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#3803 - 02/03/08 03:25 AM whats your opinion on the war?
markus Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 5
Loc: iraq (for now)
i was just curious to know what kind of opinion someone else might have on the war in iraq?
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#3805 - 02/03/08 09:02 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: markus]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I don't really have an opinion on it. Like it or not, we are at war. The history of warfare shows that wars end when one side wins. Iraq is not a war, it is just a battlefield in a much larger war. Leaving Iraq will not end the war.

All the same, what is your opinion? Given that you are serving there, I would think your opinion would be more relevant.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#3806 - 02/03/08 11:57 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
markus Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/30/08
Posts: 5
Loc: iraq (for now)
My opinion is that you cant help people who cant help themselves, since that is what we are supposedly here to do its pointless.
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#3808 - 02/03/08 12:21 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: markus]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
My opinion is, that we went in there, either our government had false information about weapons of mass destruction, or they misled us, misinformation, making us believe that Sadam was a real threat.

When the government realized that it made a mistake, it attempted everything to try to justify us being there. We are there to get a bad man. Kind of attitude.

Well, we got the bad man, yet we are still there, because it would make us look bad, if we left that shit hole, without cleaning up the mess that we created.

So, now we are stuck in that shit hole of a country, attempting to bring order to a people, who either do not want demorcarcy, order, and civility, or as the general population goes, are too afraid to help themselves get it.

Either way, its a losing situation for us. We are getting thousands of our young people killed over there, while spending Billions of dollars.
Meanwhile, our own economy is turned to shit, people around the world have finally realized that our dollar is worth about five cents (which it costs to print it) and not much more, so other countries our opting for other investments.

Its a good thing that our president has a direct line to god, who tells him what to do, or we would be really, really fucked.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#3810 - 02/03/08 01:12 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Asmedious]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
I believe that President Bush went to war in IRAQ to try to take control of the oil. Hes a man driven by oil but yet he wont admit it. They wanted the American people to think that Saddam had WMD's so he could go to war, they tried to say Iraq was the ones responsible for the 9/11 attacks when it was plain that Osama Bin Laden was.

They knew who it was but they didn't want to go after the real people because the ones that attacked us didn't have the oil Bush wanted to go after.

Bush thought he could go in and take over Iraq with hardly any effect due to his false claims that American armed forces are the strongest, but what he didn't count on was that Bin Laden was just as strong. So Bush's overnight war has turned into many years in IRAQ and many lives lost and Billions of dollars in debt.

Bush is and will be the worst President or any kind of leader for a very very long time. Id like to know what Jack Asses voted for Bush in the first place.

The Jerk off ran 2 oil companies that he was CEO of into Bankrupt, so what made these idiots who voted for him think that he could control the economy or OUR country?

Hopefully someone will come into office and take control of our own country, and our own people and stop worrying about the starving people in other countries and start feeding the starving ones in our own country.

Look at the homeless rate of the American people not considering all the ones that are losing there homes to foreclosures. The Government doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that we have starving people in our own backyard. Hell look how are Government treated the people in New Orleans. If that doesn't show you that the special interests are for foreigners then for the American people.

Look at how many illegals that come here from Mexico are taking care of, hell they get free health insurance,pay no taxes and our Government is wanting to give them legal citizenship with only a small fine. When the rest of us are paying out the ass in taxes and can never get ahead.

Theres just so much shit that went wrong after Bush took office and hes screwed it up so bad it will take 20 years to get it straightned out if were lucky.

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#3816 - 02/03/08 02:04 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: markus]
Sven Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/19/08
Posts: 46
I think if we HAD to go to war Bush is probably the worst person to lead anyone into any war and now the cowboy obsessed president has created alot more problems for us then we started off.

Plus with this war we've gotten ourself involved in religious problems that has gone on for ages and you cannot be the "moderator" in religious wars, your either good or bad. I am interested to see which of our president hopefulls will actual try to pull us out of the war and how long it will take. As for the war right now we are in it and our "man of god" president's term is coming to a happy end. So Ammeracins have hope on the horizon. (I think that's how it would be spelled according Mr. Bush)


Yay, God bless us as we do his work killing thousands!

Its amazing what people will do, and let happen, for a so called "all loving god"


Edited by Sven (02/03/08 02:07 PM)
_________________________
A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others!
Marquis de Sade

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#3936 - 02/07/08 08:39 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
So where is this cache of oil everyone keeps claiming this war was really over? Why has the price of gas been going up month after month? Remember a few years ago when it was only $1.50? I ran nothing less than 93 octane in my mustang and it still cost me less then to fill it up than it does today to fill up my daily driver.

Bin Laden isn't a mighty force over there. It's the unknown enemy. You can't fight an enemy when you don't know how it is. Is that little girl on the corner with the backpack on her way to school, or is it packed with explosives waiting for our troops to approach and detonate? Wouldn't that make a great headline? "American troops kill 13 year old girl on way to school". It's the bombs on the side of the road being exploded remoted by cell phone as we pass. It's the "freedom fighters" from other countries being recruited and trained elsewhere coming in to make sure Iraq does not become influenced by the American swine.

The foreclosures are not a result of any government policy. They are the result of greedy bankers and CEOs looking to push their bottom line higher. They created the bogus and manipulative mortgages to qualify those that wouldn't otherwise qualify for a house. They lowered the income rate to put someone into a $500,000 house that was really only worth about $350,000 at best, knowing that that family could not afford it. It's was the American public that saw instant money. Knowing they could buy a house, do nothing to it but sit in it for a few months, and turn around and sell it within a week for a substantial profit. I was house shopping during the housing boom. I would be walking through a house and thinking about an offer, and it would have been already sold. Houses lasted a week on the market. I was smart and didn't buy some overpriced shithole with some wacky mortgage. I did it the right way, by being patient, researching, and insisting on a standard fixed rate mortgage. The way our parents did it.

"Bush is and will be the worst President or any kind of leader for a very very long time."

Recent history would suggest Nixon and Ford would hold claim to that title. That's a very broad brush you painted that statement with. I could name 20 leaders within the last 20 years whose record make Bush look like a saintly genius. If Hillary is elected President, wait and see what the next 10 years brings. I believe you will be dusting off some old "re-elect Bush" bumper stickers from 3 years ago.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#3953 - 02/08/08 10:14 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: fakepropht]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
The cache of Oil is still sitting over in Iraq being stock piled. Why do you think that this lame duck president wants to stay over in Iraq and help rebuild the place. It's because hes making a behind closed door deals with the Iraqi's with there oil.
Look how many times Bush said that the Iraqi Government was going to pay for the war for our troops to be over there helping them while at war? And I haven't seen any money toward the war at all.

Bush didn't go to war in Iraq to take on the taliban who was responsible for 9/11 but he did use the 9/11 tragedy to go after Saddam who didn't have anything to do with the war.

Bush has spent Trillions to fund the war in Iraq and is borrowing money each and every day from China to keep the war going...
America and China are the two biggest countries that relies on foreign oil and its odd that America has been there fighting and China is more then eager to lend U.S money. There both interested in keeping this war going and thats so they can claim all of the oil.
Bush is an oil tycoon and he was a CEO of two oil companies that he drove into bankrupt with mis management and over spending and that opened up the doors for more foreign oil to be brought in.

Bush and his goon squad have made billions themselves off of this war, Chaney had two of his companies over in IRAQ. Haliburton and Black water, And didn't have a contract bid to get the jobs they were hand picked to go over there by Bush & Chaney.

Look at how bad this war has been handled, not only the out of hand spending but the disappearance of billions in cash that the accountants cannot find anywhere and the Bush Admin will not answer on where the money is. They claimed money was spent on new equipment for the troops and we found out the troops had old ass equipment and trucks from the 1980's hell they even sent troops into battle with no armor because they didn't get the money that was sent over there for them.

Id like for you to tell me of another President who is as bad as this Prick is. What other president came into office with a surplus and within 2 years spent all that money and now is in the trillions in debt. Not only that but he is still going to be racking up the debt for 10 more months... Bush is planning on staying in Iraq for many years to come no matter what the cost is to the American people. Its already stated at this point in time every kid being born is coming into the world with over $30,000 in debt due to this president's over spending...
Nixon and Ford was saints compared to the turmoil Bush has brought to the table.
Bush has lied, he used illegal wire taps on the American people, hes stole money, he put all his buddies in office to save his own ass. He hand selected the new Supreme Court Lawyers so he could get away with all the bad things hes done. He gave his good friend scooter libby a free pass out of jail and a clean record for not ratting him out.

What other president was in office to where oil companies have made profits of over 40 billion??????????
Oil companies have made more profits since Bush has been in office then with all the other Presidents combined....



Well to the Housing question, the Government could step in and do something about all the greedy mortgage lenders but they were collecting a lot of tax revenue off of the Greedy brokers and they didn't want to do anything about it and that was to keep funding this ridiculous war. So in a big way they too are responsible for the housing market crash.

You don't see the people who got FHA or any other Government home loan that are going into foreclosures do you? Thats because they control they way the money is handled. What needs to happen is stop allowing private companies to step in and lend money and make such huge profits off of it.

The way the president has allowed big business to run has been like legalized extortion. I know when president Clinton was in office everyone had money in there pockets and business were all doing good and keeping jobs in America. Since Bush everything has went to hell in a handbag. Go around and look at how many jobs has left to go overseas. Look how many people lost there jobs to foreign workers. Don't sit on your ass and watch TV to see whats really going on, go on a road trip cross country and talk to the people thats been effected and see first hand how fucked up Bush has ruined this country.
I own 3 businesses and I see first hand how bad is got over the past several years. People just don't have the money they used to have thanks to Bush's heavy spending and allowing oil companies to make huge billions in profit. Bush has brought this country into a depression even though he won't admit it, but the people in the real world and not the ones on TV saying only what there told to say, knows that its been in a depression and the worst is yet to come.

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#3995 - 02/09/08 11:16 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Man, at his core, is a selfish opportunists. Never look for grand conspiracies when simple incompetence, fear, basic human nature, and self righteous do-gooderism can easily explain the situation. All parties involved are trying to advance their own agenda. The war is out of the control of any one person or group. It's like a riot where all of the looters are just trying to get their little cut before peace is restored. There is no 'good' side or 'bad' side. For better or for worse it is only 'us' and 'them' as it has always been in the entire history of armed conflict.

The nature of conflict is to force people to take sides. The only real question is 'are you with us or against us?'

When walking down the street in 130 degree heat wearing 80lbs of kit surrounded be people who would like to see you dead, I personally have no problem knowing who's side I am on and what I am doing there.

Maybe it's a matter of perspective?

Check your perspective and get back to me....
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#3997 - 02/09/08 11:45 AM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Well I for one would not be willing to go into war to fight for this President and I bet 99% of the troops doesn't like being there. The troops were sold on a false war, the were told that Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction and was going to try to use them on us. All of that information turned out to be B.S.

I have several friends who went to fight in IRAQ and none of them agrees with this war and there NOT allowed to express there real opinions about the war and about the President...

If they come out and say what they really think they will be court Marshalled. Hell most of the troops don't even know what there even fighting for. One of my friends told us the war was never in the U.S control and the way it's been going it never will be under control.

I don't think we should have went to war with IRAQ because there was no reason for it. IRAQ was never a threat to us except they had a huge amount of oil that greedy ass George Bush wants to get his hands on at any cost.
Hes cost a many troops there lives and so many are coming back home with missing arms,legs, and where the hell is our Government for them.

The Government is trying to squeeze there way out of not taking care of the troops, who wouldn't need to be taking care of if not sent to a false war in the first place. I have a friend who lost both legs in the war a couple years ago and his still fighting to get money from the Government to help take care of him since his lost his legs for this country over this war.

I say this to all who agree with the war, How about you take your asses over there and help do the fighting because "standing behind the troops" to show your support of the war isn't doing shit for the men and women who are dying and loosing there limbs everyday.

It will hit you then that you might give up your life fighting for a false cause and know that the Government is only behind you when your on the front line and when you get hurt they will throw you off to the side like a piece of meat.

The side that I'm on is to not let our men and women get killed for nothing.

Ask yourself if you would give up your life to make Bush and his buddies RICHER and then not have your family taking care of after your gone or worse, have your legs blown off and they ship you off to a moldy sewer of a shit hole Veterans Hospital and forget about you because that is the REAL LIFE of this war.............

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#4001 - 02/09/08 02:22 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Perhaps you don't know my resume?

I volunteered to go to Iraq. The Army had other ideas and sent me to the 'little war' in Afghanistan.

We have an all volunteer force. No one is forced to be here. At the end of your contract you are free to leave. This war has been going on for almost 7 years. Any new kid entering service has grown up with this war. I hope no one has any illusions. All the same, most soldiers in Iraq never fight anyone. Few leave the safety of the Green Zone. Their service, while necessary is really more like a civil service job than what most people think war must be like. The whole PTSD thing is wildly overblown by the media who is desirous to make every vet seem like he is messed up.

Our society is not set up to venerate warriors and does not understand how to deal with them. It is not the soldier who is sick, it is society. If I could do things my way we would have a warrior cult more like the Samurai or Knights Templar. A force of true warriors who live for war and disdain the idleness of peace.

And oh... if only we really were fighting this war the way it needs to be fought - think violence on biblical scale!

You see, Iraq is only a front on a larger war with Fundamentalist Islam. This war will look more like the Cold War. It will be a multi-generational war. What we really need is Final Solution to the Muslim Problem.

Now go back to your couch, open a bag of chips, turn on CNN and continue to be a spectator. Just get out of the way and let the adults save Western Civilization...
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#4002 - 02/09/08 02:36 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
From your resume I can see you never went to battle in IRAQ!!! I don't go by whats on TV or by what the Government tries to sell the American people about whats going on, because all they do is give false information about whats really going on.

I have went with my friend to the Veterans Hospital to where he goes for physical therapy and I have seen, heard and spoke to the young kids who had there legs,arms, and parts of there face blown off.

I don't need to go by whats reported on TV because I spent many hours with friends and people who were injured in the war to know what really went on and what they think about the war.

And if your so concerned about winning the war then why don't you sign up to go to war and not just "volunteer" then maybe you might get shipped to a real war instead sent to the safe haven over in Afghanistan were you sit and play cards all day while the real soldiers are getting mauled.

What right is it for the U.S. to be there fighting and trying to help the IRAQ people anyway? Why isn't any other country standing in line to send there troops over there to fight. China is willing to lend the U.S trillions of dollars but there not sending any of there troops over there to fight. It seems every other country knows this is a lost cause except George Bush and the RETARDS who follow him with his stay the course at all cost mentality.....

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#4003 - 02/09/08 02:42 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Don't worry about what you see on TV and how bad you think they blow it out of proportion. Go around to the Veteran's Hospitals and talk to the people who have the wounds to prove whats going on with the war. I can tell you TV isn't going to bring to light whats really going on because the Government puts a stop to the real shit thats going on.

They don't want everyone to know the truths and consequences of this false war.... They want it to look like we have control and we have the Taliban on the run. But if the U.S armed forces had things under control then we wouldn't be going into the 8th year of war that was said to be only a few months old.....

Why should kids who are now being born come into this world already $30,000 in debt???? What do you think this war has accomplished besides being trillions in debt and lost of lives to thousands?

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#4010 - 02/09/08 05:50 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Noc]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Oh brother...

Ok, for the record, since you don't know, I joined the Army in 1988 and my first unit was the 82nd Airborne. I served in the first Gulf War in 91 (that was in Iraq by the way). I have served in a few other third world shit holes under Clinton, most notably, Hati and Bosnia. Believe it or not the Army sends you where they think they need you - not where you want to go. This ain't BK and you don't get it your way.

All the same, what do you know about Afghanistan? You must have access to better info than I do. Since I am near Ft. Meade maybe I can come visit you at the NSA? Even a simple search of Google News will show that things have not been going well in Afghanistan. 2006 (the year I was there) was the bloodiest year on record since the initial invasion. But of course you knew that. Sadly, most Americans are horribly misinformed and when Afghanistan and Pakistan really start to unravel it will seem like a bolt out of the blue.

If you are so worried about this war being in it's 8th year then why don't you and people like you get out of the way and let us win it. Don't question our methods. Don't be outraged. Attila the Hun had the place on lock down in 20 minutes plus commercials and the Huns ruled it for 200 years. Hell, this is the longest stable govt Afghanistan ever had. Of course, our, or should I say 'your' Judeo-Christian beliefs would not permit that sort of thing. And again, you are missing the point, Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, and NYC are merely battle grounds in a larger war. We are at war with Fundamentalist Islam. Why is that so hard to understand?

Yes, no shit, you might face death or dismemberment in war. Well, golly gee when did this start happening? To the great credit of the American fighting man, the last thing he wants is to be a martyr on TV doing the 'poor pitiful me' shtick. In general we are Stoics and we know when we are getting played. The media has pretty much stopped interviewing vets because the vast majority of vets are not giving them the narrative that the media wants told. Most vets have an attitude of 'adapt and overcome' because your average vet is not a whinny quitter. Your average vet can't stand the 'Hajis' and has no tolerance for Islam and it's nonsense. The PC media does not want to an interview with a guy who will basically say "fuck 'em, shoot 'em in the face."

The worst thing we can do it to tell these guys that they are messed up. The more they hear that, the more likely they are to start believing it. Read "On Killing" by Dave Grossman. What these vets need are acceptance and admiration. Not some crap about how the 'govt messed you up, man' and 'you got sold out, man.' That was what fucked up the Viet Nam vets. So fuck you hippy!

Let me make it clear for you. It is ok to hate. It is ok to kill. In war, you are not fighting for God or country or apple pie or any of that other bullshit. You are fighting for the guy on the left and right of you and don't give them anything less.

Now, print this page, take to the VA hospital and ask some real vets of this current war what they think.

Now que the music....
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#4015 - 02/09/08 07:18 PM Re: whats your opinion on the war? [Re: Fist]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Desert Storm was started by Bush Sr to try to take control of the oil flow from Saddam and that war was a failure and now Bush Jr is trying to follow in his dads footsteps and has messed up miserably and at the cost of trillions in debt.

And we still have people like you to stay the course, keep racking up the debt and why the hell not you won't be paying for it. The kids who are being born now will have that burden to carry.

The first Iraqi war wasn't as bad as this war mainly due to all the air strikes and chemical warfare. I had friends who fought in that war and a couple are back for the second IRAQ war. And they say they would prefer to be back fighting in Desert Storm because there was less likely of taking a hit.

This war there looking over there shoulder everywhere they go and worrying is the next person they encounter isn't strapped with a bomb. They say they were told this war was going to be an in and out mission and it should be under control in 3-6 months. Well its been almost 8 years later and it hasn't been under control yet.


If I printed this page and took it to the VETS they would want to bring it to you and shove it up your ass

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