paperback, when it finally appeared, had some of Anton's responses scrambled & misprinted, which annoyed him. But he didn't expect that high a standard from Martello, who was basically a Wiccan flake of the sort prolific in the '60s.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#35676 - 02/15/10 07:31 PM Re: A Quote from a LaVey Interview [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



That interview is one of the most sensible and concise explanations of Satanism I have seen, and it also gives me a sense of who LaVey was. I don't know if others would agree with this.

I was actually also reading a piece of writing by John Ferro from your ebook as well Dr. Aquino. What happened to John Ferro? Is he still alive? Is he still involved with Satanism in some way?

He seems to me to be a highly intelligent and articulate person.

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#35677 - 02/15/10 07:32 PM Re: A Quote from a LaVey Interview [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Castle Books put the LaVey interview in a cheap hardback entitled BLACK MAGIC * Satanism * VOODOO by Marrello in 1973. The interview in its entirety is found on pages 120-128.

Like Dr. Aquino said, Martello was pretty much a "Wiccan Flake," and died in 2000. You can read about him at http://www.controverscial.com/Dr.%20Leo%20Louis%20Martello.htm and
http://www.loribrunopsychic.com/DrLeoLouisMartello.html
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#35678 - 02/15/10 08:39 PM Magister Caverni John Ferro [Re: ]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2576
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: MatthewJ1
That interview is one of the most sensible and concise explanations of Satanism I have seen, and it also gives me a sense of who LaVey was. I don't know if others would agree with this.

Well, I assume you can see what I thought of him from COS as a whole. He was a very pleasant, gracious, and considerate gentleman. He enjoyed being himself, but he was never pretentious or self-advertising about it. You could call him a natural, rather than an affected extrovert. Almost everyone who met him expected the sort of bragging, narcissism, and bluster that were so common in the '60s "occult subculture", and they all came away saying, "Gosh, what a nice man!"

 Quote:
I was actually also reading a piece of writing by John Ferro from your ebook as well Dr. Aquino. What happened to John Ferro? Is he still alive? Is he still involved with Satanism in some way? He seems to me to be a highly intelligent and articulate person.

John was a Professor of History at the [Jesuit] University of San Francisco. He was handsome as hell, which drove the ladies nuts because he was also gay. An impeccable gentleman, and the senior Master at the Central Grotto at the time I joined (1969). A short time later he and Anton had a disagreement about something which resulted in John's departure for awhile. When I learned of this, I gave both of them no peace until they reconciled, which they eventually did probably just to shut me up.

John stayed with Anton in 1975, and I privately thought this was a good thing, because if anyone could have restored the Church, within its original authenticity and scope, John was he. If he had devoted the same energy and dedication to it that he had in 1969, it would have done fine; and if John had taken over as High Priest when Anton croaked, it would today be something everyone could be proud of.

Unfortunately, for reasons never communicated to me, John again fell away from the Church post-1975, and I was told later died of AIDS. Damn it.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#35679 - 02/15/10 09:01 PM Re: Magister Caverni John Ferro [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



So many of the people who were and are involved in The Church have been remarkable individualists.

Magister Ferro seems to have been of this type. He comes across a great eccentric with a love of the 18th century.

His writing was quite flawless and seamless.

I believe he was the first to have been awarded the fourth degree in The Church.

I am interested in the fourth degree - the sort of quality and knowledge required to earn that degree must be indeed great.

To hold the fifth degree - well that is indeed special!

Man, I do love this philosophy and the sort of depth and the questions which can be asked and explored.

Dr. A and Jake you are legends!

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#35680 - 02/15/10 09:11 PM Re: Magister Caverni John Ferro [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino


Unfortunately, for reasons never communicated to me, John again fell away from the Church post-1975, and I was told later died of AIDS. Damn it.


I never heard why Magister Ferro wasn't around during my period of time at the Black House, but I don't think that there was any animosity between him and Dr. LaVey. Dr. LaVey commented that they had spoken, and Dr. LaVey always spoke of him in very complimentary tones, as he did with many of the early members of The Church. I too had heard that he died of AIDS, although I couldn't say exactly when that was.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#35681 - 02/15/10 09:40 PM Re: Magister Caverni John Ferro [Re: Jake999]
Mr Chips Offline
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Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 14
A quick question: was John the fellow with the sharp mustache shown in the opening ritual of Satanis? If not, who was that?
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#35682 - 02/15/10 10:23 PM Re: Magister Caverni John Ferro [Re: Mr Chips]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Mr. Chips:

Satanis was done before my time at the Black House, so I'm not really sure who the person was, and I've seen no pictures of people from that period that I could have compared with those I would have seen in the 80's. Dr. Aquino was much closer in at that time and he may know for sure.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#35685 - 02/16/10 12:41 AM Satanis Personalities [Re: Mr Chips]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2576
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Mr Chips
A quick question: was John the fellow with the sharp mustache shown in the opening ritual of Satanis? If not, who was that?

No, that wasn't John. John looked like a young James Mason and had a velvet voice to match. [I told you the girls all swooned.] He wasn't in Satanis probably because at that time it would have jeopardized his faculty position over at the [Catholic] USF.

I don't know who that opening-invoker on Satanis is, though he was sure doing his utmost to sound sonorous. See, that's what I mean. When you look at most of the others in the various Satanis ritual shots, they're self-conscious and rote. Look at Anton and he was always relaxed, serious, and clearly sincere. Well, maybe not when he was blessing Isaac Bonewits' dick, although it is undeniable that IB went on to become an Upstanding Member of the neopagan subculture.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#35687 - 02/16/10 01:46 AM The IV° & V° [Re: ]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2576
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: MatthewJ1
Magister Ferro seems to have been of this type. He comes across a great eccentric with a love of the 18th century. His writing was quite flawless and seamless.

Yes. He refused to have anything to do with modern machinery like automobiles or typewriters. Letters from him were always meticulously calligraphed on laid stationery. Never anything as vulgar as a strikeover. I think he really would have preferred to live in Collinsport, Maine in the Old House, with its candles and no phone/electricity. He made do with occasional evenings at 6114.

 Quote:
I believe he was the first to have been awarded the fourth degree in The Church.

Correct.

 Quote:
I am interested in the fourth degree - the sort of quality and knowledge required to earn that degree must be indeed great.

It developed gradually in the Church of Satan and has continued to be refined in the Temple of Set. It had both administrative [as previously discussed here, similar to bishop/archbishop/cardinal] and personal/initiatory aspects. Anton modeled much of its Recognition ceremony after, and quoted therein from, the 13th Æthyr of Liber 418, as have we ever since. This is the principle, for instance, by which Masters are expected to inspire, but not restrict specialized magical Orders.

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To hold the fifth degree - well that is indeed special!

It is the Church's/Temple's identification of a Magus, evolved from the (9)=[2] of the Golden Dawn & A.'.A.'., but in a much more open context that that of the Cabalistic "Tree of Life": that is, the identification, definition, and explanation of a new principle of magical philosophy of great consequence [or in initiatory expression, "Utterance of a Word"]. Only Anton held this degree in the Church because only he had done just that. [Gilmore's current self-styling as a "Magus" is accordingly as nonsensical as his and his confederates' equally-clueless pretensions to the Magistry previously.]

 Quote:
Man, I do love this philosophy and the sort of depth and the questions which can be asked and explored.

It gets weirder all the time.

 Quote:
Dr. A and Jake you are legends!

or at least extras in The Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers ...
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#35688 - 02/16/10 03:00 AM Re: The IV° & V° [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Space Monkey Offline
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Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Oregon, usa
Since degrees got brought up I have been wondering something. Before I became a satanist I was involved in witchcraft. The coven I was a member of had a really strike regime as far as training went and handing out degrees. I only got to the second degree before I left, but I really had to work for that.

I was over on the Letters to the devil forum and everyone seems to be either a priest or magistrate. So in CoS today how do you earn degrees? is it a time base thing, a money thing. A political scratch my back and poof your a priest? I just don't think there should be that many people with third or fourth degrees in a group.

Also how could Gilmore call him self a magus? do there degrees just don't matter anymore?


Edited by Space Monkey (02/16/10 03:02 AM)

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#35689 - 02/16/10 03:26 AM Re: The IV° & V° [Re: Space Monkey]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
You would really have to ask someone in the current Church of Satan how the hell they decide who is what and how they get there. But you're right. It seems that everyone is someone and when everyone is someone, it pretty much cheapens any real meaning in the terms one uses to express a position or a quality.

One way of looking at it is the current trend of female singers being called "diva." If Whitney Houston, Celine Dion and Mariah Carey can claim the title, then what does that say for the talents of Mahalia Jackson, Aretha Franklin, or Ella Fitzgerald? And we won't even cheapen the names of Maria Callas, Leontine Price or Beverly Sills.

And it's not like the trend has only been in Satanism. During the 70's and 80's and up until now, the trend in "wicca" has been to elevate one's name using traditional titles. I can't tell you the number of 16 year olds claiming the title "Lady" or "High Priestess" of this or that... or High Priests or "Blue Mages," or some other cockamamie title.

Most of it was (and still is, I think) a function of the "me generation" thinking that it all has to center around ME... who ever ME is at any given time. There's no need to train to know one's skill, because one deserves to be whatever they declare themselves to be simply by virtue of being able to declare it. In circles such as "ours," (meaning various realms of what the world might call the occult,) it petty much is defined by the leader's inability to model it or at least define a title as relates to a set position as an attractive and meaningful goal to be achieved.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#35691 - 02/16/10 04:19 AM Re: The IV° & V° [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Space Monkey Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/07/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Oregon, usa
After reading these two posts. I have come under the influence of the lord of darkness, that I am to be refereed to as Lord Magus all around great guy space monkey.

Part of me would love to be in a group that made you earn degrees. Cause it is kind of nice to work towards something. Why bother thou. I earn a second degree after years of hard work, or just make up a title cause does anyone really care anymore. So much of the occult is an inner journey. We all know I hope were we truly are in our road.

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#35693 - 02/16/10 05:09 AM Re: The IV° & V° [Re: Space Monkey]
Hawkeye Offline
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Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 21
Personally I think initiation, or degrees of achievement, can be a double edged sword. They build ego, which can be dangerous. Handing out certificates and titles to people who haven't earned them is folly.

However, if you recieve a certificate, or a title, or a belt or rank, and have really worked for it, you really reap rewards, both mentally and spiritually. For example, I'm very into the martial arts, and my belts and sashes (sashes are used in place of belts in most traditiomal styles of kung fu) are a point of great pride to me, because I worked hard for them, and it is this pride in my former achievements that drive me on to greater and greater ones.

Then again, I cannot speak for anyone else, so that's just my own opinion and experience on the subject.


Edited by Hawkeye (02/16/10 05:10 AM)

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