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#37115 - 03/29/10 01:38 PM Management
MorningStar93 Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Ecotopia

A Hermit in the A.'.A.'. must devote his soul to guiding humanity with wisdom. He must make his earthly vehicle a weapon in the hands of higher principles. I haven't formally taken any oaths but that's the road for me.

I'm kinda new when it comes to management but you have to start somewhere. The basics can be picked up in a book but you need to go out in the world to learn real people skills.

Now to my question:
Which leadership style do you think is better between "being everyone’s friend" and "management by fear"? Does it depend on the job that needs to be done?

Maybe I have to re-evaluate my approach. I have had this strategy to be "everyone’s friend" but sometimes it's more complicated than that.


MorningStar93

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#37116 - 03/29/10 02:52 PM Re: Management [Re: MorningStar93]
Chandler Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 36
I would question why I should be trying to guide other people at all. Will this actually benefit anybody? What sort of guidance will I have to offer, and in what cases would it actually be appropriate?

If you want to lead, I would suggest that you apply sympathy and fear both conservatively and only where appropriate, i.e. where you have some expertise.

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#37118 - 03/29/10 03:25 PM Re: Management [Re: MorningStar93]
CanisMajor Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: MorningStar93

Now to my question:
Which leadership style do you think is better between "being everyone’s friend" and "management by fear"? Does it depend on the job that needs to be done?


I think the distinction should be made between 'fear' and 'respect'.

Fear is much easier to evoke than respect. Fear is reactionary,whereas respect is earned. Because you are "liked" does not mean you will necessarily garner respect.

Being "everybodys friend" is not advisable if you are in management.

"Aren't you worried about being late again?"

"Nah,dude. Morningstar is 'cool' like that!"


Edited by CanisMajor (03/29/10 03:32 PM)
Edit Reason: dumkopf
_________________________
For every complex problem,there is a solution that is simple,neat,and wrong.
H.L Mencken

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#37119 - 03/29/10 05:00 PM Re: Management [Re: MorningStar93]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Funny thing is if you have to ask strangers on the Internet, maybe you are not cut out for the job. Management by fear will turn bad as soon as you expose a weakness, as those you manage will be looking for a way to take you out. Management by respect is the only true way to go… Any good employer would train you for a management position, as I would imagine any church, club or order worth any time would as well.

This is assuming you’re not taking on the task of managing people who are not asking to be managed (humanity in general). If that’s the case then I can only wish you good luck with that.

Know your place…

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#37120 - 03/29/10 06:08 PM Re: Management [Re: ta2zz]
Noctuary Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/01/10
Posts: 92
I've been in management for about 18 years. Being everyone's friend or leading by fear are not your only choices. You are not there to be their friend. And you are not there to be their terrorizer. You are there to be their leader. Be fair and treat others fairly. Make sure everyone knows what is expected from them and then expect it.
_________________________
Devils speak of the way in which she'll manifest

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#37140 - 03/30/10 02:08 PM Re: Management [Re: ta2zz]
MorningStar93 Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Ecotopia
One of the greatest shows around is Hell's Kitchen with Chef Gordon Ramsay. His Scorpionic sting has powerful transformative energies and he provokes crisis’s where people are pushed over their limit to reach bottom. He then fixes all links and builds everything back up again.

 Originally Posted By: CanisMajor
Being "everybodys friend" is not advisable if you are in management.

I could never work at a workplace where I had no friends and no one liked me. I'm not afraid of the cold though. Siding with the wrong people can also be crappy.

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
Management by respect is the only true way to go…

What you want to achieve with being a good leader is that, if you take a restaurant as example, when you come to the workplace everyone start cleaning up to make everything look good. You take an inspection tour and find that there is pee on the toilet seat. What do you do? You talk to the one responsible for keeping the toilets clean. Now you must ride that horse and say the right thing or the toilet will be dirty again and again.


A somewhat related song lyrics is Black Sabbaths "The Wizard":

"Evil power disappears
Demons worry when the wizard is near
He turns tears into joy
Everyone's happy when the wizard walks by"

The law of attraction....

MorningStar93

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#37142 - 03/30/10 03:39 PM Re: Management [Re: MorningStar93]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Honestly, depending on the business, different kinds of managements skills/styles combos are necessary.

You can't lead by fear, friendship, ignorance, or by yelling and breaking people down. You have to look at the job that needs to be done, and decide what is the best way to do it.

How you lead in the military is different than how you lead in a flower shop. For one you want people dead, for the other you want people to smile.

A good manager is flexible, and adaptable to whatever situation may occur.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#37161 - 03/30/10 11:55 PM Re: Management [Re: MorningStar93]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

To find piss on a seat once can be excused the employee responsible for the cleaning taught what needs to be done differently. If it then starts to happen regularly then it is a problem that needs to be dealt with.

What Morgan says about being adaptable is very true. I will add a good business is run on a script not much different than a movie. Know the script and your lines and become a good actor, improvise when necessary. I can’t see how the military is much different. The military of course would be on a stricter script, as there is loss of life at stake.

We cannot forget the chain of command as well, will you have an assistant manager?

Employees that are happy and respect their employer and their job will clean things on schedule not only because they know you are showing up. Of course spot inspections and secret shoppers in store and on the phone are key to knowing your business is being run the way to want it to. If you are already at the point people only clean when you are coming, I fear the employees are running the business not the owner or manager. If the owner didn’t fully teach the manager his ways then it’s the owners fault but if the manager knows the way the owner wants the business run and allows it to be run in a different manner then only he is to blame.

I was sure Morgan, Fist or M.T. was going to say something about Crowley and management, I was sure I was going to be left feeling ignorant on something I missed here.

 Originally Posted By: MorningStar93
A somewhat related song lyrics is Black Sabbaths "The Wizard":

"Evil power disappears
Demons worry when the wizard is near
He turns tears into joy
Everyone's happy when the wizard walks by"

The law of attraction....

Am I missing something here? I hold little belief in the law of attraction, beyond the laws of adhesion and cohesion.

“to walk through the world by ones self, you cant be
Protected... your trust is in whiskey and weed and
Black Sabbath - its goddamn electric
(chorus)
Don’t waste your time, embrace it
And then you’ll know yourself
The change in you is goddamn electric” ~ Pantera “Goddamn Electric”

In an electric model, magnetism plays a very important role. The laws of magnetism show opposites attract while like actually repels.

Get it?

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#37168 - 03/31/10 02:40 AM Re: Management [Re: MorningStar93]
XiaoGui17 Offline
active member


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 1138
Loc: Amarillo, TX
I think it depends partly on the job that needs to be done and partly on the temperament of the employees. Some people respond well to rewards and will work harder with positive feedback. Some people have to be pushed to get going. I think both should be used, contingent on the performance of the underlings. Employers or managers who treat everyone the same (mean or nice) regardless of performance get worse results because their workers quickly figure out their behavior doesn't make a difference. Thus, they have no incentive to make an effort.

I'd say that the most important aspect of management is competence in the pertinent field. A manager that doesn't know what he's doing will not only mess up operations with their own errors, but will lose the respect of those working under him. When workers know that their manager knows what he's talking about, their respect translates to a desire to please and value of his opinion. Thus simple things such as praise (reward) or a stern verbal correction (punishment), which are free and easy to give, have much greater clout.
_________________________
Wir halten uns an Regeln, Wenn man uns regeln lässt

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#37180 - 03/31/10 11:01 AM Re: Management [Re: XiaoGui17]
CanisMajor Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
Theodore Roosevelt: "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."

My interpretation: In most affairs,it is of importance to be respectful,congenial,and even empathetic. However; if one makes the foolhardy error of demeaning your "kindness", you crush them with the might of Thor's Hammer.

Not quite Sun Tsu,but you get the drift.
_________________________
For every complex problem,there is a solution that is simple,neat,and wrong.
H.L Mencken

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#37265 - 04/02/10 08:12 AM Re: Management [Re: MorningStar93]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
Which leadership style do you think is better between "being everyone’s friend" and "management by fear"? Does it depend on the job that needs to be done?

If you start asking yourself such questions, perhaps managment and leading functions are simply not your piece of the cake.

When it comes to management you do not have the options of "management by fear" or "being everyone's friend". Both are extreme situations with more negative results then positive (on both long and short-term).
A succesfull leader/manager needs to understand and practice 2 concepts. The first one is anticipation, the art of making deals and to anticipate with other actions/persons/situations. You have to know WHAT you are doing, you have to know WHY you are doing it and how you are doing it (and with whom).

The anticipation is closely related with the second concept in management: know-how!
This aspect implies YOU having the necessary knowledge of the skills, personalia, combination of the different personalia for best results and general needed approach towards every individual personalia. It implies you having to know with whom you work with or the persons you want to work together with to obtain the best results (keeping social, economical and various other factors in mind which should all be weighed off).
You sometimes have to make hard descisions and let go of very skilled people whom are a nuiscance to others if you want to maintain a healthy sfere.

Management is hard if you are not a natural born leader. And, to be honest, I think you aren't one because you have to ask for guidance concerning this issue.

A last piece of advice; when you are profilating yourself as a leader don't even try to come across as elitistic and cut yourself off from your "employees"/ followers. Instead be with them, stay amidst them, talk with them.. After all you are but a human yourself, and it will only provide more chances to enhance the know-how and bounds between you and the others.


Edited by Dimitri (04/02/10 08:25 AM)
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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