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#35912 - 02/23/10 04:47 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Dan_Dread]
Noctuary Offline
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Registered: 02/01/10
Posts: 92
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
 Quote:

So...of course I don't really think that's accurate. The same way I don't think you are born a Satanist. Because then...well the two start to sound similar.

What's so wrong with similarities? You and Hitler both have(had) two arms and two legs, but that doesn't make you the same person. It's always best to check the bathwater for babies before pulling the plug.

I don't really disagree that muslims are muslims from birth. Or at least, born with the correct disposition to be one. However, the idea that EVERYONE has the same disposition is downright silly.

The main difference as I see it is Islam is an outward seeking faith based belief system for those attuned to the 'light' side, whereas Satanism is an inward seeking logic based belief system for those more in league with the dark.



That the prior is faith based leaves a lot of flexibilty as to what the adherent might believe, though. Faith works for anything, so it's pretty much a matter of who fills your head full of crap first that defines what religion you are. These faith based types sometimes end up at Satanism as well, but these pretenders are always easy to spot.

With Satanism however,being logic based rather than faith based, there is really not so much wiggle room for creativity. Reality is as it is, and that's how it is. It becomes a matter of exploring that to it's fullest rather than filling the gaps with cotton candy. When the Satanist comes to Satanism it is because there is no other option.

It's a matter of self honesty.


 Quote:
When the Satanist comes to Satanism it is because there is no other option.


Very well said. I tend to believe the same way.

I guess the problem I have is this:
If Satanists are born Satanists..then when another religion (say Islam) says you are born Muslim....There is a very big problem. Which is it I am born? Satanist? Muslim? I can't be both. Logically I tend to go with I wasn't born either. Two teams can't have me! \:D

And though I don't want to go in depth here about Islam..I will say islam is very much in inward seeking faith. The Qur'an tells you to question everything..including the Qur'an itself. It works outwardly as a very logical religion. Which is what attracted it to me. But I'll leave it at that. I don't want to bash or defend a faith I am no longer a member of...just explain it a bit from an actual hands on point of view.
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#35917 - 02/23/10 05:05 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Noctuary]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
ARGGGGG, Satanism is not a religion.

It is a system of philosophy. An internal compass that some people are born understanding, while others keep trying to justify it to themselves.

You can be born into a muslim, Xitian, jewish, or mormon religious faith, but if inside you know it's a lie, then it's a lie.

Satanist don't care if you are "on the team". I think more of us would be happier if less people wanted to join the team before they read they the rule book.

Morgan
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#35919 - 02/23/10 06:50 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Morgan]
Noctuary Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/01/10
Posts: 92
 Originally Posted By: Morgan

You can be born into a muslim, Xitian, jewish, or mormon religious faith, but if inside you know it's a lie, then it's a lie.


I am not sure if this was in response to my post..but eh..I'll go with yeah just to be on the safe side.

Yes, you can indeed be born into religion. But it's not what I meant. Islam believes you are Muslim (which to them is not a religion but a 'being of'. It get's hard to explain that if you aren't familiar with Muslims. It doesn't matter what religion you were born into..Islam believes you are all Msulims. It has to do with what it means. Islam means: Submission to God. Muslim means One who submits to God. So to them it's the definition of everything created. Rocks are Muslim. Stars are Muslims. Birds and bees and pandas too.

Anyways..so there you go.


Everything else you said I agree with. Especially about it being a philosophy
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#35929 - 02/23/10 02:32 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Noctuary]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3110
 Quote:
Yes, you can indeed be born into religion. But it's not what I meant. Islam believes you are Muslim (which to them is not a religion but a 'being of'. It get's hard to explain that if you aren't familiar with Muslims.

The "being born a Satanist" implies that a person is being born with the mindset to become a Satanist, but it also means that not everyone is being gifted with that specific mindset from birth.
Contrary to Islam where the more egalitarian idea of "everyone is Muslim", "being born a Satanist" can only be said from specific individuals.

A religion can claim that everyone belongs to them from birth, but time can only (and has) show(n) otherwise.


Edited by Dimitri (02/23/10 02:43 PM)
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#35932 - 02/23/10 04:49 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Noctuary]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

I guess the problem I have is this:
If Satanists are born Satanists..then when another religion (say Islam) says you are born Muslim....There is a very big problem. Which is it I am born? Satanist? Muslim? I can't be both.

Only you can answer that. Different people are wired..well..differently.
 Quote:

I will say islam is very much in inward seeking faith. The Qur'an tells you to question everything..including the Qur'an itself. It works outwardly as a very logical religion.

Inward seeking is seeking divinity and ultimate authority from within. Outward seeking is projecting these things outwardly. I'm pretty sure allah is thought to actually exist, somewhere out there, by every single muslim in the world.
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#35935 - 02/23/10 06:51 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Noctuary]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



I thought I might add some comments here.

Hopefully this will make some sense and add something to the discussion.

The question seems to me to be: does the individual have some sort of innate quality or physiological propensity at birth, which necessarily makes him or her a Satanist?

I can understand the notion that the individual is a blank slate upon which experience writes, but beyond this: is there a core human nature, or rather a core Satanic human nature?

It is interesting to note that many people will subscribe to religious worldviews and belief systems and as a result you have Christianís, Buddhists, and Muslims etc.

There seems to me to be a basic innate mental process taking place when belief systems are introduced to the individual. The individual will state - yes I accept this and will follow it, or, no I do not accept this and refuse to follow it.

Or, the individual will state Ė yes I need to be a part of this and need to be with others, or, I donít want to be a part of this and donít want to be with others.

Why this innate mental process? I donít know. It seems to be the difference between being a sheep or being a wolf at some level.

If a belief system is accepted than experience seems to reinforce the belief system and the belief system is used to frame and interpret experience.

If the belief system is not accepted or loses credibility than the individual may perceive themself as an outsider or a fringe dweller until some other belief system is installed.

Where is the Satanist in all this? He or she has had to adopt Satanism because it was the only thing left over and which actually made sense, once reason had torn all belief systems apart.

Some people just refuse to accept anything without good reason. This is robust and healthy in my view.

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#36345 - 03/13/10 10:15 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Atralux Lucis]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
The primal force that is within mankind has always exsisted. Some people are born with more than others. If you look into wildlife you will see the same thing. Some animals adapt to life better than others. Mankind invented alot of concepts religion, science and technology. But if all these things were taking away only True Satanists would be able to survive. We have the will to do so. La vey simply labeled it so likeminded people could interact with each other.
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#36349 - 03/13/10 10:37 PM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Vlad Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 21
Loc: Virginia
I believe that Satanists are born and not made.

"Satanism" is just a name and a symbol attached to a manner of living that has existed for as long as human kind. There were Satanists before the notion of "Satanism" was ever conceived. Satanism has simply allowed us to give it a name and to identify ourselves for what we are. I don't want to say personality type, as I don't want to confuse it with some kind of Myers-Brigg type of thing, but Satanists are simply a different breed. A cut above the rest that knows this and uses it to their advantage.

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#36376 - 03/14/10 05:04 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: exadust]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3110
 Quote:
The primal force that is within mankind has always exsisted. Some people are born with more than others. If you look into wildlife you will see the same thing.

What you actually state here is that a random person compared with another has varying degrees of primal force in his/her mind/body?
The primal force is existant in every human being, the sole difference is the mindset to acknowledge it.

 Quote:
Mankind invented alot of concepts religion, science and technology. But if all these things were taking away only True Satanists would be able to survive.

Apart from the disagreement of "inventing technology and science", these 3 are the main intellectual "weapons" of a Satanist.

On another note:
1)What are true Satanists anyway?
2) It's LaVey not La vey.
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#36384 - 03/14/10 08:59 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
So what your are saying that if we didn't have religion,science and technology Satanist's wouldn't have weapons.Interesting.

No disrespect intended to LaVey I didn't preview that post before I submitted it.
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Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36387 - 03/14/10 09:53 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: exadust]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3110
 Quote:
So what your are saying that if we didn't have religion,science and technology Satanist's wouldn't have weapons.Interesting.

No, it simply implies Satanism wouldn't exist at all.
Religion is a concept used to describe all the different philosophies and theisms with 1 term. The lack of religion would result in non-confrontational ideas and views wich make life so interesting. Satanism also falls within the description of religion (being it a philosophical way of living).

Abolishment of science for the Satanist would result in stagnation on intellectual level and would reduce his/her capabilities to those of faith and belief.

Abolishment of technology is equal on living like bacteria.
Say bye bye to fork and knife and eat with your hands(forks, knives, spoons or any other aiding thing is considered technology).

Abolishment of these three concepts would result for a human getting shot back to the prehistory (and perhaps further).
Satanism is acknowledging mans carnal nature, it does not imply embracing it fully and start living as prehistoric beings.


Edited by Dimitri (03/14/10 09:54 AM)
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#36388 - 03/14/10 10:02 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
My meaning is that at this point in time if some global catastrophe wiped out technology and science that Satanists would be the main survivors. Because people rely on them for everything.

It is true that science helped label Satanism but the fact is that man has always been carnal and no amount of technology or scientific experiments will change that.
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Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36390 - 03/14/10 10:18 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: exadust]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3110
 Quote:

My meaning is that at this point in time if some global catastrophe wiped out technology and science that Satanists would be the main survivors.

"if some global catastrophe"? Puh-lease..
Technology and science are things that can't be wiped out unless certain knowledge is being lost. But before knowledge is being lost, it will take several years/decades. Most of the time it is too less of a time to forget everything.

I imagine that if by some mysterious force everything we have of technology would disappear, but not the know-how, mankind can restore itself in less then 5 years.


Perhaps you should slow down a bit, THINK before you write! You are tossing in statements which aren't very well thought about.


Edited by Dimitri (03/14/10 10:19 AM)
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#36393 - 03/14/10 10:34 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
If by chance you have read all of my post's you will see that I observe people's reaction's whether it is something I say or puncuation marks I use. I can see the type of person you are by your response. Being a Satanist is also about the shock value, and that comes in different degrees.

Manipulation has many sides you don't have to be infront of someone to manipulate them.
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Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36394 - 03/14/10 10:35 AM Re: Born a Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Survivalism differs from Satanism; the latter is a personal philosophy and the former is the means to continue physical existence regardless of one's environment. Individual Satanists may well have the intellectual capacity to create solutions to minimize danger but anyone reliant on medical technology to stay alive would obviously perish quite quickly, Satanist or not.
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